Thoughts on Mesmer changes?

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

> @jonG.8369 said:

> > @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

> > Axe 2 feels more clunky than ever to me.

> > Axe 3 still bugs on uneven terrain.

> > Staff ambush and illusionary ambush are good now.

> >

> > Also good to know ANet actually reads mesmers forums, since they introduce the exhaustion mechanic someone suggested, even if they don't give anything for mesmers themselves...

> >

>

> Axe 2 feels really bad now. Surprised no one else has mentioned it.

 

I agree, the increased cast timer makes it feel clunky and hurts axe clone generation for our axe 3 followup

[Tinnel.4369]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> i'm running hybrid mirage still and i had a lot of fun with axe in the last hour in wvw roaming and small scale fights. First time i can enjoy the weapon in Pvp truly. Soooo hard to decide between weapons now. Staff is my favorite in WvW as range weapon, while i had sword in the other Set for the last weeks. Now the decision between axe/torch-Staff or sword/torch-Staff is really hard. Maybe even sword/pistol axe/torch, but i still love Staff... Hard decision. If axe would have any kind of daze, I'd be sure to take it over sword, cause i could proc chaotic interruption with it granting imob etc. , while i could love without sword ambush and sword 2 ....maybe?

 

I'm running both hybrid and power with sw/t and axe/sw or p in WvW and PvP and they're both a dam hoot. The hybrid bomb on small groups or on point in PvP is devastating and by the time they figure out which one is you they're on their way out. If groups in WvW get really big I'll swap in GS or Staff just to harass the flanks and support my zerg, but the hybrid full melee build can still wreck a flank and get out alive with ease, just use Mirage Advance to get in and out and you still have Blink and Jaunt in the bag. The blind, evade, stun, tele, stealth play is like daredevil on crack dissolved in red bull.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Just talking to Malf the Streamer who mains a mesmer as well. Came to the same conclusion. Quality of life stuff & bug fixes but no real buff except for the Phant. berserker casting time from 1 sec to 0.75. At least we din't get any nerfs

 

buffing the dmg on axe is a bug fix?

[Vieux P.1238]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Just talking to Malf the Streamer who mains a mesmer as well. Came to the same conclusion. Quality of life stuff & bug fixes but no real buff except for the Phant. berserker casting time from 1 sec to 0.75. At least we din't get any nerfs

>

> buffing the dmg on axe is a bug fix?

 

What buffing on axe? I havent seen on this patch any buff on axe. A switch from confusion to bleeds was made & animation bug fixes. But no buff from what i've seen.

[Mikeskies.1536]

> @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > @musu.9205 said:

> > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > I'm happy that Mirage is now a top tier DPS pick with the Axe Ambush buff and bug fix.

> > >

> > >

> > > I'm sad that I fear that this will end abruptly next patch... Now I feel what the Scourges felt.

> >

> > well tbh all other op condi specs are nerfed in this patch . they could nerf bleed from duel line a bit .we are not those AI Build anymore except maybe matt but we dont need help there so its fair .

> > with ps nerf . might stack scourge might be a thing again

>

> You don't understand, all classes are supposed to be nerfed by 10% if left untouched. But the Axe ambush and bug fix, pushed the clone IH build significantly, that it gets to 40k DPS. From what I've heard other classes are now around 35k~ which is fine. It's not gonna be long till Mirage becomes a meta pick for most single target bosses, and also pretty good for AoE, since Axe clones do cleave.

>

 

Not many classes are at 35k, more around 30-32k DPS. The 40k Mirage build is going to get bug fixed.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > I'm happy that Mirage is now a top tier DPS pick with the Axe Ambush buff and bug fix.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I'm sad that I fear that this will end abruptly next patch... Now I feel what the Scourges felt.

> > >

> > > well tbh all other op condi specs are nerfed in this patch . they could nerf bleed from duel line a bit .we are not those AI Build anymore except maybe matt but we dont need help there so its fair .

> > > with ps nerf . might stack scourge might be a thing again

> >

> > You don't understand, all classes are supposed to be nerfed by 10% if left untouched. But the Axe ambush and bug fix, pushed the clone IH build significantly, that it gets to 40k DPS. From what I've heard other classes are now around 35k~ which is fine. It's not gonna be long till Mirage becomes a meta pick for most single target bosses, and also pretty good for AoE, since Axe clones do cleave.

> >

>

> Not many classes are at 35k, more around 30-32k DPS. The 40k Mirage build is going to get bug fixed.

 

As it should be. The 40k+ is from the axe Ambush double hitting if you use it inside hitboxes. On a small hitbox the build only hits around 36k, which is reasonable.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > > I'm happy that Mirage is now a top tier DPS pick with the Axe Ambush buff and bug fix.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sad that I fear that this will end abruptly next patch... Now I feel what the Scourges felt.

> > > >

> > > > well tbh all other op condi specs are nerfed in this patch . they could nerf bleed from duel line a bit .we are not those AI Build anymore except maybe matt but we dont need help there so its fair .

> > > > with ps nerf . might stack scourge might be a thing again

> > >

> > > You don't understand, all classes are supposed to be nerfed by 10% if left untouched. But the Axe ambush and bug fix, pushed the clone IH build significantly, that it gets to 40k DPS. From what I've heard other classes are now around 35k~ which is fine. It's not gonna be long till Mirage becomes a meta pick for most single target bosses, and also pretty good for AoE, since Axe clones do cleave.

> > >

> >

> > Not many classes are at 35k, more around 30-32k DPS. The 40k Mirage build is going to get bug fixed.

>

> As it should be. The 40k+ is from the axe Ambush double hitting if you use it inside hitboxes. On a small hitbox the build only hits around 36k, which is reasonable.

 

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I was really struggling to figure out how the buffs axe got were anywhere near enough to get us to 40k DPS

[Aylaine.1036]

> @Pyroatheist.9031 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said:

> > > > > I'm happy that Mirage is now a top tier DPS pick with the Axe Ambush buff and bug fix.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm sad that I fear that this will end abruptly next patch... Now I feel what the Scourges felt.

> > > >

> > > > well tbh all other op condi specs are nerfed in this patch . they could nerf bleed from duel line a bit .we are not those AI Build anymore except maybe matt but we dont need help there so its fair .

> > > > with ps nerf . might stack scourge might be a thing again

> > >

> > > You don't understand, all classes are supposed to be nerfed by 10% if left untouched. But the Axe ambush and bug fix, pushed the clone IH build significantly, that it gets to 40k DPS. From what I've heard other classes are now around 35k~ which is fine. It's not gonna be long till Mirage becomes a meta pick for most single target bosses, and also pretty good for AoE, since Axe clones do cleave.

> > >

> >

> > Not many classes are at 35k, more around 30-32k DPS. The 40k Mirage build is going to get bug fixed.

>

> As it should be. The 40k+ is from the axe Ambush double hitting if you use it inside hitboxes. On a small hitbox the build only hits around 36k, which is reasonable.

 

36k for Mesmer is a godsend, considering we've never been anywhere near that high before. And without phantasms no less.

[Motoko.2875]

GW1 Mesmer was the best! :)

[apharma.3741]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > Looking at Mesmer patches over the years and the whole mess that is Mirage, its quite obvious Anet doesn't understand Mesmer and doesn't really know how it works. Funnily enough I think that is the only thing that saved Chrono this patch, they have no idea how to reduce the role of Chrono without just gutting the class or even outright removing skills/traits/mechanics from it.

> >

> > Also while everybody complains about how important Chronos are to raids they also want their sweet sweet Alacrity and distortion. If Anet listened to them and removed Chrono they would scream bloody murder as now they have to deal with tanking, avoiding boss mechanics, attacking at normal speed and dealing with cds.

>

> Yeah, my sentiment exactly.

>

> The unique mechanics which make chrono so strong are so interwoven that changing or removing them would leave mesmer in an even worse state than necromancer as far as fixing goes. Makes sense that the balance team doesn't want to do that just yet (or hopefully at all. I mean bosses can be designed with distortion in mind).

 

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better though. Mesmer has a lot of issues at the core and if they have to be solved by deleting chrono from PvE then wondering why no-one plays mesmer then it has to happen...in a year and a half like Pyro said.

 

Also...does anyone else find it weird to refer to Pyro as Pyro and his name actually BE Pyro?

[OriOri.8724]

The problem is that any change that is bad enough to delete chrono from PvE will not just delete chrono, but also core mesmer, and most likely mirage, due to how deep these issues run in the design of the class. I don't think that 1 mandatory slot in a raid comp is worth destroying not only chrono, but also base mesmer and potentially mirage for a year or more (cause lets face it, they wouldn't fix that in 1 or 2 balance patches).

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > @Levetty.1279 said:

> > > Looking at Mesmer patches over the years and the whole mess that is Mirage, its quite obvious Anet doesn't understand Mesmer and doesn't really know how it works. Funnily enough I think that is the only thing that saved Chrono this patch, they have no idea how to reduce the role of Chrono without just gutting the class or even outright removing skills/traits/mechanics from it.

> > >

> > > Also while everybody complains about how important Chronos are to raids they also want their sweet sweet Alacrity and distortion. If Anet listened to them and removed Chrono they would scream bloody murder as now they have to deal with tanking, avoiding boss mechanics, attacking at normal speed and dealing with cds.

> >

> > Yeah, my sentiment exactly.

> >

> > The unique mechanics which make chrono so strong are so interwoven that changing or removing them would leave mesmer in an even worse state than necromancer as far as fixing goes. Makes sense that the balance team doesn't want to do that just yet (or hopefully at all. I mean bosses can be designed with distortion in mind).

>

> Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better though. Mesmer has a lot of issues at the core and if they have to be solved by deleting chrono from PvE then wondering why no-one plays mesmer then it has to happen...in a year and a half like Pyro said.

>

> Also...does anyone else find it weird to refer to Pyro as Pyro and his name actually BE Pyro?

 

Bet you there's some confused people wondering where Fay went though.

[musu.9205]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> The problem is that any change that is bad enough to delete chrono from PvE will not just delete chrono, but also core mesmer, and most likely mirage, due to how deep these issues run in the design of the class. I don't think that 1 mandatory slot in a raid comp is worth destroying not only chrono, but also base mesmer and potentially mirage for a year or more (cause lets face it, they wouldn't fix that in 1 or 2 balance patches).

 

well right now mirage is stil half finished spec with many problems but at least its sort of good dps assuming large hit box bug gets fixed soon .if they gut chrono just for those random complaint (like distortion share on sloth shake ). we will be left with a reasonable dps spec .

 

but i really don't see they need to further nerf chrono .many pug groups will start using firebrand + rev healer or other wild choices. there will be meta comp simply coz guilds like qt don't need 2 dedicated healers , or even one . and likely there will be different meta comp for different bosses.

 

yeah people were saying how much chrono can bring to raid squad . but usually those people don't really understand what chrono does anyway .soon or later they will find out firebrand does almost everything better except distortion share which doesn't matter for most pug groups. i'm fully aware that firebrand quickness has less ranged than chrono but they have far easier time to keep 100% uptime since they only need like 20% boon duration for 100% quickness uptime . and there is nothing to stop pug going 100% boon duration anyway .

 

oh btw , it's possible a firebrand share enough quickness to entire squad .