Lighter.5631 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > mirage takes skill. It fine. It game. > > > > I know this is trolling but it needs to be stated that as long as Elusive Mind exists it will be the training wheels mesmer spec. > > > > > > Well, they finally hit Unhindered Combatant which was thief training wheels... I wouldn't be surprised if EM was the next. as a noob thief, i can't notice a difference. normally i got the debuff when im backing out anyway, the debuff is hardly noticeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elxdark.9702 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > @Elxdark.9702 said: > > holo just need a nerf on the might stacking potential, they do a lot of damage mostly because they can stack and maintain 25 stacks of might easily most of the time. > > Engineer always been able to stack might and maintain it... I've been playing might stack engineer since 2014 and, as long I'm running alchemy (For Boon Duration and HGH) and things that increase might duration (Like Runes of Strenght/Hoelbrak), I have no issue getting to 25 mights. In fact, I think holo is the slowest one for me to hit 25 mights because I need to have 100 heat on PF first to it start stacking high (Scrapper have might on Hammer autos and I use Juggernaut on Core Engineer). > > What you are complaining about is somenthing that always been there and was never noticed because Engineer was always subpar (And let's be honest, it still is) compared to the other professions. Relax dude I'm fine with holo I think it's a balanced spec, just saying that the fact you can generate 20+ might under 5 seconds is not right imo and should be toned down a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusanyu.4057 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 you could just hit the holo they melt easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elxdark.9702 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Lighter.5631 said: > > @Jeknar.6184 said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > mirage takes skill. It fine. It game. > > > > > > I know this is trolling but it needs to be stated that as long as Elusive Mind exists it will be the training wheels mesmer spec. > > > > > > > > > > Well, they finally hit Unhindered Combatant which was thief training wheels... I wouldn't be surprised if EM was the next. > > as a noob thief, i can't notice a difference. normally i got the debuff when im backing out anyway, the debuff is hardly noticeable ???? BUT DASH IS DEAD I CAN'T USE DASH ANYMORE SO BAD!! - thief forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario.8964 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 What the thief forums mean to say is: I can't dodge spam anymore what will carry me? Any thief who actively dodges only what they need to instead of dodging to dodge will really not feel the debuff all that much as they never had an issue with endurance management to begin with. Only ones that say it's unplayable are the ones who shouldn't have been playing it to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard.2873 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 So....Mirage is literally the worst build in the game to fight, unless you can play something like d/d ele that doesn't need a target and spams AOEs. If you are all single-target skills, the number of target drops kills your dps, and the confusion/torment means something like an ele can't even swap to use cleanse...so you sit there while their condis tick and kill you completely. Nerfing spellbreaker just a little has revealed a whole host of new cancer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > So....Mirage is literally the worst build in the game to fight, unless you can play something like d/d ele that doesn't need a target and spams AOEs. If you are all single-target skills, the number of target drops kills your dps, and the confusion/torment means something like an ele can't even swap to use cleanse...so you sit there while their condis tick and kill you completely. > > Nerfing spellbreaker just a little has revealed a whole host of new cancer! Most people knew that as soon as SB got nerfed, Mirage would be the new ridiculously broken fotm. Most... except anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Razor.6392 said: > > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > So....Mirage is literally the worst build in the game to fight, unless you can play something like d/d ele that doesn't need a target and spams AOEs. If you are all single-target skills, the number of target drops kills your dps, and the confusion/torment means something like an ele can't even swap to use cleanse...so you sit there while their condis tick and kill you completely. > > > > Nerfing spellbreaker just a little has revealed a whole host of new cancer! > > Most people knew that as soon as SB got nerfed, Mirage would be the new ridiculously broken fotm. > > Most... except anet. > I saw mirage being broken as soon as it was introduced in beta. Something that can break target, because that was the only way most people could keep track? Yeah no, that could have been seen miles away. Fighting mirages is legit depressing since there is possibly one window of opportunity to burst them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard.2873 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > > So....Mirage is literally the worst build in the game to fight, unless you can play something like d/d ele that doesn't need a target and spams AOEs. If you are all single-target skills, the number of target drops kills your dps, and the confusion/torment means something like an ele can't even swap to use cleanse...so you sit there while their condis tick and kill you completely. > > > > > > Nerfing spellbreaker just a little has revealed a whole host of new cancer! > > > > Most people knew that as soon as SB got nerfed, Mirage would be the new ridiculously broken fotm. > > > > Most... except anet. > > > > I saw mirage being broken as soon as it was introduced in beta. > > Something that can break target, because that was the only way most people could keep track? > > Yeah no, that could have been seen miles away. Fighting mirages is legit depressing since there is possibly one window of opportunity to burst them. I mean, dropping target wouldn't be a problem on a long CD, used very sparingly, add some interesting gameplay vs. a bruiser-type build. But vs. a burst-build, it is absolutely atrocious. I prefer to fight against thieves, b/c while, yes, they do get to choose when to engage, I can quickly target them and counter-burst. Against mirage, I have to find my cursor, locate it over the mirage, and make sure I select him before trying to counter-burst, all while under just as much pressure as vs. a thief. It doesn't make for an interesting fight, it makes it me vs. the mirage + the user interface. Even when I instantly find the right mirage with my eyes, it takes too long to actually select via either tabs or cursor, which makes it miserable gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > > > So....Mirage is literally the worst build in the game to fight, unless you can play something like d/d ele that doesn't need a target and spams AOEs. If you are all single-target skills, the number of target drops kills your dps, and the confusion/torment means something like an ele can't even swap to use cleanse...so you sit there while their condis tick and kill you completely. > > > > > > > > Nerfing spellbreaker just a little has revealed a whole host of new cancer! > > > > > > Most people knew that as soon as SB got nerfed, Mirage would be the new ridiculously broken fotm. > > > > > > Most... except anet. > > > > > > > I saw mirage being broken as soon as it was introduced in beta. > > > > Something that can break target, because that was the only way most people could keep track? > > > > Yeah no, that could have been seen miles away. Fighting mirages is legit depressing since there is possibly one window of opportunity to burst them. > > I mean, dropping target wouldn't be a problem on a long CD, used very sparingly, add some interesting gameplay vs. a bruiser-type build. But vs. a burst-build, it is absolutely atrocious. > > I prefer to fight against thieves, b/c while, yes, they do get to choose when to engage, I can quickly target them and counter-burst. Against mirage, I have to find my cursor, locate it over the mirage, and make sure I select him before trying to counter-burst, all while under just as much pressure as vs. a thief. > > It doesn't make for an interesting fight, it makes it me vs. the mirage + the user interface. Even when I instantly find the right mirage with my eyes, it takes too long to actually select via either tabs or cursor, which makes it miserable gameplay. that's more to do with visual effect + UI tbh . and mirage dodge has littler visual effect doesn't help this much . since I'm mes main , i have no trouble target real mesmer even in team fight on any other class .actually i laughed so much at this feature when my friends tried this on me lol. it would certinaly buy a second for mirage to breath or make their burst less predictable . but in general players will figure out soon enough . this is just like gw2 launch period , people didn't know which is real mesmer . mirage EM trait needs to be changed for better counter play . but what i want to say here is mirage doesn't have that much raw power like people in this thread believe . look at mirage trait line . most of them are trash .only good thing is EM . and look at meta condi mirage build , it uses energy sigil / adventure rune for more dodges which every other class has accesses to .only sword ambush +EM carried mirage in a way they can run two dmg trait line for higher burst potential . but their sustain is actually lower than chrono .they are harder to catch , but once you catch them , they are done . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despond.2174 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Mirage is like the#1 duelist now, it's damage is also incredibly easy to set up in just a few presses alongside it's incredible mobility. A lot of peopel predicted with any scourge/sb nerfs if mirage was left untouched it would just sky rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Despond.2174 said: > Mirage is like #1 duelist now, it's damage is also incredibly easy to set up in just a few presses alongside it's incredibly mobility. A lot of peopel predicted with any scourge/sb nerfs if mirage was left untouched it would just sky rocket. "it's damage is also incredibly easy to set up in just a few presses." that's like every single class burst combo , except maybe power chrono , FA ele .even they can do enough burst with few presses anyway . they designed mirage as duelist (which i dislike since mes are already good at that ) they are still bad at teamfight . they are close to DD for +1 but have less stealth less teleport and are better at 1v1 than DD . less sustain than DD (yeah i know many here believe opposite ). btw , what counter mesmer like staff DD or DH still counter mirage (to a less degree but still ) few thing , adding better visual effect to mirage cloak so less people will waste their skill on a evading frame . change gm trait EM ,add an icd to stunbreak (which is not ideal solution but one of the way to change that easy mode trait). after that it would be more in line with other class but still strong duelist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 The whole mirage spec is carried by elusive mind (remove 1 condi and stun break on dodge) which should get a nerf. Other than that mirage plays just like a chrono, burst like a chrono, sustain less than a chrono but move faster than a chrono. Meta mirage has one trait that add 2 stacks of confusion on ambush and rest of the non-elite specs damage trait are also available to chrono. If you're doing fine against chrono, chances are you'll adjust to mirage in no time. When you describe passive you should really define it and break down a proper argument, else you just look like you're whining :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nubu.6148 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Holo isnt over the top , mirage is .... i play both specs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard.2873 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: > The whole mirage spec is carried by elusive mind (remove 1 condi and stun break on dodge) which should get a nerf. Other than that mirage plays just like a chrono, burst like a chrono, sustain less than a chrono but move faster than a chrono. Meta mirage has one trait that add 2 stacks of confusion on ambush and rest of the non-elite specs damage trait are also available to chrono. If you're doing fine against chrono, chances are you'll adjust to mirage in no time. > > When you describe passive you should really define it and break down a proper argument, else you just look like you're whining :/ Big difference between mirage and chrono is that mirage has a LOT of skills that FORCE you to drop target, which is insane against specs that aren't running cleave weapons. It is way to unweildy fighting the UI to try and quickly retarget and counter-pressure before you have 15 stacks of confusion on you. Also...and this isn't mirage specific...but doesn't bursting out huge stacks of condis, covered by like 3-5 extra garbage condis, defeat the purpose of condis as ramp-damage? Power-creep has ruined this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solori.6025 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 So...instead of trying to nerf individual classes? Why not just cut off the head of the snake and nerf the ability to do burst conditions or spam 5-7 conditions at a time? (or in the case of FB 10-15 stacks of a single condition in a second) Wouldnt that take care of 80% of the issues people have with conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenzy.9348 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Don't even dare putting Mirage in the same sack as Holosmith. Mirage is so much stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vapour.7348 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Yikes the title of this thread is misleading because Holo is not even on the same boat as Mirage. Holosmith game play could get rather intense due to how squishy you really are. On Mirage, you just end up giggling at how much you troll your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abelisk.4527 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: > The whole mirage spec is carried by elusive mind (remove 1 condi and stun break on dodge) which should get a nerf. Other than that mirage plays just like a chrono, burst like a chrono, sustain less than a chrono but move faster than a chrono. Meta mirage has one trait that add 2 stacks of confusion on ambush and rest of the non-elite specs damage trait are also available to chrono. If you're doing fine against chrono, chances are you'll adjust to mirage in no time. > > When you describe passive you should really define it and break down a proper argument, else you just look like you're whining :/ Actually, I don't take Elusive Mind. IH is better because more condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said: > > The whole mirage spec is carried by elusive mind (remove 1 condi and stun break on dodge) which should get a nerf. Other than that mirage plays just like a chrono, burst like a chrono, sustain less than a chrono but move faster than a chrono. Meta mirage has one trait that add 2 stacks of confusion on ambush and rest of the non-elite specs damage trait are also available to chrono. If you're doing fine against chrono, chances are you'll adjust to mirage in no time. > > > > When you describe passive you should really define it and break down a proper argument, else you just look like you're whining :/ > > Big difference between mirage and chrono is that mirage has a LOT of skills that FORCE you to drop target, which is insane against specs that aren't running cleave weapons. It is way to unweildy fighting the UI to try and quickly retarget and counter-pressure before you have 15 stacks of confusion on you. > > Also...and this isn't mirage specific...but doesn't bursting out huge stacks of condis, covered by like 3-5 extra garbage condis, defeat the purpose of condis as ramp-damage? Power-creep has ruined this game. you know , meta condi mirage does not run axe , doesn't not run any target break skill except stealth which is same for chrono . we told what's the problem :EM and mirage cloak visual effect . but u guys kept saying random stuff which meta mirage build doesn't even use . so whatever . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @BlackBeard.2873 said: > > Big difference between mirage and chrono is that mirage has a LOT of skills that FORCE you to drop target, which is insane against specs that aren't running cleave weapons. It is way to unweildy fighting the UI to try and quickly retarget and counter-pressure before you have 15 stacks of confusion on you. > > Also...and this isn't mirage specific...but doesn't bursting out huge stacks of condis, covered by like 3-5 extra garbage condis, defeat the purpose of condis as ramp-damage? Power-creep has ruined this game. Idm you don't understand mirage, but please at least look at metabattle before you say this. The only target break you see in most mirage is torch 4 stealth. Rest of the target breaks are either in axe or unused utilities (illusionary ambush and mirror images), both of which are more or less experimental uses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurnshadow.3678 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 As a condi mirage, I can't do shit against a bunker guard, which is very popular, spellbreaker, which is very popular, or sourge, which is very popular. They have too many cleanses and resistance. So, i find condi mirage fairly useless against the most popular classes currently in pvp. Power mirage is much better, but If I'm caught, I'm usually dead. Still can't hold a point, so have to play off point while the big aoe damage dealers or bunkers tick away the points. Dunno what all the fuss is really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfric.9380 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 no base damage on confusion and torment ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnito.6187 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Is this just me or... The target breaking skills everyone complains about, no one uses them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rank eleven monk.9502 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Magnito.6187 said: > Is this just me or... > The target breaking skills everyone complains about, no one uses them? Exactly. I'm 100% sure it's about the basic mesmer mechanic and not the target breaking, simply people found a new basis for complaining about clone spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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