Lootboxes and recovering from addiction

Canakun.8031 · November 8, 2017

I can't see any threads so if there is another one covering this topic please feel free to move it there.

I'd like to share a bit of a story with you all. I'm not looking for sympathy or for pity but I just need this out here.

I'm a 'recovering' gambling addict. Recovering is in inverted commas because I think I just relapsed.

GW2 has been my home since it was in beta. I've always found solace in this game. It's helped me relax, unwind, recover and generally just cope with my anxiety and stress and inability to manage my funds efficiently.

I've always loathed the idea of lootboxes. I think a lot of the current gaming culture is incredibly anti-consumer. I was always so happy that GW2 tended to lean away from that sort of thing.

Then I logged on today and saw I could get a Jackal mount skin that looked like my actual dog. I didn't even think about what was happening. But before I could stop myself I'd bought enough gems to get 8 of those mount packs. I opened them (I actually got the mount I wanted) and after the dust had settled I realised that I had just ruined 5 years of gambling addiction recovery on an online game.

GW2 I cannot express to you how sad I am to know that I cannot use this game as a tool in my recovery and rehabilitation anymore. I don't know where I'm at or what to do.

Lootbox gambling is disgusting. Please don't repeat this mistake with future releases. Please. I beg you.

CharterforGw.3149 · November 8, 2017

This isn't really gambling, I can see why you feel like it is, since it gives the same feelings of wanting to "try again".

why this isn't gambling you may wonder. You always get something, and it is never something you had before.

gambling has a change of getting you nothing, and you only lose.

that doesn't however make this way of "lootboxes" a nice thing, since there is still an aspect of rng, I don't like lootboxes myself, but I condone them aslong as they are purely cosmetic items that don't impact the games of other people. A good example is the system in the new Starwars battlefront 2 (original battlefront 2 is still much better ;) ) where lootboxes increase your powerlevel without playing the game itself.

little side note: it has existed since the start of the game in the form of Black lion chests

edit: made a mistake in the definition, won't change the original post though, would only cause confusion in the thread

Shirlias.8104 · November 8, 2017

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> little side note: it has existed since the start of the game in the form of Black lion chests

I thought the same.

But i suppose that every ocd has his own compulsions toward specific kind of content.

Ohoni.6057 · November 8, 2017

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> This isn't really gambling, I can see why you feel like it is, since it gives the same feelings of wanting to "try again".

Wrong.

Ayumi Spender.1082 · November 8, 2017

> @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> This isn't really gambling, I can see why you feel like it is, since it gives the same feelings of wanting to "try again".

> why this isn't gambling you may wonder. You always get something, and it is never something you had before.

>

> gambling has a change of getting you nothing, and you only lose.

> that doesn't however make this way of "lootboxes" a nice thing, since there is still an aspect of rng, I don't like lootboxes myself, but I condone them aslong as they are purely cosmetic items that don't impact the games of other people. A good example is the system in the new Starwars battlefront 2 (original battlefront 2 is still much better ;) ) where lootboxes increase your powerlevel without playing the game itself.

>

> little side note: it has existed since the start of the game in the form of Black lion chests

My english is as good as a Norn giving up alcohol... but I don't think you know what the word "gamble" or "gambling" means.

You use 400 gems in the gamble of getting what you want.

I don't see how you don't get this at all. It's not hard to understand.

Even those little stupid vending machine things you see in the supermarket that you put 25 cents in (I think it went up to 50 later on and I think even 75 now? I don't know I'M NOT A CHILD NO MORE...... on the outside at least...), is a gambling mechanism. You see a prize/toy and you put the quarter in hoping you get one of the things you want.

9 out of 10 you don't and you would ask your parents for another quarter to try. It's gambling.

It doesn't matter if after you get it, you won't get doubles. Because you know what? Those rare/uncommon account bound one time only things in the black lion chests? If you got it already you won't get it a 2nd time either. That's a damn gamble.

Even going, "You know what? There's a test tomorrow and I never studied and I still won't study. I hope I do well." Is gambling on the chance on passing or failing.

"The game of chance" is a gamble. Plain and simple.

Wanze.8410 · November 8, 2017

> @Canakun.8031 said:

> I can't see any threads so if there is another one covering this topic please feel free to move it there.

> I'd like to share a bit of a story with you all. I'm not looking for sympathy or for pity but I just need this out here.

> I'm a 'recovering' gambling addict. Recovering is in inverted commas because I think I just relapsed.

> GW2 has been my home since it was in beta. I've always found solace in this game. It's helped me relax, unwind, recover and generally just cope with my anxiety and stress and inability to manage my funds efficiently.

> I've always loathed the idea of lootboxes. I think a lot of the current gaming culture is incredibly anti-consumer. I was always so happy that GW2 tended to lean away from that sort of thing.

> Then I logged on today and saw I could get a Jackal mount skin that looked like my actual dog. I didn't even think about what was happening. But before I could stop myself I'd bought enough gems to get 8 of those mount packs. I opened them (I actually got the mount I wanted) and after the dust had settled I realised that I had just ruined 5 years of gambling addiction recovery on an online game.

> GW2 I cannot express to you how sad I am to know that I cannot use this game as a tool in my recovery and rehabilitation anymore. I don't know where I'm at or what to do.

> Lootbox gambling is disgusting. Please don't repeat this mistake with future releases. Please. I beg you.

thats not gambling because all you do is paying for a **service** that Anet provides, you arent buying a product or the chance of winning a product or value. Your whole account is still owned by Anet, they just grant you access to it and can revoke it any time.

You should be more concerned about the fact that you rather spend real money and time to play with a digital likeness of your dog than spending it for and with your actual dog.

Zaklex.6308 · November 8, 2017

By definition it is not a gamble:

"verb

1.

play games of chance for money; bet.

"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"

synonyms: bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies

"he started to gamble more often"

2.

take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

"the British could only gamble that something would turn up"

synonyms: take a chance, take a risk; More

noun

1.

an act of gambling; an enterprise undertaken or attempted with a risk of loss and a chance of profit or success."

You are guaranteed an item, therefore it is not a chance, it's not risky, nor is there a chance of loss or profit(see item guarantee).

CharterforGw.3149 · November 8, 2017

Okay, > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @CharterforGw.3149 said:

> > This isn't really gambling, I can see why you feel like it is, since it gives the same feelings of wanting to "try again".

> > why this isn't gambling you may wonder. You always get something, and it is never something you had before.

> >

> > gambling has a change of getting you nothing, and you only lose.

> > that doesn't however make this way of "lootboxes" a nice thing, since there is still an aspect of rng, I don't like lootboxes myself, but I condone them aslong as they are purely cosmetic items that don't impact the games of other people. A good example is the system in the new Starwars battlefront 2 (original battlefront 2 is still much better ;) ) where lootboxes increase your powerlevel without playing the game itself.

> >

> > little side note: it has existed since the start of the game in the form of Black lion chests

>

> My english is as good as a Norn giving up alcohol... but I don't think you know what the word "gamble" or "gambling" means.

> You use 400 gems in the gamble of getting what you want.

> I don't see how you don't get this at all. It's not hard to understand.

> Even those little stupid vending machine things you see in the supermarket that you put 25 cents in (I think it went up to 50 later on and I think even 75 now? I don't know I'M NOT A CHILD NO MORE...... on the outside at least...), is a gambling mechanism. You see a prize/toy and you put the quarter in hoping you get one of the things you want.

> 9 out of 10 you don't and you would ask your parents for another quarter to try. It's gambling.

> It doesn't matter if after you get it, you won't get doubles. Because you know what? Those rare/uncommon account bound one time only things in the black lion chests? If you got it already you won't get it a 2nd time either. That's a kitten gamble.

>

> Even going, "You know what? There's a test tomorrow and I never studied and I still won't study. I hope I do well." Is gambling on the chance on passing or failing.

> "The game of chance" is a gamble. Plain and simple.

It does fit the definition of gambling indeed (my mistake of getting the definition wrong).

However, in this case with the mounts you can't compare it to "casino gambling" (where you can get nothing).

If you keep spending money on the mounts you will get all of them, you will never get nothing, you will never get the same mount.

Myrdreth.6829 · November 8, 2017

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> You are guaranteed an item, therefore it is not a chance, it's not risky, nor is there a chance of loss or profit(see item guarantee).

I don't like most of the skins and think they are boring or just plain ugly. I only like a few of them. So even if I get a skin every time I still consider it a loss when I don't get skins that I like because I will never ever use those ugly and boring ones.

It's like gambling at a booth on a funfair. Consolation prizes are awful. No one likes them. We want the prizes that we like and to get them we gamble...that's the same thing happening here. It IS a gamble.

You have a tiny chance to get the skins you like or you just get a shitty ugly consolation price skin. Hooray. For me that's a loss of profit right there. I know my luck...I bet I will get the skin I like the last and get all of the ugly skins first. So risking 120€ for the skin I like...ouch!

Dashiva.6149 · November 8, 2017

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> By definition it is not a gamble:

> "verb

> 1.

> play games of chance for money; bet.

> "she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"

> synonyms: bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies

> "he started to gamble more often"

> 2.

> **take risky action in the hope of a desired result.**

> "the British could only gamble that something would turn up"

> synonyms: take a chance, take a risk; More

> noun

> 1.

> an act of gambling; an enterprise undertaken or attempted with a risk of loss **(Undesired outcome, item, skin, whatever)** and a chance of profit or success **(Desired outcome, item, skin, whatever)**."

> You are guaranteed an item, therefore it is not a chance, it's not risky, nor is there a chance of loss or profit(see item guarantee).

See highlighted text, it seems like it fits the second definition. A undesired item gained from a gamble could most certainly be interpreted as a "loss".

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372 · November 8, 2017

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> You are guaranteed an item, therefore it is not a chance, it's not risky, nor is there a chance of loss or profit(see item guarantee).

You are guaranteed an item but that item may be one you do not value at all (or not at the price you paid for the chance to get an item you wanted). So yes, it is gambling.

MarcellinoAlighieri.7194 · November 8, 2017

I am floored that there are people on here telling a recovering gambling addict the definition of gambling.

costepj.5120 · November 8, 2017

There are many people who enjoy the frisson of opening lootboxes. The challenge for a company like Anet is striking the right balance between entertaining one section of their player base without damaging another. It would be a tough call to exclude all RNG elements from the gemstore to ensure no one with a gambling problem is unduly tempted. Akin to banning alcohol sales to remove temptation from alcoholics.

Swagger.1459 · November 8, 2017