New Necro Cominng into WvW; power or condi for roaming?

[KrHome.1920]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJw2YcMPWJecXltfA-zVZYDBLG2RUDlRcVQnpgJXigsHeLANDA-w here's a build I've had success with. Right now the armor and weapons are exotic, but I still crit cap, especially in shroud. Thanks to the putrid defense and corrupter's fervor not having an icd, I can stack lots of toughness and power. That combined with unyielding blast and reapers onslaught, I can easily stack vulnerability. Decimate defences and death perception ensure I land a critical hit every time. I use my utilities mostly for building life force, though I will switch to greatsword to quickly get some carapace stacks in close quarters, and spam gavedigger on bosses once they're below half health.

- Why the useless bleed sigils? For god's sake put energy or cleansing sigils or anything other than earth in these slots.

- Why the useless putrid defense? You are not picking an extremely valueable condi cleanse trait. Picking shrouded removal is a no-brainer!

- Why the useless unyielding blast? You are not picking one of the best necro traits. Picking speed of shadows is a no-brainer!

 

(I get your intention: unyielding blast, putrid defense + soul spiral and the sigils are ment to stack carapace. The thing is, it isn't worth the trade-offs. In general death magic reaper is subpar outside of zerging, because the trade-offs the carapace mechanic requires to work solo or in smallscale are too big.)

 

Trade-offs: your build will be destroyed by any soft cc or condi build. Fight someone like me and you will experience a total cc shutdown and you won't land one single hit in shroud. Change the things I mentioned and the build becomes five times as good as it is now.

[archmagus.7249]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAEd3lJw2YcMPWJecXltfA-zVZYDBLG2RUDlRcVQnpgJXigsHeLANDA-w here's a build I've had success with. Right now the armor and weapons are exotic, but I still crit cap, especially in shroud. Thanks to the putrid defense and corrupter's fervor not having an icd, I can stack lots of toughness and power. That combined with unyielding blast and reapers onslaught, I can easily stack vulnerability. Decimate defences and death perception ensure I land a critical hit every time. I use my utilities mostly for building life force, though I will switch to greatsword to quickly get some carapace stacks in close quarters, and spam gavedigger on bosses once they're below half health.

> - Why the useless bleed sigils? For god's sake put energy or cleansing sigils or anything other than earth in these slots.

> - Why the useless putrid defense? You are not picking an extremely valueable condi cleanse trait. Picking shrouded removal is a no-brainer!

> - Why the useless unyielding blast? You are not picking one of the best necro traits. Picking speed of shadows is a no-brainer!

>

> (I get your intention: unyielding blast, putrid defense + soul spiral and the sigils are ment to stack carapace. The thing is, it isn't worth the trade-offs. In general death magic reaper is subpar outside of zerging, because the trade-offs the carapace mechanic requires to work solo or in smallscale are too big.)

>

> Trade-offs: your build will be destroyed by any soft cc or condi build. Fight someone like me and you will experience a total cc shutdown and you won't land one single hit in shroud. Change the things I mentioned and the build becomes five times as good as it is now.

 

Between relentless pursuit and spectral walk, I can handle most condition builds. My favorite is running around a corner, teleporting back behind them, then hitting them with chilled to the bone

 

I chose earth in particular because it has a shockingly low icd of 2s. Hydomancy sigils as well to get some burst damage after leaving shroud. Spectral armor is basically just there as a stun break, and to keep myself in shroud longer during a fight

 

The one problem I have is deadeyes one shot from stealth. Just walking around and all of the sudden you're dead.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lRw0YIMFGJO8O/LPA-zVZYBRI6SMiQIsRBH4h0kCIThQFyAJfBEXIA2AvkH3A-w

> > I'm having a hard time with this build (I'm using exotic armor since they're easier to get than ascended, and using a zerker staff since getting a grieving weapon is a pain.)

> Because it's bad. It's an immobile glass canon.

>

> If you roam on core then you either play

> - condi bunker to have a chance to win some fights (but will be ganked every other minute, because you are slow) or

> - power bunker to make your target fall asleep (because you can sustain lots of 1v1s forever) and then after 150 seconds kill it with lich.

>

> Sometimes I think anet's balancing strategy for core necro is be a punching bag for 150 seconds and then use lich.

>

> Even the build in the link would move from "trash tier" to "can kill some targets by surprise tier" by just changing the elite from plaguelands to lich.

>

 

Although I agree with the general point you're making, I just want to say from many years of experience that it isn't mandatory to play something super tanky. If you're new to Necro like OP then yeah, I think something more durable would be a good idea, and for most players it will make their lives a lot easier because it's less demanding.

 

That said, I have _lots_ of success as a full zerk core Necro. Although I am heavily reliant on Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm, as well as having good terrain to abuse, I very, very rarely feel disadvantaged or even outgunned.

 

This player here has numerous solo roaming videos with core zerk Necro and does quite well. Although I prefer staff over Dagger/Warhorn and use slightly different traits/utilities, this should be a good example of what's possible with said build.

 

I know you're also an experienced Necro so I'm not lecturing you here, I just think a lot of people assume core Necro isn't playable if you don't build super tanky just like what you've said. But full glass core is almost exclusively what I play when solo/small scale and it feels plenty strong to me with only a handful of builds I'll struggle to win against _(basically anything Warrior will shred me, but that's mostly it)._

 

**EDIT**

This is the build I use. I will slot Chill Of Death and Spiteful Spirit depending on the kind of fights I'm dealing with, but in general I like to stack as much damage as I can. I _regularly_ hit people for 8 - 10k Life Blasts and Spinal Shivers. Ghastly Claws going anywhere from 8 - 15k as well and Life Transfer roughly the same. Although I can't do any of this if I have people up in my face, a little terrain and proper kiting make it pretty easy delete people before they can touch me.

[archmagus.7249]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lRw0YIMFGJO8O/LPA-zVZYBRI6SMiQIsRBH4h0kCIThQFyAJfBEXIA2AvkH3A-w

> > > I'm having a hard time with this build (I'm using exotic armor since they're easier to get than ascended, and using a zerker staff since getting a grieving weapon is a pain.)

> > Because it's bad. It's an immobile glass canon.

> >

> > If you roam on core then you either play

> > - condi bunker to have a chance to win some fights (but will be ganked every other minute, because you are slow) or

> > - power bunker to make your target fall asleep (because you can sustain lots of 1v1s forever) and then after 150 seconds kill it with lich.

> >

> > Sometimes I think anet's balancing strategy for core necro is be a punching bag for 150 seconds and then use lich.

> >

> > Even the build in the link would move from "trash tier" to "can kill some targets by surprise tier" by just changing the elite from plaguelands to lich.

> >

>

> Although I agree with the general point you're making, I just want to say from many years of experience that it isn't mandatory to play something super tanky. If you're new to Necro like OP then yeah, I think something more durable would be a good idea, and for most players it will make their lives a lot easier because it's less demanding.

>

> That said, I have _lots_ of success as a full zerk core Necro. Although I am heavily reliant on Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm, as well as having good terrain to abuse, I very, very rarely feel disadvantaged or even outgunned.

>

> This player here has numerous solo roaming videos with core zerk Necro and does quite well. Although I prefer staff over Dagger/Warhorn and use slightly different traits/utilities, this should be a good example of what's possible with said build.

>

> I know you're also an experienced Necro so I'm not lecturing you here, I just think a lot of people assume core Necro isn't playable if you don't build super tanky just like what you've said. But full glass core is almost exclusively what I play when solo/small scale and it feels plenty strong to me with only a handful of builds I'll struggle to win against _(basically anything Warrior will shred me, but that's mostly it)._

>

> **EDIT**

> This is the build I use. I will slot Chill Of Death and Spiteful Spirit depending on the kind of fights I'm dealing with, but in general I like to stack as much damage as I can. I _regularly_ hit people for 8 - 10k Life Blasts and Spinal Shivers. Ghastly Claws going anywhere from 8 - 15k as well and Life Transfer roughly the same. Although I can't do any of this if I have people up in my face, a little terrain and proper kiting make it pretty easy delete people before they can touch me.

 

I like to think that I'm a good roamer, as I made it to 500 and change on engineer (thank you wolfineer). I rarely joined up with a tag, unless they were taking a big objective like a keep or smc. You'd be surprised how many commanders kick roamers from the squad, then lose a keep or smc because they ignored the map/team chat about outer walls down and inner is getting hit with 5 catas.

 

Funny story with flesh wurm. I got stuck in some terrain in the chests after Octovine, and had to use flesh wurm to get myself out.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> That said, I have _lots_ of success as a full zerk core Necro. Although I am heavily reliant on Spectral Walk and Flesh Wurm, as well as having good terrain to abuse, I very, very rarely feel disadvantaged or even outgunned.

>

> This player here has numerous solo roaming videos with core zerk Necro and does quite well. Although I prefer staff over Dagger/Warhorn and use slightly different traits/utilities, this should be a good example of what's possible with said build.

>

> I know you're also an experienced Necro so I'm not lecturing you here, I just think a lot of people assume core Necro isn't playable if you don't build super tanky just like what you've said. But full glass core is almost exclusively what I play when solo/small scale and it feels plenty strong to me with only a handful of builds I'll struggle to win against _(basically anything Warrior will shred me, but that's mostly it)._

>

> **EDIT**

> This is the build I use. I will slot Chill Of Death and Spiteful Spirit depending on the kind of fights I'm dealing with, but in general I like to stack as much damage as I can. I _regularly_ hit people for 8 - 10k Life Blasts and Spinal Shivers. Ghastly Claws going anywhere from 8 - 15k as well and Life Transfer roughly the same. Although I can't do any of this if I have people up in my face, a little terrain and proper kiting make it pretty easy delete people before they can touch me.

I think it also depends a bit on the region you play or even the server tier.

 

**What I encounter is:** Every single ranger these days runs at least 2 immobilize sources and heavy burst shutting core necro down. Nade holo is broken anyway. The few dragon hunters roaming are a hardcounter to glass core too (can destroy you while blocking everything from you for 10 seconds). Warriors (core and also tether spellbreaker) will cc and burst you with ease. Thief will burst you from stealth 2 or 3 times until you run out of resources. Reapers will cc and burst you. What's left? ... condi rev ... too tanky to kill for a glassy core necro before it kills you. For elementalists it depends. They have a huge variety of builds from almost unkillable bunkers to can be oneshot by everyone.

 

Spectral walk and wurm have potential, when you are smart, but nevertheless are too clunky to really surprise experienced encounters. At the end of the day you need other ways of damage mitigation.

 

**Your build:** That's very glassy (can't get much more glassy). Hard to believe that it is viable. I would say no, but like I said it depends a bit what you encounter. The examples above will faceroll that build with their far superior mechanic. Of course the player needs the skill to actually make use of a superior build.

 

You just need to look at what anet did with core necro. They pushed its sustain to absurd levels because they know playing it as a glass canon is not what you should do because the pressure (damage) and mobility isn't there.

 

**Roaming videos:** These are always cherry-picked scenarios. You can make everything look good in wvw. The reality is often different. If I do a compilation of my best wvw moments you might think reaper is the most broken roaming spec in the game (which of course it is not!).

[Yasai.3549]

Condi.

 

Power is still good for Reaper builds but it is significantly more difficult to play than a brain dead Core Condi which just spreads their cheeks and poop out Condi all day.

[archmagus.7249]

How about this condi? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81ZYZDMO2DTiZil001TF-zVZYLRPcFsZYlROpQ3Vg0HiAtHeL8eDA-w

 

And this for power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lRw4YbsO2JOqLaLXA-zVZYNRNbIoQxg8KjYThurATuAiLEAbgXyjbA-w

 

[KrHome.1920]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

> How about this condi? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81ZYZDMO2DTiZil001TF-zVZYLRPcFsZYlROpQ3Vg0HiAtHeL8eDA-w

Please change blood bank to transfusion. And one condi stacking sigil is enough. The second one is a wasted slot. The rest of the build isn't too bad.

 

> And this for power.

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lRw4YbsO2JOqLaLXA-zVZYNRNbIoQxg8KjYThurATuAiLEAbgXyjbA-w

You are focussing on secondary attributes (precision and expertise) here. Don't do that!

 

Aiming for 100% critchance in shroud while having a poor 1700 base power is not good. 2000 base power with 80% crit chance would be much better.

 

Expertise is simply useless on your build.

[archmagus.7249]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"archmagus.7249" said:

> > How about this condi? http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81ZYZDMO2DTiZil001TF-zVZYLRPcFsZYlROpQ3Vg0HiAtHeL8eDA-w

> Please change blood bank to transfusion. And one condi stacking sigil is enough. The second one is a wasted slot. The rest of the build isn't too bad.

 

Why would I change away from blood bank to transfusion when I'm solo roaming? It doesn't affect me. The idea is for the condition damage to proc parasitic contagion, giving near constant healing.

> > And this for power.

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAYd3lRw4YbsO2JOqLaLXA-zVZYNRNbIoQxg8KjYThurATuAiLEAbgXyjbA-w

> You are focussing on secondary attributes (precision and expertise) here. Don't do that!

>

> Aiming for 100% critchance in shroud while having a poor 1700 base power is not good. 2000 base power with 80% crit chance would be much better.

>

> Expertise is simply useless on your build.

 

I'm aiming for boon corrupt and might generation, combined with high ferocity.

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"archmagus.7249" said:

If you are a new, core Necro and want to roam WvW, consider not min-maxing and instead focus on survival in combat. Even if you cannot kill an opponent alone, prolonging the fight helps you learn what works and what does not against different professions. Below are some suggestions but they are not "meta" and can easily be changed.

 

Basic power

Soldier's or Valkyrie

Spite, Death Magic, Soul Reaping

Axe/focus, dagger/war horn

Consume Conditions, Spectral Walk, Spectral Armor, Corrupt Boon, Lich

 

Basic condi

Dire or Carrion

Curses, Death Magic, Soul Reaping

Staff, scepter/dagger

Consume Conditions, corrosive poison cloud, Corrupt boon, Signet of the Locust, plaguelands

 

Meta-builds, discussions and videos are fine if you want to learn how experts play but new Necro's should focus on gaining experience. Expect to die but also learn.