What's the future of raids in GW2?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> Those whales need someone to play with. If the game has only the casual players that log-in once every century, then the whales won't have anyone to play with and leave. Whales + ACTIVE players is what is important. And by ACTIVE I mean those who log every day, for multiple hours, not that guy who logs once per month.

 

Whales by definition not play much as they spend their money, not their time for in game luxuries. And I don't think raid is where they want to show their good looking skins.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > Those whales need someone to play with. If the game has only the casual players that log-in once every century, then the whales won't have anyone to play with and leave. Whales + ACTIVE players is what is important. And by ACTIVE I mean those who log every day, for multiple hours, not that guy who logs once per month.

>

> Whales by definition not play much as they spend their money, not their time for in game luxuries. And I don't think raid is where they want to show their good looking skins.

 

No but they need someone to show their good looking skins. Raiders don't play only Raids, even to make the Legendary Armor you must spend more time in the open world than inside the Raid itself. A Raider is part of the most active players, among others of course.

[Torolan.5816]

Answering the OPs not biased at all opinion I would say that Anet will fund raids as long as it pays out, then discard the topic quietly on the pile of things that occasionally have bones thrown at to keep the here.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

But seasonal heroes that just came here only to raid are not loyal community.

 

I have several speed runners in my friend list and I can tell you they aren't online for raids most of the time. ^^

Also, my raiding guid is pretty active in GW2: 2 fixed raid evenings - the rest is full with daily fractals, HoT metas, WvW, dailies, events like Halloween, gambling, styling, map exploring. The list goes on and on. And we all spend a good amount of money over the years. I'm more than sure that the assumption the majority of raiders only being there for raiding is wrong, completely. Raids are additional content for most of the playerbase, not an exclusive sidecontent for outsiders.

[STIHL.2489]

> @merforga.4731 said:

> Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

 

Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

 

Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @merforga.4731 said:

> > Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

>

> Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

>

> Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

 

25k * 30$ = 750000$ from buying the expansion, and any expansion after it.

It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for because in your own thread where you ask about what is worth paying for, only thing that appears to be wanted is dungeons and nothing else. I think asking players to pay for Living World expansions would lead to a much higher revenue wouldn't it? More players, more income right?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @merforga.4731 said:

> > Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

>

> Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

>

> Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

 

That's a no-money for Anet as they explained this when people whined about esport budget being 200k USD.

[STIHL.2489]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

 

You can stop right there.. **YOU** and others **LIKE YOU**, are the one saying it, **not me**. I have no issues paying for what I want.

 

Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

>

> You can stop right there.. **YOU** and others **LIKE YOU**, are the one saying it, **not me**. I have no issues paying for what I want.

>

> Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

>

>

 

I never said that Raids are not worth paying for. I have no issues paying for Raids, if everything else in the game becomes paid too. Raids are worth every $ to pay for them, but I'm not gonna pay for Raids when I'm also FORCED to buy an expansion too in order to play, while at the same time other players enjoy their preferred game modes without even that.

Why are PVP, WVW and Fractals players allowed to be freeloaders without even the requirement to buy an expansion to play their content? Only Raids absolutely require an expansion to play, the others can play without it.

There is a difference between Raids being worth paying for, and being ripped-off by freeloaders.

 

And I ask again, because you conveniently skipped it, do you think any other game mode is worth paying for?

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

>

> You can stop right there.. **YOU** and others **LIKE YOU**, are the one saying it, **not me**. I have no issues paying for what I want.

 

It was me who said that actually. Can repeat it too. Raids in their current state are not worth the money if sold as a dlc for an expansion.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

>

> You can stop right there.. **YOU** and others **LIKE YOU**, are the one saying it, **not me**. I have no issues paying for what I want.

>

> Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

>

>

 

I see no reason to pay again for any content I already paid for buying expansion.

[STIHL.2489]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> And I ask again, because you conveniently skipped it, do you think any other game mode is worth paying for?

 

I bought every living story (I tend to take breaks at all the wrong times), so.. Obviously I must think other game modes are worth paying for.

 

As I said, I have no issues paying for what I enjoy.

 

But, you don't see me crying out both sides of my mouth that Living story is awesome and saved the game for me but not wort paying for. If I think something is worth my time, then it is worth my money as well. I'd drop a Hamilton for a fun and engaging dungeon like AC (Arah can bite it), in fact.. on my own question.. I think I would be willing to drop money for additional festivals as well. So.. yah.. no problems at all for me.

 

In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

 

If that works for you.. Kudos.. not the way I live tho. My Hobbies are valuable to me.. and anything of value is worth paying for.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

 

I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

>

> I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

 

Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

 

Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for **more** dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

[TexZero.7910]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

> >

> > I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

>

> Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

>

> Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for **more** dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

 

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

 

It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....

I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

[STIHL.2489]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

> > >

> > > I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

> >

> > Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

> >

> > Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for **more** dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

>

> https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

>

> It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....

> I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

 

You do realize that is a HoT. (Heart of Thorns) advertisement?

 

Never mind the fact that you got that raid, complete and done, with all the trimmings and legendary armor to go with it.

 

The real question here is, Did you miss that I already mentioned that raids were advertised in HoT? Just wondering if you were paying any attention at all to what I typed.. you know when I said..

 

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> Where they advertised like they were in HoT

 

Now... do you have anything like that for PoF?

 

So you know.. you are not just repeating what we all already knew?

[TexZero.7910]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

> > > >

> > > > I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

> > >

> > > Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

> > >

> > > Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for **more** dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

> >

> > https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

> >

> > It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....

> > I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

>

> You do realize that is a HoT. (Heart of Thorns) advertisement? Did you miss that I already mentioned that raids were advertised in HoT? Just wondering if you were paying any attention at all to what I typed.. you know when I said..

>

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > Where they advertised like they were in HoT

>

> Now... do you have anything like that for PoF? So you know.. you are not repeating what we all already knew?

 

Figured you say that was waiting for it.

 

 

Now then why would they even bother talking about raids if they werent coming....and if that wasn't clear enough for you

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7788/unable-to-apply-weakness-to-w1-3-raid-bosses#latest

Again why bother if we arent getting raids as a content release ?

 

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> Figured you say that was waiting for it.

 

Why didn't you just open with what you had..

 

Oh right.. because it was not what I asked for.

 

Feel free to speculate, but unless Raid were directly advertised as part of the PoF expansion, then I'm sorry but you didn't pay for them nor is there any requirement on Anets part to deliver them.

 

You paid for an expansion and you got one.

 

Raids, if they come, are not necessarily part of it at this point anymore, given the raid portal is in Lions Arch, for all we know, all future Raids could be as much a part of the Core Game as Dungeons and Fractals are.

 

yah.. not sure if that would make you feel better or worse.

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion. You can come back to your flawed argumentation when they release new raid and people without PoF will be able to play it.

[Blaeys.3102]

The future of raid rewards will be skins and continued easier access to ascended gear with new stats (including Griever's). I think anything more than that will cause an uproar similar to the one we saw with the lore heavy story in wing four.

 

As far as the release timing, at this point, players need to accept that raids are not a primary feature of the game. They aren't meant for players who hop in and out of the game with long stretches of inactivity in between. They are side content designed to challenge those players who have mastered the game - part of which requires staying sharp and understanding the nuances of their characters. One or two a year - alongside new high level fractals - is plenty.

 

Given their current design philosophy regarding raids, any additional developer resources should go toward other parts of the game (some of which are seriously in need of more attention) where there is greater mass appeal.

 

Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Blaeys.3102 said:

> Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

 

Well PoF created some really huge gaps in performance, I'm saying that the game was perfect before PoF but PoF made things worse. I hope the patch today will tone down some of the over-performing specs while buffing the under-performing ones.

 

At the very least, every elite spec should have at least one game mode that it shines at. Once we get to that point, we can go for multiple viable specs per profession.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Blaeys.3102 said:

> > Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

>

> Well PoF created some really huge gaps in performance, I'm saying that the game was perfect before PoF but PoF made things worse. I hope the patch today will tone down some of the over-performing specs while buffing the under-performing ones.

>

> At the very least, every elite spec should have at least one game mode that it shines at. Once we get to that point, we can go for multiple viable specs per profession.

 

I think in terms of dps at least we need to come back to healthier 30-33k gap from before PoF. Also Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

 

LOL. That is like saying that **Wrath of the Lich King** is really just part of **Burning Crusade**.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

>

> LOL. That is like saying that **Wrath of the Lich King** is really just part of **Burning Crusade**.

 

Last time I checked we were talking about GW2, not WoW.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

> >

> > LOL. That is like saying that **Wrath of the Lich King** is really just part of **Burning Crusade**.

>

> Last time I checked we were talking about GW2, not WoW.

 

Last time I checked, people don't get lobotomized and changed their whole view on MMO's just because they playing a different game. hence all ya begging for Raids to start with. If You all took the mentality that this was GW2 and not WoW. Ya would have embraced the this was a Raidless game and moved on with your life.