New god of war?

[Doni.3402]

Aurene absorbed some of the energy, too.

And maybe the PC absorbed also a bit of it???

[Erulogos.2591]

> @Doni.3402 said:

> Since Balthaddon was stripped of his powers before entering Tyria it's most likely he was already replaced by another one. So Rytlock is out of the game.

>

> It would be cool if a small part of Balthazar was absorbed by the PC and you start to hear him in your head.

> He tries to take the control of your body and he is strong enough to force you to do things you never would do on your own.

> Every time you speak with Balthazar it seems you speak with yourself and your friends start to think you became insane...

> But in the end Balthazar helps you. You learn first hand why he became "Balthaddon" and what role Menzies played in this Game.

> After helping with Kralkatorrik he is able to leave your body, restore his power and own body and is again Balthazar, the true and only god of war and fire.

>

> Maybe Dhuum is now a part of the six again? ^^

 

The redemption part isn't a bad idea, but having him lurk in your head is pretty similar to something done in another MMO recently (Google search 'SWTOR' and 'Valkorion') so I'd rather they come up with a better way if there is an attempt to redeeming/reviving Balth.

[Torn Fierceslash.6375]

> @Frostwolve.2916 said:

> > @"Torn Fierceslash.6375" said:

> > I like the idea of Rytlock taking the spot as god of war if the PC from GW1 is non cannon. Did PoF mention where he picked up Rurik's sword?

> I lol' d!! A char being a human god and worshipped by humans. Never gonna happen

>

 

I know but it would be irony at its best, since charr hate gods.

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

Prince Rurik tad am, there I said it. B)

[Hesacon.8735]

Aurene can become both an Elder Dragon and god of war,. Both groups tend to horde magic. The Human gods are venturing further into the Mists and away from Tyria and the Elder Dragons are dropping like Green Bay Packer's Quarterbacks.

[Bunny Is Cthulhu.7931]

I well and truly believe the one and only God of War is none other than Lady Wisteria Whiskington.

 

She has proven herself incredibly powerful (she 1-shots you if you don't get out of the circle in time) and with wisdom and restraint, she will not retaliate until she is insulted with water.

 

"Ladies do not start fights but they can finish them."

[Squee.7829]

I think Rytlock, or any Charr, becoming a human God would be pretty awesome. Charr denounce gods, and humans having an ancient racial rival in their pantheon would be a neat plot point. But I have to put my money on the GW1 pc theory (if I had two pick one of the two).

 

We know from GW1 that a God can be removed from a pantheon, but can't be stripped of his power until a new vessel is prepped to take it. Abaddon was beaten and imprisoned, but still was able to use God powers to influence things. When we fought Abaddon, he was still a God, until Kormir took his power. Balthazar, however, appears to have already had his godly powers stripped and needed a bloodstone and a dragon to simulate the power he had before. So it seems likely that Balthazars God powers had to go somewhere. It can't just be floating about in limbo.

 

Although! A possible argument could be that Balthazar was never stripped of his power. Just temporarily weakened by being manhandled by the other gods. Like a body builder getting hit by a car. The car doesn't make the body builder weaker in any permanent sense, but they won't be lifting heavy weights until their bodies recover.

For precedence, Abaddon was imprisoned for hundreds of years before he was able to influence Tyria. (Just over 1000 years to kick off nightfall). The gods never took any of his power, but he had to recharge it over a very long time. Balthazar might similarly still have his power, but is still weakened by whatever the gods did to remove and imprison him. The bloodstone would have been less of a replacement of his old power and more of a catalyst for a speedy recovery.

This makes Kralky our new defacto God of war I guess. All hail Kralkatorik!

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @draxynnic.3719 said:

> > I assumed that Zenmai may have been talking about Kormir, there - we don't have any evidence of the Sunspear Hero having interacted with Zenmai (prior to Guild Wars Beyond), but Kormir canonically did do her travelling around, and may have met Zenmai while she was recruiting.

>

> Zenmai wasn't recruited by Kormir though (only the Zaishen were iirc, from Cantha). In both the original and the second version of her recruitment quest we were the ones to find and recruit her. She was recommended via Linro (originally directly to us, then in the remake quest by missive to the Sunspears). Further, as a hero would have been traveling with the PC not Kormir during Nightfall's campaign.

 

Ah, right. I was getting confused with a certain **other** assassin hero in Winds of Purity. Even so, I don't think that line necessarily means that Zenmai had never met the Winds of Purity PC before: it could be more of a private joke about that being something the Sunspears say.

[CharterforGw.3149]

> @Frostwolve.2916 said:

> > @ekarat.1085 said:

> > It's Kralkatorrik -- how can there be a different successor if Kralkatorric ate all the energy?

> >

> Because it wasn't god energy it was mostly bloodstone energy.

>

> My question is why didn't kralky go back to sleep? Don't the dragons go back to sleep once they have absorbed a lot of magic? Was the magic he absorbed not enough? My theory is he flew north to find a new resting spot and we don't hear from him again.

>

>

 

wasn't it stated that kralkatorrik had gotten more powerful by balthazars death

[draxynnic.3719]

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> > @Frostwolve.2916 said:

> > > @ekarat.1085 said:

> > > It's Kralkatorrik -- how can there be a different successor if Kralkatorric ate all the energy?

> > >

> > Because it wasn't god energy it was mostly bloodstone energy.

> >

> > My question is why didn't kralky go back to sleep? Don't the dragons go back to sleep once they have absorbed a lot of magic? Was the magic he absorbed not enough? My theory is he flew north to find a new resting spot and we don't hear from him again.

> >

> >

>

> wasn't it stated that kralkatorrik had gotten more powerful by balthazars death

 

More broadly, dragons don't go to sleep because they have enough magic.

 

Generally, what causes them to go into hibernation is when they've eaten all the magic they can find. The draining of Primordus and Jormag by Taimi's device seems to have put them to sleep as well, although we don't know how long for, so direct draining also seems to have that effect. Kralkatorrik, though, is probably feeling like he has more food than ever - why would he sleep?

 

(Possibly because he feels threatened - he _has_ come close to being killed twice now. This might, however, explain why he's migrating away from Tyria - he's decided that Tyria is dangerous and he doesn't want any.)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Frostwolve.2916 said:

> > @ekarat.1085 said:

> > It's Kralkatorrik -- how can there be a different successor if Kralkatorric ate all the energy?

> >

> Because it wasn't god energy it was mostly bloodstone energy.

>

> My question is why didn't kralky go back to sleep? Don't the dragons go back to sleep once they have absorbed a lot of magic? Was the magic he absorbed not enough? My theory is he flew north to find a new resting spot and we don't hear from him again.

 

No, normally they go back to sleep when there's no magic left in the world, not when they've absorbed a lot of magic.

 

There's a difference, especially now that there are two fewer Elder Dragons in existence - this means the other four must eat more magic before they fall asleep naturally.

[Rognik.2579]

I've perused through this thread, and I'm highly disappointed that no one dares to suggest the possibility that there is no God of War any more? Remember that when Kormir took over Abaddon's role, she didn't become the God of Lies like he was but the Goddess of Truth, a related but opposite deity. I'm not going to say that there is no replacement at the moment (given how Kormir maintains Balth isn't "one of the Six" any more, rather than side with Rytlock's "one of the Five" statement), but whoever the new sixth is, it doesn't have to fill the exact same role as the predecessor. Now I don't think it's going to be something stupid like a God of Peace in the role (I don't think any pantheon ever has had one of those), but the void could literally be filled by anyone to be anything besides Balthazar.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Rognik.2579 said:

> I've perused through this thread, and I'm highly disappointed that no one dares to suggest the possibility that there is no God of War any more? Remember that when Kormir took over Abaddon's role, she didn't become the God of Lies like he was but the Goddess of Truth, a related but opposite deity.

 

Actually, [Kormir is called](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tormented_Soul) the [goddess of secrets](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Path_of_Fire:_Act_2#Goddess_of_Secrets) a few times, just as Abaddon is. Abaddon was similarly not called god of secrets pre-fall, as then he was related to _wisdom_ more than secrets; he was keeper of secrets, but the god of wisdom. He became god of secrets when he himself was a secret.

 

But both gods are, ultimately, the gods of knowledge. Just because one went towards secrets (hidden knowledge) and truth (non-fictional knowledge) doesn't make them opposite deities. It's two different perspectives of the same thing: knowledge.

 

Furthermore, even if Balthazar's successor doesn't call himself "god of war", that's only technicalities that people here are obviously not interested in debating because it still means _he has a successor_ which is the point of the thread: who is the successor?

 

Whichever view of combat Balthazar's successor takes, he'll still be the god of conflict, combat and, challenge.

[draxynnic.3719]

Kormir's precedent in general is one of looking at the same general concept-space from a different angle, not completely changing the nature of the domain.

 

So, following that precedent, Balthazar's successor - if they have revealed themselves to mortals at all - might present as a god of contests, honour, or protection - still containing war and conflict within their domain, but emphasising nobler and less destructive aspects.

[Squee.7829]

I think it's entirely possible there is no God of War anymore, but not like it was explained above. It's entirely possible Balthazar has no successor at all. Not just a successor under a different name, but just...no successor. It's not entirely unreasonable, seeing as how for 1075 years we had NO God of secrets. At all. He was in a prison with no granted authority over Tyria. And it wasn't until that power was removed from the imprisoned Abaddon that we got a new God of Secrets (or whatever you want to call her). And when that power was removed, Abaddon was completely gone. He wasn't left as a shell, or a fallen, weaker, but still physically existing being like Balthazar was. He was just gone. No more. All of it is in Kormir now.

 

So, what happened with Balthazar then? Was his power really completely taken? If so, when it went somewhere else (as it apparently has to do according to god rules) why was Balthazar still existing? Why was he still able to possess a body in which unimaginable power (bloodstones, and dragons) can reside? I wouldn't be surprised if his power was still in Balthazar, just weakened. Just like what happened to Abaddon. When he was imprisoned, he was not able to immediately break free and cause Nightfall. It took hundreds of years before he could influence Tyria in even the most subtle ways and over 1000 years before he could begin invading it. So it is logically possible that Balthazar was also stripped of his godhood, but not his power, leaving us with no god of war UNTIL that power can leave Balthazar and reside somewhere else.

 

Which, of course, it did. The Elder Dragon ate it. And unless people are willing to worship THAT as their new god of war, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, as of now, there is no god of war. There is no successor to Balthazar. His realm of influence went completely in unexpected directions.

[Weindrasi.3805]

Wait, wait, wait. Am I missing something here? New God of War? Why would there be one at all?

Balthazar is dead, and the other 5 Gods left. Even if someone absorbs his powers (and didn't Kralky do that already??) I hardly think that person would take the role of "God of War"--or any sort of God at all. God-worship is a human thing. So maybe some misguided human would try to become a "new God," but I can only forsee that ending the way Gaheron Baelfire did.

Where did this "New God of War" idea even come from?

[Squee.7829]

I think the idea comes from the fact that, as far as anyone knows, no human god has ever just gone away. It has either been replaced, or locked away until something else can replace it. (i.e. Abaddon never stopped being the god of knowledge/secrets/whatever just because he was chained in another realm. He stopped being god of etc. when Kormir became the new vessel for that power) I think what they're also probably doing is jumping the gun a little and assuming that since Balthazar was stripped of his godhood, he was also stripped of his power, and since that power, as far as we've all been told, has to go SOMEWHERE, the gods must have already lined up a replacement (probably human) for Balthazar. That "god of war" power can't just float around in limbo.

 

But, like you said, Kralky absorbed his power. At least that's my guess. Balthazar was still Balthazar. Still the god of war. Just weakened and not on friendly terms with the rest of the Pantheon. Just as Abaddon was before he was Kormired. And now a dragon has all that "God of war/fire" juju inside of it.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

small note that maybe an idea for the discussion here. What did Balthazar use to ignite sohothin, if he was stripped of his power like kormir said., she first tells stripped of godhood, but later on tells about stripped of power.

 

Did sohothin ignite because it was firegodmagic from balthazar, or was it just magic and sohothin ignited because it transformed that any magic into fire.

[draxynnic.3719]

That's the thing. There may have been no "god of knowledge" as far as Tyria was concerned while Abaddon was locked up, but a God of Knowledge still existed and, in fact, had all of his power.

 

One of the subtleties of the Realm of Torment was that while all of Abaddon's power was still there, the prison restricted his access to it - for instance, his knowledge was in a different place to his mind and body. The weakening of the prison basically allowed him to steadily unlock more of his power, but even when we face him beyond the Gate of Madness, he still only has _access_ to a fraction of his power.

 

Balthaddon.. doesn't have this. From what we saw, he was chained down, but there's no indication that anything was inhibiting his power. Certainly not after the chains were broken. He just... had less power.

 

When it comes to reigniting Sohothin...

 

We have precedent that losing full divine status does not completely rob a god of their power, in Dhuum. Furthermore, demigods that don't hold one of the six core domains still seem to have a fair amount of power. We don't fight Menzies directly, but the Lord of Destruction does not seem like a title you'd give to a pushover. Grenth pre-ascension was the Prince of Ice and Sorrow, which suggests that at the very least he had a strong affinity with ice magic at the time.

 

So, Balthazar, while chained up, is probably still a being with significant fire magic.

 

Another consideration that could be mentioned here, in fact, is... how did Sohothin get quenched in the first place? It's entirely possible that Balthaddon took advantage of Sohothin landing close by (or not - he might have called it somehow) in order to drain its power for himself, but that proved insufficient to break the chains from within. If the blade was extinguished because Balthaddon slurped up its power in the first place, then it would be fairly simple for him to reignite it simply by putting back what he'd taken.

[Cirrion.8951]

> @Squee.7829 said:

> I think the idea comes from the fact that, as far as anyone knows, no human god has ever just gone away. It has either been replaced, or locked away until something else can replace it. (i.e. Abaddon never stopped being the god of knowledge/secrets/whatever just because he was chained in another realm. He stopped being god of etc. when Kormir became the new vessel for that power) I think what they're also probably doing is jumping the gun a little and assuming that since Balthazar was stripped of his godhood, he was also stripped of his power, and since that power, as far as we've all been told, has to go SOMEWHERE, the gods must have already lined up a replacement (probably human) for Balthazar. That "god of war" power can't just float around in limbo.

>

> But, like you said, Kralky absorbed his power. At least that's my guess. Balthazar was still Balthazar. Still the god of war. Just weakened and not on friendly terms with the rest of the Pantheon. Just as Abaddon was before he was Kormired. And now a dragon has all that "God of war/fire" juju inside of it.

 

Except that Balthazar had lost his Divine magic by then; what Kralk absorbed was the magic that Balthazar had acquired through the Bloodstone and Primodius. From everything that we know about magic, when he was stripped of his divine magic it must have been channeled to some vessel.

[Bunny Is Cthulhu.7931]

> @Weindrasi.3805 said:

> Wait, wait, wait. Am I missing something here? New God of War? Why would there be one at all?

> Balthazar is dead, and the other 5 Gods left. Even if someone absorbs his powers (and didn't Kralky do that already??) I hardly think that person would take the role of "God of War"--or any sort of God at all. God-worship is a human thing. So maybe some misguided human would try to become a "new God," but I can only forsee that ending the way Gaheron Baelfire did.

> Where did this "New God of War" idea even come from?

 

Most of the speculation comes from Kormir herself. In the dialogue we have with her Rytlock points out that it technically should be The Five now instead of The Six and Kormir says Balthazar is no longer part of The Six. Now it is entirely possible she is simply saying The Six for simplicity's sake but we are working off the assumption that someone has replaced Balthazar.

 

She also says that Balthazar is no longer divine, something which is reinforced by the fact that we do not go blind when we confront Balthazar which is a side effect of being the presence of a divine being. Balthazar gained his power from the explosion in Bloodstone Fen and from what he managed to leech out of Primordus and Jormag, so technically Kralky is just reabsorbing dragon magic when Balthazar dies.

 

Nightfall also taught us that Abbadon's power would have done serious damage to the world if Kormir hadn't been there to contain it. So what happened to the divine power of Balthazar? It has to go somewhere without causing major damage to Tyria if we're following this logic. We're assuming it went to another entity.

 

tldr: Kormir said some fishy stuff and we're picking it apart and making assumptions because we're lore hounds.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Weindrasi.3805 said:

> Wait, wait, wait. Am I missing something here? New God of War? Why would there be one at all?

> Balthazar is dead, and the other 5 Gods left. Even if someone absorbs his powers (and didn't Kralky do that already??) I hardly think that person would take the role of "God of War"--or any sort of God at all. God-worship is a human thing. So maybe some misguided human would try to become a "new God," but I can only forsee that ending the way Gaheron Baelfire did.

> Where did this "New God of War" idea even come from?

 

1. Balthazar was stripped of his power. What Kralkatorrik ate came from Bloodstone, Primordus, and Jormag.

2. [We know from Nightfall that a god's power needs a vessel.](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Goddess_of_Truth)

3. Kormir still calls the group "The Six" rather than "The Five" she had known almost all her mortal life, and would have known almost all her divine life were they only Five.

 

Even if the individual isn't worshiped, they would still be a god as Balthazar's successor, being the new owner of Balthazar's divinity.

 

> @Squee.7829 said:

> I think what they're also probably doing is jumping the gun a little and assuming that since Balthazar was stripped of his godhood, he was also stripped of his power, and since that power, as far as we've all been told, has to go SOMEWHERE, the gods must have already lined up a replacement (probably human) for Balthazar. That "god of war" power can't just float around in limbo.

 

The entire point of Flashpoint - and in hindsight, Out of the Shadows - was that Balthazar had lost his power and needed to regain it by draining the Maguuma Bloodstone and Primordus/Jormag.

 

There's no "jumping the gun" - it's a **plot point smashed into our face**.

[Alga.6498]

This is very interesting indeed, I was kinda chocked to see Balthazar's fate of the end of PoF and sad it is.

Now that one of our human gods is not just defeated but dead, consumed by Kralkatorrik. And let's not forget that the rest of the Five has left Tyria- just like that, :cry:

I was hoping to see much more for the rest of the gods- Dwayna, Lyssa, Melandru... yeah we did visit Grenth's realm and visited Kormir but still! :angry:

Balthazar's death was unnecessary imo, but thanks to Rythlock (_thanks to him who are literally is okay realeasing a crazy god of war into Tyria from the Mists and we're not doing anything against him??? I don't get that. It was Rythlock's damn fault that Balthazar's escaped and went mad_).

 

Yes, we all know that killing our main objective- killing all the Elder Dragons will bla bla bla too much magic and enegry, bla bla will destory Tyria. Meh :sleeping:

If we really had a choice to choose which side we were going to fight with and against, I would def join Balthazar's side (_since I'm a human and I looove the gods lore :D_) and fight against all the Dragons, which we should be!

 

But back to the topic. Kormir said Balthazar is no longer **One of the Six**, and that he has already been replaced(?) I really wonder whom that might be who will take his title and become one of the human gods.

Some above me thinks it could be the GW1 PC, which could be a very interesting choice indeed. I couldn't think of someone's else but human characters of course. I really hope ANet wont ignore this or give the god title to... I don't know.. Braham or some other foolish character.

 

**My thought:**

We really haven't heard much about Balthazar's evil half-brother, Menzies, which could also be a great candidate to gain Balthy's title as him and Menzies hated each other which Menzies back in GW1 to aid himself in his fight against Balthazar, Menzies has made an alliance with Abaddon and Dhuum's servants.

I believe the person Kormir was talking about must be Menzies. Maybe he has become friendly and nice now all sudden since his half-brother gone even mad(er) than himself. Since we know so little about Menzies- if he is still alive or dead, this could be a great way to explore his story and lore among the human gods, :)

 

But Balthazar will always be one of the Six for me, :heart:

 

[Torn Fierceslash.6375]

I was thinking Menzies also but we know very little about him other then being a half brother and has a shadow army. I don't remember seen much about Menzies during the core GW2 game other than at godslost swap.

[Squee.7829]

>

> The entire point of Flashpoint - and in hindsight, Out of the Shadows - was that Balthazar had lost his power and needed to regain it by draining the Maguuma Bloodstone and Primordus/Jormag.

>

> There's no "jumping the gun" - it's a **plot point smashed into our face**.

 

And my point was that his power was weakened, but not taken. As in, he wasn't replacing his power with the bloodstone, but more using the bloodstone to hasten his "recharging ". That's why I used Abaddon as a precedent, because he too needed to recharge over a long period of time after he was dethroned. He even sought outside sources of energy such as the soulweir.

 

That being said, what Drax mentioned about Dhuum makes me reconsider just how plausible the "weakened, but not stripped " theory is. It seems less plausible now, since we also have a precedent for a God being stripped of his power and still living and getting enough power to even give the new God problems. I put too much weight behind the idea that completely removing a god from his role would destroy it, but that's obviously not always the case.