The Gods Departing

[Narcemus.1348]

So, I still can't fully get my mind around the need or the desire for the Gods to leave the Mists. I could understand them leaving Tyria because of the Elder Dragons, but why the Mists. There is only so far 1 elder dragon (Jormag) that shows an interest in the Mists (unless the Dream is in the Mists, then you could include Mordremoth), which is no reason for them to flee, especially leaving the souls of their servants to be overwhelmed by random mists creatures. This especially bothers me because it feels like it goes against their character. I'm curious if you guys have any theories. I feel like a big reason that they did this was to open up the realms of the Gods as future content, though I hope that there is a lore reason as well.

 

One thought I had about this, combined with the shift in Balthazar's character leads me to wonder if maybe there isn't some danger in mixing God magic with Elder Dragon magic. Perhaps this started back with the splitting of the Bloodstone. Maybe Balthazar was the one that siphoned Zhaitan's magic to strengthen the stone, and this lead to his bipolar attitude, eventually the elder dragon magic fully corrupted his personality and the Gods had no choice but to drain him of his God magic and then flee so that none of the rest of them become changed in this way. Of course there is no proof of this, I just hope that there is some future plot in mind to make sense of all that has occurred.

[draxynnic.3719]

One possibility is that they're leaving the Mists to engage in a 'hands-on' approach towards another world that they're currently working on, similar to how they dwelled on Tyria while Tyria was their current project.

[Narcemus.1348]

I agree that is a possibility, but wouldn't they think to leave some sort of protection for their followers? Those poor souls that we see in

 

>! the Dark Sanctum?

 

This detail is what bothers me. We are lead in GW1 to see the gods as basically shepherds of the human race caring for the souls of their followers but now they just toss them aside like rubbish at a whim.

[extremexhero.9178]

I do have a theory :)

 

When the God's first came to Tyria they did not know about elder dragons however knew about magic and created the humans.(maybe you see already)

Well what if in the God's world was actually like Tyria, at one point they got rid of all their dragon's and became the "elder dragons" though of their world. Combine this theory with the different types of magic from different worlds theory and you will see that they probably have to return to their world in order to regain their magic as while they were in Tyria they should have been dormant. So if humans are the vessel for gathering magic for the Gods then taking them back would be dangerous because of the type of magic.

[Shirou.4862]

I don't think Gods can be corrupted. Beings with domains themselves can make them just as able to corrupt, we see this with Abaddon (Margonites) but not with Balthazar because he only has a fraction of his former divine power (stripped of his title).

If he was stripped of his title however he may have gone astray from his honorable ways due to the bloodstone madness?

> @extremexhero.9178 said:

> I do have a theory :)

>

> When the God's first came to Tyria they did not know about elder dragons however knew about magic and created the humans.(maybe you see already)

 

Humans (Cantha-ns?) were already around when Gods appeared (Dwayna at Source of Orr). Only humans themselves say that they have been created by Gods but all other evidence says that they were either brought by or showed up coincidentally when Gods appeared.

I believe Gods searched for magic-filled locations to settle down for whatever reason, then when they found human's original continent (primitive and devoid of magic) during their search they sympathized with humans and brought them with along to Orr.

 

 

[Valmir.4590]

It's possible that the Gods actually deem Tyria doomed sooner or later and are therefore searching/creating a new haven for the inhabitants of the world (or at least the humans) in another corner of the Mists. I don't think that they are fleeing from the Elder Dragons, it's more probably that, in their eyes, the danger is too great, because the mortal species won't be able to find/create replacment for the Elders who/which won't become evil/corrupted as the centuries will pass and therefore, the mortals only have three alternatives :

-postpone their eventual destruction by facing off the current ELder Dragons without killing them (extremely unlikely to succeed or even be possible for a short time)

-remplace the Elders with inadequate "wardens" of magic in the long term ("Aurene will grow cold and detached from mortals the stronger she'll become", etc.)

-kill the Elder Dragons and destroy Tyria

 

All in all, shoudl Arena Net ever wish to create another Mmo based on GW's lore put change things drastically (some races, the world, etc.), the Gods searching for a new haven could become of use. But I don't expect things to become this drastic when so many of the Tyrian world is undiscovered.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Shirou.4862 said:

> Humans (Cantha-ns?) were already around when Gods appeared (Dwayna at Source of Orr). Only humans themselves say that they have been created by Gods but all other evidence says that they were either brought by or showed up coincidentally when Gods appeared.

> I believe Gods searched for magic-filled locations to settle down for whatever reason, then when they found human's original continent (primitive and devoid of magic) during their search they sympathized with humans and brought them with along to Orr.

 

Humans in Cantha were not around when the gods appeared. [Humans were brought to Cantha by the gods.](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Path_of_Fire%E2%80%94Road_to_the_Desert#Timeline)

 

It's a common point of confusion since humans arrived to Orr and Istan in 205 BE but were in Cantha since 786 BE. People presume that the portal mentioned in the Orrian History Scrolls is when humans arrived on Orr in 205 BE but all other sources tell us they sailed there. Basically meaning the timeline is:

 

??? BE: Humans brought to world of Tyria at Orr / The Artesian Waters. Subsequently, before they could settle long, they were moved elsewhere.

786 BE: Humans sailed to Cantha, led by the gods, and settled Cantha's northern coast. Shortly after, Kurzicks and Luxons also sailed to Cantha, landing further south near the Echovald Forest and Jade Sea.

205 BE: Humans sailed to supercontinent Tyria at Orr and Istan, establishing two separate kingdoms; Istans quickly settle Kourna.

Following centuries: Kryta, Ascalon, Vabbi, and the Crystal Desert all get settled - Crystal Desert settlements fall when the Primeval Dynasty falls.

 

It's _probable_ that humans and gods arrived on the world around 1769 BE, when the timeline says the Forgotten did, as we know the Forgotten came from the Mists as well and have long been servitude to the Six Gods.

[moonstarmac.4603]

Kormir stated why. She pointed out, every time the gods intervened in such matters, the release of energy as a result was catastrophic. IE: The fall of Abaddon created the Desolation, his death released so much magic that it sped up the awakening of the Dragons, and the destruction of two elder dragons and a bloodstone has all of Tyria walking a fine line which one event could destroy the planet.

 

So, with this, Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa, Grenth, and Kormir chose to leave so that their presence would not lead to unintended destruction. Balthazar, however, saw this as a weakness and was willing to destroy everything and everyone to make a point. Thus, he was stripped of most of his power and chained away in the Mists. Kormir points out there are still Six, meaning another was ascended to the role Balthazar once held. And the torrent of magic released by Balthazar's death, being infused with what remained of his own power, magic from the Bloodstone, and magic from Primordous...if not for Aurene and Kralk absorbing the majority of it, it could have very well collapsed into Tyria's ley system and destroyed the planet.

 

So yeah, for about the same reason they left Arah...they realized the power they held was so great it was causing unintended events to unfold. My guess is they have created a location from which their power will be unable to affect Tyria, but in time they will re-open communication with their followers once the torrent of untamed magic subsides.

[Narcemus.1348]

I understand the logic of not wanting to fight the dragons or stay in Tyria, but in the Mists, they haven't had any effect on Tyria or the dragons since Abaddon's death. And even if they are leaving the Mists because they feel that it is still too close to Tyria, why not leave some sort of protection for the souls of their followers or take them with (if possible) but instead we get Kormir leaving her sanctum knowing that within days her followers would be food for mists creatures like Aatxe's and such without a care for them. And we know that she knew this was going to happen because she left the sunspear knowledge ready for us specially locked up, and yet she still leaves her followers helpless to defend themselves to perish for no good reason. So it feels like ANet is just trying to get us to have a bitter taste in our mouth about all the gods (knowing that this is happening in at least Grenth's realm as well).

[ThatOddOne.4387]

It does seem that ArenaNet are quite adamantly trying to make the gods uncaring/incompetent, and yes it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @Narcemus.1348 said:

> Kormir leaving her sanctum knowing that within days her followers would be food for mists creatures like Aatxe's and such without a care for them. [...] yet she still leaves her followers helpless to defend themselves to perish for no good reason.

 

Are they truly helpless? Did she give them no means to defend themselves?

 

I've not seen The Dark Library yet, but Domain of the Lost is also suffering from similar effects with Grenth's departure, but we see next to no roaming mists creatures - they're all dead. Grenth's lieutenants/followers/whatever like the Judge may be struggling to keep things in order (per dev comment) but they're still managing - though managing worse thanks to Joko and Balthazar which Grenth doubtlessly didn't prepare for.

 

In the case of the Sanctum, maybe Kormir's defenses are more situated elsewhere in the Realm of Torment than the apparent heart of her domain and / or the situation is worse than Kormir thought?

[Tamias.7059]

> @ThatOddOne.4387 said:

> It does seem that ArenaNet are quite adamantly trying to make the gods uncaring/incompetent, and yes it does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

 

Eh, [blue and Orange Morality](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) is a common trope in fiction. We've always thought of the gods as good and benevolent because we've always come at them from a human perspective, but if you _really_ think about it we've known since at least _Nightfall_ that they're kind of useless and uncaring.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @Tamias.7059 said:

> Eh, [blue and Orange Morality](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) is a common trope in fiction. We've always thought of the gods as good and benevolent because we've always come at them from a human perspective, but if you _really_ think about it we've known since at least _Nightfall_ that they're kind of useless and uncaring.

 

This. In Gate of Madness, we basically beg the avatars of the gods to help us. Their response was pretty much the same one Kormir gives us in PoF: "The gifts of the gods are inside you already, so you're on your own. Ok, fine, we'll give you a blessing to. Off you go now!" So, at least as far as their actions (or lack thereof) in GW1 and GW2 go, the gods have always just kind of come across as not willing to directly intervene or really even care all that much.

[ThatOddOne.4387]

An observation I disagree with.

[Aaron Ansari.1604]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @Narcemus.1348 said:

> > Kormir leaving her sanctum knowing that within days her followers would be food for mists creatures like Aatxe's and such without a care for them. [...] yet she still leaves her followers helpless to defend themselves to perish for no good reason.

>

> Are they truly helpless? Did she give them no means to defend themselves?

>

> I've not seen The Dark Library yet, but Domain of the Lost is also suffering from similar effects with Grenth's departure, but we see next to no roaming mists creatures - they're all dead. Grenth's lieutenants/followers/whatever like the Judge may be struggling to keep things in order (per dev comment) but they're still managing - though managing worse thanks to Joko and Balthazar which Grenth doubtlessly didn't prepare for.

>

 

From what we see, it was entirely one-sided. Most of the librarians are lying 'dead' on the floor, and only a couple of them are in a fit state to talk to us. None of them are putting up a fight, and mechanically, anyway, they're outnumbered by an order of magnitude.

 

[Narcemus.1348]

> @"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @Narcemus.1348 said:

> > > Kormir leaving her sanctum knowing that within days her followers would be food for mists creatures like Aatxe's and such without a care for them. [...] yet she still leaves her followers helpless to defend themselves to perish for no good reason.

> >

> > Are they truly helpless? Did she give them no means to defend themselves?

> >

> > I've not seen The Dark Library yet, but Domain of the Lost is also suffering from similar effects with Grenth's departure, but we see next to no roaming mists creatures - they're all dead. Grenth's lieutenants/followers/whatever like the Judge may be struggling to keep things in order (per dev comment) but they're still managing - though managing worse thanks to Joko and Balthazar which Grenth doubtlessly didn't prepare for.

> >

>

> From what we see, it was entirely one-sided. Most of the librarians are lying 'dead' on the floor, and only a couple of them are in a fit state to talk to us. None of them are putting up a fight, and mechanically, anyway, they're outnumbered by an order of magnitude.

>

 

Definitely this. And if I remember right, I have a feeling that there were some effects to make it seem like the sanctum itself was starting to fall apart. But yeah, when we go there, the situation seems absolutely dire for the librarians and the sunspear ghosts are nowhere to be seen. And we do nothing to help them, just grabbed what we needed and ran.