Why can mesmers insta-down people?

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Kamara.4187 said:

> I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

 

I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

[Kamara.4187]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

>

> I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

 

Thank you for sharing that with me :). I just watched a few of the youtubes and I was pretty blown away by its power. My poor DH got munched by that build a few times. It survived the first attack but went down after a while :)

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Kamara.4187 said:

> > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

> >

> > I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

>

> Thank you for sharing that with me :). I just watched a few of the youtubes and I was pretty blown away by its power. My poor DH got munched by that build a few times. It survived the first attack but went down after a while :)

 

Ironically, Dragonhunter counter Full Glass shatter Mesmer.

[Kirin.7306]

> @madamred.1463 said:

> just be more alert or rune a bit more toughness

 

they cut through tougness like a hot knife through butter tho. same with dagger thieves.

[Arzurag.7506]

> @Vambrace.8675 said:

> I think the common theme of frustration comes from folks that feel one shotting should not be an option for anyone. Many people want the chance to make a mistake or 2 and have a chance... even if you lose because the other player was a bit better.

>

> When you introduce a system where a player can be decimated unless they have super twitch reflexes the complaints are gonna happen.

>

> If you are killing the majority of players you attack without any return damage within the first few seconds... you have to know deep down you are rolling a broken spec....

>

 

 

So much this^^

[Kumouta.4985]

A deadeye can just stealth for half a minute (i cannot throw around AoEs to hit him while he's stealthed for so long; i'm wasting cds and cannot just geuss where he went; there is no counterplay here, don't pretend there is) and then he'll ACTUALLY oneshot anyone. Not some combo you can avoid if you dodge after the first half of a milisecond, but just a straight up oneshot. I tried going full toughness and then he just does some other pew pew skill and i die or he stealths again immediately.

Imo deadeye is worse than mesmer, but both are stupid for wvw/pvp.

[takatsu.9416]

I just tested a full burst with an ele. That one shot ele build is real. And it hits way harder and faster than power mesmer. I could only barely brush against the same kind of effect by using food and full glass traits and gear. He was not on full glass gear. Mesmer on paper and base stats is not as strong as most other classes. The one shot from stealth trick is nothing but a trick. If an opponent has been aware of the mesmer running up and then popping their 3 second stealth not from too far away or just being alert in general ready to pop an evade or blocks, they wouldn't have a problem. I have only bursted a very few people honestly. Most avoid half the damage and it's purely the full power stats that can manage to put on enough pressure to win a fight. Mesmer can only stay alive by using their evades and stealth and clone tricks. That's all there is to survive if we want to put out that kind of power damage. A LOT of classes can one shot. And a LOT can also get away with it or die trying just like everyone else.

[takatsu.9416]

Btw I just saw this video, while this is highlighting wins, this is a much more realistic reflection of play as a power mirage minus all the deaths of course. Also the one shot bursts are much rarer in proportion than this. Also reminds me of all the times I practiced against spellbreaker roamers in guild hall arenas in the beginning when SB seemed difficult to deal with but quickly learned to confidently kite. It's a lot of fights just as a power class trying to pressure an opponent. But also note that some opponents in these videos seem rather squishy, I encounter many that dent much less quickly

 

 

 

 

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @Kamara.4187 said:

> I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

I play a mirage that can pretty much insta-kill glass and I fought a warrior the other day I couldnt get below 75% hp before he had outsustained and killed me (the fight lasted several minutes).

 

That was a stock warrior. And it happened after I had roflstomped a spellbreaker.

 

Many of the old builds remain crazy.

[Nocturnal Lunacy.8563]

> @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

>

> Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

>

> Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

>

> Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

 

People that run these types of builds are usually too scared to fight you head on and the only enjoyment they get is to be toxic to other players cuz they feel so toxic themselves. After all, if you lack any real skill then use whatever overpowered and unbalanced options available. LIke the vault spamming thieves, the constant invulnerable warrior with heal sig, the condi spamming necro etc.

[Nocturnal Lunacy.8563]

> @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > @Grebcol.5984 said:

> > Funny that people now complain about 1Shottie Mesmer because that build exist since months.

> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I

> > In WvWvW it is even more lul and it getting more popular now.

> > Here the one i think most saw

> >

>

> First video thief wearing zerk instead of marauder.

> Cleary legit.

>

>

 

lol balouga prob the biggest piece of ..... in this game.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said:

> People that run these types of builds are usually too scared to fight you head on

People that dont run these types of builds are typically too scared to leave the zerg, so it balances out nicely.

[LetoII.3782]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > > I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

> > >

> > > I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

> >

> > Thank you for sharing that with me :). I just watched a few of the youtubes and I was pretty blown away by its power. My poor DH got munched by that build a few times. It survived the first attack but went down after a while :)

>

> Ironically, Dragonhunter counter Full Glass shatter Mesmer.

 

Nop it's more either/or

Full counter implies an advantage, like DH has against teef

[apharma.3741]

> @LetoII.3782 said:

> > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > > > I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

> > > >

> > > > I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

> > >

> > > Thank you for sharing that with me :). I just watched a few of the youtubes and I was pretty blown away by its power. My poor DH got munched by that build a few times. It survived the first attack but went down after a while :)

> >

> > Ironically, Dragonhunter counter Full Glass shatter Mesmer.

>

> Nop it's more either/or

> Full counter implies an advantage, like DH has against teef

 

DH counters mesmer pretty hard, if the DH saw the mesmer they can use F3 or shelter to block 60-70% of the shatter burst, F1 the mesmer and they’re dead as they can’t stealth. A glass mesmer or any mesmer that could one shot a marauder DH will take 2.5-3k from the auto attack LB alone, traps, F1 pull, smite condition (DH will have vuln from unblockable mirror blade) and a lot of other skills can essentially burst down the mesmer. In a protracted fight they cleave clones far better than most classes with procession of blades, sword and even most LB attacks will annihilate clones. Only the phantasms might live longer on shield phantasms but even they die quite easily and that’s assuming your part of the 90% of the population that never dodges the shield phantasms summon.

[coglin.1496]

> @potatocity.6470 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > With spellbreakers and scourges running around I think we have bigger problems than mesmers in wvw. I have never been one shot by a mesmer on wvw. If someone run full zerker schoolar mesmer they would still need to waste 2/3 utilities to stealth, teleport to melee range and produce 3 clones to shatter on you. If that fails they are dead.

>

> Necros are the least concern anyone should have about wvw. i dont even play necro and i feel bad for them. nerf,after nerf after ,nerf but yet you have the immortal warrior running around taking on 5 people at once with little to know problem and anets love child theif that they have yet to hot fix the one shot dead eye mechanics . with out a doubt main issue at hand is spell broken

 

Yeah, because necros are so unwanted and uneeded in WvW.

[Solori.6025]

 

> @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

>

> Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

>

> Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

>

> Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

 

Does that mean you also don't like the ele build and want it nerfed too ? Cause I havent seen you post about it either?

>

[Kyon.9735]

> @Solori.6025 said:

>

> > @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> > Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

> >

> > Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

> >

> > Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

> >

> > Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

>

> Does that mean you also don't like the ele build and want it nerfed too ? Cause I havent seen you post about it either?

> >

 

You don't defend a broken build by setting another broken build as an example. And you can't even roam with that kind of weaver build for God's sake nor does it have any defensive capabilities that Mesmer has.

 

And yes I don't think one shot builds deserve any place in PvP or WvW, even a one trick pony full zerk no defense Weaver gimmick one shot build that only works in zerg blobs

needs to go.

[LetoII.3782]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> > @LetoII.3782 said:

> > > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > > > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > > > > @Kamara.4187 said:

> > > > > > I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta?

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not exactly sure what sigils it use since I'm usually lazy and play the same sigils in both weapon sets. But the build is somenthing along these lines: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8fnELD1ohFpBmpBMMjlTDzfBGBzgkBgFwypcEsCSAA-jVRBABUq+zV7PK/MTJIe6GA4BAEA4A48zz8mHc+5nf+5nXzP/8zP/8zP/8zLFQEjBA-w

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for sharing that with me :). I just watched a few of the youtubes and I was pretty blown away by its power. My poor DH got munched by that build a few times. It survived the first attack but went down after a while :)

> > >

> > > Ironically, Dragonhunter counter Full Glass shatter Mesmer.

> >

> > Nop it's more either/or

> > Full counter implies an advantage, like DH has against teef

>

> DH counters mesmer pretty hard, if the DH saw the mesmer they can use F3 or shelter to block 60-70% of the shatter burst, F1 the mesmer and they’re dead as they can’t stealth. A glass mesmer or any mesmer that could one shot a marauder DH will take 2.5-3k from the auto attack LB alone, traps, F1 pull, smite condition (DH will have vuln from unblockable mirror blade) and a lot of other skills can essentially burst down the mesmer. In a protracted fight they cleave clones far better than most classes with procession of blades, sword and even most LB attacks will annihilate clones. Only the phantasms might live longer on shield phantasms but even they die quite easily and that’s assuming your part of the 90% of the population that never dodges the shield phantasms summon.

 

Yes, in a protracted fight the DH will win.

But the Mesmer can avoid this by one-shotting the DH from stealth before he even realizes there's a fight.

 

I stand by my statement

[Solori.6025]

> @Kyon.9735 said:

> > @Solori.6025 said:

> >

> > > @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> > > Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

> > >

> > > Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

> > >

> > > Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

> > >

> > > Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

> >

> > Does that mean you also don't like the ele build and want it nerfed too ? Cause I havent seen you post about it either?

> > >

>

> You don't defend a broken build by setting another broken build as an example. And you can't even roam with that kind of weaver build for God's sake nor does it have any defensive capabilities that Mesmer has.

>

> And yes I don't think one shot builds deserve any place in PvP or WvW, even a one trick pony full zerk no defense Weaver gimmick one shot build that only works in zerg blobs

> needs to go.

 

I'm just wondering why I don't see more post from you asking for other broken things to be put in line, yet you targeted mesmer. I wonder why?

 

You're also wrong,

People roam with builds capable of doing this type of damage on an ele all the time

( and it makes me wonder if you roam or not because I see people running this often in WvW)

 

for example, even in spvp

 

FA ele is able to burst people down, in an environment of controlled variables.

 

Yet no one, including you, talks about it. Why?

(also imagine the insane damage it does in WvW with the extra buffs)

 

thieves can still backstab you coming out of stealth for 15k

 

Where is your thread about it?

 

I'm honestly curious, why all of a sudden, after this combo has been in game for a little over a year, all of a sudden.

People start pointing fingers at it?

 

What class do you play that has led you to be this vindictive?

I honestly hope it isn't warrior

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Solori.6025 said:

> I'm honestly curious, why all of a sudden, after this combo has been in game for a little over a year, all of a sudden.

> People start pointing fingers at it?

 

Because Mirage gave defensive tools Mesmer didn't had before. It reduced the risk of playing full glass, while even making the entire shatter combo easier to do with the addition of Jaunt and Self Deception.

[Solori.6025]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @Solori.6025 said:

> > I'm honestly curious, why all of a sudden, after this combo has been in game for a little over a year, all of a sudden.

> > People start pointing fingers at it?

>

> Because Mirage gave defensive tools Mesmer didn't had before. It reduced the risk of playing full glass, while even making the entire shatter combo easier to do with the addition of Jaunt and Self Deception.

 

the addition of jaunt gave the mesmer which has a static dodge the ability to move in the omni directional paths that normal dodge would have originally have let you.

I wouldn't really call that defense

You actually lose defense when compared to mirage and chrono

 

You lose a block ( double if you get hit)

double ( or triple if you take the signet) distort from your shatters

and a double ( triple or quadrople depending on the situation) stun.

 

The sustainability of a chrono actually outweighs the mirage by quite a bit

 

What mirage brought was a sword leap that lets you run away a lot easier, that I wont debate as it's already been proven.

But the defensive tools it got is actually less

 

 

[Velran.1052]

An actual one shot, From perma stealth (BP+bound), That has no animation. On my mirage in WvW. You people cant deal with 3 seconds of stealth and a glowing sword flying at you but this is okay? (and that's even without pulm, which would have probably have hit for around 5-6k)

Meanwhile mirage is somehow one shotting guardians "with no animation". Do you even read your own posts?

 

 

 

[Kyon.9735]

> @Solori.6025 said:

> > @Kyon.9735 said:

> > > @Solori.6025 said:

> > >

> > > > @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> > > > Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

> > > >

> > > > Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

> > > >

> > > > Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

> > > >

> > > > Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

> > >

> > > Does that mean you also don't like the ele build and want it nerfed too ? Cause I havent seen you post about it either?

> > > >

> >

> > You don't defend a broken build by setting another broken build as an example. And you can't even roam with that kind of weaver build for God's sake nor does it have any defensive capabilities that Mesmer has.

> >

> > And yes I don't think one shot builds deserve any place in PvP or WvW, even a one trick pony full zerk no defense Weaver gimmick one shot build that only works in zerg blobs

> > needs to go.

>

> I'm just wondering why I don't see more post from you asking for other broken things to be put in line, yet you targeted mesmer. I wonder why?

>

> You're also wrong,

> People roam with builds capable of doing this type of damage on an ele all the time

> ( and it makes me wonder if you roam or not because I see people running this often in WvW)

>

> for example, even in spvp

>

>

> FA ele is able to burst people down, in an environment of controlled variables.

>

> Yet no one, including you, talks about it. Why?

> (also imagine the insane damage it does in WvW with the extra buffs)

>

> thieves can still backstab you coming out of stealth for 15k

>

> Where is your thread about it?

>

> I'm honestly curious, why all of a sudden, after this combo has been in game for a little over a year, all of a sudden.

> People start pointing fingers at it?

>

> What class do you play that has led you to be this vindictive?

> I honestly hope it isn't warrior

 

What are you saying? I just said **all** similar builds need to go which literally includes all classes in case you don't understand.

 

Also, you posted a **SWORD/DAGGER WvW** video in which I said it's not even viable for roaming. Now you use a SCEPTER/FOCUS **structured PvP video** as an example wherein only Warrior uses an amulet with Toughness in its meta build. Heck, core FA Ele is even more used and viable than FA Weaver in sPvP.

 

Are you that scared for one shot builds to be removed that you can't even understand the context of what I said? **One shot builds need to go regardless of class**.

[VaaCrow.3076]

> @Velran.1052 said:

> An actual one shot, From perma stealth (BP+bound), That has no animation. On my mirage in WvW. You people cant deal with 3 seconds of stealth and a glowing sword flying at you but this is okay? (and that's even without pulm, which would have probably have hit for around 5-6k)

> Meanwhile mirage is somehow one shotting guardians "with no animation". Do you even read your own posts?

>  

>

>

 

these people are complaining because they are the type of person that cannot adapt and over come, point out flaws in their arguments is pointless because they only see what they want to see.

[Solori.6025]

> @VaaCrow.3076 said:

> > @Velran.1052 said:

> > An actual one shot, From perma stealth (BP+bound), That has no animation. On my mirage in WvW. You people cant deal with 3 seconds of stealth and a glowing sword flying at you but this is okay? (and that's even without pulm, which would have probably have hit for around 5-6k)

> > Meanwhile mirage is somehow one shotting guardians "with no animation". Do you even read your own posts?

> >  

> >

> >

>

> these people are complaining because they are the type of person that cannot adapt and over come, point out flaws in their arguments is pointless because they only see what they want to see.

 

Facts