Zacchary.6183 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. And thats not "burst". P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. But thanks for the tip with the Might generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwii.5972 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoxShatterfall.5470 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Gwii.5972 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > This is exactly the issue with the nerfs to FFE - people didn't realize with improv you could get 2 quick bursts from FFE and get 20 stacks of might for 15 sec or 30 sec with the right build. Toss in 1 cantrip and OITC and you got 30 stacks perma uptime. The main thing though with this build is that you lose so much DPS, as much as 30% dps off of an already lackluster dps by thieves these days, even with 100% uptime of might. Seriously the FFE was a nerf - ANET disguised it as a side grade when they basically want teams to run 2 buff builds per team to get 25 stacks of perma might. Thats the other issue as well - why run 2 buffers if you can just run 2 more DPS for 100% more damage on each? The FFE thief was the only support thief build I could embrace as of late, with all the might generation you needed in a single package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > And thats not "burst". > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my ass and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > @Gwii.5972 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coronit.9432 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @seanshine.8791 said: > "Stolen skills will now always be cast on your mark even if your mark is not your current target." > > This has got to be the stupidest change of them all. In group fights, I want to be able to say steal on ranger and use the stolen ability on another target that is low to immob. Way to lower the skill ceiling even more anet. This game is officially dead. LOL didn´t see that. like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Theandil.6045 said: > > @Ysmir.4986 said: > > The stuff around UC makes me more angry every second I think about it. > > There is only the following possibilities. The people who took this decision either: > > a) do not understand the current reality of movement impairing conditions in the game and ease with which they are spammed, > > b) do not play gw2, > > c) are idiots. > > Take your pick. I'm open for debate which is worse. > > d)... they are Squishy WvW/PvP players and everytime thief kill them, salt comes out of they eyes... Based on my experience from playing this game for years, i would say combination of all those 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grissman.2845 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 "Yo, Ho haul together, hoist the colours high Heave ho, thieves and beggars, never shall we die" *saluts while sinking with the ship that is Thief main* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzah.8019 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 deadly aim damage also got nerfed in this patch (20 to 30% damage reduction) just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > And thats not "burst". > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastel.9157 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > I play my Deadeye on boss fights just like you do. I mark then I have to AA until it fills because I can't waste ini on any other skill to use DJ which is not right. Yes, I know it hits hard, but DE need to use other skills besides that in the meantime for charge up which counteracts the way we are supposed to use it by saving ini. That needs to change because it is the sole reason our damage cannot reach 33k like the DD can. We only use one move which is DJ due to ini costs. > > > > As for PvP, I have killed people before, but I wasn't using DJ because they always block reflect at the last second making it useless. I can kill faster with be quick or be killed using 3 round/2round burst because malice is so slow and DJ so block-able. > > I don't wait for malice to build up and I still deal shitload of damage. I compensate the damage:ini ratio with Improv, FFE, RFI and Mercy so I can essentially spam DJ to great effect. Just two malice boosts DJ by 36% which is enough to hit 5 digits crits. And it is easy enough to get at the start a rotation with Revealed Malice. I don't even touch the other skills unless I am kiting or breaking a bar. The problem I have with this is the massive build up before initial shots. Feels like starting to make a cake when you see the enemy....sooo much preparation and button clicking before even hitting the enemy that it takes all the fun away from rifle spec.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > >They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. Where do you get all that info? Do you have some kind of reliable statistics that tell you (and us) what skills people keep using? What's the source of that statement? Because saying something that you "imagine is happening" and stating it as fact just so you can pretent you have an argument isn't exactly getting us anywhere. Why wouldn't people use DJ? (in a longer fight, obviously, using it with no-to-low malice is just stupid and a waste of resources) >They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. Costs kittenload of initiative which is needed for your burst skill and a lot of classes will still catch up with you (OR just run the other way to easly disengage and you won't catch most of them). >They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. Wait, so is DE glassy or not? You keep writing 2 contradicting things in different threads depending on what you need an argument for. You can't be both glassy and not glassy at the same time. Decide already and then use it as an argument. > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. No, the rifle had a lot of issues and this patch still didn't touch enough of them. > @Nitron.6405 said: > Multi-target damage nerfed (fair enough, it's a single target spec, right?), single target DPS... still too low for PVE. Rifle Deadeye should be THE go-to single target DPS spec given the amount of restrictions in place. True, it's mind boggling how a lot of people seem to not understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Well, here's to hoping we thieves get a meaningful patch in three months! Although, I fear we're more likely to get Smiter's Boon'd even further...it'd probably just be safer to delete the class at this point; Anet doesn't seem to care enough to actually balance it. At least if they delete it, I can go and find another game with a decent rogue-type class I can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Barzah.8019 said: > deadly aim damage also got nerfed in this patch (20 to 30% damage reduction) just sayin What? They nerfed the AA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzah.8019 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 @"Jinks.2057" about 20 to 30% damage reduction i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiceDead.1963 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > > And thats not "burst". > > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. > > yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. You are never landing a full unload on a decent player. You are far more likely to land 1 round coming from god knows where than 8 rounds in a quick succession. Besides, you are far more likely to kill yourself spamming unloads. ...Not saying DJ is any better though, as it has a massive tell on it, and a sinister sound-cue, it might as well not exist because it's NEVER going to land on an attentive player. At least Unload may land half of its rounds. Ranged just sucks in general in this game, and has for the past years, and even then people still asked for a sniper-spec anyway! Hah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phosphorite.6192 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Thank goth I don't care about pvp or wvw. PvE is so much easier in so many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @TwiceDead.1963 said: > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > > > > And thats not "burst". > > > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > > > > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > > > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > > > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. > > > > yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. > > You are never landing a full unload on a decent player. You are far more likely to land 1 round coming from god knows where than 8 rounds in a quick succession. Besides, you are far more likely to kill yourself spamming unloads. > > ...Not saying DJ is any better though, as it has a massive tell on it, and a sinister sound-cue, it might as well not exist because it's NEVER going to land on an attentive player. At least Unload may land half of its rounds. > > Ranged just sucks in general in this game, and has for the past years, and even then people still asked for a sniper-spec anyway! Hah. not everything is about pvp you know? pve is still the biggest part of this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Barzah.8019 said: > @"Jinks.2057" about 20 to 30% damage reduction i think WTF why? The AA was over performing!??!!?? ROFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barzah.8019 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Jinks.2057 said: > > kitten why? > > The AA was over performing!??!!?? > > ROFLMAO Either the balance team got drunk when trying to balance thief, or their non thief alt keep getting sniped by deadeye rifle on PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maugetarr.6823 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Barzah.8019 said: > deadly aim damage also got nerfed in this patch (20 to 30% damage reduction) just sayin I hope you're wrong about this.... That would put it in brutal aim territory. I'll have to test it out this weekend. Edit: haven't had time to test dps against the golem, but tooltip is unchanged from before the patch in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > > And thats not "burst". > > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. > > yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. I have almost twice your HP, though. That's why. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazerusKI.7485 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > > > > And thats not "burst". > > > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > > > > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > > > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > > > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. > > > > yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. > > I have almost twice your HP, though. That's why. :P doesnt matter, when i last checked my DJ hit for 16k or so with 7 Malice and 25 Might. I was able to use it just once, if i were lucky twice. Unload started at 10k with the ability to chain it as long as i want... thats what i mean when i say that the "burst" from DJ is a joke. And now that i need to hit the marked target its even weaker because in pve there is always another enemy that can get hit instead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddle.2714 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > doesnt matter, when i last checked my DJ hit for 16k or so with 7 Malice and 25 Might. I was able to use it just once, if i were lucky twice. > Unload started at 10k with the ability to chain it as long as i want... > thats what i mean when i say that the "burst" from DJ is a joke. > > And now that i need to hit the marked target its even weaker because in pve there is always another enemy that can get hit instead... Just curious, what do you wear? That dmg is kinda low for 7 malice & 25 might And DJ could be used 2 times at worst, 3 times at best, even without trickery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @LazerusKI.7485 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing I am laughing about is how everyone is making a big fuss about about nothing. The biggest nerf in the set is DJ only working on the marked target. But it isn't like 80% of you guys use it anyways LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i hope you see the problem yourself. Rifle was allready garbage. > > > > > > > > > > > IF DJ would have been changed into a piercing ability, THEN this would make sense...but this? This is just a joke... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TBH most of the people who were running around with rifle deadeye had no clue how to play it. They complain about damage when they don't use the main damaging skill DJ and spam TRB instead. They complain about in combat mobility but don't use Death's Retreat. They complain about survivability when they spec glassy and not let the damage bonuses and self buffs make up for the lack of glass stats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issues with rifle are on the player. I have been saying this since day 0. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah because the damage from DJ istn that high when you consider its "chargetime". There are other skills on other weapons that deal far more damage. Whats the use of Quickness for example on a Rifle when Malice generation isnt affected by it? Meanwhile its great for Unload spamming, which kills most normal pve enemies after one or two uses without actually wasting energy thanks to the refund it has. Thanks to the recharge of the mark on kill you can profit from all the "on steal" effects as often as you want too. > > > > > > > > > All of that was discussed over and over again, the slow Malice generation, the lack or area attacks or piercing shots, the lack of energy for skills... > > > > > > > > > And all we get is yet another nerf that limits stolen skills and DJ to the marked target? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is exactly what I am talking about. The Deadeye was meant to be a long ranged burst/support spec. Single target. It wasn't supposed to have AoE or "energy". It wasn't meant to be fast-paced. Yet players seem to think that is how its supposed to work and are having a horrible time with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah but he cant do that! he has no "longrange burst" because DJ needs malice, malice needs attacks, attacks cause the enemy to run towards you. > > > > > > > he has no other "hard hitting skills" besides TRB either since DJ needs time/malice. > > > > > > > Pistols are a far better "long range burst" since they can mark - gain quickness, cast unload - gain might and get back initiative. TRB gives 9 might for 6s and costs 4 energy. Unload gives 8 might of 8s costs 5 energy and refunds 2, so its basically cheaper while at the same time it hits for almost the same damage as DJ or even more when you look at it from a dps perspective. > > > > > > > If im wrong then please tell me where this "long range burst" is hidden on my rifle, because so far it seems like its hiding on my Pistols > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is called Death's Judgement. It's a single shot with a cast time as fast as the rifle auto and it doesn't rely on bullets landing to get its damage buff. It doesn't need TRB to set up because there are better ways to get might than spamming 3. Namely, Fire for Effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > TRB is a waste of initiative. The might is so short lived that by the time you run out of initiative your damage boost is gone. And like TRB, Unload has to land all bullets to get the full amount might and initiative gain. This makes it almost mandatory to maximize quickness uptime in order to get as much as you can out of them. But a majority of quickness comes from BQBK which lasts a total of 4s, meaning that you have to burst your target down fast or you lose your damage and speed bonus. > > > > > > > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > > > > > > And thats not "burst". > > > > > P/P and spamming Unload while under Quickness at the beginning of the fight - thats burst. > > > > > Tickling your enemy for 10s and then hitting once for high damage - thats not burst, thats a finisher that only "normalises" the damage you missed while "charging up". > > > > > If the malice generation would be faster so that you could use DJ before it isnt worth using anymore, then you could call it "burst". But in its current state its not, not when Unload spam or even Heartseeker are a thing. > > > > > > > > > > And even then, having only 1 skill to use on rifle because all the others eat up its energy...thats not what i would call balanced. > > > > > > > > > > But thanks for the tip with the Might generation > > > > > > > > You don't even need much malice to get high numbers on DJ. I have said this numerous times before. 19-20 Might with two malice will make DJ deal 10k crits, even with valk/marauders. Non-vets die just as fast as with glassy d/p auto, but with my range I don't even have to move. I've gotten salty whispers because I parked my kitten and killed everything around me, using the same build, while a d/p daredevil was running around failing to get a single hit. And all I was doing was Mark > Stolen skills > Sniper's Cover > DJ > auto > Repeat. Now its Sniper's Cover between stolen skill uses, but my damage was pretty much unchanged. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > @Gwii.5972 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > With FFE and Improv, you can start off with 16 stacks of long lasting might for the cost of nothing. > > > > > > You can boost that to 24 with One in the Chamber and one of the Cantrips. > > > > > At the cost of time, which means at the cost of dps. With 1s ICD, we need 2 sec to finish casting stolen skills, >3 sec if using One in the Chamber. That's about one full auto attack chain plus 2 weakening strikes, or 2 rounds of unload there. > > > > With a glassy build, I would totally agree with you. But when you spec with tankier stats and enough cleanse/healing to keep you set, time doesn't matter as much. That is another thing I have mentioned numerous times. You do not have to spec glassy with Deadeye, yet people do it anyway for that little bit of extra damage. > > > > > > > > > > Or you can use Revealed Malice, Mark > Stolen Skill > Sniper's Cover > second Stolen Skill (to proc it), and have 19 long lasting might and 2 malice from the getgo. With one of these methods, you are already super buffed without having to use barely any initiative by the time you are ready to fire off your first DJ. And it hits hard. > > > > > I tried your open world build. Including ramping up, an average of10k-ish at such slow attack speed (uncurable by quickness because of the high initiative cost) is just meh. I still fail to see any motivation to sacrifice movement for rifle. > > > > > > > > > Rifle has movement too. Death's retreat is a really good gap opener and kite skill. And with the shadowstep fix to, it can port up terrain assuming you can walk there. > > > > > > yeah and 10k DJ is a bad joke when even my Unload that i can spam all the time hits for 10k+, and i dont need Malice or Might for that. > > > > I have almost twice your HP, though. That's why. :P > > doesnt matter, when i last checked my DJ hit for 16k or so with 7 Malice and 25 Might. I was able to use it just once, if i were lucky twice. > Unload started at 10k with the ability to chain it as long as i want... > thats what i mean when i say that the "burst" from DJ is a joke. > > And now that i need to hit the marked target its even weaker because in pve there is always another enemy that can get hit instead... Maybe you should stop focusing your entire gameplay around that one attack. There is no reason to compare it to Unload. Actually engage and fight your opponent rather than just trying to juke and stealth for the opportunity to press the 4 key. Then, once you hit 7 malice stacks, see if you can get DJ off as a finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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