Spellbreaker/Core Warrior Balance Suggestions

[nicknamenick.2437]

Last stand has to be good because of CI...

 

Every warrior used CI over any other trait.. and now last stand is OP?

 

Guess why? Because spellbreaker.. nerf spellbreaker and leave last stand as it is.

 

Nerfind last stand does hurt core warriors. And no not every core warrior use CI over last stand.. nerfing last stand means CI everyday all day again.. is that what you want? Less options?

 

 

[coro.3176]

Last Stand is bad design because it promotes skill-less behavior and punishes skillful play.

 

If I see a Warrior charging at me as an Engi, and in the <1s I have to react, I glance at the Warrior's bar and see no stability, glance at my endurance and see that I'm out of dodges, glance at my skill bar and see that my Overcharged Shot knockback is off cooldown, then use the skill to interrupt the Warrior

...

Only to have it hit Last Stand - Warrior gets stability and isn't interrupted. I get cc'd and combo'd to death - all because of a trait I couldn't have known the Warrior was running until I tested it.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

> @coro.3176 said:

> Last Stand is bad design because it promotes skill-less behavior and punishes skillful play.

>

> If I see a Warrior charging at me as an Engi, and in the <1s I have to react, I glance at the Warrior's bar and see no stability, glance at my endurance and see that I'm out of dodges, glance at my skill bar and see that my Overcharged Shot knockback is off cooldown, then use the skill to interrupt the Warrior

> ...

> Only to have it hit Last Stand - Warrior gets stability and isn't interrupted. I get cc'd and combo'd to death - all because of a trait I couldn't have known the Warrior was running until I tested it.

 

I think it depends on what angle you frame it in. All it takes is 1 headshot from a d/p thief to proc Last Stand and then warrior has very little access to stab/stun breaks. There are strong stun break traits all over, but this one in particular is very easily baited. From a "delaying" a node/pressure perspective, Last Stand is pretty strong, but if they enemy can reliably proc it from range they can just wait out the 10s of stab.

[coro.3176]

But then it's up again .. what, 30s later? But anyway, the exact numbers aren't the point. It's that it's a passive safety net that protects the player from mistakes without any skill investment and punishes opponents without any way for them to tell if it's up or not. A visual tell (aura, status bar icon, something) would help.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Juba.8406 said:

> You got a problem with Spellbreakers, OK i get it, that is fine with me.

>

> But why the hell are you nerfing Core Warrior ??!!

>

> Nerf Spellbreaker to the ground for all i care, Anet took years to get Core warrior balanced as of today only to get destroyed because you didn't like SB ?!

 

Actually, I think that parts of core warrior need to be reworked. Currently, it has too many mechanics that serve to reduce the gap in effectiveness between skilled and unskilled players. There are also a number of aspects that reduce the counterplay possibilities (I mean, what other profession receives the bulk of their healing from a source that cannot be interrupted or played around in any way?), along with a larger number of powerful passive procs than other professions have. Make core warrior more difficult to play, and you're able to increase the rewards for warrior players who are competent. Currently, a large number of unskilled players are using spellbreaker as a crutch to be more effective than their skill level should allow, and much of the problem is based in the passives of core warrior trait lines and skills.

[BurrTheKing.8571]

> @ButterPeanut.9746 said:

> > @coro.3176 said:

> > Last Stand is bad design because it promotes skill-less behavior and punishes skillful play.

> >

> > If I see a Warrior charging at me as an Engi, and in the <1s I have to react, I glance at the Warrior's bar and see no stability, glance at my endurance and see that I'm out of dodges, glance at my skill bar and see that my Overcharged Shot knockback is off cooldown, then use the skill to interrupt the Warrior

> > ...

> > Only to have it hit Last Stand - Warrior gets stability and isn't interrupted. I get cc'd and combo'd to death - all because of a trait I couldn't have known the Warrior was running until I tested it.

>

> I think it depends on what angle you frame it in. All it takes is 1 headshot from a d/p thief to proc Last Stand and then warrior has very little access to stab/stun breaks. There are strong stun break traits all over, but this one in particular is very easily baited. From a "delaying" a node/pressure perspective, Last Stand is pretty strong, but if they enemy can reliably proc it from range they can just wait out the 10s of stab.

 

That 10 CD of Stability is a really long time in this game, especially pulsing Stability. Factor in the other two stun breaks we tend to run and Full Counter and landing a significant combo can be nearly impossible. Not to mention the only Condi builds that stand a chance are those with good boon strip. I actually like the idea of War having low removal but high Resistance, but not in addition to massive Stability and physical damage mitigation as well.

[SkyFurY.6057]

They already finished the patch and wont listen to anything at all...

[Hitman.5829]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > @Caedmon.6798 said:

> > Now last stand is suddenly broken ? I just cant...lmao.

>

> It has always been the strongest auto stun break in the game, it keeps you from even being interrupted because the stability happens first.

>

> Then you become functionally immune for CC longer than any other class. Guard can have high stability uptime but there's gaps you can capitalise on. After Last Stand wears off, you still have 2 stun breaks and Full Counter every 6 seconds.

>

> You could change the ICD to have the same uptime percentage, but with it lasting only a few seconds there's an actual chance to CC them. Even then you would have to stop the damage at 50% because of Defy Pain, which saves the War where many other classes might die. Outside of Engi (which only happens at 25% and is often a death sentence), and Ranger (which is just as annoying as Defy Pain) have the same kind of auto save. I think Rev does too but only on Herald. Every other class will have to expend a skill which requires quick reaction times.

>

> I feel way more skilled getting picks with my Holo than my War. I get 2 passives that are basically the more balanced versions of what I have on War. If I screw up I'm dead, as it should be.

>

> Last Stand became a problem when Full Counter became a thing. We can't just ignore SB existing when balancing core Warrior. Nerfing just SB to the point that it's "balanced" means basically making it useless. I'd rather we get some skill bases reworks rather than getting needed into uselessness and going back to core War for the next 2 years.

 

You are kidding right? Guard is the only class with access to most stability. Do you even play GW2?

Also, why are you complaining about stability on warrior? if you remove stability from warrior, the warrior will become a rag doll, warrior is a melee class for god's sake! Everyone will rag doll the warrior at 1200 range! Is that what you want?

[Vertep.2498]

> @Hitman.5829 said:

> > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > @Caedmon.6798 said:

> > > Now last stand is suddenly broken ? I just cant...lmao.

> >

> > It has always been the strongest auto stun break in the game, it keeps you from even being interrupted because the stability happens first.

> >

> > Then you become functionally immune for CC longer than any other class. Guard can have high stability uptime but there's gaps you can capitalise on. After Last Stand wears off, you still have 2 stun breaks and Full Counter every 6 seconds.

> >

> > You could change the ICD to have the same uptime percentage, but with it lasting only a few seconds there's an actual chance to CC them. Even then you would have to stop the damage at 50% because of Defy Pain, which saves the War where many other classes might die. Outside of Engi (which only happens at 25% and is often a death sentence), and Ranger (which is just as annoying as Defy Pain) have the same kind of auto save. I think Rev does too but only on Herald. Every other class will have to expend a skill which requires quick reaction times.

> >

> > I feel way more skilled getting picks with my Holo than my War. I get 2 passives that are basically the more balanced versions of what I have on War. If I screw up I'm dead, as it should be.

> >

> > Last Stand became a problem when Full Counter became a thing. We can't just ignore SB existing when balancing core Warrior. Nerfing just SB to the point that it's "balanced" means basically making it useless. I'd rather we get some skill bases reworks rather than getting needed into uselessness and going back to core War for the next 2 years.

>

> You are kidding right? Guard is the only class with access to most stability. Do you even play GW2?

> Also, why are you complaining about stability on warrior? if you remove stability from warrior, the warrior will become a rag doll, warrior is a melee class for god's sake! Everyone will rag doll the warrior at 1200 range! Is that what you want?

 

LOL

 

I see very rarely stability on guards lol...guard with access to most stability...but probably only with decend build which will be useful in every other aspect so no one is playing this way because its not worth while when I fight with spellbreaker not only he is immune to every attack in 90% time of fight but Im never able to cc him because have almost nonstop stability and have it 100% uptime atlest when he isnt immune to damage

[Lighter.5631]

> @Vertep.2498 said:

> > @Lighter.5631 said:

> > these passives becomes essential because thief and mesmer exist

>

> uhh so all other classes need to be hurted because of those 2?

 

yes, that's how this game works in pvp

[Daishi.6027]

> @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> No stacks of Adrenal Health or Resistance unless the counter actually hit someone. I tested and right now so long as it triggers you get it, which makes it much easier to sustain yourself.

 

This I find is the biggest issue and should be corrected before any direct nerfs are made to it... Except maybe a cool-down increase?

 

[Elegie.3620]

> @Solaerin.8635 said:

> To everyone saying 'You don't want to gut core warrior by nerfing Last Stand': Core Warriors don't take Last Stand. They almost always take Cleansing Ire. Spellbreakers take Last Stand over Cleansing Ire because a.) their burst skills are always tier 1, so Cleansing Ire is weaker, and b.) Full Counter grants resistance, so they deal with conditions that way instead. If they nerf Last Stand, which they absolutely should because it's bad game design, it wouldn't have an effect on core warriors because it's not a trait they're likely to take.

 

You're right about why Cleansing ire is not even considered on Spellbreaker, the tier 1 limitation has hurt many things on the warrior (traits or F1 skills scaling with adrenaline). However, you're wrong about Last Stand, it's been used a lot, people simply switch their builds in regards of what they're facing. In WvW, Last Stand is always taken over Cleansing Ire on a power warrior. I've been playing here for years, and many builds posted in the warrior forum prefer Last Stand too.

 

Last Stand is good by itself, but it is also great because it frees a utility slot, by providing stability. In other words, you can swap out Balanced Stance for whatever - Bull's Charge, Signet of Stamina. This is huge, not only for the game play but also for the fun. Without Last Stand, warriors must run 3 stances (Balanced Stance, Berserker's Stance and Endure Pain), because they cannot survive without them.

[Axl.8924]

> @Crossaber.8934 said:

> > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > @Crossaber.8934 said:

> > > 1) is about right, no oppose really.

> > > 2) the whole point of FC is to make use of the skill to absorb damage and strike back, as long as it is trigger, there is no reason not allow a spellbreaker to gain benefit. But it is okay to remove resistance on revenge counter to me.

> > > 3) resistance uptime is fine, unless condi spam is greatly reduced, otherwise it is hurting core warrior more.

> > > 4) since wvw is also pvp, it is acceptable to me

> > >

> > > Smart players already learned how to deal with spellbreaker no matter in pvp or wvw.

> > The FC mechanic scales up with multiple opponents. Spellbreaker is actually stronger in a 1v2 than in a 1v1 as it is easier for him to land FC and become immune to stuns, soft cc, direct and condi damage for a very long amount of time while being able to burst like a thief. He can even ignore corruptions as reapplicating resistance is super easy for him.

> >

> > I found myself losing fights against SBs which I slowly outrotated by avoiding 3 and more FCs, because a few seconds before he'd go down some other player came in and triggered FC which buffed the SB that he could kill both of us.

> >

> > In its current state SB is like a thief that does not need to disengeage for at least 10 seconds while keeping up its pressure. And even after that time he has the tools to pull himself out of combat. Anyone who says this is balanced seriously needs to get good at the game.

> >

>

> So this does sound familiar, _____________ class is overpowered, need to nerf ___________ , ___________, _____________ and _____________.

> I am not saying i cannot beat it, actually i am able to beat this class by _____________ and ______________, so i don't have this L2play issue. But since to beat this class, i need to work extra hard, so please nerf it so that i can beat it without extra effort.

>

> While you know what, my reply actually agree that it is acceptable to nerf FC a bit, i just do not agree with every point you've said.

 

Why not give some other class a mechanic such as necros to counter FC warriors? Someone needs to soft counter them.

 

[Kaga.7629]

> @Axl.8924 said:

> Why not give some other class a mechanic such as necros to counter FC warriors? Someone needs to soft counter them.

 

Necros/Mesmers are already a "counter" to warriors in general

[Axl.8924]

> @Kaga.7629 said:

> > @Axl.8924 said:

> > Why not give some other class a mechanic such as necros to counter FC warriors? Someone needs to soft counter them.

>

> Necros/Mesmers are already a "counter" to warriors in general

 

Really? When i was playing SPvp i was getting destroyed by most classes before pof because i was being kited by rangers thieves guardians and warriors, and now i keep hearing full counter is op so i dunno, maybe make it so that a ranged trap attack doesn't activate full counter, or nerf the cd to have a 20 sec cd or 15 sec cd so its not spammable.

[Loop.8106]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> These would be my suggestions:

>

> **Spellbreaker**

> Full Counter: Radius reduced to 240. Only activates from Direct Attacks. Only triggers Full Counter/Burst traits on successful hit.

> Revenge Counter: Conditions copied reduced to 3. No longer grants Resistance.

> Slow Counter: Duration of Cripple and Slow reduced to 2 seconds.

 

Sounds good

 

> **Defense**

> Thick Skin: Threshhold increased to 90% health. Toughness bonus reduced to 150.

> Last Stand: ICD of Lesser Balanced Stance increased to 60 seconds.

 

I would propose Last Stand being reworked and baselined with the other professions passive stunbreak and LACK OF pulsing stab.

 

> **Strength**

> Reckless Dodge: Also, blinds enemies hit for 3 seconds.

 

Absolutely not. This is already a 2.5-3k unblockable dodge. This is a minor adept trait with close to the same power level as Bound, a grandmaster Trait.

> Brave Stride: Stability gain increased to 3.

 

This, again. Warriors needs to stop getting spoon-fed. EVERY OTHER CLASS needs to work for their stability.

 

> Building Momentum: Also, grants 1 Stability for 3 seconds.

 

Burst skills already gives Adrenal Health stacks as well as doing stupid amounts of damage (at least on core warrior). Last thing they need is having stability on them too.

> Might Makes Right: Healing increased to 150.

 

Go for it.

 

> @ButterPeanut.9746 said:

> > @coro.3176 said:

> > Last Stand is bad design because it promotes skill-less behavior and punishes skillful play.

> >

> > If I see a Warrior charging at me as an Engi, and in the <1s I have to react, I glance at the Warrior's bar and see no stability, glance at my endurance and see that I'm out of dodges, glance at my skill bar and see that my Overcharged Shot knockback is off cooldown, then use the skill to interrupt the Warrior

> > ...

> > Only to have it hit Last Stand - Warrior gets stability and isn't interrupted. I get cc'd and combo'd to death - all because of a trait I couldn't have known the Warrior was running until I tested it.

>

> **All it takes is 1 headshot from a d/p thief to proc Last Stand and then warrior has very little access to stab/stun breaks.**

 

Its the same treatment every other passive stunbreak has. Only the other stunbreaks actually **Stunbreaks** and doesn't avoid the stun all together.

 

>There are strong stun break traits all over, but this one in particular is very easily baited. From a "delaying" a node/pressure perspective, Last Stand is pretty strong, but if they enemy can reliably proc it from range they can just wait out the 10s of stab.

 

10 seconds is an incredible long time in a 1v1 scenario. Couple this with all the other Defensives a warrior can cycle through and you have the reason why we are in this situation right now.

 

> @Hitman.5829 said:

> You are kidding right? Guard is the only class with access to most stability. Do you even play GW2?

Firebrand does have a lot of access to Stability. Both the F3 tome and the mantra elite. Dragonhunters have 5 second on their **75 second cooldown trait** and **4 seconds on their 60 second cd F3**. Core guardians have **4 seconds of stability every 45 seconds.**

 

> Also, why are you complaining about stability on warrior? if you remove stability from warrior, the warrior will become a rag doll, warrior is a melee class for god's sake! Everyone will rag doll the warrior at 1200 range! Is that what you want?

 

So are guardians? Remind me again as to how many Guardians use Scepter. And before you start complaining about Dragonhunters using longbow, think again.

 

[Lazze.9870]

> @Vagrant.7206 said:

> way more powerful than most other passive stunbreakers out there.

 

Way more powerful than any stunbreak trait. It's disgusting and obnoxious.

 

 

[sinject.4607]

> @Juba.8406 said:

> You got a problem with Spellbreakers, OK i get it, that is fine with me.

>

> But why the hell are you nerfing Core Warrior ??!!

>

> Nerf Spellbreaker to the ground for all i care, Anet took years to get Core warrior balanced as of today only to get destroyed because you didn't like SB ?!

 

Core Warrior is entirely the problem, aside from Full Counter *maybe* needing a slightly longer ICD.

 

For example Thief has to take a grandmaster elite spec trait (Bound) to get the same effect Warrior gets from an adept minor trait from a core traitline that does both more damage and is unblockable (Reckless Dodge). Core Warrior is the entire source of SB being "OP" because of how insanely easy it is to play with the Defense traitline, which is basically like Thief's Acrobatics traitline on steroids in terms of passivity and effectiveness. Not to mention how unfair the advantage is of getting both the highest HP pool AND armor pool (which lets you take Demolisher's Amulet for free) along with traits like Spiked Armor and Thick Skin is.

[Axl.8924]

How many skills synergize with FC? you were talking about resist but how many stacks of resist for an example?

[Elegie.3620]

> @sinject.4607 said:

>Not to mention how unfair the advantage is of getting both the highest HP pool AND armor pool (which lets you take Demolisher's Amulet for free) along with traits like Spiked Armor and Thick Skin is.

 

Unfair, eh? It seems to me lots of people conveniently forget (if they ever knew about it) that a warrior does not have access to stealth and teleport, no access to aegis, has little access to blind (1 skill = bow #4), protection (1 skill = traited Full Counter), retaliation (1 trait = Spiked armor) and is mainly played at melee (Full Counter must be played at melee, not sure if many players have noticed what this implies). So yeah, warrior has a high HP pool and heavy armor, guess why... it's the only class that cannot break sight from the enemy and must take aggro head-on.

 

Sometimes I wonder whether you guys PvP experts really multiclass, having taken the time to learn and play spellbreaker, then having true problems facing them, or whether you just play a single class, never tried to roll out a warrior, and die without understanding why, blaming the first trait anyone throws out in the wild on the forum... :(

[Kaga.7629]

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> Sometimes I wonder whether you guys PvP experts really multiclass, having taken the time to learn and play spellbreaker, then having true problems facing them, or whether you just play a single class, never tried to roll out a warrior, and die without understanding why, blaming the first trait anyone throws out in the wild on the forum...

 

All the people complaining about "Fc being on a 8 second cooldown and (blabalbal)" ---> those can be straight up identified as non war players that simply dont give a f!@#$ and just want nerfs..... because that is not the actual recharge on fc. It means they obtained their intel from salt &hearsay instead of actually checking things out like a grown adult would do.

 

I've been a war main since the very beginnings of gw2. i've seen the meta go thru many phases, but the witch hunt is approaching super dumb sayan levels here. The OVERNERFING being bleeted about here impacts core warrior traits and things that have ALREADY been adjusted pre-pof or have been this way** for years**. I mean people are still complaning about defy pain when it's already been nerfed to 2 seconds already ( with the corresponding trait also getting a 50% duration nerf) .... while signet of stone remained untouched ( and is STILL at 6 seconds. On both the auto AND the actual signet).

 

The only way the baddies are gonna be happy is when wars are left with nothing actually useable.

[Shadowflare.2759]

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> > @sinject.4607 said:

> >Not to mention how unfair the advantage is of getting both the highest HP pool AND armor pool (which lets you take Demolisher's Amulet for free) along with traits like Spiked Armor and Thick Skin is.

>

> Unfair, eh? It seems to me lots of people conveniently forget (if they ever knew about it) that a warrior does not have access to stealth and teleport, no access to aegis, has little access to blind (1 skill = bow #4), protection (1 skill = traited Full Counter), retaliation (1 trait = Spiked armor) and is mainly played at melee (Full Counter must be played at melee, not sure if many players have noticed what this implies). So yeah, warrior has a high HP pool and heavy armor, guess why... it's the only class that cannot break sight from the enemy and must take aggro head-on.

>

> Sometimes I wonder whether you guys PvP experts really multiclass, having taken the time to learn and play spellbreaker, then having true problems facing them, or whether you just play a single class, never tried to roll out a warrior, and die without understanding why, blaming the first trait anyone throws out in the wild on the forum... :(

 

Guess what. Ele has basically every single weakness that you listed. Except we have the lowest armor and hp in game, dont have weapon swap (so we can't control range of engagement), no access to resistance, and before weaver came, we had extremely limited access to damage avoidance skills. Even with weaver, the spec we traded a good portion of sustain for, we have low access to stability and gets eaten alive by boon corrupt.

 

Warrior players take so many things for granted it's not even remotely funny.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @Shadowflare.2759 said:

> > @Elegie.3620 said:

> > > @sinject.4607 said:

> > >Not to mention how unfair the advantage is of getting both the highest HP pool AND armor pool (which lets you take Demolisher's Amulet for free) along with traits like Spiked Armor and Thick Skin is.

> >

> > Unfair, eh? It seems to me lots of people conveniently forget (if they ever knew about it) that a warrior does not have access to stealth and teleport, no access to aegis, has little access to blind (1 skill = bow #4), protection (1 skill = traited Full Counter), retaliation (1 trait = Spiked armor) and is mainly played at melee (Full Counter must be played at melee, not sure if many players have noticed what this implies). So yeah, warrior has a high HP pool and heavy armor, guess why... it's the only class that cannot break sight from the enemy and must take aggro head-on.

> >

> > Sometimes I wonder whether you guys PvP experts really multiclass, having taken the time to learn and play spellbreaker, then having true problems facing them, or whether you just play a single class, never tried to roll out a warrior, and die without understanding why, blaming the first trait anyone throws out in the wild on the forum... :(

>

> Guess what. Ele has basically every single weakness that you listed. Except we have the lowest armor and hp in game, dont have weapon swap (so we can't control range of engagement), no access to resistance, and before weaver came, we had extremely limited access to damage avoidance skills. Even with weaver, the spec we traded a good portion of sustain for, we have low access to stability and gets eaten alive by boon corrupt.

>

> Warrior players take so many things for granted it's not even remotely funny.

 

And yet ele was able to dominant pvp for years since launch with so many FLAW until other classes are given powerful traits and removal of celetisal amulet, because classes are designed as a whole, with different strength and weakness in mind. The strong passive of warrior is a design choice to nullify the greatest weakenss of warrior being predictable and highly telegraphed attacks.

 

Try imagine how will you be able to not get inturrupted when casting those long pre cast skill without passive or pulsing stabilty? It is there for a purpose.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Kaga.7629 said:

> I've been a war main since the very beginnings of gw2. i've seen the meta go thru many phases, but the witch hunt is approaching super kitten sayan levels here. The OVERNERFING being bleeted about here impacts core warrior traits and things that have ALREADY been adjusted pre-pof or have been this way** for years**. I mean people are still complaning about defy pain when it's already been nerfed to 2 seconds already ( with the corresponding trait also getting a 50% duration nerf) .... while signet of stone remained untouched ( and is STILL at 6 seconds. On both the auto AND the actual signet).

 

Wait, you're a war main since the beginnings of GW2, and you don't know the difference between **endure** pain and **defy** pain? Ok!

 

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> Unfair, eh? It seems to me lots of people conveniently forget (if they ever knew about it) that a warrior does not have access to stealth and teleport, no access to aegis, has little access to blind (1 skill = bow #4), protection (1 skill = traited Full Counter), retaliation (1 trait = Spiked armor) and is mainly played at melee (Full Counter must be played at melee, not sure if many players have noticed what this implies). So yeah, warrior has a high HP pool and heavy armor, guess why... it's the only class that cannot break sight from the enemy and must take aggro head-on.

 

Warrior is also one of those classes that has access to numerous gap closers, CC's, evading attacks, blocks, and more.

 

The vision I see from ArenaNet is that, unlike guardian, warrior is supposed to be played aggressively to keep your opponent from dealing damage (an emphasis on disabling or interfering with your opponent, rather than relying on defensive abilities or buffs). The current state of skills like last stand, FC, and defy pain is the opposite -- they allow for much more passive/defensive play than what ArenaNet seems to have laid out for the warrior. The end result is an incredible tank that can deal out massive amounts of damage, which is kind of absurd.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @Vagrant.7206 said:

> > @Kaga.7629 said:

> > I've been a war main since the very beginnings of gw2. i've seen the meta go thru many phases, but the witch hunt is approaching super kitten sayan levels here. The OVERNERFING being bleeted about here impacts core warrior traits and things that have ALREADY been adjusted pre-pof or have been this way** for years**. I mean people are still complaning about defy pain when it's already been nerfed to 2 seconds already ( with the corresponding trait also getting a 50% duration nerf) .... while signet of stone remained untouched ( and is STILL at 6 seconds. On both the auto AND the actual signet).

>

> Wait, you're a war main since the beginnings of GW2, and you don't know the difference between **endure** pain and **defy** pain? Ok!

>

> > @Elegie.3620 said:

> > Unfair, eh? It seems to me lots of people conveniently forget (if they ever knew about it) that a warrior does not have access to stealth and teleport, no access to aegis, has little access to blind (1 skill = bow #4), protection (1 skill = traited Full Counter), retaliation (1 trait = Spiked armor) and is mainly played at melee (Full Counter must be played at melee, not sure if many players have noticed what this implies). So yeah, warrior has a high HP pool and heavy armor, guess why... it's the only class that cannot break sight from the enemy and must take aggro head-on.

>

> Warrior is also one of those classes that has access to numerous gap closers, CC's, evading attacks, blocks, and more.

>

> The vision I see from ArenaNet is that, unlike guardian, warrior is supposed to be played aggressively to keep your opponent from dealing damage (an emphasis on disabling or interfering with your opponent, rather than relying on defensive abilities or buffs). The current state of skills like last stand, FC, and defy pain is the opposite -- they allow for much more passive/defensive play than what ArenaNet seems to have laid out for the warrior.

 

Warrior should be played actively with their slow and telegraphed attacks, and thats exactly why they have passive defense on the first place. When you are swing a big and slow weapon, easy interrupt and predictable, you are a big attractive damage sponge, it is where the passive defense come into play. The passive defense traits are there since day one because it is the idea of Anet to balance warrior.

 

It is okay to reduce some of warrior's passive, lets buff sword final thrust to teleport 450 with 1/4 cast time, arc divider replace arcing slice, undo shield bash nerf, rework axe so that it is not easily kited, hammer restore the former damage and a lot more etc....