jul.7602 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Prove me wrong. HOT release, revenants spamming 10k cor on 3 second cooldown with 1 minute of resistance and quickness. Chunks of players are suddenly, and randomly killed by a rev hiding safely within the enemy zerg. Boonshare meta ended, perma resistance ends allowing for condi meta to arise, deathly chill reapers with epidemic begin to dominate wvw. *Nerfed* power revs still linger, albeit only 3-4 shotting players. Meta becomes a gaint deathball of condi. Anyone within 1200 range of said deathball gets 4-5 condis instantly, get any closer and you risk getting "condi bombed" with 20+ stacks of bleed and your health bar goes from full to 0 in within a few ticks. Oh and btw, make sure you don't stand next to your downed allies or you get "epi-ed" and recieve a fatal amount of conditions, this of course happens without any visual cue and instantly. In between condi meta and pof, condi revs shown to outdps and sustain their power rev counterparts, condi revs phase out power revs. Players with arc dps notice that condi revs are outdpsing even shout reapers, condi revs begin to compete with reapers for dps, and "rev stacking" 2 rev parties become popular. Meta plays more or less just like the one before. Damagewise, these two classes are leagues beyond everything else and anet's inability to balance them is hurting this game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 From my perspective the entire WvW meta from small scale to large scale from launch until now has been set by the relative effectiveness of guardians at any given time. So the first and most important question that any guild group has always had to determine with their comp has always been and continues to be: "Can it bring down a guardian heavy group?" The same question has to be asked of any pug build if you're planning on participating in any medium to large scale fights: "what happens if they have a lot of guardians?" If your build can't handle guardians you're going to be useless against any even semi organized group. The other corollary to this permanent reality of WvW is that your comp or your individual build isn't viable if it can't handle fighting guardians. The thing about necros going all the way back to launch and persisting until today is that they've been the only class that's consistently had a build that could apply enough pressure to a guardian heavy melee oriented group to actually give them something to worry about when pushing. At one point it was power wells then it was shout reapers with HoT and now trailblazer Scourges in PoF they've always been the big guardian killer because they're the only class with enough aoe spike damage to punish Guardian heavy groups that just push into things. Revenant is a little different. Revenants at the beginning of HoT were able to exploit one of the fatal flaws of guardians; they're slow and they can be beaten by trading at range. So glassy and mobile hammer Rev became an effective tool to use against Guardians until they nerfed CoR. Melee ball made its way back and Revenant resistance uptime coupled with boonshare mesmer and stab guard made melee ball gameplay basically god mode in HoT. Condi revs coupled with shout reapers can kill basically anything in a melee trade and once people started figuring that out guilds were just running condi melee ball. Now the meta has changed and this time it's because guardians can be effectively hard countered in a melee trade. But this isn't just because of scourges, which are ofcourse very strong, this is because of the advent of spellbreakers. The combination of spellbreakers, scourges and to a lesser extent condi revs can stop any guardian heavy melee ball group dead in their tracks with unsurvivable amounts of condi spike and no means of maintaining stability or resistance. This makes pushing a very risky proposition and so many groups are now just playing it safe at range. But to me this is a problem that still centers around the relative strength of guardians. When guardians are strong, any group can just stack guardians and push through anything and when guardians are weak no one can push. The whole game mode has revolved around guardians since launch and continues to do so today. If they nerf scourge and spellbreaker then guardians will once again rule everything and we'll go right back to permapush melee condi ball meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Nothing to prove wrong. Arenanet developers have destroyed competitive play since HoT. They went overboard buffing damage, conditions, corruption, and boons. They've allowed skills to hit harder than minimum health pools. They didn't learn any lessons with HoT, and instead went ahead and made corruption and strips even worse in PoF. They think having groups pop off and maintain 8 boons is fun. They think having having boons corrupted to 8 conditions with basically unlimited cap is fun. They think having groups blast light fields to get rid of the conditions and start the cycle again is fun. Meanwhile a lot of players are no longer having fun with gw2 combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freydinand.1073 Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Arena reading this forum?? I think no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @jul.7602 said: > HOT release, revenants spamming 10k cor on 3 second cooldown with 1 minute of resistance and quickness. Chunks of players are suddenly, and randomly killed by a rev hiding safely within the enemy zerg. I too am unable to see giant glowing cracks in the ground heading towards me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandzibar.5134 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @jul.7602 said: > > HOT release, revenants spamming 10k cor on 3 second cooldown with 1 minute of resistance and quickness. Chunks of players are suddenly, and randomly killed by a rev hiding safely within the enemy zerg. > I too am unable to see giant glowing cracks in the ground heading towards me. Im amazed you can see anything in the giant SFX mess that Anet has created when you have more than 2 people fighting each other ... ART SUPERSEDES EVERYTHING! - The ANet Mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @jul.7602 said: > Prove me wrong. Wait whats the claim to prove wrong? Everything in the post is well known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 mmm lets adapt and use the broken mechanics =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqueFyre.5678 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Remember everyone even though 2/3s of the game revolves around a PvP, they receive the least amount of attention and resources, and all focus is set on PvE, and if you think something needs to be fixed ASAP try to solo a raid boss and watch how fast it gets “fixed”. This game hasn’t been competitive in any sense since 2013, so rude the gravy train on the inbalance and collect shinies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Competitive WvW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @Freydinand.1073 said: > Arena reading this forum?? I think no. It's worse that they just ignore us instead of not reading it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @Israel.7056 said: > From my perspective the entire WvW meta from small scale to large scale from launch until now has been set by the relative effectiveness of guardians at any given time. So the first and most important question that any guild group has always had to determine with their comp has always been and continues to be: "Can it bring down a guardian heavy group?" The same question has to be asked of any pug build if you're planning on participating in any medium to large scale fights: "what happens if they have a lot of guardians?" If your build can't handle guardians you're going to be useless against any even semi organized group. > > The other corollary to this permanent reality of WvW is that your comp or your individual build isn't viable if it can't handle fighting guardians. > > The thing about necros going all the way back to launch and persisting until today is that they've been the only class that's consistently had a build that could apply enough pressure to a guardian heavy melee oriented group to actually give them something to worry about when pushing. At one point it was power wells then it was shout reapers with HoT and now trailblazer Scourges in PoF they've always been the big guardian killer because they're the only class with enough aoe spike damage to punish Guardian heavy groups that just push into things. > > Revenant is a little different. Revenants at the beginning of HoT were able to exploit one of the fatal flaws of guardians; they're slow and they can be beaten by trading at range. So glassy and mobile hammer Rev became an effective tool to use against Guardians until they nerfed CoR. Melee ball made its way back and Revenant resistance uptime coupled with boonshare mesmer and stab guard made melee ball gameplay basically god mode in HoT. Condi revs coupled with shout reapers can kill basically anything in a melee trade and once people started figuring that out guilds were just running condi melee ball. > > Now the meta has changed and this time it's because guardians can be effectively hard countered in a melee trade. But this isn't just because of scourges, which are ofcourse very strong, this is because of the advent of spellbreakers. The combination of spellbreakers, scourges and to a lesser extent condi revs can stop any guardian heavy melee ball group dead in their tracks with unsurvivable amounts of condi spike and no means of maintaining stability or resistance. This makes pushing a very risky proposition and so many groups are now just playing it safe at range. > > But to me this is a problem that still centers around the relative strength of guardians. When guardians are strong, any group can just stack guardians and push through anything and when guardians are weak no one can push. The whole game mode has revolved around guardians since launch and continues to do so today. If they nerf scourge and spellbreaker then guardians will once again rule everything and we'll go right back to permapush melee condi ball meta. > Yep, this guy gets it. Promote that man! Guardians are the poster child for aoe stability too... D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcaedus.7290 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @jul.7602 said: > Prove me wrong. > HOT release, revenants spamming 10k cor on 3 second cooldown with 1 minute of resistance and quickness. BETTER NERF TRUESHOT AGAIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandzibar.5134 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > @jul.7602 said: > > Prove me wrong. > > HOT release, revenants spamming 10k cor on 3 second cooldown with 1 minute of resistance and quickness. > > BETTER NERF TRUESHOT AGAIN > > Fried gold. So very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobsters.3869 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 ... Seems to me that this could all be fixed by not allowing characters to stack on top of each other. I've had the benefit of playing many online pvp games where the main focus wasn't 1v1 tactics, but group on group scenarios. Every single game without some kind of people collision is doomed to never be what it was supposed to be. The whole purpose of having a melee champion with armor and able to take a hit, is basically so that they can stand out in front and take the hits. But all of that is nothing if the other team can just run right through them whenever they desire. It breaks every attempt of balance when you try to balance around a movement system which remains broken. Would making this change create a new list of problems? Yeah, yeah it would. But it would create more new strategies and tactics also. Either way the wvw seems to revolve mostly around people zerging around the map when the other server's population is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 10k cor? at the beginning of hot? its more like 17k NOW :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 HAHAHAHA revs are one of the easiest classes to fight against. Its very rare to find a "great" rev but thats imo. Not once have I though to myself "rev hammer is really ruining my WvW experience". Same fro necros. Why a thread for the easiest classes to beat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said: > HAHAHAHA revs are one of the easiest classes to fight against. Its very rare to find a "great" rev but thats imo. Not once have I though to myself "rev hammer is really ruining my WvW experience". Same fro necros. Why a thread for the easiest classes to beat? BECAUSE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FREE KILLS WTF MY PRECURSORS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvyn.4750 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @GDchiaScrub.3241 said: > > @Israel.7056 said: > > From my perspective the entire WvW meta from small scale to large scale from launch until now has been set by the relative effectiveness of guardians at any given time. So the first and most important question that any guild group has always had to determine with their comp has always been and continues to be: "Can it bring down a guardian heavy group?" The same question has to be asked of any pug build if you're planning on participating in any medium to large scale fights: "what happens if they have a lot of guardians?" If your build can't handle guardians you're going to be useless against any even semi organized group. > > > > The other corollary to this permanent reality of WvW is that your comp or your individual build isn't viable if it can't handle fighting guardians. > > > > The thing about necros going all the way back to launch and persisting until today is that they've been the only class that's consistently had a build that could apply enough pressure to a guardian heavy melee oriented group to actually give them something to worry about when pushing. At one point it was power wells then it was shout reapers with HoT and now trailblazer Scourges in PoF they've always been the big guardian killer because they're the only class with enough aoe spike damage to punish Guardian heavy groups that just push into things. > > > > Revenant is a little different. Revenants at the beginning of HoT were able to exploit one of the fatal flaws of guardians; they're slow and they can be beaten by trading at range. So glassy and mobile hammer Rev became an effective tool to use against Guardians until they nerfed CoR. Melee ball made its way back and Revenant resistance uptime coupled with boonshare mesmer and stab guard made melee ball gameplay basically god mode in HoT. Condi revs coupled with shout reapers can kill basically anything in a melee trade and once people started figuring that out guilds were just running condi melee ball. > > > > Now the meta has changed and this time it's because guardians can be effectively hard countered in a melee trade. But this isn't just because of scourges, which are ofcourse very strong, this is because of the advent of spellbreakers. The combination of spellbreakers, scourges and to a lesser extent condi revs can stop any guardian heavy melee ball group dead in their tracks with unsurvivable amounts of condi spike and no means of maintaining stability or resistance. This makes pushing a very risky proposition and so many groups are now just playing it safe at range. > > > > But to me this is a problem that still centers around the relative strength of guardians. When guardians are strong, any group can just stack guardians and push through anything and when guardians are weak no one can push. The whole game mode has revolved around guardians since launch and continues to do so today. If they nerf scourge and spellbreaker then guardians will once again rule everything and we'll go right back to permapush melee condi ball meta. > > > > Yep, this guy gets it. Promote that man! Guardians are the poster child for aoe stability too... D: Agreed, awesome analysis...and what would make Guardians even more effective? Distinct colors for enemy vs. friendly spellbreaker Winds! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 > @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said: > HAHAHAHA revs are one of the easiest classes to fight against. Its very rare to find a "great" rev but thats imo. Not once have I though to myself "rev hammer is really ruining my WvW experience". Same fro necros. Why a thread for the easiest classes to beat? seems you are more the 1v1 guy. where the thread is more the 25 vs 25 (or bigger) thing? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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