killermanjaro.5670 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: >..it is finally time to figure out who is in the majority. I'd be surprised if this poll ends up with more than a few hundred people voting, so I don't think you'll be able to see where any sort of meaningful majority stands based on it. Anyway, personally I have my reasons which mean I don't like people laying dead around for a whole boss fight/event, especially when frequently WPs are right next to a boss, and those WPs would be unlocked just by being there. You can't end up at the final boss of DS without having run past one of the three WPs for example. And people laying around dead at Shatterer, seriously?. I personally would be in favour of a system that after 5mins or so, auto teleports any dead back to the nearest WP. (doesn't this happen in WvW btw? I'm sure I've seen a timer when I die there, but I always WP so I don't know what happens) But even with that said, it's all just a matter of preference. And as the game does allow for people to remain dead, it gives them a choice, it's not against any game rules or mechanics. So if people want to lay around dead for whatever reason, then the rest of us can't really say that they should have to use a WP rather than stay dead, as it's their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottsgman.8206 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 players SHOULD do whatever they want to, it's not up to me to say whether that is to waypoint or not, that's up to the person themselves. generally I waypoint when I'm defeated, and rez downed/defeated players when it's safe. what other people do is up to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashagar.8349 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Yeah, I don't really think there should be only one answer. Use your best judgment, try not to die yourself, and be as friendly/helpful as you can afford to be. Which sometimes means ressing a dead player and sometimes means letting them know that the waypoint is 30s run away and they'll definitely make it back in time. >@Seera.5916 said: > I'll rez typically if it's safe to do so, I've already got credit for the event, and the loss of my DPS won't cause the event to be at risk of failure due to a timer. And I haven't seen the player be obnoxious about getting a rez in chat. I'd be roughly the same. I think people's answers here will be decided not so much based on their preferences or beliefs as based on what events they visualise by default (/what events they tend to do regularly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 If it is one dead character deciding to lie there's while many continue to drive an event toward success then its probably not going to affect the outcome. Let them lie there, or rez them, whichever suits your mood at the time. If it is many dead then the event is probably going to fail. After all this is a large number of character who died in open world content. Getting them back into the fight is not likely to have much of a possitive impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 PUGs need to become more aware of their surrounding and try to help downed players up ASAP instead of letting them die. However, once dead, you are only slowing the fight down and risking other lives if you selfishly wait to be rezzed; use the nearest waypoint instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teofa Tsavo.9863 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 The poll is useless. The question should be "Should a player be forced to WP when dead by new game mechanic, ie short timer". That is the argument. I think it is best to WP out. I also am against forcing players to play a certain way as well. This "poll" is slanted and invalid, the way the questions are presented. You are going to take "The majority think people should WP out when dead" and spin it to "The majority think dead people should be auto-waypointed after X seconds". Forcing people to WP is the hot topic on the other thread. I think a lot of people agree that a player "should" WP out when dead. I do. However, I am really opposed to making it an automatic mechanic. I imagine others are as well. In essence, I am saying yes to both questions as they are phrased. "Have to" implies being forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said: > The poll is useless. The question should be "Should a player be forced to WP when dead by new game mechanic, ie short timer". That is the argument. > I think it is best to WP out. I also am against forcing players to play a certain way as well. > This "poll" is slanted and invalid, the way the questions are presented. > You are going to take "The majority think people should WP out when dead" and spin it to "The majority think dead people should be auto-waypointed after X seconds". > > Forcing people to WP is the hot topic on the other thread. I think a lot of people agree that a player "should" WP out when dead. I do. However, I am really opposed to making it an automatic mechanic. I imagine others are as well. That topic is only for that thread. This poll is about something completely different. However, once the poll votes slow down to a crawl and the result end up swinging in favor of those who would rather people WP when dead (and vise versa), then we can use the data this poll gets to develop a solution that benefits as many people as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore.1089 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Problem is there are shades of gray to the answer... it's not just a simple Rez/WP. Honestly, there should be a third 'situational' option to the poll. So I have to vote neither... players should not be forced either way. People dead < people alive. Try to Rez. People dead >= people alive... for petes sake, WP. Dead in a pool of lava (or someplace else someone will die trying to rez you), WP. Boss almost dead, can wait for the rez, but it might not happen till fight is over. However, distance to the WP plays a major factor too. Honestly, if the dead didn't count towards scaling, it would be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said: > The poll is useless. The question should be "Should a player be forced to WP when dead by new game mechanic, ie short timer". That is the argument. > I think it is best to WP out. I also am against forcing players to play a certain way as well. > This "poll" is slanted and invalid, the way the questions are presented. > You are going to take "The majority think people should WP out when dead" and spin it to "The majority think dead people should be auto-waypointed after X seconds". > > Forcing people to WP is the hot topic on the other thread. I think a lot of people agree that a player "should" WP out when dead. I do. However, I am really opposed to making it an automatic mechanic. I imagine others are as well. In essence, I am saying yes to both questions as they are phrased. "Have to" implies being forced. Yes i agree. The answers in the poll are answers to 2 completely different questions. I seriously hope further discussion isnt founded on the answers in this poll being proof because its so badly flawed. Im surprised more people cant notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan.3472 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Nubs shall WP and not fucking up my DPS xD (When you see they do NOT dodge nor position nor anything mecanism fight Wise you just wanna get rid of these scaling fight corpses by burning them FOREVER xD And the most funny is when they blame their incompetence on others (ex fractals "PRO" ^^ blaming the druid when he has been answering : "I am not a Healing druid so stop fucking expecting heals and stop dying nubs no need heals in fractals for real" xD) If you need heal spe support in fractal delete game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjaeldmark.9043 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 The problem is people trying to apply a one-size-fits-all response to the issue and completely ignore any context. If you go down at the start of the fight you should waypoint and run back. If you go down at the end of the fight then the boss will probably be dead before you get back then there is no point in using a waypoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenon.5270 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I say, if there is a waypoint reasonably close, use it! But if the nearest waypoint is on the other side of the map and you'd have to wade through hordes of annoying vets and elites or traverse ridiculously difficult terrain to get back to the event (where, of course, you went from being downed to dead because everyone else was too busy 'contributing' to help you) more than a few minutes after it's over, then to hell with it, you're better off just lying there. Someone will likely rez you when it's over. I would. You might have loot waiting to be picked up that might be gone by the time you get back. Maybe even a precursor. Or invisible shoes. It's possible. Not very likely, but possible. I, for one, won't begrudge your inactive presence. And you shouldn't give two thoughts about what anyone else thinks. That's what I think, even if it isn't an option in the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolcolax.1268 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 generally i believe fully dead wp. some events are crazy hectic that usually takes the rezzer out and creates a domino effect and almost lead to a wipe. ie mid boss during vinewrath gold and silver teragriffs and probably but not always the orange circles at teq. some events end quickly, like karka queen in which case if i fully die i can just sit there and wait until they kill the boss for a rez. unless it spawned near a wp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Even though I think people SHOULD wp, and myself never stay dead ... I picked no. Because even though they should wp, they should not HAVE to. Huge distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > ONE Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > ONE > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > ONE > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options. If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been: "Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?" With answer choices being: - Yes - Depends (elaborate in comment) - No Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins. You might not have _meant_ for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > ONE > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > ONE > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > ONE > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options. > > If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been: > > "Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?" > > With answer choices being: > - Yes > - Depends (elaborate in comment) > - No > > Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins. > > You might not have _meant_ for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion. Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 My personal course of action is that I always rez people when the event is about to be completed anyway. I also sometimes rez when it´s close, but WP myself to help scale the event. Who am I to tell or even worse bark at people to WP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > ONE > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options. > > > > If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been: > > > > "Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?" > > > > With answer choices being: > > - Yes > > - Depends (elaborate in comment) > > - No > > > > Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins. > > > > You might not have _meant_ for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion. > > Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said. Because it _is_ something that has to be handled individually. Because each mega event is unique with regards to distance from non-contested waypoint and speed at which it dies. Should players really be sent to a waypoint if they die during the last 5% of Shatterer due to a stupid mistake and Shatterer deciding at that time that he needs to spawn the portals and therefore not die in 30 seconds? Should the player who is new to HoT areas who managed to actually stick with the zerg waypoint after dying and risk not being able to find the main boss area again or reach it before the end of the event? Should players who die right at the beginning of Tequatl waypoint? Shadow Behemoth? Like I said, you might not have meant for there to be bias, but it's there. "Players should waypoint" and "Players should not have to waypoint" were the options. The first option doesn't voice it as an absolute. Your second options voices it as an absolute. People tend to not like absolutes, in general - biasing the votes. Better wording would be: "Players should waypoint" and "Players can ask and wait for a rez". And the dead not waypointing is actually not the core issue. It's a problem that stems from a couple other problems: 1. Fully dead not getting lowest priority if there are multiple interactables in range. 2. Fully dead keep events upscaled If the above 2 problems got addressed, would this even really be an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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