PoF areas: Impossible to rest for one second...

[mauried.5608]

One of the bugs this game has , and its not unique to this game is the

"You are in combat." message when there isnt a monster in sight.

You cant find out what you are allegedly in combat with, and the only way out of this mess is to log out and log back in again.

At the least , change the message so that its "you are in combat with Monster XXX."

 

 

[Oglaf.1074]

It triggers flashbacks to how cancerous Orr was before they “nerfed” it. You couldn’t get anywhere with getting a friggin’ anchor with a gazillion years Immobilize thrown at you.

 

The things I hate about PoF:

 

1) Aggro ranges are absurd. No other way to put it.

 

2) Enemies seem to have been given an exclusive damage bonus against mounts that no other area/mobs have. Only takes one or two hits to be demounted it feels like. Combined with point 1 and... yeah. Then there are those *lovely* environmental hazards you can barely see that just pop you from your mount. Yaaaaaaay.

 

 

Imagine if HoT was swamped with those Modrem Snipers that blow you out of the sky any time you went gliding. Every single treetop would have one. Now you’d have the same levels of insanity as PoF.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

It is a bit interesting that some people feel that PoF maps are too empty with regards to mobs, while others think they are too full. I guess it largely depends on what kind of experience you're trying to get out of open world PvE.

 

However, regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, my personal opinion is that the aggro range for enemies in PoF is indeed a bit too far. I do understand that they were trying to introduce some challenge into using mounts in the new areas, but I think those challenges should be more based around navigating the terrain, and less around mobs trying to dismount you every second of the way. I don't think the maps are too full, personally, but the aggro range does certainly make the mobs feel much more oppressive and creates the impression that there's always a lot of enemies regardless of where you go (it doesn't help that every enemy within a mile comes running to you).

 

Ultimately, I think it's completely unnecessary, because mounts are perfectly fun in the older areas, where such aggro mechanics do not exist. Introducing artificial challenge simply for the sake of it doesn't' actually add much to the game, and can often remove some forms of enjoyment for people.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

PoF maps in my opinion are actually fairly balanced and well designed in terms of mob density. I presume most of the people complaining are not using raptor "leap" ability enough or maybe haven't unlocked jackal mount yet.

Personally I have not experienced any problems in finding safe spots, many are near towns, villages, camps or generally next to friendly/neutral NPCs - it's better to look for those if you are struggling.

The "pursuit" distance for mobs on the new maps is certainly greater, but this is to compensate for mounted players. If you notice in core/HoT maps, mobs barely react when a player passes them on a mount, in PoF locations it's important that the environment feels at least a little dangerous, it would be boring if you were able to just leap past all enemies with no reaction or risk.

 

My advice for less experienced players is to pay attention and take a second to check if the place they AFK at is not in the path of a roaming/patrolling mob - usually picking a settlement location or a corner away from the main route is better. Once the jackal mount has been acquired, players are able to train the "advanced evasion" ability which provides multiple dodges making it very easy to avoid combat.

Although I appreciate that some players would prefer to focus on exploration, within an MMORPG, combat it practically inevitable. It would be relatively dull if there was no sense of danger/risk.

[Oglaf.1074]

I haven’t heard anyone complain about PoF maps being empty in terms of mobs. Empty of events and metas, surely. But never mobs. They’re everywhere. I find that hard to believe.

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

> @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

<--SNIP-->

> I am someone who loves to explore, try to climb up where possible, test different ways to go, and farm while doing all that. I also enjoy a lot to observe around and take pictures of what I find nice, to share with guildies.

>

> In PoF, to do that is a hardly possible due to the overcrowding of foes with extra long aggro range, fast respawning and - it seems - no limit as for how far they can follow us, so that running away is very rarely a viable option. At the top of it:

> - The status "in combat" prevents the use of mounts.

> - The status "in combat" prevents map travelling.

> - The status "in combat" is soooo long and at times remain active for no valid reasons...

>

I am long retired now, but in the old days developers called this "checkerboard agro"; what we see in PoF was considered a very amateurish way to introduce challenge in a zone. Instead of creating challenge through zone design that requires thought (puzzle solving) and dedication to a task or mission, "checkerboard agro" basically just makes it impossible to do anything without frequently dying.

Elitists love it because they can always claim that they killed ten champions at the same time with one hand tied behind their back, using a flyswatter, and everything in the zone was easy... what they don't say is that they were part of a large guild running in a huge zerg. It's like the six-year old kid I met last week who had 230 mastery points... sure; he got all of those on his own; right?

HoT and PoF are bad designs; that's all there is to it. Zerg left; zerg right; zerg up the middle... check the Wiki for where you have to go; check the clock for the time of events and HP runs; join the zerg...

What? You actually wanted to play the game? Not an option... join a zerg and buy gems at the store.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> What? You actually wanted to play the game? Not an option... join a zerg and buy gems at the store.

 

A rather negative and bitter sounding summary of your experience, no doubt. Both HoT and PoF were designed to be more challenging than vanilla/core Tyria. I agree there are **some**challenges which are near impossible to solo but then again this is a _multiplayer_ game. If you're after a solo RPG, there are plenty of titles out there, however GW2 requires an element of cooperative gameplay in **some**areas. It's a case of picking what you are able to handle and understanding that you may need a group for other events.

 

As mentioned before, PoF maps require some awareness, playing passively isn't how the game designers intended for people to play. Attempting to simultaneously finish your dinner, watch your favorite TV series, on the phone to your aunt while playing GW2 with one finger probably won't give you the best experience.

 

[Oglaf.1074]

One thing PoF arguably does better than HoT are the Hero Challenges. So far I’ve not encountered one that wasn’t a soloable Veteran (as opposed to HoT’s Champions - dat fuggin frog in VB that just teleports to you an insta-down you, lol).

 

So there’s that at least.

[Ardid.7203]

While it is true the mobs have a huge aggro and respawn quite fast, it is also true that finding safe spots is also easy. You just can't afk without watching, because eventually a mob will pass closer, but in most cases you'll have several minutes of peace if you manage to escape to a clear area. The point is the safe spots are variable: the mobs move around in bigger paths, leaving areas for longer times, but eventually come back anyway.

 

IMO the fundamental factor in the "impossible to rest" problem is having speed access in your build. Explorer builds should ALWAYS have easy access to swiftness, even if you move most of the time using mounts. Because swiftness is the only way to escape mobs when already engaged, and you need this to find rest spots in the new maps.

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > What? You actually wanted to play the game? Not an option... join a zerg and buy gems at the store.

>

> A rather negative and bitter sounding summary of your experience, no doubt. Both HoT and PoF were designed to be more challenging than vanilla/core Tyria. I agree there are **some**challenges which are near impossible to solo but then again this is a _multiplayer_ game. If you're after a solo RPG, there are plenty of titles out there, however GW2 requires an element of cooperative gameplay in **some**areas. It's a case of picking what you are able to handle and understanding that you may need a group for other events.

>

> As mentioned before, PoF maps require some awareness, playing passively isn't how the game designers intended for people to play. Attempting to simultaneously finish your dinner, watch your favorite TV series, on the phone to your aunt while playing GW2 with one finger probably won't give you the best experience.

>

Let me guess... you're one of GW2's elitists, killing ten champions at a time with a hand tied behind your back, naked and with no weapons, using your brilliance and extraordinary _skills_ that nobody else can match...

Have you ever considered that the mundane comments you made aren't exactly anything more than what any neophyte already knows about gaming? Climb down from your self-made pedestal and acknowledge that you aren't God's gift to the world of MMORPGs.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > @"Dreamy Lu.3865" said:

> <--SNIP-->

> > I am someone who loves to explore, try to climb up where possible, test different ways to go, and farm while doing all that. I also enjoy a lot to observe around and take pictures of what I find nice, to share with guildies.

> >

> > In PoF, to do that is a hardly possible due to the overcrowding of foes with extra long aggro range, fast respawning and - it seems - no limit as for how far they can follow us, so that running away is very rarely a viable option. At the top of it:

> > - The status "in combat" prevents the use of mounts.

> > - The status "in combat" prevents map travelling.

> > - The status "in combat" is soooo long and at times remain active for no valid reasons...

> >

> I am long retired now, but in the old days developers called this "checkerboard agro"; what we see in PoF was considered a very amateurish way to introduce challenge in a zone. Instead of creating challenge through zone design that requires thought (puzzle solving) and dedication to a task or mission, "checkerboard agro" basically just makes it impossible to do anything without frequently dying.

> Elitists love it because they can always claim that they killed ten champions at the same time with one hand tied behind their back, using a flyswatter, and everything in the zone was easy... what they don't say is that they were part of a large guild running in a huge zerg. It's like the six-year old kid I met last week who had 230 mastery points... sure; he got all of those on his own; right?

> HoT and PoF are bad designs; that's all there is to it. Zerg left; zerg right; zerg up the middle... check the Wiki for where you have to go; check the clock for the time of events and HP runs; join the zerg...

> What? You actually wanted to play the game? Not an option... join a zerg and buy gems at the store.

 

Instead of everyone who enjoys this content being a lying "elitist" that secretly struggles with the game while claiming to conquer everything with their eyes closed, had you considered the possibility that you may be below the average player in skill? Your perception of difficulty in the expansion maps seems to include everything from meta events down to simply clearing trash enemies during map exploration. Many of the players (including myself!) who share your frustration with "checkerboard aggro" do not do so because they are dying to trash, but because they simply find it annoying to have to clear every enemy within a square mile every time they dismount to pick a flower!

 

In any event, I agree that PoF mob density and aggro range are annoyingly high in places. However, I disagree that the overall difficulty in the expansions is too high. I love the combat in the expansions and enjoy taking on challenges like HoT HP champions and PoF bounty champions alone or in a group. Of course, you don't believe me, but you're in luck! I record videos of the gameplay I enjoy for my youtube channel (I am also six years old and have max masteries!). Please enjoy my latest!

 

 

 

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > What? You actually wanted to play the game? Not an option... join a zerg and buy gems at the store.

> >

> > A rather negative and bitter sounding summary of your experience, no doubt. Both HoT and PoF were designed to be more challenging than vanilla/core Tyria. I agree there are **some**challenges which are near impossible to solo but then again this is a _multiplayer_ game. If you're after a solo RPG, there are plenty of titles out there, however GW2 requires an element of cooperative gameplay in **some**areas. It's a case of picking what you are able to handle and understanding that you may need a group for other events.

> >

> > As mentioned before, PoF maps require some awareness, playing passively isn't how the game designers intended for people to play. Attempting to simultaneously finish your dinner, watch your favorite TV series, on the phone to your aunt while playing GW2 with one finger probably won't give you the best experience.

> >

> Let me guess... you're one of GW2's elitists, killing ten champions at a time with a hand tied behind your back, naked and with no weapons, using your brilliance and extraordinary _skills_ that nobody else can match...

> Have you ever considered that the mundane comments you made aren't exactly anything more than what any neophyte already knows about gaming? Climb down from your self-made pedestal and acknowledge that you aren't God's gift to the world of MMORPGs.

>

 

Perhaps looking into the relevance of your use of "elitist" is something you should consider.

At no point did I mention that _everything_ could be completed without assistance from other players - that is why many events, bounties etc. have the title of "group event". If you're venturing out and aiming to tackle the content alone, you should be aware that there will be a limit to how much can be achieved.

In addition, there were no personal claims made about my own gamplay so your interpretation is completely wrong.

[mindcircus.1506]

Or you know...kill a mob or two.

Challenge/= bad design

[Lexi.1398]

I don't have this issue at all. I'm picking out choice comments that ive seen best represent the general sentiment, not quoting because im lazy.

 

Vabbi/Desolation are pretty organised maps - desolation isn't even on par with tangled depths. If you can't complete desolation efficiently (hearts aside) then you don't know the map very well, in the same way that lots of people complain about TD but they don't know the map very well.

 

I know a pretty good route around desolation that only gets disturbed if harpies happen to kill me by the sand portal by silent vale going south. Vabbi is even more organised, especially so if you have the griffon (the mount the map is made for). Frankly, I have neither map to complain about - if you spend enough time in desolation you realise that it's got a lot more safe spaces than it initially appeared to, and with jackal mastery 4 it becomes a piece of cake to navigate as all risks of getting dismounted vanish so long as you look out for awakened mines in the parts of the map which have them (easily visible assuming you're paying attention + have at least 15 fps) and have a decent mount to use (i'd reccommend skimmer for having the longest dodge for people with issues with avoiding enemies, jackal for those who're used to it it's movements and the pattern of attacks enemies use).

 

Note though, i learnt how to navigate TD from hero point trains, that opportunity doesn't exist in PoF really. The only content which has you follow someone so often is bounty trains, which have a simple enough route that you don't need to spend hours preparing (in total) learning routes to run, most of it is common sense.

 

 

_"Or you know...kill a mob or two. Challenge/= bad design"

"With HoT, as you gained Masteries the maps became easier and easier to travel until eventually the whole expansion became a comfort zone. The problem with PoF is really what the OP describes: rather than getting easier as you learn the ropes it becomes tedious and annoying the more time you spend there. The mounts don't do much to help matters - they're clumsy to use, their skills have negligible impact and the mob density and aggro means you can't deploy them when you need them, unlike gliders which are unaffected by combat."_

 

I disagree myself: I've spent way more time in HoT than PoF, but I still have more complaints about being unable to move around HoT than i do for PoF. Both ex packs are something which need a lot of exploration, especially for safe places.

 

In terms of being unable to mount, there are various vistas, mastery points, hero points etc. where this is entirely intentional (i remember a comment about the mastery point in the sand cave - its either deadhouse or the small palace in desolation, and both of those i believe are intended to be places where you're supposed to clear the enemies first as a part of the challenge, both of these mp are easily obtainable with jackal mastery 4 though.)

 

I'll admit there're a few places - particularly what I call the awakened coridoor on desolation (awakened palace up north all the way to dead house in south) - where it can be hard to get a moment to mount, but i really don't see how this is different to HoT which, again, has basically no safe spaces outside of way points (and even a large portion of those are dangerous) that you can reach without mounts, and HoT's only real "run awayyy!!!" opportunies using the glider exist in verdant brink, outside of VB most glide-to-flee areas that exist give you a several minute run back to where you once were if not longer (such as falling off of certain ledges in TD).

 

If you run around smart in PoF you'll have no issues finding a place to mount up again - even in the aforementioned "awakened coridoor" i've been dismounted and been able to mount again right in the middle of some of the most densely populated areas of it. I'm used to the map though, so i know where to run in most areas where it's a risk if i even need to run to more sucluded areas before I lose aggro (which is rare).

 

Also note: Every other ledge and waypoint is filled with enemies in HoT, i don't know about yall but you can only find a moment of peace in HoT (outside of tarir when meta isn't going on and the first wp in VB) if you have mounts to get to places that that you can't reach without PoF, and being as there are way more hidden tricks to moving around in HoT it's even harder to find the peaceful places. You can't even afk on majority of HoT waypoints (eg all except the first wp in AB (all have enemies that spaw regaurdless of pylon porgress) VB (night time meta endaers every wp except first), DS only safe during meta. only safe wps are in TD and even that's not a constant.) unlike PoF, lol.

[DMO.4158]

Sorry I disagree. As a new player I find it fun that there is some danger and I can be killed in the open world.

 

You want a Vista or a hidden chest? Fight for it. Makes getting there more rewarding imo.

 

Coming from other mmos where you reach max level and the game world is an obsolete cake walk, I find gw2 refreshing.

 

Also I'm fairly new and I have zero problems with pof maps. I've beat the story on my guardian almost with thief and just started a ranger.

3 wildly different classes none of which I've had trouble with. In fact I think open world and story content is TOO easy.

 

These are endgame zones. They should feel dangerous. And if you want to afk go to town?

[Biff.5312]

For the most part I like it the way it is. However, it would be nice to find more spots where you can take a moment. I often get frustrated because I can't look at my inventory or check the map without getting attacked. And in some areas you literally can't even stop moving or you'll get mobbed, making them virtually inaccessible to anyone not in a group.

 

I wouldn't want them to make it a passive area, but a few safe ledges/pinnacles you can reach to take a breather would be good.

[Maikimaik.1974]

It's nothing but realistic.

[preacher.9370]

all too often, and it annoys the hell out of me, i get some crap chasing me, i stop for whatever reason, then the crap hits me once and goes away. like really?!

[Stevieboy.4192]

For me, it is going to a WP and being downed at said WP before the map has loaded.

Why do the WP's have enemies on them?

If I go AFK in an area full of enemies then, yeah, I should expect to get a kicking...

Not mapping to a WP, that's just wrong...

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Stevieboy.4192" said:

> For me, it is going to a WP and being downed at said WP before the map has loaded.

> Why do the WP's have enemies on them?

> If I go AFK in an area full of enemies then, yeah, I should expect to get a kicking...

> Not mapping to a WP, that's just wrong...

 

Yeah, that does seem a little unnecessary. But at least you're already at a waypoint!

 

For me, the issue is that the terrain is designed for mounts, but the aggro range and mob density makes it annoyingly difficult to swap mounts. You are frequently forced to clear a fairly large area of enemies in order to get out of combat and swap to the appropriate mount. This is much less of an issue in HoT or core maps, which were not designed with mounts in mind.

 

**Suggestion: New Mount Skill**

 

**Dire Need

Allows the player to mount in combat. However, engage abilities are disabled until the player goes out of combat and the mount is summoned with 0 endurance and 1s immobilize. This skill refreshes once the player goes out of combat.**

 

My thinking is that it can't be used as a weapon with engage abilities disabled and 0 endurance plus 1s immobilize will make it fairly difficult to use to escape heavy fire. However, it does give players a chance to mount up and escape. I expect that, in practice, players will use this skill to reduce the amount of clearing necessary. While it may not be a great idea to mount up in the middle of a pile of enemies, you could easily clear a small area and then attempt to mount even if there are still enemies keeping you in combat. Ultimately, it should make PoF less annoying without making it easier.

 

 

 

[Stevieboy.4192]

I may be at a WP but it's the one I just got killed at and now some of my armour is broken... ;)

Also just noticed the it is a 'multiplayer game' sentence somewhere above.

Then where is everybody then? I been running around PoF, seen hardly anybody.

VB couldn't get a T4 when events there were a daily...

[Noa.7490]

The problem with GW2 is that they made it the same scale as GW1, so the maps are unfortunately small and Anet thought it would be a good idea to jam pack 'em with enemies every five feet. That's their idea of us having fun.

[Stevieboy.4192]

The best place to AFK is Divinity's Reach where 90% of the player base hangs out...

[Warkind.6745]

A few days ago while doing the dwarven collection axe puzzle I got knocked off my Springer and fell down to the second level. But since the imps on the top level were aggro'd I was kept in combat and had to run around fighting the slimes on the bottom. They respawned non-stop and I got stuck in a really annoying imp-slime aggro cycle until I'd cleared the slimes multiple times and was able to get out of combat for a few seconds.

 

Some areas could definitely use some tuning down, because that's not challenging or fun. Just tedious.

[Lindaklingomat.1253]

I think that the aggro range is too large as well, it is hard to run from a to b in a small group, without dismounts or deaths. Sure, I can survive just fine in my own (that is not really the point though), but my friends I play with that are not used to playing games have a lot of problems.