BunjiKugashira.9754 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > The thing is, if they're "stepping on you", you have already stepped on them. > > Whiny people joining a below-80 dungeon run and crying about the DPS of the people inside are not "stepped on" by the evil below-80s they joined. Sorry. And full bunker guardians that join a group that advertised as "lf dmg dealer" are not stepped on when they get kicked. The game goes both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > The thing is, if they're "stepping on you", you have already stepped on them. > > Whiny people joining a below-80 dungeon run and crying about the DPS of the people inside are not "stepped on" by the evil below-80s they joined. Sorry. Joining a low-level run and expecting meta comp and tactics would be silly, I fully agree. And consequently I see no reason to complain. But I would fathom a guess when complaints are actually happening, the joining process went the other way (a low-level char joining what's supposed to be exp/fast run). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @BunjiKugashira.9754 said: > > @Maunzi.3764 said: > > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > The thing is, if they're "stepping on you", you have already stepped on them. > > > > Whiny people joining a below-80 dungeon run and crying about the DPS of the people inside are not "stepped on" by the evil below-80s they joined. Sorry. > > And full bunker guardians that join a group that advertised as "lf dmg dealer" are not stepped on when they get kicked. The game goes both directions. I have never seen the latter in five years. Again, I like DPS meters, but it's a fact that many that use it are terrible about it, contributing to the dislike of them. If more users of DPS meters were less toxic, everyone would quickly realize how useful they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodtau.4672 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Add-ons need to be disallowed from the game, full stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > @Fermi.2409 said: > > > The minority of raiders "obsess" over DPS because that's what they enjoy. Apparently you're looking down on people for doing what they enjoy, which is honestly pretty sad. > > > > Raiders can like what they want. It's everybodies 'right' to enjoy what they want. > > > > But not by stepping on other people to get what they want. Because THAT is even more sad. > > The thing is, if they're "stepping on you", you have already stepped on them. It's a multiplayer game and the meta, the efficient way to play, encompasses the whole party. By joining a meta party with a non-meta build, you're already getting in the way of their fun. You have zero moral right to be upset, because *everything* you're upset about is equally valid in the other way. You want people to accept your way? Well, how about starting by accepting theirs first? At the end of my leveling process i am geared by the game i play and ready to enter endgame. So it is basically the games way i am going to play. But apparantly i should have studied certain laws and mechanics through whatever obscure means that are imposed on me by some gang that uses 3rd party software to spy on me and hinder me in going any further if i refuse their rogue laws. Again: If they wish to play that way they should organise themselves in such a way that they are out of the way of the the normal flow of people playing a game in their leisure time. I don't have to accept anything beyond what the game itself dictates me. All the rest is coercement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 Downvote topic. The DPS meters have not changed the game at all. From the start players sought others who could carry their own weight. Thinks like titles, killproofs, achievements, etc, used to be a poor implementation. With DPS meters it becomes easier to see when a player is not carrying the minimum of his own weight. If you perform subpar, its okay, the team will carry you. But if you play half of the subpar value, then maybe you dont belong in raids or T4 fractals, where you are supposed to play seriously and not slack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > @Fermi.2409 said: > > > > The minority of raiders "obsess" over DPS because that's what they enjoy. Apparently you're looking down on people for doing what they enjoy, which is honestly pretty sad. > > > > > > Raiders can like what they want. It's everybodies 'right' to enjoy what they want. > > > > > > But not by stepping on other people to get what they want. Because THAT is even more sad. > > > > The thing is, if they're "stepping on you", you have already stepped on them. It's a multiplayer game and the meta, the efficient way to play, encompasses the whole party. By joining a meta party with a non-meta build, you're already getting in the way of their fun. You have zero moral right to be upset, because *everything* you're upset about is equally valid in the other way. You want people to accept your way? Well, how about starting by accepting theirs first? > > At the end of my leveling process i am geared by the game i play and ready to enter endgame. So it is basically the games way i am going to play. > > But apparantly i should have studied certain laws and mechanics through whatever obscure means that are imposed on me by some gang that uses 3rd party software to spy on me and hinder me in going any further if i refuse their rogue laws. > > Again: If they wish to play that way they should organise themselves in such a way that they are out of the way of the the normal flow of people playing a game in their leisure time. > > I don't have to accept anything beyond what the game itself dictates me. All the rest is coercement. > > > > Yes, sure, because thats how endgame works. After i boosted my char to lvl 80 i instantly join T4 Fractal grp, because i CAN. We organise ourselfes, its called LFG/Guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @sigur.9453 said: > Yes, sure, because thats how endgame works. No, that is how i am forced to swallow it by 3rd party software. > After i boosted my char to lvl 80 i instantly join T4 Fractal grp, because i CAN. Exactly! > We organise ourselfes, its called LFG/Guilds. Guilds is good, people organised to play the way they want. LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. After that they might wish to get organised and join a guild or remain outside of instances at all. That freedom is damaged by players that scold and kick unsuspecting newcomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Panda.1967 said: > > > @Carighan.6758 said: > > > To which I have to wonder: Where were you before DPS meters? Did you genuinely prefer getting kicked over not having 300 LIs or 22k AP over getting kicked over not doing 35k DPS? I mean the latter at least has a passing resemblance to actual ability as a player, so as silly as it is to just blindly kick over it, it is much preferable to the previous reasons people would just kick over. > > > > > > And it happened just as much. Elitists existed **long** before DPS meters. > > > > I feel it's worth noting... prior to DPS meters, I personally NEVER ONCE got kicked from a group, never personally saw any of the arbitrary requirements to join groups, never once got asked to provide proof of kills or anything of the like. Never even got harassed over my builds. However, as soon as DPS meters showed up I started getting denied from groups left and right simply because I'm not running a meta build. This happened so frequently that I gave up on finding groups for endgame content. I havn't got to do any endgame since DPS meters were added. I can't even find groups to run old out dated dungeons to get some armor/weapon skins anymore. To make matters worse, all my friends have quit, so I don't even have the option of running content with people I know. I've tried joining other guilds, and so far my experiences have been finding out that most of the people in the guilds I joined are entitled jerks who, go figure, won't run any content with you unless you run their approved meta builds. And yes, this happened when I joined guilds that advertise as "casual guilds". > > > > So, in my experience, DPS meters have caused a lot of harm and practically ruined the game. Before I had no issues finding parties, now i can't get a group for anything unless I give in and switch to a kitten meta build. Which will **NEVER** happen. I do not enjoy meta builds. > > Sorry, I'm not buying that. I've seen (and being subjected to) elitism before dps meters, on numerous occasions. If anything, their introduction consistently lowered these experiences for me, partially because I was already improving my skill by that time. But the stark contrast you're describing is simply unbelievable. If you're bad enough to get kicked now, you surely would have been kicked from the meta groups before, too. Chances are, you never actually tried to speed-run dungeons for instance. And that's the only reason why you haven't seen this behavior before. They had it all - strict party composition, AP requirements, kicks for poor performance, take your pick. Literal *years* before the introduction of dps meters. > > You can simply do what you have been doing before that and stay away from meta parties. Not hard, right? I never said that people didn't do any of that before DPS meters, I said that **"I PERSONALLY NEVER EXPERIENCED IT"** until after DPS meters were added. I've heard people complain about it on the forums and in map chat back then, but **MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE* was that it never happened to me back then. I have never cared about speed runs, I still don't care about speed runs, and I never will. I tried to find groups for CASUAL RUNS after DPS meters were added and all anyone cared about was speed runs and requiring everyone to use meta builds. Even when I advertised for my own groups I ran into nothing but people who wanted me to run their Meta. When I tried to join casual guilds, I STILL ran into only people who wanted me to run meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. They are supposed to learn through trial and error if that's on the description of said LFG. It's all in the words, it takes a few moments of your time to read the LFG listings and find one that suits you and it's every player's right to create an LFG with specific requirements. Unsuspected newcomers should join groups for unsuspecting newcomers and don't expect anything from the groups they join. Simple reading of basic English is all that is required to not have any problems. The "damage", as you call it, only happens when there is a reading comprehension issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @sigur.9453 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > Yes, sure, because thats how endgame works. > > > > No, that is how i am forced to swallow it by 3rd party software. > > > > > After i boosted my char to lvl 80 i instantly join T4 Fractal grp, because i CAN. > > > > Exactly! > > > > > We organise ourselfes, its called LFG/Guilds. > > > > Guilds is good, people organised to play the way they want. > > > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > After that they might wish to get organised and join a guild or remain outside of instances at all. > > > > That freedom is damaged by players that scold and kick unsuspecting newcomers. > > > > > > > > > > What are you even talking about? > How does DPS force your endgame? It makes it way easier! > > Ok, my group will have a lot of fun, because i have 0 AR, but thats how the game apperently whats me to do it. > > Do you even comunicate ingame? > Because here i see 2 reasons for that drama. > > 1: you do not understand what the LFG means (you could simply asked what a group of 9 ppl expect, yes expect of you.) > 2: you are simply ignoring everything, like in this topic, because you want to play the game your way > > and somehow the others are the ignorant ones. I am talking about what is in the topic title... DPS- meters ruining the game. I couldn't care less about the rest of your rant. Ive been on the recieving end of this type of software for a long time in other games and i will speak against its use in this game whenever i can and in an apppropriate way. I never called anyone ignorant either... please stop pretending otherwise and STOP INSULTING ME! DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. Its too bad for people that are able to restrain themselves and use it wisely but i still think it has to go. Period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda.1967 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @BunjiKugashira.9754 said: > > @Panda.1967 said: > > > @Carighan.6758 said: > > > To which I have to wonder: Where were you before DPS meters? Did you genuinely prefer getting kicked over not having 300 LIs or 22k AP over getting kicked over not doing 35k DPS? I mean the latter at least has a passing resemblance to actual ability as a player, so as silly as it is to just blindly kick over it, it is much preferable to the previous reasons people would just kick over. > > > > > > And it happened just as much. Elitists existed **long** before DPS meters. > > > > I feel it's worth noting... prior to DPS meters, I personally NEVER ONCE got kicked from a group, never personally saw any of the arbitrary requirements to join groups, never once got asked to provide proof of kills or anything of the like. Never even got harassed over my builds. However, as soon as DPS meters showed up I started getting denied from groups left and right simply because I'm not running a meta build. This happened so frequently that I gave up on finding groups for endgame content. I havn't got to do any endgame since DPS meters were added. I can't even find groups to run old out dated dungeons to get some armor/weapon skins anymore. To make matters worse, all my friends have quit, so I don't even have the option of running content with people I know. I've tried joining other guilds, and so far my experiences have been finding out that most of the people in the guilds I joined are entitled jerks who, go figure, won't run any content with you unless you run their approved meta builds. And yes, this happened when I joined guilds that advertise as "casual guilds". > > > > So, in my experience, DPS meters have caused a lot of harm and practically ruined the game. Before I had no issues finding parties, now i can't get a group for anything unless I give in and switch to a kitten meta build. Which will **NEVER** happen. I do not enjoy meta builds. > > What about AP requirements and gear-ping? I remember having people in dungeon pug-groups that would initiate a kick against anyone below xk AP even if the lfg didn't state any AP requirement. It was a widely spread practice to instantly kick anyone who doesn't meet a certain AP threshold. Personally I never had to ping gear, but that's because I avoided such groups. Then came raids and with them the requirement to ping a certain amount of kill-proofs. > > Before DPS meters you would get kicked as soon as someone notices that you're not running the exact meta build. And the meta build was whatever pulled the highest golem-numbers. Now, with DPS meters, it became possible (in theory) to run whatever build you want as long as you still do your job. As a damage dealer this means dealing >x kdps, as a support this means having almost full uptime on the buffs you're supposed to give, as a healer this means keeping the group >90% life most of the time, etc. All of these are figures that can be read from a DPS meter, not just the DPS. Personally never encountered any groups asking for gear-ping or AP requirements. I didn't make any effort to avoid such groups either, it just never came up for me. My personal experience before DPS meters was just overall better than things have been since the addition of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigur.9453 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > @sigur.9453 said: > > > > Yes, sure, because thats how endgame works. > > > > > > No, that is how i am forced to swallow it by 3rd party software. > > > > > > > After i boosted my char to lvl 80 i instantly join T4 Fractal grp, because i CAN. > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > > > > We organise ourselfes, its called LFG/Guilds. > > > > > > Guilds is good, people organised to play the way they want. > > > > > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > > After that they might wish to get organised and join a guild or remain outside of instances at all. > > > > > > That freedom is damaged by players that scold and kick unsuspecting newcomers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you even talking about? > > How does DPS force your endgame? It makes it way easier! > > > > Ok, my group will have a lot of fun, because i have 0 AR, but thats how the game apperently whats me to do it. > > > > Do you even comunicate ingame? > > Because here i see 2 reasons for that drama. > > > > 1: you do not understand what the LFG means (you could simply asked what a group of 9 ppl expect, yes expect of you.) > > 2: you are simply ignoring everything, like in this topic, because you want to play the game your way > > > > and somehow the others are the ignorant ones. > > I am talking about what is in the topic title... DPS- meters ruining the game. > > I couldn't care less about the rest of your rant. Ive been on the recieving end of this type of software for a long time in other games and i will speak against its use in this game whenever i can and in an apppropriate way. > > I never called anyone ignorant either... please stop pretending otherwise and STOP INSULTING ME! > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > Its too bad for people that are able to restrain themselves and use it wisely but i still think it has to go. > > Period! > > Well, consider this talk over then. Period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maunzi.3764 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > They are supposed to learn through trial and error if that's on the description of said LFG. It's all in the words, it takes a few moments of your time to read the LFG listings and find one that suits you and it's every player's right to create an LFG with specific requirements. Unsuspected newcomers should join groups for unsuspecting newcomers and don't expect anything from the groups they join. > > Simple reading of basic English is all that is required to not have any problems. The "damage", as you call it, only happens when there is a reading comprehension issue. Agreed. If people with a meta mindset would _stop_ messing with groups clearly labeled as "casual" or "fun run", there'd be no issue. Nobody forces these people to join groups with newbies. And yet they keep blindly joining the first group in the LFG, and freaking out that it's not a speedrun. It's not hard to understand what "casual" or "fun run" means and why expecting food usage, meta classes and Heart of Thorns specializations from sub 80s characters is stupid (for one, they can't even TAKE the specialization yet). Outside these runs, this problem doesn't exist. There are no evil armies of casuals forcing themselves into innocent "pro" runs. Quite the opposite. What we see _there_ is crappy "pros" clashing with people that are actually good at the game. The terrible elementalist joining a Xera EXP run isn't an evil "casual with a bunker build" but a raider with a terrible rotation - and quite clearly revealed as such by food usage and weapon/trait choice. Like, by the way, a lot of elementalists. looking through gw2raidar and seeing the discrepancy between good and bad players was highly interesting. That, too, is why Arcdps is a good thing. These toxic players that bash others for bad builds or specs usually are terrible themselves, and get revealed by DPS meters. Similarly, the classes they used to bash turn out to be pretty good, or at least workable. I _love_ making a "but reapers are terrible" crybaby eat his awful DPS in a 100 CM run. Sucks for them sitting behind that "terrible reaper" in DPS that they were supposed to outclass by class choice alone. So yeah: DPS Meters, great for raids, if used well. >DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. Your problem here is that you confused who these people are. The people _themselves_ likely think they are EXP, PRO, META and generally good, and that everyone else is the problem. They tend to run meta builds, use meta food, and stick rigidly to what qtfy writes even though the good folks of qtfy are painstakingly clear that they are just posting benchmarks, and that classes performing poorly in benchmarks are NOT neccessarily bad. GW2Raidar proves this beyond doubt. That is why all the "EXP" and "META ONLY" in lfg doesn't help and you get duds. These duds THINK they are both meta and exp, and don't realize that a bad rotation is what causes them to fail. Okay, one of them might be an Abakk, too, but these are far rarer than you think. Most casuals wouldn't even touch the raid lfg, much less higher fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. Exactly! Its a problem that is caused by people that couldn't care less who they insult and damage in order to get **what THEY want**. That is why it is **MY OPINION** that it should not be allowed in MMORPG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconut.7082 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > > > DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. > > Exactly! > > Its a problem that is caused by people that couldn't care less who they insult and damage in order to get **what THEY want**. That is why it is **MY OPINION** that it should not be allowed in MMORPG's. So those people should be able to force themselves on a group they "don't fit in", basically wasting a whole group's time to get **what THEY want**? It goes both ways you know: players who join groups while lying about their experience or not answering the group's requirements are damaging the game! That's why I think casual play should not be allowed n MMORPG's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > They are supposed to learn through trial and error if that's on the description of said LFG. It's all in the words, it takes a few moments of your time to read the LFG listings and find one that suits you and it's every player's right to create an LFG with specific requirements. Unsuspected newcomers should join groups for unsuspecting newcomers and don't expect anything from the groups they join. > > Simple reading of basic English is all that is required to not have any problems. The "damage", as you call it, only happens when there is a reading comprehension issue. That is an other thing entirely. Stop pulling things out of context and twist what i wrote into something else. We are talking about DPS-meters and how they are misused... not about toxicity in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Maunzi.3764 said: > If people with a meta mindset would _stop_ messing with groups clearly labeled as "casual" or "fun run", there'd be no issue. Nobody forces these people to join groups with newbies. And yet they keep blindly joining the first group in the LFG, and freaking out that it's not a speedrun. Honestly I don't think "meta players" join casual runs and if some do that they deserve to be reported and then punished. But if the "meta player" is an actual meta player they will join a meta group, that's better for them too. Otherwise they are trolls. It gets worse when players join an experienced run thinking they are experienced but in reality they are not. And that's the top LFG problem, players thinking that they are skilled because they copied a meta build, but never practiced rotations, using meta food and so on. Using those doesn't make you a good player, in fact it's the opposite. And yet they try to enter experienced runs then get kicked when the DPS-meters show their clear lack of knowledge of their selected builds. Those are good kicks, if you get kicked long enough, maybe you'll get the idea, that you are probably not as good as you think you are. And then we have players who refuse to communicate with their team. When an Elementalist joins an experienced group, they are expected to be at the top of the DPS chart. If they are using an Auramancer build maybe they should communicate that with their team so they adjust accordingly. Those WSAD buttons on the keyboard aren't only used to move your character but you can type in-game too. Communication solves half of these problems, and proper reading comprehension the other half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Coconut.7082 said: > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > > > > > DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. > > > > Exactly! > > > > Its a problem that is caused by people that couldn't care less who they insult and damage in order to get **what THEY want**. That is why it is **MY OPINION** that it should not be allowed in MMORPG's. > > So those people should be able to force themselves on a group they "don't fit in", basically wasting a whole group's time to get **what THEY want**? > > It goes both ways you know: players who join groups while lying about their experience or not answering the group's requirements are damaging the game! That's why I think casual play should not be allowed n MMORPG's. People should be able to play by whatever means as long as it isn't through harassment. Using DPS-meters to spy on, and call out people is what i call harassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > At the end of my leveling process i am geared by the game i play and ready to enter endgame. So it is basically the games way i am going to play. No, you really aren't. > @Abakk.9176 said: > But apparantly i should have studied certain laws and mechanics through whatever obscure means that are imposed on me by some gang that uses 3rd party software to spy on me and hinder me in going any further if i refuse their rogue laws. That's the thing, levelling can only teach you that much about certain mechanics, namely the combat mechanics of the game. Out of necessity, the levelling process is easy enough so it never really pushes you to actually learn the game. Hence, you definitely aren't ready to plunge into the endgame by this point. You're not even at the point where the 3rd party software becomes useful. On a side note, I really love how people complaining about their way of play being rejected very strongly imply their way of play is the "right" one, effectively rejecting every other approach to the game. Hilarious, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > > > They are supposed to learn through trial and error if that's on the description of said LFG. It's all in the words, it takes a few moments of your time to read the LFG listings and find one that suits you and it's every player's right to create an LFG with specific requirements. Unsuspected newcomers should join groups for unsuspecting newcomers and don't expect anything from the groups they join. > > > > Simple reading of basic English is all that is required to not have any problems. The "damage", as you call it, only happens when there is a reading comprehension issue. > > That is an other thing entirely. Stop pulling things out of context and twist what i wrote into something else. > > We are talking about DPS-meters and how they are misused... not about toxicity in general. > > You said and maybe I should quote again: "Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error" And I'm telling you that the LFG IS NOT to learn through trial and error unless it's a group about learning through trial and error. I'm not twisting anything this is exactly what you said. Read your own posts if you are having trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > LFG is not so good because that is where the damage is done. > > > Everyone and their mother comes in through LFG and there people are supposed to learn through trial and error. > > > > They are supposed to learn through trial and error if that's on the description of said LFG. It's all in the words, it takes a few moments of your time to read the LFG listings and find one that suits you and it's every player's right to create an LFG with specific requirements. Unsuspected newcomers should join groups for unsuspecting newcomers and don't expect anything from the groups they join. > > > > Simple reading of basic English is all that is required to not have any problems. The "damage", as you call it, only happens when there is a reading comprehension issue. > > That is an other thing entirely. Stop pulling things out of context and twist what i wrote into something else. > > We are talking about DPS-meters and how they are misused... not about toxicity in general. > > Except it really isn't another thing entirely. The whole debate stems from the simple fact people disregard LFG descriptions and join groups where they simply won't fit. If "exp" parties were only ever joined by actual experienced people, there would be no such thing as elitism. There would be no reason for it. But it was a cute attempt to flip the blame on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @Coconut.7082 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > > > > > > > DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > > > Its a problem that is caused by people that couldn't care less who they insult and damage in order to get **what THEY want**. That is why it is **MY OPINION** that it should not be allowed in MMORPG's. > > > > So those people should be able to force themselves on a group they "don't fit in", basically wasting a whole group's time to get **what THEY want**? > > > > It goes both ways you know: players who join groups while lying about their experience or not answering the group's requirements are damaging the game! That's why I think casual play should not be allowed n MMORPG's. > > People should be able to play by whatever means as long as it isn't through harassment. Using DPS-meters to spy on, and call out people is what i call harassment. > > > > Players joining groups that are not for them and then expecting to be carried and not kicked is also harassment. In that case DPS-meters prevent harassment, not cause it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconut.7082 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 > @Abakk.9176 said: > > @Coconut.7082 said: > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Abakk.9176 said: > > > > > DPS-meters spying on others are an affront. The data is used to harass other players and that disgusts me in a way i can't even express in nice wording. > > > > > > > > DPS-meter data is used to filter out players that do not know how to read and join groups that aren't meant for them. That's not a problem caused by the meters. > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > > > Its a problem that is caused by people that couldn't care less who they insult and damage in order to get **what THEY want**. That is why it is **MY OPINION** that it should not be allowed in MMORPG's. > > > > So those people should be able to force themselves on a group they "don't fit in", basically wasting a whole group's time to get **what THEY want**? > > > > It goes both ways you know: players who join groups while lying about their experience or not answering the group's requirements are damaging the game! That's why I think casual play should not be allowed n MMORPG's. > > People should be able to play by whatever means as long as it isn't through harassment. Using DPS-meters to spy on, and call out people is what i call harassment. > > > > Lying your way into a group and wasting other people's time is what I call harassment, is that fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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