Scourge balance

[Sarrs.4831]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> While I do agree mostly with Lily regarding barrier, I do think that it should be a solid 2 seconds before Barrier starts to decay, and we also need stronger barriers (both base and scaling) in PvE. I would argue in PvP as well, but not WvW.

 

I worry that raising the base values for Barriers in PvE would just be inviting low damage output. I don't know how well that particular statement has gone over when ANet said it, but I don't disagree when they say you can't have both good support and good damage.

[Autumn.8043]

In my opinion agony shouldn't affect barrier at all, it goes against it's entire purpose of being pre-emptive with it's application. You could time it perfectly but Oops your ally has a random agony tick and your 6k+ barrier is suddenly a measly 1k and all was for not. I understand healing where you can continually keep up with the pressure but not with barrier.

 

> @Lily.1935 said:

> In terms of raw "Healing" I'll be focusing on that for blood magic. Since scourge isn't really about raw healing but protection, I want to make sure that blood magic has its place in a support build. So I don't feel our healing needs to be that high since protection monks in GW1 healing honestly wasn't that high either. And gaining healing from barrier from its decay actually isn't a good idea. Barrier is supposed to be proactive support not reactive defense. Which healing is reactive and that would just make it a bit too good in that department. The decay rate is another thing that is perfect as it is. Although i realize that this stance is an unpopular one.

 

Unfortunately this isn't GW1 though and nearly all encounters simply aren't designed around the very idea of Barrier (Prot Monk). 90% of PvE doesn't even require a healer unlike GW1. Even if barrier had access to some kind of regen, Scourge still would not be used in organized PvE to fill a support slot.. Why? Because Grace of the Land, Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Spirits, Banner, Empower Allies and Alacrity. We simply can not compete with that kind of support with our measly Vampiric Presence, Abrasive Gift, Transfusion and Barrier. Necromancer needs it's own useful and unique support outside of barrier, the same way Druid has theirs outside of just healing.

 

I do however agree that Blood Magic would be the perfect place for additional heal support. For starters Vampiric Presence really needs to have it's scaling looked at (which is tricky I know since you could have fast hitters gain insane sustain) and supply meaningful offensive support.

 

I'll stop now because when it comes to Necromancer I could write an essay.

 

[Maunzi.3764]

>which is tricky I know since you could have fast hitters gain insane sustain)

 

It could be made a proc that has an internal cooldown, and suddenly attack speed isn't a big problem.

[OnizukaBR.8537]

I think they should remove agony affecting barrier, and at least in PvE give us 2 second before barrier start decaying. Better heals coeficcient and lower base would be a good way to balance support scourge, and i loved the lifesteal suggestion.

[Dadnir.5038]

 

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > While I do agree mostly with Lily regarding barrier, I do think that it should be a solid 2 seconds before Barrier starts to decay, and we also need stronger barriers (both base and scaling) in PvE. I would argue in PvP as well, but not WvW.

>

> I worry that raising the base values for Barriers in PvE would just be inviting low damage output. I don't know how well that particular statement has gone over when ANet said it, but I don't disagree when they say you can't have both good support and good damage.

 

That's why I think that it would be better to put the "power" of the support onto the scourge trait instead of putting it on the base shroud skills of the scourge. Strong support traits that force you out of the dps traits if you want to support and a weak support if not traited for it.

[ZDragon.3046]

Well I for one totally agree that most of scourge's and reapers problems come from core and i would love to see core get some major quality of life changes that helps it catch up to other still functional core builds in my head fixing this would easily boost reaper to be a real power spec and give scourge a better chance at being a condi semi support spec although.

 

I dont want anet to feed core necro too much support if anything remove all of it from core so that it can focus on things more like self sustain and damage perhaps. this way like druid scourge can be the elite spec for necro that shines in support. Core should have almost no altruistic options imo other than the bare minimal cast x when reviving an ally

[Druitt.7629]

Question: is barrier affected by Concentration? If not, could Concentration affect the start of its decay?

 

(For example, it could start to decay 1.66 seconds after received, but with a high enough amount of Concentration, that could be extended. With enough Concentration to extend it by 30%, you'd end up with 2.2 seconds before decay starts.)

[Dadnir.5038]

answer: No. It could probably but the devs specifically reduced it's duration so, I doubt that they will be willing to do that.

[Lily.1935]

> @Autumn.8043 said:

> In my opinion agony shouldn't affect barrier at all, it goes against it's entire purpose of being pre-emptive with it's application. You could time it perfectly but Oops your ally has a random agony tick and your 6k+ barrier is suddenly a measly 1k and all was for not. I understand healing where you can continually keep up with the pressure but not with barrier.

>

> > @Lily.1935 said:

> > In terms of raw "Healing" I'll be focusing on that for blood magic. Since scourge isn't really about raw healing but protection, I want to make sure that blood magic has its place in a support build. So I don't feel our healing needs to be that high since protection monks in GW1 healing honestly wasn't that high either. And gaining healing from barrier from its decay actually isn't a good idea. Barrier is supposed to be proactive support not reactive defense. Which healing is reactive and that would just make it a bit too good in that department. The decay rate is another thing that is perfect as it is. Although i realize that this stance is an unpopular one.

>

> Unfortunately this isn't GW1 though and nearly all encounters simply aren't designed around the very idea of Barrier (Prot Monk). 90% of PvE doesn't even require a healer unlike GW1. Even if barrier had access to some kind of regen, Scourge still would not be used in organized PvE to fill a support slot.. Why? Because Grace of the Land, Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Spirits, Banner, Empower Allies and Alacrity. We simply can not compete with that kind of support with our measly Vampiric Presence, Abrasive Gift, Transfusion and Barrier. Necromancer needs it's own useful and unique support outside of barrier, the same way Druid has theirs outside of just healing.

>

> I do however agree that Blood Magic would be the perfect place for additional heal support. For starters Vampiric Presence really needs to have it's scaling looked at (which is tricky I know since you could have fast hitters gain insane sustain) and supply meaningful offensive support.

>

> I'll stop now because when it comes to Necromancer I could write an essay.

>

 

Barrier would be trash in GW1. The health pools were very very different and the class with the least health in GW2 has far more health than anyone in GW2. The scaling just wouldn't work on that low of a scale. however it does have similarities to shielding hands, protective spirit and other protection skills. With the high health it works far better than it would in GW2. The design of barrier is perfect were it is. The issue is the support surrounding it. Which there isn't a whole lot of it.

 

Also, I have written essays on the necromancer. You've probably read quite a few of them.

[Isidar.4789]

I agree with Dadnir that barrier should rely on support traits and stats being barely noticable with DPS spec but showing real power with healing power, concentration and necros not his target vitality. This way it will be also easy to balance between different game modes just by changing stat conversion numbers