A "don't waypoint when dead" fee?

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

> >

> > TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> > Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> > Being dead is the same as being afk

>

> So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

>

> Gotcha.

>

> No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

 

Lets see, buying an 80 scroll/WPs doesn't involve leeching off of people, and they paid for the convenience. The fact they bought these does not negatively impact anyone, and it supports the game for everyone. Meanwhile, intentionally staying dead is an inconvenience to everyone, gets you rewards you didn't earn, and when enough people do this can cause events to fail. I'm not even sure why anyone would defend leeching off of others, they aren't paying someone to be carried, they are outright leeching and as such shouldn't even be rewarded. If you're going to deal 0 dps, then at least just get toughness/vit and heal everyone.

 

 

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > @Khisanth.2948 said:

> >

> > The person hanging back is providing minimal contribution but still more than the dead person. While those 5 people are reviving the dead person the dead person is effectively doing negative damage that would make it worse than leeching.

>

> The "negative damage" is compensated by having the dead come back faster than using a waypoint. That is bonus damage that wouldn't otherwise be had.

 

It actually takes less time to WP and run back in most cases, and even more so if you own mounts. Reviving also comes with risks, people often die reviving a fully dead person.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Yamazuki.6073 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > > > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

> > >

> > > TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> > > Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> > > Being dead is the same as being afk

> >

> > So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

> >

> > Gotcha.

> >

> > No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

>

> Lets see, buying an 80 scroll/WPs doesn't involve leeching off of people, and they paid for the convenience. The fact they bought these does not negatively impact anyone, and it supports the game for everyone. Meanwhile, intentionally staying dead is an inconvenience to everyone, gets you rewards you didn't earn.

 

Oh you mean how people who bought season1 gamble boxes GOT REWARDS THEY DIDN'T EARN?!

 

People paid for the game, they paid for the ability to die and not wp.

 

ALso nice sidewind. The operative argument was "active play" not "negative impact".

 

Don't be a sore un-winner.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> ALso nice sidewind. The operative argument was "active play" not "negative impact".

 

I don't know what you are on about. Staying dead = not playing.

Buying boosters, gamble boxes or any other thing like that is still playing the game.

You click a button, get what the reward gives you, go back to playing the game.

This isn't even an argument

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > ALso nice sidewind. The operative argument was "active play" not "negative impact".

>

> I don't know what you are on about. Staying dead = actively sitting at keyboard

> Buying boosters, gamble boxes or any other thing like that is bypassing dozens of hours of gameplay

> You click a button, get what the reward you didn't deserve gives you, go back to playing the game.

> This isn't even an argument

 

You are very good at being sneaky. This is the 3rd time you actively avoid directly making an argument on an established point.

 

The very first thing you based your position on was "active gameplay". Then you defended boost and unlock, inactive gameplay. This is not a matter of opinion, the boost and unlock eliminates "active" gameplay from the time you double click to activate till the time the server changes to reflect your new status. Seconds. In seconds. It gives you something normally requiring dozens of hours at least without requiring you to play at all. This is not opinion. It is fact.

 

You are a hypocrite and now you are trying to hush this under the carpet by inserting inrelated arguments.

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @Yamazuki.6073 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > > > > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

> > > >

> > > > TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> > > > Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> > > > Being dead is the same as being afk

> > >

> > > So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

> > >

> > > Gotcha.

> > >

> > > No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

> >

> > Lets see, buying an 80 scroll/WPs doesn't involve leeching off of people, and they paid for the convenience. The fact they bought these does not negatively impact anyone, and it supports the game for everyone. Meanwhile, intentionally staying dead is an inconvenience to everyone, gets you rewards you didn't earn.

>

> Oh you mean how people who bought season1 gamble boxes GOT REWARDS THEY DIDN'T EARN?!

>

> People paid for the game, they paid for the ability to die and not wp.

>

> ALso nice sidewind. The operative argument was "active play" not "negative impact".

>

> Don't be a sore un-winner.

>

 

You buy a level 80 scroll so you can play content at level 80. You stay dead and you're unable to play and are alt tabbed watching videos. Gee, I wonder which person is playing the game and which person is intentionally leeching off of people for rewards they did not work for or paid for. Even if you want to take "active play" literally, you have to actively go through the gem store to purchase your gems, then actively scroll through the store to buy it, then actively purchase it, actively receive said items, actively use the item and load SW, then actively talk to the npc, and actively go through the extra items and then actively play the game like a normal human being because the level 80 boost doesn't include scripting/botting software to farm for you. Meanwhile, receiving rewards from events you didn't help complete due to being dead involves not being at your computer, tabbed out of the game, or being a spectator; none of these are active interactions with the game.

 

By the way, if you PAY for something you EARNED it; if you sat around and let others do it for you, you didn't. If you want to complain about pay for convenience, I suggest you create your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

[Shikigami.4013]

> @Cleopatra.4068 said:

> People whining about "leechers" makes me want to go kill my character on purpose at events and refuse to WP, just to annoy them.

 

People using "whining" as synonym for every kind of negative criticism or even just suggestions for things to be changed make me want to block them.

People who enjoy annoying other people do the same. My blocklist just leveled up.

 

As for the topic, I would welcome a dramatically shorter timer to remove participation in any running event when the character is fully dead. Lying around for more than a minute or two should end it while waypointing and running back should restart the regular timer which usually is enough time to get back. And if someone really has no waypoint anywhere near the event he has lost rewards for one single event, and now knows that you should try to get waypoints before crossing a whole map in a straight line and then do an event at the other side.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

And again and again people have given you many reasons as to why someone would just lay dead.

 

50% of the time it is pure laziness, yes. But so what?! They wanna be lazy, they paid for that. They paid for pixels and they will get them.

 

You say they don't deserve rewards? Sure I'll agree there, like you said, they didn't do the event and just layer there. So then lets take away all season 1 rewards from people who bought s1 boxes. *they didn't do the event*.

 

Nice double standards you keep walking into.

 

At the end of the day, all events in ALL of guild wars 2 have NO CONSEQUENCE. There has been NO event since living world s1 that isn't running 80 times a day every day forever.

 

You failed an event? Whoopdiiidooo, try again in 20 min. The is NO SCARCITY AND NO PRESSURE EVER ANYMORE.

 

Nothing in this game is final anymore, you have infinity chances. Why are you so upset by dead pixels in a game where there is almost zero chance you will ever miss anything.

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> The very first thing you based your position on was "active gameplay". Then you defended boost and unlock, inactive gameplay. This is not a matter of opinion, the boost and unlock eliminates "active" gameplay from the time you double click to activate till the time the server changes to reflect your new status. Seconds. In seconds. It gives you something normally requiring dozens of hours at least without requiring you to play at all. This is not opinion. It is fact.

 

This is my last time repeating: staying dead = not playing, that's indisputable.

Using an unlock = actively playing, not inactive gameplay. You click on it then go back to play, there is NO inactivity when you use an unlock, that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. The unlock is not inactive play, you don't stand still afk while the unlock is doing things for you. The unlock allows you to **skip** content, but it's still active play, if you cannot tell the difference between skipping, actively playing and not playing then I can't help you there. But it's not rocket science.

 

You are the one giving unrelated arguments here, comparing apples to oranges.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Yamazuki.6073 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @Yamazuki.6073 said:

> > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > > > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > > > > > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

> > > > >

> > > > > TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> > > > > Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> > > > > Being dead is the same as being afk

> > > >

> > > > So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

> > > >

> > > > Gotcha.

> > > >

> > > > No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

> > >

> > > Lets see, buying an 80 scroll/WPs doesn't involve leeching off of people, and they paid for the convenience. The fact they bought these does not negatively impact anyone, and it supports the game for everyone. Meanwhile, intentionally staying dead is an inconvenience to everyone, gets you rewards you didn't earn.

> >

> > Oh you mean how people who bought season1 gamble boxes GOT REWARDS THEY DIDN'T EARN?!

> >

> > People paid for the game, they paid for the ability to die and not wp.

> >

> > ALso nice sidewind. The operative argument was "active play" not "negative impact".

> >

> > Don't be a sore un-winner.

> >

>

> You buy a level 80 scroll so you can play content at level 80. You stay dead and you're unable to play and are alt tabbed watching videos. Gee, I wonder which person is playing the game and which person is intentionally leeching off of people for rewards they did not work for or paid for. Even if you want to take "active play" literally, you have to actively go through the gem store to purchase your gems, then actively scroll through the store to buy it, then actively purchase it, actively receive said items, actively use the item and load SW, then actively talk to the npc, and actively go through the extra items and then actively play the game like a normal human being because the level 80 boost doesn't include scripting/botting software to farm for you. Meanwhile, receiving rewards from events you didn't help complete due to being dead involves not being at your computer, tabbed out of the game, or being a spectator; none of these are active interactions with the game.

>

> By the way, if you PAY for something you EARNED it; if you sat around and let others do it for you, you didn't. If you want to complain about pay for convenience, I suggest you create your own thread instead of hijacking this one.

 

Billy PAID for university education. Even though he was hungover every day and failed his exams he still EARNED his degree.

 

Nice one buddy.

 

As for the first line, again what happened between activating your 80 boos and being 80? Nothing. You skipped MANY hours of normally required play. You did not play to get to 80. You skipped having to play the game.

 

And by YOUR own example, the dead person lying on the floor IS playing the game, they are typing in chat, cleaning inventory, looking at guild panel.

 

Surely this is active!!! They have to actively go into inventory panel.

 

Thank you. We are in agreement noq that dead players are actively playing the game.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > The very first thing you based your position on was "active gameplay". Then you defended boost and unlock, inactive gameplay. This is not a matter of opinion, the boost and unlock eliminates "active" gameplay from the time you double click to activate till the time the server changes to reflect your new status. Seconds. In seconds. It gives you something normally requiring dozens of hours at least without requiring you to play at all. This is not opinion. It is fact.

>

> This is my last time repeating: staying dead = not playing, that's indisputable.

> Using an unlock = actively playing, not inactive gameplay. You click on it then go back to play, there is NO inactivity when you use an unlock, that's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. The unlock is not inactive play, you don't stand still afk while the unlock is doing things for you. The unlock allows you to **skip** content, but it's still active play, if you cannot tell the difference between skipping, actively playing and not playing then I can't help you there. But it's not rocket science.

>

> You are the one giving unrelated arguments here, comparing apples to oranges.

 

I already caught you in being a weasel. It's too late.

 

And like it was so generously pointed out to me, dead players are actively playing by physically manipulating the mouse and keyboard to utilize this game's UI.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

Instead of taxing players. How about Anet fix their preposterous scaling system. When players die the scaling should go down. The fault lies with Anet.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> And like it was so generously pointed out to me, dead players are actively playing by physically manipulating the mouse and keyboard to utilize this game's UI.

 

Now I know you are joking and run out of arguments, not that you had any to begin with.

Learn the difference between skipping content and inactive/active playing.

Try to compare apples with apples and not compare with oranges.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> Instead of taxing players. How about Anet fix their preposterous scaling system. When players die the scaling should go down. The fault lies with Anet.

 

The question is why is it so problematic to use a waypoint when you are dead? Why aren't people using it? Is 2s such a high price?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > And like it was so generously pointed out to me, dead players are actively playing by physically manipulating the mouse and keyboard to utilize this game's UI.

>

> Now I know you are joking and run out of arguments, not that you had any to begin with.

> Learn the difference between skipping content and inactive/active playing.

> Try to compare apples with apples and not compare with oranges.

 

I was only using his exact measure for activity. Funny how you like to omit context. Wonder why.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > And like it was so generously pointed out to me, dead players are actively playing by physically manipulating the mouse and keyboard to utilize this game's UI.

> >

> > Now I know you are joking and run out of arguments, not that you had any to begin with.

> > Learn the difference between skipping content and inactive/active playing.

> > Try to compare apples with apples and not compare with oranges.

>

> I was only using his exact measure for activity. Funny how you like to omit context. Wonder why.

 

But not mine, yet you responded to me. Wonder why.

You still haven't explained why you think a booster is not active playing.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Dashingsteel.3410 said:

> > Instead of taxing players. How about Anet fix their preposterous scaling system. When players die the scaling should go down. The fault lies with Anet.

>

> The question is why is it so problematic to use a waypoint when you are dead? Why aren't people using it? Is 2s such a high price?

 

Why is it so problematic to ressurect dead players? Why aren't you doing it? Is 20 seconds of your time such a high price?

 

@"Dashingsteel.3410" gave us a perfectly sound solution that fixes the problem for all parties involved, and you just ignored it to keep on your argument.

 

You don't care about dead people scaling up events.

You just don't like players who don't wp and want to punish them.

 

Thia isn't about scaling.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > And like it was so generously pointed out to me, dead players are actively playing by physically manipulating the mouse and keyboard to utilize this game's UI.

> > >

> > > Now I know you are joking and run out of arguments, not that you had any to begin with.

> > > Learn the difference between skipping content and inactive/active playing.

> > > Try to compare apples with apples and not compare with oranges.

> >

> > I was only using his exact measure for activity. Funny how you like to omit context. Wonder why.

>

> But not mine, yet you responded to me. Wonder why.

Because it is applicable to you as well, you prefer me to tailor reply individuals on an individual basis? Can you not handle having read multiple posts that converge?

 

>You still haven't explained why you think a booster is not active playing.

 

I actually did, it would helping you read posts that don't ONLY directly quote you.

[Healix.5819]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> You say they don't deserve rewards? Sure I'll agree there, like you said, they didn't do the event and just layer there. So then lets take away all season 1 rewards from people who bought s1 boxes. *they didn't do the event*.

 

Boxes are paid content, whereas leeching is exploiting the lack of a proper contribution system while forcing other players to do their work for them, if they stick around to scale up the event.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> Why is it so problematic to ressurect dead players? Why aren't you doing it? Is 20 seconds of your time such a high price?

>

 

Yes it is. The question is 2s such a high price to use a waypoint and run back to a fight?

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> I actually did, it would helping you read posts that don't ONLY directly quote you.

 

You actually did not.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > You say they don't deserve rewards? Sure I'll agree there, like you said, they didn't do the event and just layer there. So then lets take away all season 1 rewards from people who bought s1 boxes. *they didn't do the event*.

>

> Boxes are paid content, whereas leeching is exploiting the lack of a proper contribution system while forcing other players to do their work for them, if they stick around to scale up the event.

 

Sigh. Already explained it multiple times, good luck talking to that wall.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > You say they don't deserve rewards? Sure I'll agree there, like you said, they didn't do the event and just layer there. So then lets take away all season 1 rewards from people who bought s1 boxes. *they didn't do the event*.

>

> Boxes are paid content, whereas leeching is exploiting the lack of a proper contribution system while forcing other players to do their work for them, if they stick around to scale up the event.

 

Who amd how are you to define amd know when someone is leeching? This thread has many contributors of why someone would be dead amd not wp. How will you make the distinction between those and genuine leeches?

 

Also. Amd I realise I am really stretching this...

 

A person who dies at an event and waypoints once to return and die again, the go ago until event success.

They paid(wp fees) for the content (event) while other players did the work.

 

You, hypothetically, buy s1box(gems) and get Jetpack(event) while I did the work fighting Scarlett when you weren't there.

 

Both paid something for the credit/result that wasn't done by them.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > Why is it so problematic to ressurect dead players? Why aren't you doing it? Is 20 seconds of your time such a high price?

> >

>

> Yes it is. The question is 2s such a high price to use a waypoint and run back to a fight?

>

 

Well I guess for some people 2s is also too high a price. Why is your personal 20 seconds worth more than someone's 2 silver?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > I actually did, it would helping you read posts that don't ONLY directly quote you.

>

> You actually did not.

 

Copy and paste.

 

> Billy PAID for university education. Even though he was hungover every day and failed his exams he still EARNED his degree.

>

>

> As for the first line, again what happened between activating your 80 boos and being 80? Nothing. You skipped MANY hours of normally required play. You did not play to get to 80. You skipped having to play the game.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

>Who amd how are you to define amd know when someone is leeching? This thread has many contributors of why someone would be dead amd not wp. How will you make the distinction between those and genuine leeches?

 

The point is, such value judgements are not necessary. It is not a "leech tax," it is a "sticking around and not WPing tax." It is applied to everyone evenly if they choose to not WP. Simple.

 

Nobody is being judged, they are either paying a fee to stick around, or they aren't.