Monster.4802 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Please dont make GW2 a WoW clone... The qT benchmark even says: Remember, don’t be a class nazi and have fun! The raids can be done with all classes. There is no need to even try to max your dmg output. Necro is a fun class. Dont change how the whole game works just because you do lower dps. You can do other things. The good thing about gw2 is that its not only about maxing dps you can do all the things in the game and finish it all with other builds. And standardizing buffs means some classes wont be played anymore cuz the unique buff would be gained with another class that might do something better. Lets say necro and warrior both give +150 toughness. And you want that but the warrior can do something else slightly better. Elitists will only pick warriors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster.4802 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Btw whats the hate against thief? So the least for each class and roles I suggest : Elementalist - Power, Condi, Heal. Mesmer - Power, Condi, Tank. Necromancer - Power, Condi, Heal. Ranger - Power, Condi, Heal. **Thief - Power, Condi.** Engineer - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank. Guardian - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank. Warrior - Power, Condi, Tank. Revenant - Power, Condi, Tank. They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4? Lets keep the game diverse and lets not take unique things from a class away and put them on others. I can see you would like a sandbox game. Where you can pick your own stats and skills. There are no classes and you can pick anything you want... There are games like that GW2 is not one of them. The reason I like GW2 is that when I log on my thief I have a completely different playstyle than when I log on my necro. Both are fun but each in their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKitty.6120 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Monster.4802 said: > **Thief - Power, Condi.** > They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4? Get some Knight's and Cavalier's trinkets and you have a rather good tank thief (as long as some mechanism doesn't require a mandatory block). Dem Invigorating Precision heals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walhalla.5473 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 If a class would be only brought because of a unique buff that gives you 150 points of one stat than the class itself has a problem. Lets say, PPD and EA are both giving 150 points in power and condition damage and don't stack off each other and it results that no group is accepting engi anymore. Is the problem the buff or the class itself? And to the WoW argument. While WoW has a better class diversity, the balancing itself is quite meh and sometimes its even worse than GW2 PvE balancing. Some specs have weird scaling with the stats and some are flawed by design ( Fury Warrior ). Which means that one spec can be trash tier at the beginning of the raid progression but top tier at the end thanks to the stats that are dropping and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethorus.9231 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 So in short OP wants GW2 to become WOW. It's comparing bananas with potatoes tbh, both games have different playstyles, and aside from the tech suggestion about having boons to apply to squads instead of groups to give other spot to other roles in the raid, I couldn't find anything else more useful. Ironic though is the fact that GW2 always stated it was a game without the holy trinity and a pseudo trinity had to be assembled so raids could be doable as they are of now *cof cof chronos and druids cof cof* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 From a game without a trinity, to a game with one of the strictest versions of it. In other mmorpgs you need a tank, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a chronomancer. In other mmorpgs you need a healer, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a druid I know that it's very possible to finish Raids without those, and for example Tempest healer is better healer than Druid. But this is the most optimal way to play and unfortunately we've seen nothing from the developers to change it, even after adding 9 new elite specs to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipion.7548 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > 2 years? > > I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant. > I have to defend Draco. I played I played WoW easily 8 cumulated years, from vanilla to now. Between WOTLK and MoP, I was an hardcore player, and during WOTLK I was member of the first guild of my server which was also the 10th best french guild (yes ok, the average french player isn't known to be the best player, but the top french players are more or less as good as the top german players) and then I was the best geared shaman of the server. Some of my guild mates were hardcore theorycrafters. **I don't write this to impress you** but to demonstate I have a good knowledge of WoW. **I played only one character in raid, never had to switch**. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "**bring the player, not the class**". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a **room for improvement for Anet**. GW2 has two problems : - the biggest problem is the fact that **Anet originally tried to avoid dedicated roles, which is impossible I think**. If Anet decides now to set 2-3 roles for each classes (while bringing solid tools for each classes to fill their roles), it would be more easy to balance and it would create less frustration for players ("i'm a heavy armor class, why i can't tank ?"). **At WoW if I create a shaman I know that I will be accepted as a dps or a healer in at least 90% of the raiding groups/guilds. Can I say that when creating a guardian (or another class) on GW2 ?** - this problem is aggravated by a the fact that it's too easy to create a new character instantly ready to raid. Because of that, the cost to force a member of your guild to switch to a more optimal class is close to 0. **Why playing an engineer when creating a druid ready to raid would take only few minutes** (if you have enough xp tomes and gear) ? On WoW you have to wait he tilts max lvl and then you have to gear it. And then a new patch comes which could waste all this effort. Solutions : - All gears and weapons, except legendaries, are now **character bound**. Maybe the possibily the send just one time an equipment to an other character if you loot something on the "wrong" character. - **each classes have 2-3 roles** (from power, condi, tank, support, and maybe healer differenciated from support and controller from tank). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joxer.6024 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design. > > > > > > > > > > > > so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right???????? > > > > > > > > > > That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance. > > > > > > > > > > Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant. > > > > > > > > WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this. > > > > > > Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment. > > > > > > Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums? > > > > > > Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny. > > > > I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive. > > 2 years? > > I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant. > > Lol, I wasn't going to comment but I agree Cyninja.....2 years!? I too was a vanilla player up to Legion and left because it all just got to homogenized. And to the OP, I know you asked us not to but after reading all this, mate, go back to WOW, you obviously miss it. This game needs to be so far away from WOW but sadly ANET is getting sucked into the hype and I hope they pull their heads out and get back on track. Yea Cyninja.....panda was painful as!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffan.8924 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > But you can play any class, any spec and still raid high level. Just because World Firsts asks for stacking Balance Druids (WoD?) doesn't mean everyone does it, same story with Guardian Druids later on. In GW2, you get kicked if your not even playing the right spec and 75% of weapons/specs are garbage, specifically weapon combos which are unusable. In fact, I will go as far to say that many weapons have actual abilities that are unusable or completely stupid, e.g Guardian Torch 5 is a dps LOSS LOL and everything in GW2 to do with projectiles is laughable, my favorite is the PvP abilities like Ranger LB 3, making 1/5 of your abilities useless in PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Monster.4802 said: > Btw whats the hate against thief? > > So the least for each class and roles I suggest : > Elementalist - Power, Condi, Heal. > Mesmer - Power, Condi, Tank. > Necromancer - Power, Condi, Heal. > Ranger - Power, Condi, Heal. > **Thief - Power, Condi.** > Engineer - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank. > Guardian - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank. > Warrior - Power, Condi, Tank. > Revenant - Power, Condi, Tank. > > They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4? > Lets keep the game diverse and lets not take unique things from a class away and put them on others. > > I can see you would like a sandbox game. Where you can pick your own stats and skills. There are no classes and you can pick anything you want... There are games like that GW2 is not one of them. The reason I like GW2 is that when I log on my thief I have a completely different playstyle than when I log on my necro. Both are fun but each in their own way. Since when thief can heal others or tank monsters? all the point is to be sneaky and deliver deadly damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Monster.4802 said: > Please dont make GW2 a WoW clone... > > The qT benchmark even says: > Remember, don’t be a class kitten and have fun! > > The raids can be done with all classes. There is no need to even try to max your dmg output. Necro is a fun class. Dont change how the whole game works just because you do lower dps. You can do other things. The good thing about gw2 is that its not only about maxing dps you can do all the things in the game and finish it all with other builds. > > And standardizing buffs means some classes wont be played anymore cuz the unique buff would be gained with another class that might do something better. > Lets say necro and warrior both give +150 toughness. And you want that but the warrior can do something else slightly better. Elitists will only pick warriors... It won't happen that 1 is better. there's no better cuz boss mechanics if they're balanced but when no balanced at all ya take the best cuz too much difference. Elitists were born cuz of thoe big differences, if there wasn't a gap they wouldn't even notice it and let 'em even both in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Scipion.7548 said: > **I played only one character in raid, never had to switch**. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "**bring the player, not the class**". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a **room for improvement for Anet**. You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore? Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design. > > > > > > > > > > > > so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right???????? > > > > > > > > > > That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance. > > > > > > > > > > Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant. > > > > > > > > WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this. > > > > > > Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment. > > > > > > Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums? > > > > > > Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny. > > > > I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive. > > 2 years? > > I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant. > > I played WotLK and Cataclysm. I liked how they evolved form expansion to expansion to more friendly systems, however I felt only gear grind in the end. I still won't forget the good raids in cataclysm that made many people wipe and I was with low gear outdpsing people with less gear cuz I choose the right stats for my spec while others just loaded item level without looking at the stats. People that actually understood better in their class than me understanding in my class out dpsed me regardless what class it was. I still felt useful with the edgy class DK and I liked it. But in GW2 I like necro but can't be useful at all. If I use it now I become lowest dps in my guild and drag the team down. I've even a friend played WoD and Legion and says everything is organized while gw2 everything is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @Scipion.7548 said: > > > **I played only one character in raid, never had to switch**. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "**bring the player, not the class**". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a **room for improvement for Anet**. > > You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore? > > Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest. ya played for so long and yet ya're the most ignorant of all of us. Took 2 monthes to kill a boss in mythic in WoD. what in gw2? 1 day to kill a boss and like few days on CM? gear is for ya to have a goal to progress because they don't have much options like skins and other casual things in gw2. The thing that actually made people progress in the game was before the expansion with the dungeons that people needed to learn how to blast smoke fields and fire fields to skip and burst bosses but the content was so crap people started to do it while asleep and grinded gold from it. Ya totally ignored all of my points and claim wow isn't balanced while gw2 is ok compared to first day of any WoW expansion. But who I do argue with, with someone with a biased player who thinks others are wrong and he's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together. > > > > > > > > > > You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse). > > > > > > > > > > How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight? > > > > > > > > > > How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers? > > > > > > > > > > I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works. > > > > > > > > > > Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design. > > > > > > > > so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right???????? > > > > > > That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets. > > > > > > GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance. > > > > > > Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference. > > > > I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant. > > > > WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this. > > Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment. > > Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums? > > Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny. That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Zenith.7301 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight? > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers? > > > > > > > > > > > > I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design. > > > > > > > > > > so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right???????? > > > > > > > > That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets. > > > > > > > > GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance. > > > > > > > > Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference. > > > > > > I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant. > > > > > > WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this. > > > > Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment. > > > > Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums? > > > > Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny. > > That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about. I never said so, but since we are comparing: are you implying GW2 classes play similar? I said they normalised skills accross multiple classes (especially healing and support). There is a difference there. There is no unique skills for any WoW class any longer. It makes balance a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Draco.9480 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @Scipion.7548 said: > > > > > **I played only one character in raid, never had to switch**. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "**bring the player, not the class**". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a **room for improvement for Anet**. > > > > You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore? > > > > Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest. > > ya played for so long and yet ya're the most ignorant of all of us. Took 2 monthes to kill a boss in mythic in WoD. what in gw2? 1 day to kill a boss and like few days on CM? > gear is for ya to have a goal to progress because they don't have much options like skins and other casual things in gw2. > The thing that actually made people progress in the game was before the expansion with the dungeons that people needed to learn how to blast smoke fields and fire fields to skip and burst bosses but the content was so crap people started to do it while asleep and grinded gold from it. > Ya totally ignored all of my points and claim wow isn't balanced while gw2 is ok compared to first day of any WoW expansion. But who I do argue with, with someone with a biased player who thinks others are wrong and he's ok. I never said GW2 was okay. I was calling you out on your bs that WoW is balanced when it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain.7543 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Reading some points in your post OP I have to wonder... do we play the same game? What taunt skills? The only instance when CC is used is to break CC bars. Such taunt mechanic doesnt even exist in raids, so you genarally ask the devs to completely rework some of the basic mechanics and how raids function at its core, which alone will require a MASSIVE amount of work. No, thanks. I rather have the small raid and fractals teams focus on getting new content out. Also what bosses are there that would require 2 tanks at the same time and even if they did how is that going to help at all with build diversity, considering the monopoly chronos have on tanking and for good reason? Consider that even if alacrity and quickness gets nerfec, chronos will still be laregely prefered as tanks. They arent just alacrity/quickness bots. They bring much more on the table, as far as utility and team support goes. Are we again playing the same game? Mind also explain to me how you will kill Xera without any healer at all, or any boss at all for that matter? As far, as Weaver goes 47k dps on golem is a qT benchmark. Outside of the hardcore raiding groups a large percent of the Ele's fail to reach even half that number and thats on golem, let alone in real raid scenario, so Weaver is far from the most prefered dps option at the moment. Quite the opposite - the dps spots now are more devirsed then ever - you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems (excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally) You dont really ask for balance, no. From what I've gathered from your post you are asking for complete rework on how raids and fractals function, so you can play your necro. I've seen a lot of people asking for massive changes and balances, so they can play whatever they want in raids. The reality is... that really cant happen in high level challenging content, because no matter what balances Anet do, players will always come up with most effecient team comps, and that will inevitably leave some classes out of the meta. META's arent something unique to Guild wars 2 either, you have those in almost any MMO that ever existed. But also META is not the only way to play, its the way to go if you want to be most efficient in your gameplay, but you can do pretty smooth raid clears with a lot of different raids setups, which arent META. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > From a game without a trinity, to a game with one of the strictest versions of it. > In other mmorpgs you need a tank, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a chronomancer. > In other mmorpgs you need a healer, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a druid > > I know that it's very possible to finish Raids without those, and for example Tempest healer is better healer than Druid. > But this is the most optimal way to play and unfortunately we've seen nothing from the developers to change it, even after adding 9 new elite specs to the game. WoW is exactly the same. From the first 20 Sargeras Mystic kills 19 of them used druids as tanks (not the first raid of the expansion). There will be always an optimal way to play. You can change it but you can't remove it. Removing unique buffs just makes it worse. With unique buffs you have a reason to take classes even if they are not on the top. Without it just pick the best and rotate whatever the best of the current patch is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @Zenith.7301 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Draco.9480 said: > > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, just wow. That's bias right there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design. > > > > > > > > > > > > so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right???????? > > > > > > > > > > That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets. > > > > > > > > > > GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance. > > > > > > > > > > Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant. > > > > > > > > WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this. > > > > > > Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment. > > > > > > Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums? > > > > > > Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny. > > > > That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about. > > I never said so, but since we are comparing: are you implying GW2 classes play similar? > > I said they normalised skills accross multiple classes (especially healing and support). There is a difference there. There is no unique skills for any WoW class any longer. It makes balance a lot easier. Yer opinion doesn't matter. fact is in competitive in WoW ya can use any dps spec and be as much as effective as others while in GW2 isn't the case. So yer statements is useless basically if ya just call my flaws and nothing else. Is my argument pointing at the dev's work not relevant anymore just cuz ya think WoW isn't balanced like I said? Why did ya come here just to trash on people that actually want improvement and not stay in the same cave of druids, chronos and berserkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Rain.7543 said: > Reading some points in your post OP I have to wonder... do we play the same game? What taunt skills? The only instance when CC is used is to break CC bars. Such taunt mechanic doesnt even exist in raids, so you genarally ask the devs to completely rework some of the basic mechanics and how raids function at its core, which alone will require a MASSIVE amount of work. No, thanks. I rather have the small raid and fractals teams focus on getting new content out. Also what bosses are there that would require 2 tanks at the same time and even if they did how is that going to help at all with build diversity, considering the monopoly chronos have on tanking and for good reason? Consider that even if alacrity and quickness gets nerfec, chronos will still be laregely prefered as tanks. They arent just alacrity/quickness bots. They bring much more on the table, as far as utility and team support goes. Are we again playing the same game? Mind also explain to me how you will kill Xera without any healer at all, or any boss at all for that matter? > > As far, as Weaver goes 47k dps on golem is a qT benchmark. Outside of the hardcore raiding groups a large percent of the Ele's fail to reach even half that number and thats on golem, let alone in real raid scenario, so Weaver is far from the most prefered dps option at the moment. Quite the opposite - the dps spots now are more devirsed then ever - you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems (excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally) > > You dont really ask for balance, no. From what I've gathered from your post you are asking for complete rework on how raids and fractals function, so you can play your necro. I've seen a lot of people asking for massive changes and balances, so they can play whatever they want in raids. The reality is... that really cant happen in high level challenging content, because no matter what balances Anet do, players will always come up with most effecient team comps, and that will inevitably leave some classes out of the meta. META's arent something unique to Guild wars 2 either, you have those in almost any MMO that ever existed. But also META is not the only way to play, its the way to go if you want to be most efficient in your gameplay, but you can do pretty smooth raid clears with a lot of different raids setups, which arent META. Who cares about bad players not adapting to the class. I'm talking about competitive and not casuals! People in my guild hit the benchmark of qT and do way more DPS than they did on Tempest on power favored bosses which are the most bosses in raids and 95% of the fractals. Ya have no idea what ya're talking about when ya tell me I don't have to go META. META=most efficient tactics available. In WoW there's not much of META. Ya just said ya can clear raids but "(excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally) ". so yer argument goes to trashcan. Those bosses are part of the game and ya can't ignore 'em. Can ya do KC mid with 4 Necros? Can ya do Sloth 3 Mushrooms Sloth with DD Power? Can ya do Xera middle with 2 rangers and 2 engineers? Why can't I do perform hardcore tactics with those classes? ya know why? cuz NO BALANCE BETWEEN CLASSES AND BUILDS! Also about xera I killed Xera middle with any healer. 4 tempest f/a staff, 2 condi druids, 1 minstrel chrono, 1 power chrono and 2 CPS. So don't tell me ya need healers for faceroll content. Why would the devs actually do a massive load of work when they can design some useless skin in the gemstore and sell it for money. Gemstore is more important than balance and healthy gameplay in both hardcore and casual PvE. aslo " you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems"????????? are ya kidding me? necro prefered over tempest? It was maybe prefered in W4, Matthias and Sabetha yes before the "fix" now it's just completely useless and no one takes it anymore. even qT removed it from benchmark and necro doesn't even exist as valid PvE choice anymore. Power any ranger, thief, warr, mesmer and rev don't exist at all. Even LFG won't take 'em since they're useless and can't perform any significant DPS. Ya clearly don't know what ya're talking about when ya said necro is prefered over weaver on most bosses. Do yer homework before saying such BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnizukaBR.8537 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Of course WoW is more balanced. Do you have meaningfull gear choices, stats and skill there? No, so there is way easier to balance. As a warrior I can use mace, hammer, GS, axe... choose from many traits, stats, runes, sigils... in WoW i can choose between 3 specs, and everyone in that spec is the same. Way boring and way easier to balance, thank god GW isnt like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco.9480 Posted October 23, 2017 Author Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @OnizukaBR.8537 said: > Of course WoW is more balanced. Do you have meaningfull gear choices, stats and skill there? No, so there is way easier to balance. As a warrior I can use mace, hammer, GS, axe... choose from many traits, stats, runes, sigils... in WoW i can choose between 3 specs, and everyone in that spec is the same. Way boring and way easier to balance, thank god GW isnt like that. Thanks the imaginary friend made zis game less diverse and less choice and more boring about choosing yer spec for being optimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipion.7548 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 > @Miellyn.6847 said: > WoW is exactly the same. From the first 20 Sargeras Mystic kills 19 of them used druids as tanks (not the first raid of the expansion). There will be always an optimal way to play. You can change it but you can't remove it. Removing unique buffs just makes it worse. With unique buffs you have a reason to take classes even if they are not on the top. Without it just pick the best and rotate whatever the best of the current patch is. On WoW, 1% of the raid groups use the very optimal way to play. On GW2, 99% of the raid groups use the very optimal way to play. On WoW, the 36 specs are allowed to raid (in all difficulties). On GW2, sometimes even some classes aren't allowed to raid. Stop comparing the average raid group of GW2 and the raid group of WoW participating to the first kill server race. I was an hardcore player in an hardcore guild and we never refused someone because of his class, even when we were first of the server. And this was during WOTLK, today it is even more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sethorus.9231 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I am actually looking for how the next balance and raid patch might level everything. At the moment PoF specs are somwhat overtuned and some older specs are still underperforming, while others basically always overperforming due to their kits (looking at you guardians) The raid environment could use some fresh air with more builds variety in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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