First impressions on the Patch

[Lily.1935]

So I really hate to be negative after recieving quite a bit of buffs that were geared toward PvE, however I do have to say that the changes although they seem like a lot are actually quite conservative in the long run.

 

# **Power and Reaper**

There is a conflict of interest in how the traits here are aligned. I decided to test the changes out and although the DPS on the reaper has a net gain the gain isn't honestly as much as you might think. While you gain Awaken the pain to increase power you lose the bonus from Axe mastery. A conflict that pushes you to take Awaken the pain every time since its just going to be a stronger increase overall. Although its a nice trait and I think its absolutely needed it competing with Axe is sorta a bit of a killer for me. The reaper also has the same problem as Scourge now in that they don't genorate life force quite fast enough to take advantage of where most the buffs are placed. So although they have about a 30% DPS increase while in shroud taking into account the decay rate along with that its likely closer to a 10% increase, which is far less impressive. Now that's just a rough estimate but in testing I found that the increase was marginal at best.

The Signet trait is also more Gimmicky than actually useful. Going from a solid PvP trait to a bad PvE trait to a still bad PvE trait it just doesn't have the impact it needs to really push its use. I thought I might be able to be cute with Signet of Vampirism but it doesn't seem to be that effective.

One thing I'd like Anet to change on this is make the decay rate of shroud be based on your base health and not a flat percentage which could allow for some more interesting shroud play with reaper. It would mean their DPS would be abysmal out of shroud but that would be the pay off because as it stands right now, not much has changed.

 

# **Scourge**

When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct. Their is little to no increase here either and absolutely no changes to put scourge into a valuable support role either so there isn't even that to fall back on. The Decay rate of Barrier starting after 2 seconds rather than 1 is.... Fine, but I'd have rather just had better access and better skills to apply it with. For me, I was of the opinion that the decay rate was fine, but our access to applying it to allies was seriously lacking. This hasn't changed.

 

The reaper was the primary focus for this patch and now I feel it does compete with the scourge spec, both seem to be on fairly equal footing, but considering that the scourge was still behind in PvE both are still behind. And that's really sad for me to say. Now, I'm not going to just say that there isn't anything good because I think Anet is starting to go down the right path, But they haven't quite figured it out yet.

 

Hey anet! Let me give you some help. Play magic the gathering. Look at the philosophy of the color black. Black can either be super sustain, stealing life and never dying or Blitz through their own life, hand size and creatures to cause Massive harm. They struggle to do both, and most frequently can't. I keep saying a catch phrase which comes from Magic, and one of the most powerful cards in their modern format. Dark confidant's flavor "Power at any cost." And considering how many games Dark Confidant has killed the user yet is considered worth it you should know just how much black players are willing to sacrifice for power. And that is a good chunk of the player base who mains necromancer in GW2. We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain. We don't have the massive gain and the necromancer is still much too safe of a profession. Let us be Dark Confidant!

 

# _**"Greatness at any cost!"**_

 

Edit: Got the Quote wrong, fixed at the end.

[kKagari.6804]

I think the SoS change isn't a 'still bad PvE trait', but more of a 'niche PvP trait', if we're categorizing things. The trait IMO isn't inherently bad, but the problem is it begs you to equip more signets, and the signets themselves are quite niche to begin with.

 

And as I said in another thread, the changes themselves aren't fantastic, but the direction is good. Some extra cohesion between blood and curses is very welcome, and if more changes are geared this way, our options will be better.

[Aetatis.5418]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> So I really hate to be negative after recieving quite a bit of buffs that were geared toward PvE, however I do have to say that the changes although they seem like a lot are actually quite conservative in the long run.

>

> # **Power and Reaper**

> There is a conflict of interest in how the traits here are aligned. I decided to test the changes out and although the DPS on the reaper has a net gain the gain isn't honestly as much as you might think. While you gain Awaken the pain to increase power you lose the bonus from Axe mastery. A conflict that pushes you to take Awaken the pain every time since its just going to be a stronger increase overall. Although its a nice trait and I think its absolutely needed it competing with Axe is sorta a bit of a killer for me. The reaper also has the same problem as Scourge now in that they don't genorate life force quite fast enough to take advantage of where most the buffs are placed. So although they have about a 30% DPS increase while in shroud taking into account the decay rate along with that its likely closer to a 10% increase, which is far less impressive. Now that's just a rough estimate but in testing I found that the increase was marginal at best.

> The Signet trait is also more Gimmicky than actually useful. Going from a solid PvP trait to a bad PvE trait to a still bad PvE trait it just doesn't have the impact it needs to really push its use. I thought I might be able to be cute with Signet of Vampirism but it doesn't seem to be that effective.

> One thing I'd like Anet to change on this is make the decay rate of shroud be based on your base health and not a flat percentage which could allow for some more interesting shroud play with reaper. It would mean their DPS would be abysmal out of shroud but that would be the pay off because as it stands right now, not much has changed.

>

> # **Scourge**

> When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct. Their is little to no increase here either and absolutely no changes to put scourge into a valuable support role either so there isn't even that to fall back on. The Decay rate of Barrier starting after 2 seconds rather than 1 is.... Fine, but I'd have rather just had better access and better skills to apply it with. For me, I was of the opinion that the decay rate was fine, but our access to applying it to allies was seriously lacking. This hasn't changed.

>

> The reaper was the primary focus for this patch and now I feel it does compete with the scourge spec, both seem to be on fairly equal footing, but considering that the scourge was still behind in PvE both are still behind. And that's really sad for me to say. Now, I'm not going to just say that there isn't anything good because I think Anet is starting to go down the right path, But they haven't quite figured it out yet.

>

> Hey anet! Let me give you some help. Play magic the gathering. Look at the philosophy of the color black. Black can either be super sustain, stealing life and never dying or Blitz through their own life, hand size and creatures to cause Massive harm. They struggle to do both, and most frequently can't. I keep saying a catch phrase which comes from Magic, and one of the most powerful cards in their modern format. Dark confidant's flavor "Power at any cost." And considering how many games Dark Confidant has killed the user yet is considered worth it you should know just how much black players are willing to sacrifice for power. And that is a good chunk of the player base who mains necromancer in GW2. We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain. We don't have the massive gain and the necromancer is still much too safe of a profession. Let us be Dark Confidant!

>

> # _**"Greatness at any cost!"**_

>

> Edit: Got the Quote wrong, fixed at the end.

 

if you are saying axe trait competes with new traits IN shroud... nope. axe trait hasnt been counting towards shroud for quite a while. neither reaper shroud nor deathshroud. the new might-trait is infact really strong in and out of shroud. which makes it mandatory at all times, if you play power core/power reaper

it just happens that it doesnt push reaper any closer towards raid dmg. neither shroud dps (part of it is the decay) nor the boost on GS coupled with 40 power per might stack.

BUT it is something.

 

the LF generation is now a bit too low indeed. like the shroud decreases faster than holo heat builds up and does NOT add the same amount of dmg. good thing is, shroud is not a dps loss anymore. even if one uses it defensively, its not a loss of dmg.

 

scourge however... meh. didnt like it anyway xD

[Lily.1935]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> I think the SoS change isn't a 'still bad PvE trait', but more of a 'niche PvP trait', if we're categorizing things. The trait IMO isn't inherently bad, but the problem is it begs you to equip more signets, and the signets themselves are quite niche to begin with.

>

> And as I said in another thread, the changes themselves aren't fantastic, but the direction is good. Some extra cohesion between blood and curses is very welcome, and if more changes are geared this way, our options will be better.

 

NO disagreement there.

[Lily.1935]

> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > @Lily.1935 said:

> > So I really hate to be negative after recieving quite a bit of buffs that were geared toward PvE, however I do have to say that the changes although they seem like a lot are actually quite conservative in the long run.

> >

> > # **Power and Reaper**

> > There is a conflict of interest in how the traits here are aligned. I decided to test the changes out and although the DPS on the reaper has a net gain the gain isn't honestly as much as you might think. While you gain Awaken the pain to increase power you lose the bonus from Axe mastery. A conflict that pushes you to take Awaken the pain every time since its just going to be a stronger increase overall. Although its a nice trait and I think its absolutely needed it competing with Axe is sorta a bit of a killer for me. The reaper also has the same problem as Scourge now in that they don't genorate life force quite fast enough to take advantage of where most the buffs are placed. So although they have about a 30% DPS increase while in shroud taking into account the decay rate along with that its likely closer to a 10% increase, which is far less impressive. Now that's just a rough estimate but in testing I found that the increase was marginal at best.

> > The Signet trait is also more Gimmicky than actually useful. Going from a solid PvP trait to a bad PvE trait to a still bad PvE trait it just doesn't have the impact it needs to really push its use. I thought I might be able to be cute with Signet of Vampirism but it doesn't seem to be that effective.

> > One thing I'd like Anet to change on this is make the decay rate of shroud be based on your base health and not a flat percentage which could allow for some more interesting shroud play with reaper. It would mean their DPS would be abysmal out of shroud but that would be the pay off because as it stands right now, not much has changed.

> >

> > # **Scourge**

> > When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct. Their is little to no increase here either and absolutely no changes to put scourge into a valuable support role either so there isn't even that to fall back on. The Decay rate of Barrier starting after 2 seconds rather than 1 is.... Fine, but I'd have rather just had better access and better skills to apply it with. For me, I was of the opinion that the decay rate was fine, but our access to applying it to allies was seriously lacking. This hasn't changed.

> >

> > The reaper was the primary focus for this patch and now I feel it does compete with the scourge spec, both seem to be on fairly equal footing, but considering that the scourge was still behind in PvE both are still behind. And that's really sad for me to say. Now, I'm not going to just say that there isn't anything good because I think Anet is starting to go down the right path, But they haven't quite figured it out yet.

> >

> > Hey anet! Let me give you some help. Play magic the gathering. Look at the philosophy of the color black. Black can either be super sustain, stealing life and never dying or Blitz through their own life, hand size and creatures to cause Massive harm. They struggle to do both, and most frequently can't. I keep saying a catch phrase which comes from Magic, and one of the most powerful cards in their modern format. Dark confidant's flavor "Power at any cost." And considering how many games Dark Confidant has killed the user yet is considered worth it you should know just how much black players are willing to sacrifice for power. And that is a good chunk of the player base who mains necromancer in GW2. We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain. We don't have the massive gain and the necromancer is still much too safe of a profession. Let us be Dark Confidant!

> >

> > # _**"Greatness at any cost!"**_

> >

> > Edit: Got the Quote wrong, fixed at the end.

>

> if you are saying axe trait competes with new traits IN shroud... nope. axe trait hasnt been counting towards shroud for quite a while. neither reaper shroud nor deathshroud. the new might-trait is infact really strong in and out of shroud. which makes it mandatory at all times, if you play power core/power reaper

> it just happens that it doesnt push reaper any closer towards raid dmg. neither shroud dps (part of it is the decay) nor the boost on GS coupled with 40 power per might stack.

> BUT it is something.

>

> the LF generation is now a bit too low indeed. like the shroud decreases faster than holo heat builds up and does NOT add the same amount of dmg. good thing is, shroud is not a dps loss anymore. even if one uses it defensively, its not a loss of dmg.

>

> scourge however... meh. didnt like it anyway xD

 

I wasn't Suggesting that Axe did have the bonus while in reaper's shroud. I knew it didn't, however Axe is a part of the power rotation so it is competing.

[TheBandit.7031]

No one seems to have mentioned the fact that this was an all out nerf for condition players. Doesn't seem like they considered that builds other than power get used by necromancer.

[Obtena.7952]

I'm very disappointed that Anet didn't see that all the traits they changed to increase DPS conflict with already existing DPS traits ... or that no one would figure out they gave less shroud uptime where they put most DPS increases. Anyone that thinks any of this is good hasn't been paying attention to their own complaints.

[Marxx.5021]

Placing matches are as bad as ever. Playing with 2 player teams who have a mate with only half the mmr is so stupid random.

[Aetatis.5418]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> > @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > > @Lily.1935 said:

> > > So I really hate to be negative after recieving quite a bit of buffs that were geared toward PvE, however I do have to say that the changes although they seem like a lot are actually quite conservative in the long run.

> > >

> > > # **Power and Reaper**

> > > There is a conflict of interest in how the traits here are aligned. I decided to test the changes out and although the DPS on the reaper has a net gain the gain isn't honestly as much as you might think. While you gain Awaken the pain to increase power you lose the bonus from Axe mastery. A conflict that pushes you to take Awaken the pain every time since its just going to be a stronger increase overall. Although its a nice trait and I think its absolutely needed it competing with Axe is sorta a bit of a killer for me. The reaper also has the same problem as Scourge now in that they don't genorate life force quite fast enough to take advantage of where most the buffs are placed. So although they have about a 30% DPS increase while in shroud taking into account the decay rate along with that its likely closer to a 10% increase, which is far less impressive. Now that's just a rough estimate but in testing I found that the increase was marginal at best.

> > > The Signet trait is also more Gimmicky than actually useful. Going from a solid PvP trait to a bad PvE trait to a still bad PvE trait it just doesn't have the impact it needs to really push its use. I thought I might be able to be cute with Signet of Vampirism but it doesn't seem to be that effective.

> > > One thing I'd like Anet to change on this is make the decay rate of shroud be based on your base health and not a flat percentage which could allow for some more interesting shroud play with reaper. It would mean their DPS would be abysmal out of shroud but that would be the pay off because as it stands right now, not much has changed.

> > >

> > > # **Scourge**

> > > When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct. Their is little to no increase here either and absolutely no changes to put scourge into a valuable support role either so there isn't even that to fall back on. The Decay rate of Barrier starting after 2 seconds rather than 1 is.... Fine, but I'd have rather just had better access and better skills to apply it with. For me, I was of the opinion that the decay rate was fine, but our access to applying it to allies was seriously lacking. This hasn't changed.

> > >

> > > The reaper was the primary focus for this patch and now I feel it does compete with the scourge spec, both seem to be on fairly equal footing, but considering that the scourge was still behind in PvE both are still behind. And that's really sad for me to say. Now, I'm not going to just say that there isn't anything good because I think Anet is starting to go down the right path, But they haven't quite figured it out yet.

> > >

> > > Hey anet! Let me give you some help. Play magic the gathering. Look at the philosophy of the color black. Black can either be super sustain, stealing life and never dying or Blitz through their own life, hand size and creatures to cause Massive harm. They struggle to do both, and most frequently can't. I keep saying a catch phrase which comes from Magic, and one of the most powerful cards in their modern format. Dark confidant's flavor "Power at any cost." And considering how many games Dark Confidant has killed the user yet is considered worth it you should know just how much black players are willing to sacrifice for power. And that is a good chunk of the player base who mains necromancer in GW2. We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain. We don't have the massive gain and the necromancer is still much too safe of a profession. Let us be Dark Confidant!

> > >

> > > # _**"Greatness at any cost!"**_

> > >

> > > Edit: Got the Quote wrong, fixed at the end.

> >

> > if you are saying axe trait competes with new traits IN shroud... nope. axe trait hasnt been counting towards shroud for quite a while. neither reaper shroud nor deathshroud. the new might-trait is infact really strong in and out of shroud. which makes it mandatory at all times, if you play power core/power reaper

> > it just happens that it doesnt push reaper any closer towards raid dmg. neither shroud dps (part of it is the decay) nor the boost on GS coupled with 40 power per might stack.

> > BUT it is something.

> >

> > the LF generation is now a bit too low indeed. like the shroud decreases faster than holo heat builds up and does NOT add the same amount of dmg. good thing is, shroud is not a dps loss anymore. even if one uses it defensively, its not a loss of dmg.

> >

> > scourge however... meh. didnt like it anyway xD

>

> I wasn't Suggesting that Axe did have the bonus while in reaper's shroud. I knew it didn't, however Axe is a part of the power rotation so it is competing.

 

sry but thats not competition. axe trait is less good now only. a trait that gives 10% extra on one skill (because you are using one skill on axe only in that rotation)... vs a trait that increases dmg on all of your skills as long as you have some might. and you will have might a lot - more so in grp-oriented gameplay.

 

if you are soloing only this could be somewhat of a small competition. but with sigils/food/runes the new trait can be exploited to a big extend...

 

but it is nice, that chill of death remains the trait that synergizes well with conditions :)

[Lily.1935]

> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > @Lily.1935 said:

> > > @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > > > @Lily.1935 said:

> > > > So I really hate to be negative after recieving quite a bit of buffs that were geared toward PvE, however I do have to say that the changes although they seem like a lot are actually quite conservative in the long run.

> > > >

> > > > # **Power and Reaper**

> > > > There is a conflict of interest in how the traits here are aligned. I decided to test the changes out and although the DPS on the reaper has a net gain the gain isn't honestly as much as you might think. While you gain Awaken the pain to increase power you lose the bonus from Axe mastery. A conflict that pushes you to take Awaken the pain every time since its just going to be a stronger increase overall. Although its a nice trait and I think its absolutely needed it competing with Axe is sorta a bit of a killer for me. The reaper also has the same problem as Scourge now in that they don't genorate life force quite fast enough to take advantage of where most the buffs are placed. So although they have about a 30% DPS increase while in shroud taking into account the decay rate along with that its likely closer to a 10% increase, which is far less impressive. Now that's just a rough estimate but in testing I found that the increase was marginal at best.

> > > > The Signet trait is also more Gimmicky than actually useful. Going from a solid PvP trait to a bad PvE trait to a still bad PvE trait it just doesn't have the impact it needs to really push its use. I thought I might be able to be cute with Signet of Vampirism but it doesn't seem to be that effective.

> > > > One thing I'd like Anet to change on this is make the decay rate of shroud be based on your base health and not a flat percentage which could allow for some more interesting shroud play with reaper. It would mean their DPS would be abysmal out of shroud but that would be the pay off because as it stands right now, not much has changed.

> > > >

> > > > # **Scourge**

> > > > When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct. Their is little to no increase here either and absolutely no changes to put scourge into a valuable support role either so there isn't even that to fall back on. The Decay rate of Barrier starting after 2 seconds rather than 1 is.... Fine, but I'd have rather just had better access and better skills to apply it with. For me, I was of the opinion that the decay rate was fine, but our access to applying it to allies was seriously lacking. This hasn't changed.

> > > >

> > > > The reaper was the primary focus for this patch and now I feel it does compete with the scourge spec, both seem to be on fairly equal footing, but considering that the scourge was still behind in PvE both are still behind. And that's really sad for me to say. Now, I'm not going to just say that there isn't anything good because I think Anet is starting to go down the right path, But they haven't quite figured it out yet.

> > > >

> > > > Hey anet! Let me give you some help. Play magic the gathering. Look at the philosophy of the color black. Black can either be super sustain, stealing life and never dying or Blitz through their own life, hand size and creatures to cause Massive harm. They struggle to do both, and most frequently can't. I keep saying a catch phrase which comes from Magic, and one of the most powerful cards in their modern format. Dark confidant's flavor "Power at any cost." And considering how many games Dark Confidant has killed the user yet is considered worth it you should know just how much black players are willing to sacrifice for power. And that is a good chunk of the player base who mains necromancer in GW2. We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain. We don't have the massive gain and the necromancer is still much too safe of a profession. Let us be Dark Confidant!

> > > >

> > > > # _**"Greatness at any cost!"**_

> > > >

> > > > Edit: Got the Quote wrong, fixed at the end.

> > >

> > > if you are saying axe trait competes with new traits IN shroud... nope. axe trait hasnt been counting towards shroud for quite a while. neither reaper shroud nor deathshroud. the new might-trait is infact really strong in and out of shroud. which makes it mandatory at all times, if you play power core/power reaper

> > > it just happens that it doesnt push reaper any closer towards raid dmg. neither shroud dps (part of it is the decay) nor the boost on GS coupled with 40 power per might stack.

> > > BUT it is something.

> > >

> > > the LF generation is now a bit too low indeed. like the shroud decreases faster than holo heat builds up and does NOT add the same amount of dmg. good thing is, shroud is not a dps loss anymore. even if one uses it defensively, its not a loss of dmg.

> > >

> > > scourge however... meh. didnt like it anyway xD

> >

> > I wasn't Suggesting that Axe did have the bonus while in reaper's shroud. I knew it didn't, however Axe is a part of the power rotation so it is competing.

>

> sry but thats not competition. axe trait is less good now only. a trait that gives 10% extra on one skill (because you are using one skill on axe only in that rotation)... vs a trait that increases dmg on all of your skills as long as you have some might. and you will have might a lot - more so in grp-oriented gameplay.

>

> if you are soloing only this could be somewhat of a small competition. but with sigils/food/runes the new trait can be exploited to a big extend...

>

> but it is nice, that chill of death remains the trait that synergizes well with conditions :)

 

I'm not arguing that it's good competition. My statement refers to the fact that those two traits are similar enough in function and that the builds that would want one would want the other. Now looking at other builds that might want spite of they don't want one of them would likely not want either. They are competing to do the same thing and axe mastery is just worse at it. I'm not saying they are on equal footing because they're not.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well... I think the main point of the balance patch for "PvE" is that most profession's max potential dps have been brought down by at least 10% While the necromancer's max potential dps stayed the same. It might be petty to say it but the reaper's potential is now close to mirage's and warrior's one. Warriors also lost a bit of their monopoly on might sharing which will force group to take more professions that share might. In short, the gap between the necromancer (and elite spec) and the other professions have been reduced a lot. And hopefully to the point that the necromancer end up being welcome in raids.

 

As for "PvP", changing the reaper into a glassier spec might end up being a pretty good balance idea... Well, I would have tone down the GS and change some of it's skills to balance things but... let's not complain. Scourge on another hand remaining mostly unchanged might be that the spec is where anet want it to be or most likely that they lacked time to really work on it.

 

The necromancer as a whole benefit a lot from the patch. Even if axe got the short end of the stick (objectively, axe wasn't nerfed at all) and _Plague sending_ lost a lot of it's power.

 

On a side note, _Spitefull spirit_ got even more boon corruption... Anet... Please stop it now...

 

I'm not convinced by the change on _signet of suffering_ and I feel that scourge would have needed more change to really separate scourge dps and scourge support but, their is hope, after all, they did a lot of work on reaper and that's huge. Now, if they could realize the same kind of work on Death shroud for the next balance patch, giving an identity to this shroud by balancing a bit it's skills, I would be delighted.

[Lily.1935]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> Well... I think the main point of the balance patch for "PvE" is that most profession's max potential dps have been brought down by at least 10% While the necromancer's max potential dps stayed the same. It might be petty to say it but the reaper's potential is now close to mirage's and warrior's one. Warriors also lost a bit of their monopoly on might sharing which will force group to take more professions that share might. In short, the gap between the necromancer (and elite spec) and the other professions have been reduced a lot. And hopefully to the point that the necromancer end up being welcome in raids.

>

> As for "PvP", changing the reaper into a glassier spec might end up being a pretty good balance idea... Well, I would have tone down the GS and change some of it's skills to balance things but... let's not complain. Scourge on another hand remaining mostly unchanged might be that the spec is where anet want it to be or most likely that they lacked time to really work on it.

>

> The necromancer as a whole benefit a lot from the patch. Even if axe got the short end of the stick (objectively, axe wasn't nerfed at all) and _Plague sending_ lost a lot of it's power.

>

> On a side note, _Spitefull spirit_ got even more boon corruption... Anet... Please stop it now...

>

> I'm not convinced by the change on _signet of suffering_ and I feel that scourge would have needed more change to really separate scourge dps and scourge support but, their is hope, after all, they did a lot of work on reaper and that's huge. Now, if they could realize the same kind of work on Death shroud for the next balance patch, giving an identity to this shroud by balancing a bit it's skills, I would be delighted.

 

I think you have a good point. However does this make necromancer worth it? And I'm on the fence about that.

[Maxzero.4032]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> Well... I think the main point of the balance patch for "PvE" is that most profession's max potential dps have been brought down by at least 10% While the necromancer's max potential dps stayed the same. It might be petty to say it but the reaper's potential is now close to mirage's and warrior's one. Warriors also lost a bit of their monopoly on might sharing which will force group to take more professions that share might. In short, the gap between the necromancer (and elite spec) and the other professions have been reduced a lot. And hopefully to the point that the necromancer end up being welcome in raids.

>

> As for "PvP", changing the reaper into a glassier spec might end up being a pretty good balance idea... Well, I would have tone down the GS and change some of it's skills to balance things but... let's not complain. Scourge on another hand remaining mostly unchanged might be that the spec is where anet want it to be or most likely that they lacked time to really work on it.

>

> The necromancer as a whole benefit a lot from the patch. Even if axe got the short end of the stick (objectively, axe wasn't nerfed at all) and _Plague sending_ lost a lot of it's power.

>

> On a side note, _Spitefull spirit_ got even more boon corruption... Anet... Please stop it now...

>

> I'm not convinced by the change on _signet of suffering_ and I feel that scourge would have needed more change to really separate scourge dps and scourge support but, their is hope, after all, they did a lot of work on reaper and that's huge. Now, if they could realize the same kind of work on Death shroud for the next balance patch, giving an identity to this shroud by balancing a bit it's skills, I would be delighted.

 

 

Guess who is wearing my ascended viper gear now?

 

[Kinch.6490]

Well, they never did define how much "some" was when talking about returning some of Scourge's DPS.

These are the same guys that say "we're buffing Power Necro, because it's under-performing" and proceed to buff Axe auto 5%.

 

Also:

ANet, please, for the love of God, change Lingering Curse so that the +150 Condi Damage is global, and not just tied to Scepter. It's a GM trait, for crying out loud!

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Maxzero.4032 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > Well... I think the main point of the balance patch for "PvE" is that most profession's max potential dps have been brought down by at least 10% While the necromancer's max potential dps stayed the same. It might be petty to say it but the reaper's potential is now close to mirage's and warrior's one. Warriors also lost a bit of their monopoly on might sharing which will force group to take more professions that share might. In short, the gap between the necromancer (and elite spec) and the other professions have been reduced a lot. And hopefully to the point that the necromancer end up being welcome in raids.

> >

> > As for "PvP", changing the reaper into a glassier spec might end up being a pretty good balance idea... Well, I would have tone down the GS and change some of it's skills to balance things but... let's not complain. Scourge on another hand remaining mostly unchanged might be that the spec is where anet want it to be or most likely that they lacked time to really work on it.

> >

> > The necromancer as a whole benefit a lot from the patch. Even if axe got the short end of the stick (objectively, axe wasn't nerfed at all) and _Plague sending_ lost a lot of it's power.

> >

> > On a side note, _Spitefull spirit_ got even more boon corruption... Anet... Please stop it now...

> >

> > I'm not convinced by the change on _signet of suffering_ and I feel that scourge would have needed more change to really separate scourge dps and scourge support but, their is hope, after all, they did a lot of work on reaper and that's huge. Now, if they could realize the same kind of work on Death shroud for the next balance patch, giving an identity to this shroud by balancing a bit it's skills, I would be delighted.

>

>

>

> Guess who is wearing my ascended viper gear now?

>

 

Let's not talk about large target, competitivity on small target is already a huge leap for a necromancer.

[mazut.4296]

Yep, the scourge "buffs" are disappointing to say the least. The open world/fractal power reaper is better with all the deaths that fuel it, but that's it. The overall buff is negated by the much shorted shroud. It's spike damage might be good in some pvp/wvw situations, but won't change much because the opponent still can kite/range, nothing is really changed there.

[Maunzi.3764]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> # **Scourge**

> When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct.

 

Were you? I am not so sure.

 

We got:

* A sizeable buff to F5, both for the direct damage portion, and the torment damage (which got doubled)

* Added burns with Dhuumfire

* Plague sending now works better with scourge

 

We do cause more damage than we did before the patch, while most other classes saw a drop. Make sure you compare our numbers to post-patch numbers of other classes, ignoring outliers like Mirage.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Maunzi.3764 said:

> > @Lily.1935 said:

> > # **Scourge**

> > When anet said "Some of the DPS will return" I was skeptical that it would get much of it back. And I was absolutely correct.

>

> Were you? I am not so sure.

>

> We got:

> * A sizeable buff to F5, both for the direct damage portion, and the torment damage (which got doubled)

> * Added burns with Dhuumfire

> * Plague sending now works better with scourge

>

> We do cause more damage than we did before the patch, while most other classes saw a drop. Make sure you compare our numbers to post-patch numbers of other classes, ignoring outliers like Mirage.

 

You didn't even read the downsides?

* Condi Reaper virtually removed from the game through Deathly Chill nerf

* Shroud is less viable as a defensive mechanism due to rapid degeneration of LF

* Impressive-looking numbers in the patch notes are negated by rapid degeneration of LF

[Maunzi.3764]

> @Svarty.8019 said:

> You didn't even read the downsides?

> * Condi Reaper virtually removed from the game through Deathly Chill nerf

> * Shroud is less viable as a defensive mechanism due to rapid degeneration of LF

> * Impressive-looking numbers in the patch notes are negated by rapid degeneration of LF

 

You didn't even read that my posting was replying to the Scourge subsection? It's in bold. Try reading it, and you will realize that none of the issues you mention impact scourge.

Stop whining because of patch notes, test it in the game. It performs much better than you think it does.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Maunzi.3764 said:

> > @Svarty.8019 said:

> > You didn't even read the downsides?

> > * Condi Reaper virtually removed from the game through Deathly Chill nerf

> > * Shroud is less viable as a defensive mechanism due to rapid degeneration of LF

> > * Impressive-looking numbers in the patch notes are negated by rapid degeneration of LF

>

> You didn't even read that my posting was replying to the Scourge subsection? It's in bold. Try reading it, and you will realize that none of the issues you mention impact scourge.

> Stop whining because of patch notes, test it in the game. It performs much better than you think it does.

 

Fair enough.

[Ara.4569]

> @Lily.1935 said:

>We are that sort of player who'll bring ourselves down into the red in life, we are the ones willing to put ourselves in harms way for massive gain.

You got me, I rush mid dropping all wells with a glass canon build for the 72 virgins. But so far they are eluding me, and all I get are insults. :(

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I'm ok with it, when I'm out numbered I really shine like a nightmare monster now. I do respectable damage outside of shroud and take out half their numbers, go into shroud and focus on the toughest mob in the pack, after that I either kill ever thing else in a race to down state or I come back like Jason Voorhees from downed state with a full life force bar (then everything is really kittened).

 

Yeah before I was tanky but everything hit like a training sword, now I feel like Michael Myers and mow through things at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm still tanky with my wells that give healing and protection.

 

Keep in mind I only PVE, I've never WvWvW.

[Laiboch.4380]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> Well... I think the main point of the balance patch for "PvE" is that most profession's max potential dps have been brought down by at least 10% While the necromancer's max potential dps stayed the same. It might be petty to say it but the reaper's potential is now close to mirage's and warrior's one. Warriors also lost a bit of their monopoly on might sharing which will force group to take more professions that share might. In short, the gap between the necromancer (and elite spec) and the other professions have been reduced a lot. And hopefully to the point that the necromancer end up being welcome in raids.

 

Yes, and now Druid will fill that spot.

[Kuya.6495]

why is anyone complaining about the condi reaper nerfs? didn't we know like literally months ago that they intended to make scourge the condi spec and reaper the power spec?

[Crinn.7864]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> I'm very disappointed that Anet didn't see that all the traits they changed to increase DPS conflict with already existing DPS traits ... or that no one would figure out they gave less shroud uptime where they put most DPS increases. Anyone that thinks any of this is good hasn't been paying attention to their own complaints.

 

The point is to promote usage of shroud, not the camping of shroud.

 

idk why this forum has a obsession with being able to camp shroud 24/7