Are Mounts Necessary?

[jia li ng.8415]

I did not post this as "Are Mounts Necessary?" but as "Observations", How the title changed?, Why the title to this tread was changed?

I'll attempt to restate that mounted players in level 1-15 areas are not a need, its a want, and gameplay in these zones has been disrupted.

Whether or not anyone can or will accept that observation is their choice, and just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

(we could all say the same thing about Sasquatch)

 

But seriously, I know in my heart nothing will be done to bring a balance to the newest members of our gaming community.

 

Oh, an who spends all their time watch Religious Infomercials ... God Made Faith ... humans corrupt it into religions

 

[LightningWolfTigerBear.672]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> But seriously, I know in my heart nothing will be done to bring a balance to the newest members of our gaming community.

And I know in mine that you're blowing this way out of proportion. Maybe you believe that nothing will be done because deep down you know it too and are unnecessarily outraged on behalf of people that don't even actually care.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> I did not post this as "Are Mounts Necessary?" but as "Observations", How the title changed?, Why the title to this tread was changed?

> I'll attempt to restate that mounted players in level 1-15 areas are not a need, its a want, and gameplay in these zones has been disrupted.

> Whether or not anyone can or will accept that observation is their choice, and just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

>

> (we could all say the same thing about Sasquatch)

>

> But seriously, I know in my heart nothing will be done to bring a balance to the newest members of our gaming community.

>

 

Yeah but what's the point of the observations? Mounts are only needed in Path of Fire maps, nowhere else. So what is the point of the observation? That's kind of a "captian obvious" observation and leads nowhere. No discussion can be had over this.

 

Are mounts only not needed in 1-15 maps or are they also not needed in lvl 80 Orr maps? Did the gameplay in lvl 1-15 really get disrupted by mounts that much or do the lvl 80 players also disrupt those maps whenever there's a daily event completer there? Are HoT maps disrupted by mounts? You no longer need speed mushrooms to get places faster, or even bounce mushrooms, did the raptor and the springer disrupt HoT masteries? Getting from one event to the other in HoT meta events is now easier because you can raptor there and get it done faster, earning the whole map easier T4 completion. Is that disrupted?

 

The bottom line is that your whole observation is so narrow that it really doesn't bring anything to any discussion, and even that observation is really stretched when you consider that people have been playing this game for ages and don't need mounts to wipe events, especially on high level characters. So is the observation that lvl 80 characters also aren't needed in 1-15 maps? Well no captain obvious, they are not needed. But sometimes they're there.

 

This whole thread's premise is basically "there's a new thing in this game and things are different now, and i don't like change".

Were people this philosophical about gliders too when HoT released?

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Suki Tomi.1903" said:

> I've only been playing Guild Wars 2 for a little over eight months, my achievements include seven level eighty characters, one with storyline and map completion. I have no intention of buying Path of Fire until I complete Living Story Two and Three. I am taking this opportunity to explore and savor the richness and diversity of Tyria. I see quite a hornets nest being stirred about mounts and from my perspective its much ado about nothing. I really do not care whether someone can ride in on a mount and take control of an event because there are events happening every few minutes and if you are patient the mounted players move on to other places and I still soldier on. To me mounts are a trophy bought not something earned and for that reason I really do not care to waste my earnings to acquire one. Such a big deal over something so worthless. I do agree that the game is not as fun as it was when I first started but who knew there was going to be an expansion. Maybe in a couple years I might buy into the idea I simply can not live without having mount but it will take a whole lot more convincing than seeing someone stealing an event. If I wait long enough I can do the same event without interruption.

 

Just a comment about mounts being a trophy bought, they're really not, at least not in this game. First all all, you get your first mount pretty much for free, but other mounts require at least some effort to get, particularly the griffon mount which has to be earned by completing content in the game.

 

More than that, the mounts in this game aren't just speed buffs, like they are in other games, they give you new ways to move. When you get to PoF there are areas you will not be able to reach without those mounts, just like there are areas in HoT you can't reach without gliding.

 

On top of that, you have to train the masteries for the mounts, which means leveling them up which takes getting mastery points and gaining experience to unlock those abilties. Mounts in this game are truly part of the progression system and shouldn't be dismissed by your knowledge of mounts in other games. In Guild Wars 2 mounts are an entirely different animal, pun intended.

 

Edit: I do agree that the OP's complaint is much to do about nothing however.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering.

No, that's a strange way to misinterpret the arguments above: no one is claiming to be "desperate" or that they'll "flounder" in newbie zones.

 

In particular, I'm saying that I've long since run out of ways to find the old zones fun _for me_; adding gliding made them more interesting again and adding mounts made them even more interesting (something that surprised me).

 

If your complaint is about the knockbacks and the damage, then why not simply ask for that to be reduced (if you read up, a lot "yes, mounts" supporters above support that).

 

As a PS, please try to avoid being disparaging about the people who hold views that differ from yours. It should be sufficient to make the argument that the knockbacks & mount damage have an impact on newer players and that might be something that ANet doesn't want. People would likely help figure out ways to keep mounts and address that, rather than argue with you about what the issue even is.

 

 

[SoulPariah.2856]

It's not a great idea to add limitations to things after you've given them to players without a reason that they themselves can understand and appreciate, otherwise they will feel slighted, and rightfully so in my opinion. In general, the concept in an open world game like this is to _add_ incentives to return to "completed" zones, not remove them.

Starter zones only account for 13% of the rotation for daily event completion, one could argue there is a greater benefit to new players having some veteran players around than there are downsides, and if you really want to stick to your point, you always have 4 starter cities and 3 other starter zones to work on completing/exploring, and if you do story missions, they're in instances so you're unaffected. The players working on the achievement don't have another option. They need to be in the map to complete it.

Finally, you countered your own point by bringing up high level skills already allowing vets to zerg this content, so the issue exists regardless of the mounts.

 

[bonus side bar: "abusing", "exploiting", "deriving some sense of joy", "marketing ploy", and "cash cow" were all words/phrases you used to insert negative connotations about other players/devs' personal character and intentions. My personal opinion is that you don't have the right to do that, but since we're in the discussion forum, I'll just ask you - was there something productive you were trying to achieve by using this sarcasm and characterization, and if so, did you in fact achieve that goal? I'm not trying to be rude when I ask that, although I am defending a point; I just think it's important to think about. There is another discussion site where this is the standard way to comment, and I'd really like to see those kinds of comments stay there, and this forum be used more for productivity and constructive debate aimed to becoming a better community and improving the game. However, that's just my opinion and I can't speak for everyone.]

 

WOW

 

Edit:

Then I saw this.....

 

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> So the big complaint I'm hearing is that in 5 zones (1-15 level newbie areas) certain players desperately need to have their mounts in order to do something they should have already completed. Without being able to use their mounts in these zones they'll flounder? They'll be unable to cope, and for these blessed few we have the bow down to their whimpering. Get over yourselves, think of something more than yourself and how you'll be effected.

 

It goes on, but...yeah......

Forget all the niceties. This discussion should be deleted and if desired reposted without the condescension, personal attacks, and sneering judgmental attitude from OP to literally anyone who does not agree with him. OP, you're the one with the minority opinion, so I don't know what whimpering you think you're bowing to here - people are merely telling you why they disagree with your premise, You are the one who want to take away from 90% of players to give to 10% something they probably don't even care that much about, so while you're doling out all your wonderful advice why don't you take some of your own, get over yourself and stop flaming anyone who does not share you opinion. Can't give you any other advice, because I'm desperately trying not to be rude....

 

www.reddit.com <-- don't know if you've heard of this cite, but I think you'd fit in well there.

 

Have a great day.

[notebene.3190]

If the idea is to remove the mount ability damage (but keep utility, doesn't that help everyone?), or tone it down, that's fine, but I think there's some great utility in their riding (flying, jumping, leaping, teleporting) abilities that have 'nothing' to do with people that don't have them, and are quite useful for those of us who do. I actually don't ride mine all that much in lower level zones. I happen to rather enjoy meandering along a road or a countryside enjoying my characters. But when I get a Daily Lumber in Metrica Province, and the formula for the tree nodes looks something like (pseudo) "if today is zone gather day, then the closest gather node is 3,572 miles away from the zones world boss, and node proximity coefficient is plus 400 miles", then you can bet I'm going to mount up and find those nodes ASAP before I dismount and get back to enjoying myself (because honestly, if I had written the code, I would make the world boss say, "My only regret is never having become an arborist!", then they plant 4 trees quickly, and die). And no, I'm not going to go to the home instance in Rata Sum to do it because: a) I'm stubborn, b) I like my home instance in Divinity's Reach and c) I'm stubborn.

 

On a side note, I've never seen a world boss when people's mounts have shut out people without them. They don't even make that much of a difference in pres? I keep seeing people use them on the 3 guys off to the side of Maw that come out before that boss guy is attackable and other than pulling them all in (which is great for my axe warrior!), they hardly do any damage to them at all, and certainly don't 'own' that event.

 

Now, if someone is terrorizing you with their mount, following you around and killing all the mobs before you get there while you are trying to have fun in an event or do a heart, by all means, I think you should get to report them, and would hope they would punish them.

[Taurondir.7698]

This games "instances" everything in one way or another. It would make more sense to make the instancing break up players more based on "actual" level. If you are Level 80, then make the server NOT try and place you in the low level zones with _actual_ low level people, when It can, while grouping the starter players with other starters more.

 

I'm surprised this is not what happens already.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

Mounts will never be curtailed because they provide the thing that modern MMO players obsess about over all things... speed and time. If they progress as other games, they will become faster and faster. There will be calls to be able to do things mounted like harvesting, vistas, vendors, npc dialog, because of the "time" taken to dismount. Eventually there will be requests for combat and looting while mounted, cause "time".

 

I like mounts, but I'm not in a compulsive hurry and don't bother for a lot of the game. The vast majority are in a frantic hurry. Pandora's Box has been opened, and will not be shut.

[Squee.7829]

I think the mounts were done fine and it was a tremendously good idea to make them have only one attack, then disappear, unable to be summoned again until combat is over. I think that was done specifically to prevent people "dominating " events with mounts.

 

However, you bring up a good point that it DOES still happen a little. I think an easy fix will be to scale down mount damage in relevant areas. Me, as a level 80 whatever, will do about 1/4 of my normal damage in a level 20 zone. (I think that's just a gross oversimplification of the scaling system, but let's just go with it for now). However, my mount does just as much damage in Queensdale as it does in the Domain of Vabbi. It should be made to scale accordingly. That would let us keep the convenience of our mounts without making them a problem for lower level people and events.

[Weindrasi.3805]

I enjoy having mounts in starter areas. I've been playing this game since launch, and have run over 20 characters through the starting areas. After all that, it gets old. I know the starter areas like the back of my hand, and at this point, having a mount for when I choose to transverse those areas is very nice.

I find myself using mounts almost constantly throughout core Tyria--much more than I use them in PoF--even though I don't technically NEED them to access anything in Core.

It's just that, there's nothing new for me to discover in Core, so whenever I want something there, speed and efficiency is lovely to have.

[jia li ng.8415]

Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox

but look at from another players perspective,

 

The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)

I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

 

I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

 

5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

 

A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @Squee.7829 said:

> I think the mounts were done fine and it was a tremendously good idea to make them have only one attack, then disappear, unable to be summoned again until combat is over. I think that was done specifically to prevent people "dominating " events with mounts.

>

> However, you bring up a good point that it DOES still happen a little. I think an easy fix will be to scale down mount damage in relevant areas. Me, as a level 80 whatever, will do about 1/4 of my normal damage in a level 20 zone. (I think that's just a gross oversimplification of the scaling system, but let's just go with it for now). However, my mount does just as much damage in Queensdale as it does in the Domain of Vabbi. It should be made to scale accordingly. That would let us keep the convenience of our mounts without making them a problem for lower level people and events.

 

The only problem with that is that people will still complain because "players with mounts can get to events faster and finish them before i get there". While that would be ok, scaling down mount engage skills, it still won't shut up people about mounts. People just like to complain about something new and don't want to adjust to what they're used to.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox

> but look at from another players perspective,

>

> The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)

> I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

>

> I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

>

> 5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

>

 

That's very noble of you but they are still free players with far more limitations than just not having mounts. They do have movement skills so they can do it like we all moved before mounts. Haste and other tricks. It's not a raptor jump but it's not garbage either.

 

But i'm still not seeing your point here. Who are those evil players who are harassing newbies? If this is happening, just report them, let Anet sort that out, the solution isn't to ban mounts in 1-15 areas because someone will then outgrow those areas very quickly, move on to others and start complaining about mounts in higher areas because mounts will be there. Also, remember, mounts are masteries, once you unlock them, all your character have them by default. Even my lvl 12 elementalist has a mount and i only explored the first map with him. So it's not about big bad lvl 80 bullies that come to lvl 1-15 maps for no reason, it's about Path of Fire players having something free players don't. But that's not something that can be "fixed" because it isn't broken, PoF players paid for mounts (among other things) and Anet decided they can be used almost everywhere and **designed them with that in mind**.

[jia li ng.8415]

At the very least F2P players can enjoy growing used to their new surroundings that we somehow got bored with and once they make it into the respective towns a whole new world with dazzling creatures can open up for them. Just as when we started playing 4 years ago, we didn't need gliders or mounts, there were those who wanted them, but we didn't need them. Somehow we survived. Change is inevitable, that's why this game is so far ahead of any other game out there. Perhaps its to purist to imagine players learning the mechanics of their chosen professions in the clean world we shared so long ago.

 

[Hamburger Jack.2543]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> Why is it that no one was really upset when gliding was expanded, but mounts are driving everyone insane?

> "The mounts allow people to bypass hard parts of JPs!" So does a mesmer with help.

> "Mounts are costing me too much money!" Then don't buy the griffon or the optional skins.

> "Mounts are ..."

> Does it really take away from your enjoyment if I'm able to jump across a chasm in PvE and you can't?

> The only time a mount serves one person to the detriment of others is when a character can't reach an event before the monster/boss is killed because everyone else on mounts was there first.

 

It doesn't and I'm really trying to find out why this is hurting people other than some people can afford the expansion (Mounts) and Mount Skins and some people can not andd the word "exploitation" keeps getting thrown around and words do not mean what you think they mean people

 

I am going to use Springer AoE on everything thing and get world completion done EVEN FASTER

[Hamburger Jack.2543]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> At the very least F2P players can enjoy growing used to their new surroundings that we somehow got bored with and once they make it into the respective towns a whole new world with dazzling creatures can open up for them. Just as when we started playing 4 years ago, we didn't need gliders or mounts, there were those who wanted them, but we didn't need them. Somehow we survived. Change is inevitable, that's why this game is so far ahead of any other game out there. Perhaps its to purist to imagine players learning the mechanics of their chosen professions in the clean world we shared so long ago.

>

 

?????

 

What are you even talking about?

 

If you want to enjoy a mountless world make a new account and run those maps on foot. You do you, but let's not pretend you're out here for the F2Ps or the Expansionless people okay. They didn't elect you, let it go. The events on the starter maps come back pretty fast, so even if someone does take out a mob on a mount, it'll be okay.

 

You know before gliders and mounts I used to ABSOLUTELY hate Rangers for being able to kill everything before my meser could do anything. I said, hey, maybe I should get a ranger

 

And I did

 

If these players are suffering and can't complete the events quickly and think mounts are the key, hey well, they can get a mount but it's no necessary and we really DO NOT need game purity or mount police. We don't.

 

I understand your position but please. Please.

 

Please.

[Veprovina.4876]

Well no one is stopping new players from exploring core tyria the way it was meant to. Especially F2P players, they literally can't explore core Tyria any other way. Which is good. They can't even get mounts before level 80 and starting PoF quest. Now there's that somewhat misguided lvl 80 boost Anet is throwing around for peolpe who buy expansions, but still, that's another issue. Where players boost their character, gain access to everything then don't know what to do and how to play, or don't even go through the journey we did when we were starting out. Their loss i say, but whatever.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox

> but look at from another players perspective,

>

> The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)

> I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

>

> I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

>

> 5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

>

> A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

>

 

I have an account with no gliders or mounts. I’ve never seen these players taking away my kills using mount attack skills.

[Hamburger Jack.2543]

Mounts or no Mounts RANGERS ARE STILL KILLING EVERYTHING BEFORE I CAN GET TO IT.

 

If you wanna ban mounts in these areas, ban rangers too. I'm sick of them and their fast ass es running past me when I haven't collected enough HPs a yet or am on a Guardian. No rangers in 1-15 areas. Sorry rangers. I've had ENOUGH.

[jia li ng.8415]

Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

 

Seriously, what are you on about?

[LightningWolfTigerBear.672]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

 

Have you actually spoken to any of these players you're in enraged on behalf of? How many? Did any feel even half as strongly about this topic as you seem to?

 

> I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

 

The only person I've seen on a tirade in this thread is you.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Truth is I completely agree with everyone about mounts ...Very Useful, can't live without 'em, and good tool in the toolbox

> but look at from another players perspective,

>

> The F2P players have absolutely no voice here, they can't comment or strike up a tread (though they can read)

> I am attempting to be that silenced voice, I see an errant newbie playing and try to see things from their eyes.

>

> I really can't believe that by the sacrifice of 5 lowly maps people are in such a tirade, with the expansion we got what?, oh yeah, 5 maps

>

> 5 much more challenging maps, but it seems that level 80 players need to play in the sandbox with the level 2 newbies

>

> A comment made by a player in the Crystal Desert earlier this afternoon, " have you noticed Path of Fire has become a ghost town?" ... Ironic

>

 

Im sorry, but if the F2P players ever get a voice about where paying customers can or can't use their gaming privileges then yes, I believe there would be an all out tirade on this particular matter.

 

No one is stopping anyone from purchasing the game (or its expansions) and making their voices heard or discovering the world outside of these starter zones. And since Anet deemed mounts and gliders usable everywhere players that have them want to use them, and since any level character could technically go any where they want in core backwards or forwards no restrictions short of possible death for lowbies in a higher area, then it really makes no difference where people choose to take their toys or lack of or why they choose to do these things, it's their choice as a customer.

 

But, being told you're not allowed to use your toys today because Johnny can't afford them or can't be bothered to support the company that let him play with generic toys free of charge when most of us weren't given that luxary when we started? That'd be a question of whose interests are we trying to protect more, people that have shown loyalty, patronage and hardwork or people that just came to the game recently and decided the past doesnt matter because it's intruding on their personal space.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Well, as the numbers of players drop from Path of Fire, change will come, as for those who insist on playing in the kiddie sandbox with their new toys, go for it.

 

Thanks. I will.

 

You know.... maybe a thread asking for a scale down of mount attacks or asking to remove the daily map events in low level maps from accounts with one level 80 would be better than attacking those who like to play as the game is designed.