Reaper in World vs. World

[Rudra.6932]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> There are more than 3 builds that counter Power Reaper ANY ranged build. condi or Power counters Reaper. Easy to kite. Easy to lock down. Easy to melt from range.

>

> As for Scourge. They are even easier to kill as a ranged person. I havent lost a single fight to a Scourge on my Soulbeast or Chrono.

 

As a Reaper if you are engaging ranged classes on their terms, as in they have plenty of room to kite or you don't have any line of sight then you are playing it wrong. Sure ranged classes can kill you if you don't pick your fighting place wisely but they in no way hard counter you if you choose your place to fight properly. The 3 builds I mentioned will hard counter power reaper regardless of where you choose to fight.

 

A longbow druid is more threatening to me as a power reaper or Scourge than a Soulbeast. Honestly I can't recall any particular Soulbeast that gave me a lot of pain, but I have vivid memories of Longbow druids picking me off when I was caught in a bad position. Maybe I haven't faced that many good Soulbeasts yet.

 

Chronomancer, for me can go either ways. Condi Mirage is more problematic to deal with in my experience than Condi Chrono.

[Obtena.7952]

> @ilmau.9781 said:

> > @Zero.3871 said:

> > > @ilmau.9781 said:

> > > I do understand you guys want Reaper to be a power based spec, so i understand that you guys increased the damage output, but at what price?!?!?! The drawbacks are insane!!!

> > >

> > > Speaking about WvW you completely killed the whole Reaper Specialization!!!

> > >

> > > You completely killed the Condi Reaper build by changing Deathly Chill and reducing the number of whirl finishers on Soul Spiral from 6 to 4, and please take note, this is not a "nerf", this is a total destruction of the build itself, now no more playeable by any mean.

> > >

> > > You also created a new Reaper power based spec, but again with a so fast decay of life force is still impossible to play. You just die out of no where, most of the time not even have enougth life force to complete all the 5 Reaper Shroud skills.

> > >

> > > But hey you created a new spec, the Scourge, who is 1.000 times better than as Reaper is now. So, where is the balance? what is the meaning of all this??

> >

> > i can cast all of my shroud skills. power weapons have a very high life force regeneration, so you can use all of your lifeforce per shroud activation, whose duration can be increased by spectral armor. the rotation on power reaper is faster than condi reaper, but not worse.

>

> well i do start thinking we are not playin the same game. Ok for the rotation stuff i know how it works after 6k hours, what i am telling here is that is not possible to stay alive in melee range and since Reaper is melee class this is kinda useless change for both WvW and PvP, also compared to how broken Scourge is. Noone is about to struggle to try to do something with a Reaper as long as Scourge works so well compared. I am talking about diversity and balance, that is something Anet totally miss, i do not know if they do that on purpose or beaoucouse they have no idea what they are doing, still the result is the same. Game is kitten as it is now and every patch they turn it even more kitten.

 

No, I think it's still the same game, just a different player ability. The big difference here is accepting the kinds of things you can be good at. For example, I would be less inclined to do solo roaming as a Reaper now. That certainly doesn't exclude Reaper as a useful thing to play in WvW.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Rudra.6932 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > There are more than 3 builds that counter Power Reaper ANY ranged build. condi or Power counters Reaper. Easy to kite. Easy to lock down. Easy to melt from range.

> >

> > As for Scourge. They are even easier to kill as a ranged person. I havent lost a single fight to a Scourge on my Soulbeast or Chrono.

>

> As a Reaper if you are engaging ranged classes on their terms, as in they have plenty of room to kite or you don't have any line of sight then you are playing it wrong. Sure ranged classes can kill you if you don't pick your fighting place wisely but they in no way hard counter you if you choose your place to fight properly. The 3 builds I mentioned will hard counter power reaper regardless of where you choose to fight.

>

> A longbow druid is more threatening to me as a power reaper or Scourge than a Soulbeast. Honestly I can't recall any particular Soulbeast that gave me a lot of pain, but I have vivid memories of Longbow druids picking me off when I was caught in a bad position. Maybe I haven't faced that many good Soulbeasts yet.

>

> Chronomancer, for me can go either ways. Condi Mirage is more problematic to deal with in my experience than Condi Chrono.

 

You dont have the mobility to choose your fights. If a ranged person sees you. You're 99% likely to be in a fight and being in a ranged fight is a VERY big disadvantage. You cant really "choose" your fights in WvW roaming. If you are jumped. You are dead. There is ZERO balance when it comes to Necro Vs Ranged fight. None.

 

Long Bow Soulbeast will output more burst damage than a Long Bow Druid. I can do 10-14k+ Rabid Fire, 4-5k Long Bow auto attacks, I have stealth, CC (ranged and melee) i LOTS of condi removal. my Heal alone removes 14. I have several leap abilities as well.

 

Too be fair, there arent many Soul beasts about, mostly due to all the bugs and issues the spec has but i found Reapers and Scourge among the easiest builds to fight. If i jump them, its easy. If i get jumped. Its tougher but i have the skills needed to counter the condition burst, the stealth to reposition and the burst to melt face.

 

As for Chrono, mine is Hybrid CC heavy with Staff and Scepter/Shield. So plenty of blocks, CC mobility and the laser beam of death doing 10k+ always get people off guard lol

[Obtena.7952]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Rudra.6932 said:

> > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > There are more than 3 builds that counter Power Reaper ANY ranged build. condi or Power counters Reaper. Easy to kite. Easy to lock down. Easy to melt from range.

> > >

> > > As for Scourge. They are even easier to kill as a ranged person. I havent lost a single fight to a Scourge on my Soulbeast or Chrono.

> >

> > As a Reaper if you are engaging ranged classes on their terms, as in they have plenty of room to kite or you don't have any line of sight then you are playing it wrong. Sure ranged classes can kill you if you don't pick your fighting place wisely but they in no way hard counter you if you choose your place to fight properly. The 3 builds I mentioned will hard counter power reaper regardless of where you choose to fight.

> >

> > A longbow druid is more threatening to me as a power reaper or Scourge than a Soulbeast. Honestly I can't recall any particular Soulbeast that gave me a lot of pain, but I have vivid memories of Longbow druids picking me off when I was caught in a bad position. Maybe I haven't faced that many good Soulbeasts yet.

> >

> > Chronomancer, for me can go either ways. Condi Mirage is more problematic to deal with in my experience than Condi Chrono.

>

> You dont have the mobility to choose your fights. If a ranged person sees you. You're 99% likely to be in a fight and being in a ranged fight is a VERY big disadvantage.

 

Solo? Sure ... so you better get thinking about how you play Reaper in WvW and interact with your side better to mitigate that risk if you insist on using Reaper. Obviously you can't do the same thing you were before the patch ...

 

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > @Rudra.6932 said:

> > > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > > There are more than 3 builds that counter Power Reaper ANY ranged build. condi or Power counters Reaper. Easy to kite. Easy to lock down. Easy to melt from range.

> > > >

> > > > As for Scourge. They are even easier to kill as a ranged person. I havent lost a single fight to a Scourge on my Soulbeast or Chrono.

> > >

> > > As a Reaper if you are engaging ranged classes on their terms, as in they have plenty of room to kite or you don't have any line of sight then you are playing it wrong. Sure ranged classes can kill you if you don't pick your fighting place wisely but they in no way hard counter you if you choose your place to fight properly. The 3 builds I mentioned will hard counter power reaper regardless of where you choose to fight.

> > >

> > > A longbow druid is more threatening to me as a power reaper or Scourge than a Soulbeast. Honestly I can't recall any particular Soulbeast that gave me a lot of pain, but I have vivid memories of Longbow druids picking me off when I was caught in a bad position. Maybe I haven't faced that many good Soulbeasts yet.

> > >

> > > Chronomancer, for me can go either ways. Condi Mirage is more problematic to deal with in my experience than Condi Chrono.

> >

> > You dont have the mobility to choose your fights. If a ranged person sees you. You're 99% likely to be in a fight and being in a ranged fight is a VERY big disadvantage.

>

> Solo? Sure ... so you better get thinking about how you play Reaper in WvW and interact with your side better to mitigate that risk if you insist on using Reaper. Obviously you can't do the same thing you were before the patch ...

>

>

 

So now we are fine with Reaper being excluded from Raids and excluded from WvW solo roaming...and excluded from PvP...

 

What are we going to accept next?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Solo? Sure ... so you better get thinking about how you play Reaper in WvW and interact with your side better to mitigate that risk if you insist on using Reaper. Obviously you can't do the same thing you were before the patch ...

 

So, Reaper, Necro, Scourge. Its not a class/spec that can be played solo. Gotcha. Says something about balance. I personally play my Hybrid Cele Scourge solo. I die to pretty much anyone that is ranged. Nothing to do with skill what so ever and everything to do with bad game design so those deaths dont bother me at all. When someone is in melee i do well. I can do really well against Boon heavy builds. Got good direct damage, solid condition damage as well.

 

Though to be fair your "obviously you cant do the same thing you were before the patch" is VERY silly in my opinion. Even before the patch Ranged classes were ALWAYS the bane of Reaper, Necro and Scourge. They ALWAYS have been and until Anet GIVE the Necro class (at Necro level and not elite spec!) actual DEFENSE against ranged then it will stay as being that.

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> So now we are fine with Reaper being excluded from Raids and excluded from WvW solo roaming...and excluded from PvP...

>

> What are we going to accept next?

 

What exactly are they good in?

 

PvE: Build. Class. Gear. Nothing matters. The content is SO painfully dull and easy you could get to level 80 without picking a single trait.

PvE World Boss: Outside of the CHEAP and LAZY mechanics that are designed to fake difficulty with cheap 1shot kills. Most of them are boring

Factals: Are they taken? The last time i played them it was "burst damage ONLY!" still the case!?

Dungeons: Do people even play these anymore!?

 

WvW Blobs: AoE. AoE. AoE. Scourge shine with boon corrupts and conditions. Nothing special. Take the boon corrupts out and they wouldnt be needed at all. Reaper!? Yeah if you want to make quick videos showing the high damage against people already half dead after the zerg has already pushed but you had to stay behind because youd melt.

 

WvW Groups: Both can be good. If played well and with right group. Will be targeted quick. Easy kill for anyone ranged who tend to target Scourge from the get go. Reaper has a little bit more to survive with leaps and projectile hate (something is better than nothing) but AoE spamming of Marks and/or wells will be the go to

 

WvW Roaming: You will die to pretty much anyone that isnt AFK if they are ranged. Even if you jump them, its still advantage them. Neither Reaper or Scourge has the defense to be able to take 5k+ auto attack hits from 12,00-1,500 range as well as 15-20k+ hits from other skills (Deaths Judgement, Rapid Fire, Killshot) and will easily be kited and locked down until they are a corpse. Vs melee it will be different. You can be a threat but Reaper has a HUGE tell for when most of their damage will come so easy to kite. Scourge tend to be all condi, quite reasonable to kill. I actually fear Scourge less than all of the other condi builds in the game.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > Solo? Sure ... so you better get thinking about how you play Reaper in WvW and interact with your side better to mitigate that risk if you insist on using Reaper. Obviously you can't do the same thing you were before the patch ...

>

> So, Reaper, Necro, Scourge. Its not a class/spec that can be played solo. Gotcha. Says something about balance. I personally play my Hybrid Cele Scourge solo. I die to pretty much anyone that is ranged. Nothing to do with skill what so ever and everything to do with bad game design so those deaths dont bother me at all. When someone is in melee i do well. I can do really well against Boon heavy builds. Got good direct damage, solid condition damage as well.

>

> Though to be fair your "obviously you cant do the same thing you were before the patch" is VERY silly in my opinion. Even before the patch Ranged classes were ALWAYS the bane of Reaper, Necro and Scourge. They ALWAYS have been and until Anet GIVE the Necro class (at Necro level and not elite spec!) actual DEFENSE against ranged then it will stay as being that.

>

>

 

That says nothing about balance because balance is more than an assessment of solo roaming in WvW. There isn't anything 'silly' about acknowledging the fact that your game style might need to change because of a change to the toolkit. In fact, I would say the opposite ... only silly people would think that the status quo is maintained if tools change.

 

Again, you do well in short range ... that's a pretty irrelevant statement in a game where you have to consider all ranges for success. I would say it's completely meaningless to assess you WvW performance with a cherry picked situation like that.

 

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> So now we are fine with Reaper being excluded from Raids and excluded from WvW solo roaming...and excluded from PvP...

>

> What are we going to accept next?

 

I dunno about you ... I never had a problem (and even less so now) with reaper being excluded from raids, PVP, etc ... maybe if you didn't view the game as a solo MMO with other people rolling around and considered a more team-based approach and respected people's team building approach for PVE, you wouldn't have such a negative outlook while playing your Necro.

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> That says nothing about balance. Those things aren't balanced because you can't solo roam with them in WvW? So that implies a class is well balanced if they are good at solo roaming? That is a very irrelevant measure of a classes balance in WvW, moreless in the game. There is nothing silly about having your tools changed drastically and realizing they don't work the same way as they did before the change. The fact that your game style might need to change because your class tools do is actually not an unreasonable expectation ... if you are a reasonable person.

 

It says everything about the balance. The game was made out to be play the class you want, how you want. Except. That is not the case. If pretty much EVERY class is viable and good for roaming except ONE. That is BAD balance. What happened to being able to play the way i want? If i want to roam (which i do) i shouldnt play the class i want because bad game design means that playing this class means you melt to range with NOTHING you can do to kill the person. Sure you can try to run, try being important. Because the only people that you will be able to out run are those that are AFK. A Necro, Reaper, Scourge isnt going to be able to out run anyone. The ONLY chance you have is if you have big enough distance to get to a tower or keep. Maybe a full camp as well. But you wont be killing them. You'll be running.

 

Again, Necro has ALWAYS had this problem, its gotten worse with the Life force change granted but Reaper was ALWAYS easy to kite. ALWAYS easy to lock down. ALWAYS easy to kill from range. This isnt anything new. This isnt a change that made them go from being good at fighting against range to bad. This is going from being BAD fighting against range to MUCH worse at fighting against range, though granted it was pretty much at the bottom to begin with. They did manage to knock the floor out to reveal that it could actually get worse.

 

Do you think its reasonable to have ONE class that has VERY little sustain, no mobility, the WORST defense in the game to be so easy to kite, to lock down, to burst down from range with at times taking no damage? I personally dont. If they wanted a game with no trinity, fine. I mean this game shows its not a good idea but they pushed forcefully with it. However. Every class should be able to hold every roll.

 

When you have a class that is THIS weak to range. It says something about balance and dont go on about "oh but the game changes, you need to adapt" because that is rubbish! for ONE simple reason: This class has ALWAYS been rubbish against range. The ONLY thing that has changed - its gotten worse. Nothing more. Nothing less. Look at the defense options EVERY other class gets to counter Range. I mean i could list them all but thats a waste of time and would be depressing to see everything Necro doesnt have but i shall list a few Blocks, Reflects, Invuls, Stealth, Immunities , Mobility, Teleports (granted necro and Scourge has this, but both SUCKS compared to what others get!) What does Necro get? They get a rather meh Corrosive Poison Cloud (blocks projectiles) does nothing to help the Necro who has to stay inside of it or on the other side to the target(s) they get Summon Wurm need i say anything about this? They get the Scourge teleport that has a ONE second cast time for such a tiny teleport distance.

 

Now i am not saying Necro should WIN against ranged users. BUT i would like to be able to GET to them without haviong lost 50-70%+ of my health and having to have used my heal before i even get into Melee range. I would like to be able to get to them without being locked in place with immob spamming. I would like to be able to get to them without them stealth, knockback using or teleporting to continue range spamming from 900+ range away. Just getting to the ranged user is hard enough that the fight is normally over before you have even got to them if they are even a semi decent player.

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > That says nothing about balance. Those things aren't balanced because you can't solo roam with them in WvW? So that implies a class is well balanced if they are good at solo roaming? That is a very irrelevant measure of a classes balance in WvW, moreless in the game. There is nothing silly about having your tools changed drastically and realizing they don't work the same way as they did before the change. The fact that your game style might need to change because your class tools do is actually not an unreasonable expectation ... if you are a reasonable person.

>

> It says everything about the balance. The game was made out to be play the class you want, how you want. Except.

 

.... except you are taking that out of context. Playing how you want was not a statement Anet made with regards to setting the expectation for being good at any aspect of the game with any build you want to play. It was SPECIFIC to playing without being locked into a traditional holy trinity role, nothing more. Players need to stop abusing this statement so broadly to petition for changes every time their own self-imposed expectations are not met.

 

The truth is that you CAN play how you want, but you shouldn't have the expectation that means you will be successful. That's a completely unreasonable premise to begin with. That means noobs can equip Zerkers, fail in raids and claim Anet has failed to deliver a game that allows them to play how they want. See, the problem here is that you don't want to admit that you are purposefully ignoring the REASONABLE expectation that it's expected that players adapt to game changes. You are also purposefully ignoring that player skill (not just in playing, but adapting to changes) has a massive part in being successful as well. You can't have any reasonable conversation without that, but to you, that's just fluff you think we don't need to consider. When in fact, it's the MAIN mechanism that determines who is successful in these situations and who isn't.

 

The game changes all time and we always have to adjust, so why this is any different ... I would think that 5 years in, this nonsense about "OMG the game changed, WTH ANET!!!" would be regulated to the un-initiated players.

[ilmau.9781]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > That says nothing about balance. Those things aren't balanced because you can't solo roam with them in WvW? So that implies a class is well balanced if they are good at solo roaming? That is a very irrelevant measure of a classes balance in WvW, moreless in the game. There is nothing silly about having your tools changed drastically and realizing they don't work the same way as they did before the change. The fact that your game style might need to change because your class tools do is actually not an unreasonable expectation ... if you are a reasonable person.

> >

> > It says everything about the balance. The game was made out to be play the class you want, how you want. Except.

>

> .... except you are taking that out of context. Playing how you want was not a statement Anet made with regards to setting the expectation for being good at any aspect of the game with any build you want to play. It was SPECIFIC to playing without being locked into a traditional holy trinity role, nothing more. Players need to stop abusing this statement so broadly to petition for changes every time their own self-imposed expectations are not met.

>

> The truth is that you CAN play how you want, but you shouldn't have the expectation that means you will be successful. That's a completely unreasonable premise to begin with. That means noobs can equip Zerkers, fail in raids and claim Anet has failed to deliver a game that allows them to play how they want. See, the problem here is that you don't want to admit that you are purposefully ignoring the REASONABLE expectation that it's expected that players adapt to game changes. You are also purposefully ignoring that player skill (not just in playing, but adapting to changes) has a massive part in being successful as well. You can't have any reasonable conversation without that, but to you, that's just fluff you think we don't need to consider. When in fact, it's the MAIN mechanism that determines who is successful in these situations and who isn't.

>

> The game changes all time and we always have to adjust, so why this is any different ... I would think that 5 years in, this nonsense about "OMG the game changed, WTH ANET!!!" would be regulated to the un-initiated players.

 

Positive changes are welcome but when the game change in worst we have the rights to complain, it is not hard to understand, beafore we were having fun and now we don't, and since we are paying customers and we pay to have fun we want competent ppl to work out fun stuff for us and not the opposite.

 

So yes, we complain. Reaper WAS FUN and has been turned to a useless pile of junk now,and that is why we complain.

 

.

[Obtena.7952]

> @ilmau.9781 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > That says nothing about balance. Those things aren't balanced because you can't solo roam with them in WvW? So that implies a class is well balanced if they are good at solo roaming? That is a very irrelevant measure of a classes balance in WvW, moreless in the game. There is nothing silly about having your tools changed drastically and realizing they don't work the same way as they did before the change. The fact that your game style might need to change because your class tools do is actually not an unreasonable expectation ... if you are a reasonable person.

> > >

> > > It says everything about the balance. The game was made out to be play the class you want, how you want. Except.

> >

> > .... except you are taking that out of context. Playing how you want was not a statement Anet made with regards to setting the expectation for being good at any aspect of the game with any build you want to play. It was SPECIFIC to playing without being locked into a traditional holy trinity role, nothing more. Players need to stop abusing this statement so broadly to petition for changes every time their own self-imposed expectations are not met.

> >

> > The truth is that you CAN play how you want, but you shouldn't have the expectation that means you will be successful. That's a completely unreasonable premise to begin with. That means noobs can equip Zerkers, fail in raids and claim Anet has failed to deliver a game that allows them to play how they want. See, the problem here is that you don't want to admit that you are purposefully ignoring the REASONABLE expectation that it's expected that players adapt to game changes. You are also purposefully ignoring that player skill (not just in playing, but adapting to changes) has a massive part in being successful as well. You can't have any reasonable conversation without that, but to you, that's just fluff you think we don't need to consider. When in fact, it's the MAIN mechanism that determines who is successful in these situations and who isn't.

> >

> > The game changes all time and we always have to adjust, so why this is any different ... I would think that 5 years in, this nonsense about "OMG the game changed, WTH ANET!!!" would be regulated to the un-initiated players.

>

> Positive changes are welcome but when the game change in worst we have the rights to complain, it is not hard to understand, beafore we were having fun and now we don't, and since we are paying customers and we pay to have fun we want competent ppl to work out fun stuff for us and not the opposite.

>

> So yes, we complain. Reaper WAS FUN and has been turned to a useless pile of junk now,and that is why we complain.

>

> .

 

Again, if you are trying to fit a new change into a old idea, it's completely unreasonable to expect it to work the same way; Any seasoned MMO veteran knows they have to adapt to every single change in the game ... EVEN if it's not to the class you play ... if you want to maintain your performance in PVP elements. Even if they revert the changes or relieve them a bit, you will need to accept that at SOME level, this IS the new reaper, because history shows Anet very rarely does a complete reversion to the old state.

 

Here is another thing that erks me ... you don't have 'rights' to complain .. you have money (that you can withhold) , time (which you can use to not play the game) or the ability to provide Anet with data (by playing the game like crazy with 'the worst change') in hoping they see you are right. This isn't a political forum where you protest and overthrow the government, so the harassment and rants ... well, I shouldn't have to explain to you where that leads you. Anet knows people aren't happy but that goes with the territory; even good changes people don't like. They don't ignore you but if they listened to EVERY players complaints and acted on them, there would be NO changes.

 

If you want to truly have an impact, start being smart with your experience and analysis and perhaps more mature with your replies.

[ilmau.9781]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @ilmau.9781 said:

> > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > > > That says nothing about balance. Those things aren't balanced because you can't solo roam with them in WvW? So that implies a class is well balanced if they are good at solo roaming? That is a very irrelevant measure of a classes balance in WvW, moreless in the game. There is nothing silly about having your tools changed drastically and realizing they don't work the same way as they did before the change. The fact that your game style might need to change because your class tools do is actually not an unreasonable expectation ... if you are a reasonable person.

> > > >

> > > > It says everything about the balance. The game was made out to be play the class you want, how you want. Except.

> > >

> > > .... except you are taking that out of context. Playing how you want was not a statement Anet made with regards to setting the expectation for being good at any aspect of the game with any build you want to play. It was SPECIFIC to playing without being locked into a traditional holy trinity role, nothing more. Players need to stop abusing this statement so broadly to petition for changes every time their own self-imposed expectations are not met.

> > >

> > > The truth is that you CAN play how you want, but you shouldn't have the expectation that means you will be successful. That's a completely unreasonable premise to begin with. That means noobs can equip Zerkers, fail in raids and claim Anet has failed to deliver a game that allows them to play how they want. See, the problem here is that you don't want to admit that you are purposefully ignoring the REASONABLE expectation that it's expected that players adapt to game changes. You are also purposefully ignoring that player skill (not just in playing, but adapting to changes) has a massive part in being successful as well. You can't have any reasonable conversation without that, but to you, that's just fluff you think we don't need to consider. When in fact, it's the MAIN mechanism that determines who is successful in these situations and who isn't.

> > >

> > > The game changes all time and we always have to adjust, so why this is any different ... I would think that 5 years in, this nonsense about "OMG the game changed, WTH ANET!!!" would be regulated to the un-initiated players.

> >

> > Positive changes are welcome but when the game change in worst we have the rights to complain, it is not hard to understand, beafore we were having fun and now we don't, and since we are paying customers and we pay to have fun we want competent ppl to work out fun stuff for us and not the opposite.

> >

> > So yes, we complain. Reaper WAS FUN and has been turned to a useless pile of junk now,and that is why we complain.

> >

> > .

>

> Again, if you are trying to fit a new change into a old idea, it's completely unreasonable to expect it to work the same way; Any seasoned MMO veteran knows they have to adapt to every single change in the game ... EVEN if it's not to the class you play ... if you want to maintain your performance in PVP elements. Even if they revert the changes or relieve them a bit, you will need to accept that at SOME level, this IS the new reaper, because history shows Anet very rarely does a complete reversion to the old state.

>

> Here is another thing that erks me ... you don't have 'rights' to complain .. you have money (that you can withhold) , time (which you can use to not play the game) or the ability to provide Anet with data (by playing the game like crazy with 'the worst change') in hoping they see you are right. This isn't a political forum where you protest and overthrow the government, so the harassment and rants ... well, I shouldn't have to explain to you where that leads you. Anet knows people aren't happy but that goes with the territory; even good changes people don't like. They don't ignore you but if they listened to EVERY players complaints and acted on them, there would be NO changes.

>

> If you want to truly have an impact, start being smart with your experience and analysis and perhaps more mature with your replies.

 

ok, let me sum up it then, they changed the reaper to be decent class for pve raids, with no luck, and in order to do that they turned it into a useless pile of junk for wvw and pvp, two game modes where reapers was actually working, so now we have a reaper who do not work in any game mode.

 

I would like to read some apologies for such a failure but i am not expecting that much, still in such cases a rollback is a must for a serious company.

[Obtena.7952]

You see, Anet's goal was simple for Reaper, and what they did achieved the goal they had. Let me repost their goal for the Nov 7th patch:

 

_We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense._

 

They did that ... that's a win for them and here you sit thinking you're going to get an apology or a rollback? you seem to misunderstand Anet's motives for change. It's not about being 'better' or 'working' ... it never was or never will be. This is why everyone's complaints about balance are delusional ... because Anet doesn't balance based on how many teams you get or how many times you die in PVP. I guess some people don't want to see that truth, but it's the way MMO's work the world over. Some do better than others, but there is always that variability. Seems to me that GW2 balance philosophy has less of a technical and more of a feel component. Anyone that can't handle that should really not be playing this game; we have 5 years to demonstrate this.

 

I don't think being obtuse is going to be a winning strategy for you unless you are preparing a comedy routine. Like I said .. you will speak with your time or your money. Your words might have an impact ... but you seem to have a knack for using the wrong ones, so I'm doubtful. Maybe post another movie ...

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Obtena mate you're on a roll. I've gotta quote you here:

'The truth is that you CAN play how you want, but you shouldn't have the expectation that means you will be successful'. Excellent! Needs to be stickied somewhere. I'm right with you there. Just do other things in game. Or see it as i do...an opportunity to buy well priced 4-5 star merlots online.

[ilmau.9781]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> You see, Anet's goal was simple for Reaper, and what they did achieved the goal they had. Let me repost their goal for the Nov 7th patch:

>

> _We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense._

>

 

if you want to upset me just give up, you do not stand a chance :)

also if you want me to agree with you, give up the same, you may have your points as i have mines and i am not changing idea

 

by my pov the change was to harsh, i could agree on a nerf on condi reaper even if for various reasons i listed already 100 times i think that condi is more effective than power in general , so already move a spec from condi to power can be considered a nerf, plus you add the incraese of the life force degen... that was indeed TO MUCH, as i said more than once now Reaper is totally useless, not working on any game mode.

 

So, the only goal they achieved was to remove the Reaper from the game.

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @dceptaconroy.7928 said:

> > @Thustlewhumber.7416 said:

> > Power Reaper is so OP broken right now there shouldn't be any complaints at all.

> Power Reaper is so OP broken right now there shouldn't be any complaints at all.

>

> It was that good that i was forced to dble up.

>

 

Its fcking bad. Useless for roaming and against good zergs useless as well. Just a rallybot

[Eltiana.9420]

> @ilmau.9781 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > You see, Anet's goal was simple for Reaper, and what they did achieved the goal they had. Let me repost their goal for the Nov 7th patch:

> >

> > _We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense._

> >

>

> if you want to upset me just give up, you do not stand a chance :)

> also if you want me to agree with you, give up the same, you may have your points as i have mines and i am not changing idea

>

> by my pov the change was to harsh, i could agree on a nerf on condi reaper even if for various reasons i listed already 100 times i think that condi is more effective than power in general , so already move a spec from condi to power can be considered a nerf, plus you add the incraese of the life force degen... that was indeed TO MUCH, as i said more than once now Reaper is totally useless, not working on any game mode.

>

> So, the only goal they achieved was to remove the Reaper from the game.

>

>

 

I've said this before, but open world PVE is a game mode, and Reaper is still very good there. Better than a lot of class/specs I'd say. And I have to say I'm having a lot more in open world PVE now than pre-patch.

[trueanimus.4085]

the main problem with anet right now is they cant remember what the launch strategy was... This game was supposed to forgo the original trinity (tank dps or healer) and allow all players to chose their own path. With reaper for example.. they are forcing people to go full power since there is no real option for heal and tank reaper chill bleed got nerfed by damage and sustainability in the last patch by losing 67% shroud regen. I want to play reaper tank.. its what i built my toon around and spent tons of gold to get gear, tweak the spec and loved to play.. BUT NO... now im being forced to play scourge dps midline just to keep playing the same toon. I could switch classes.. but i have come to love my necro and wish that i could go back to reaper tank.. but in its current state it is just unplayable. They also seem to be doing what every other game has done just before they lose tons of people, which is start nerfing pvp and wvw for pve skills and builds. Balancing across game modes never works and when you hit a class so hard like you did reaper.. people are going to start walking away from the game. If they would revert the shroud regen nerf.. i would be able to at least handle the bleed stacking nerf... but right now, reaper in any form is just unplayable. I really dont like scourge, but i will play it... until they nerf it unplayable also then i may be looking for another game.

[Obtena.7952]

> @trueanimus.4085 said:

> the main problem with anet right now is they cant remember what the launch strategy was... This game was supposed to forgo the original trinity (tank dps or healer) and allow all players to chose their own path. With reaper for example.. they are forcing people to go full power since there is no real option for heal and tank reaper chill bleed got nerfed by damage and sustainability in the last patch by losing 67% shroud regen. I want to play reaper tank.. its what i built my toon around and spent tons of gold to get gear, tweak the spec and loved to play.. BUT NO... now im being forced to play scourge dps midline just to keep playing the same toon. I could switch classes.. but i have come to love my necro and wish that i could go back to reaper tank.. but in its current state it is just unplayable. They also seem to be doing what every other game has done just before they lose tons of people, which is start nerfing pvp and wvw for pve skills and builds. Balancing across game modes never works and when you hit a class so hard like you did reaper.. people are going to start walking away from the game. If they would revert the shroud regen nerf.. i would be able to at least handle the bleed stacking nerf... but right now, reaper in any form is just unplayable. I really dont like scourge, but i will play it... until they nerf it unplayable also then i may be looking for another game.

 

Sorry, you have missed the intention here. The path of how you deal damage has nothing to do with forgoing holy trinity. Making people choose an optimal path for optimal play does not violate Anet's original intention with 'playing how you want'. You can still play terribly if you wish :)

 

> @ilmau.9781 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > You see, Anet's goal was simple for Reaper, and what they did achieved the goal they had. Let me repost their goal for the Nov 7th patch:

> >

> > _We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense._

> >

>

> if you want to upset me just give up, you do not stand a chance :)

> also if you want me to agree with you, give up the same, you may have your points as i have mines and i am not changing idea

>

> by my pov the change was to harsh, i could agree on a nerf on condi reaper even if for various reasons i listed already 100 times i think that condi is more effective than power in general , so already move a spec from condi to power can be considered a nerf, plus you add the incraese of the life force degen... that was indeed TO MUCH, as i said more than once now Reaper is totally useless, not working on any game mode.

>

> So, the only goal they achieved was to remove the Reaper from the game.

>

 

The intention isn't to 'upset' you, though to be frank, your feeling don't concern me to begin with. The intention is to inject some realism to your threads. You are attempting to use extreme sensationalism to magnify your position. I'm simply just tempering that with what is true. YOU might think it's harsh change ... I'm not going ot argue that, it's how you feel. I will harshly put down any thought that Anet 'removed Reaper from the game'. No, they didn't. What they did do was perhaps elevate Reaper into a build that requires some real skill to be successful with ... as some people have attested they are happy with the changes and feel themselves do better with them. You're absolute statements about the destruction of Reaper is no more true than the people that feel the changes are good. You don't recognize that simply stating your opinion based on your experience does not make a global truth for every player. It simply depends on who you talk to. Until you tone down your absolute position, there isn't any reason people should listen to you.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @trueanimus.4085 said:

> > the main problem with anet right now is they cant remember what the launch strategy was... This game was supposed to forgo the original trinity (tank dps or healer) and allow all players to chose their own path. With reaper for example.. they are forcing people to go full power since there is no real option for heal and tank reaper chill bleed got nerfed by damage and sustainability in the last patch by losing 67% shroud regen. I want to play reaper tank.. its what i built my toon around and spent tons of gold to get gear, tweak the spec and loved to play.. BUT NO... now im being forced to play scourge dps midline just to keep playing the same toon. I could switch classes.. but i have come to love my necro and wish that i could go back to reaper tank.. but in its current state it is just unplayable. They also seem to be doing what every other game has done just before they lose tons of people, which is start nerfing pvp and wvw for pve skills and builds. Balancing across game modes never works and when you hit a class so hard like you did reaper.. people are going to start walking away from the game. If they would revert the shroud regen nerf.. i would be able to at least handle the bleed stacking nerf... but right now, reaper in any form is just unplayable. I really dont like scourge, but i will play it... until they nerf it unplayable also then i may be looking for another game.

>

> Sorry, you have missed the intention here. The path of how you deal damage has nothing to do with forgoing holy trinity. Making people choose an optimal path for optimal play does not violate Anet's original intention with 'playing how you want'. You can still play terribly if you wish :)

>

 

Sorry, but if that is true, it is just dumb.

 

[ilmau.9781]

 

>

> I've said this before, but open world PVE is a game mode, and Reaper is still very good there. Better than a lot of class/specs I'd say. And I have to say I'm having a lot more in open world PVE now than pre-patch.

 

based on my experience (over 6.000 hours) everything works well in open world pve, i often do not even change my gear from wvw to do meta events or dungeons or SW.

 

What require a specific build is Raid, high lvl fractal, WvW and PvP... and Reaper is not working in any of those , as said many times already It were working in PvP and WvW but they tryied to ajust it for the raids and destroyed all the other builds in the process, then it ended up not working even for raids... so game over and BB Reaper.

[Obtena.7952]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > @trueanimus.4085 said:

> > > the main problem with anet right now is they cant remember what the launch strategy was... This game was supposed to forgo the original trinity (tank dps or healer) and allow all players to chose their own path. With reaper for example.. they are forcing people to go full power since there is no real option for heal and tank reaper chill bleed got nerfed by damage and sustainability in the last patch by losing 67% shroud regen. I want to play reaper tank.. its what i built my toon around and spent tons of gold to get gear, tweak the spec and loved to play.. BUT NO... now im being forced to play scourge dps midline just to keep playing the same toon. I could switch classes.. but i have come to love my necro and wish that i could go back to reaper tank.. but in its current state it is just unplayable. They also seem to be doing what every other game has done just before they lose tons of people, which is start nerfing pvp and wvw for pve skills and builds. Balancing across game modes never works and when you hit a class so hard like you did reaper.. people are going to start walking away from the game. If they would revert the shroud regen nerf.. i would be able to at least handle the bleed stacking nerf... but right now, reaper in any form is just unplayable. I really dont like scourge, but i will play it... until they nerf it unplayable also then i may be looking for another game.

> >

> > Sorry, you have missed the intention here. The path of how you deal damage has nothing to do with forgoing holy trinity. Making people choose an optimal path for optimal play does not violate Anet's original intention with 'playing how you want'. You can still play terribly if you wish :)

> >

>

> Sorry, but if that is true, it is just kitten.

>

 

You think that Anet made the play how you want statement so it applies globally to every single situation you want to apply it to? No, that's Just kitten.

[Crinn.7864]

> @Eltiana.9420 said:

> I've said this before, but open world PVE is a game mode, and Reaper is still very good there. Better than a lot of class/specs I'd say. And I have to say I'm having a lot more in open world PVE now than pre-patch.

 

Nope, Reaper takes longer to clear trash packs than most other classes, and has horrendous mobility. Reaper is still bad in open world compared to other classes.

 

Seriously why bother with reaper when you can just take a ele and 1-shot the entire trash pack with meteor shower or air overload.

 

[mulzi.8273]

All this patch does is make me sad. Not so much for the changes, but for the fact that this absolutely confirms that Anet does not play necro in any game format, and make changes based solely on either forum complainants or spreadsheet number data, which tends to be skewed to the test golems.

 

Pretty much shelved my necro, switched to another class for now, though I am playing less. Just waiting for the nerf hammer to hit ranger now so i can then retire cold turkey and never look back.