When did PvP start to die?

[Derps.7421]

Pvp died after the reward change and then was promptly killed again when people had to deal with Petting zoo Spirit Rangers for like 5ish months

[Rezzet.3614]

Pvp started to die back when engi turrets got nerfed because that is when condi meta was beggining, turrets were a hard counter because of condi imunity and Rabid gear was the meta

[Ziggityzog.7389]

> @Marxx.5021 said:

> PvP has started to die when stronghold failed as pvp mode and anet decided to reduce resources spend on pvp.

 

I'd have to agree with that one not on the list. Since now all you haae to choose from in "ranked" is circle dancing pvp, circle dancing pvp, circle dancing pvp or guess what more circle dancing pvp!.

 

Here is a circle dancing conq map image.


 

[Damocles.4908]

Id say it was the whole new trait line, when you could use two 2 minor traits the could suite you better depending on your build. I also Hated the condition unlimited for an interesting reason being : I used to be a bleed warrior and 25 stacks of bleed would do alot of damage....now I have to try and get it to 40 before the damage becomes equal to the damage before the patch and honestly cant really do it now. It made each class more support/ offensive specific...now it feels like most classes can do everything.

[Exciton.8942]

Specialization rework was fine. It was power creep but somewhat helped build diversity. The only problem back then was cele amulet.

 

HoT introduced unrecoverable problem and created a very unpleasant bunker meta. They had to remove tons of amulets to keep PvP somewhat playable.

[Cynz.9437]

June pre-Hot patch, imo. Variety died with that patch. Then HoT came and we were forced into elites and with them into spammfest for the sake of sales. Same thing with PoF.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

It was already spammy compared to gw1 on release.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> It was already spammy compared to gw1 on release.

 

anything is worse than holy gw1 (in opinion of certain players) but we are talking about gw2 here

[Miaz.8521]

The day the green expansion has been released.

[Miaz.8521]

I agree with Irrwi actually, the game was not designed around the powercreep that three full traitlines provide to the player so it just makes sense how everything has become a mess.

[Ara.4569]

Pre-HoT wasn't even remotely balanced. Then they further imbalanced each core profession by tweaking traits to fit the upcoming HoT elite specs.

It went from bad to worse even before ESL. ANet's management at its best.

[Razor.6392]

Voted for this one because it answers the thread title, but pvp truly died after HoT hit.

 

Who can forget:

* Scrapper outputting ridiculous damage and being unkillable on marauder because of traits and gyros. Better stealth application than thief and low cast times.

* Perma evade and vault spam thief

* Completely braindead-anything DH with their unreactable pull, traps, 8k damage true shot, heavy light trait (all of which have been nerfed, even if it took 2 years).

* 5000 AOE radius arcing slice (or whatever the GS berserker burst skill is called)

* Gunflame a better killshot, with almost no cast time and similar damage.

* Druid and their 1 shot pets, 10s CA, 10s ancient seeds, staff 1 spam, staff 3, etc. . To this day it still remains as the most mindless spec I've ever seen in mmos.

* Tempest turning ele, a fast attunement dancing class, into an attunement camping, clunky and poorly thought out spec. Shoutouts to devs dying to svanir.

* Chronos and their never ending shield blocks, op wells, bunker specs, double moa, ridiculous clone generation. I remember when mesmer took skill to use.

* Reaper and chill doing damage. I'd take that any day over lolscourge though.

* Revenant hiding its relatively high skill cap under completely over-tuned skills like unrelenting assault, precision strike, crystal hibernation and surge of the mists. Permaboon spam and reveal to seal the package.

 

That's when pvp died. Even now it hasn't recovered and PoF certainly didn't help, although it's nowhere near HoT levels of disgust.

[xDudisx.5914]

When they removed celestial and all bunker amulets and tried to push everyone to glass canon build.

 

Spvp lost the little credibility it still had.

[Xillllix.3485]

When they changed the trait system just before hot I lost all my favorite build and build variety was destroyed. The game has never recovered from this. Having the points to spend in every line as you wish had much more depth.

 

Then hot was the final nail in the coffin.

[LUST.7241]

It started with how HoT was implemented and how the PvP team saw balancing...which is still proven with the fact even today that Scourge is still a problem. There is no sense of urgency to balance in a timely fashion and the scene just starts to die off because of it.

 

The issue with Rewards is mainly to how it was executed. While not the root cause to decline, still a small factor.

* Year of Ascension, which is still the most terribly designed Legendary Backpack "collection", promoted AFK and inexperienced profession play for rewards. Plus, all the [prerequistes are all over the place](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/823/prerequiste-lock-on-year-of-ascension#latest "prerequistes are all over the place").

* League Reward Tracks originally didn't give pips on losses (S1-4), but then was changed (S5+)...which further promoted AFK play.

 

Plus, the PvP algorithm tries to bite off more than it can chew which is the silent killer.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @Xillllix.3485 said:

> When they changed the trait system just before hot I lost all my favorite build and build variety was destroyed. The game has never recovered from this. Having the points to spend in every line as you wish had much more depth.

The "depth" was entirely imaginary and symptomatic of what a dumpster fire the original traits were (case in point: there are existing traits made of two or more old traits and they're _still bad_).

[Jinks.2057]

June 2015 patch started it.

 

I remember post patch instantly creating brain dead gameplay. The months,leading up to HoT release was an extremely uncaring & unprofessional treatment of a player base.

 

They left us out there with cele ele using 3 full trait lines and Insta stunning 1 shot kill mesmers and other broken things.

[Loboling.5293]

Although, to be frank, I think a lot of what made pvp in HoT problematic was solved fairly well before PoF. As someone who was playing rev during the 2 meta's before HoT, I can tell you it didn't feel like a spam meta, and I had a lot of fun before scourges forced me to change mains... (Mirage didn't help either, but it wasn't any worse than condi thief) Now, I joined in the spam, and just spam away for points... But I'm only playing about 1 game a day max for my daily.

 

Spam wars may have started in HoT, but it was PoF that took it to the next level... I'm so disappointed that they released the expansion into pvp like this. I enjoyed PoF, but pvp was pretty much ruined, and I'll say this over and over: PVP is now in the Hard Counter Meta. On my Soulbeast, I can make Scourges cry; when I meet a Scourge with any lifeforce on my rev there is nothing I can do... Rock, Paper, Scissors. So much is wrong right now in pvp, I've given up for now. (I'll still do my daily rofl game) I hope the devs find a way forward, but they've made me reinstall some games I never thought possible. haha

[choovanski.5462]

trait revamp was the beginning of the end, but HoT combined w the loss of Grouch was just GG boys

 

heavy powercreep and the dude who cared about PvP and got things done leaving, how could we have expected PvP to go anywhere but down hill from there?

[P Fun Daddy.1208]

I picked HoT, because it's the closest, but I think it started even before that really. I honestly completely skipped HoT, since I didn't feel like buying a game I already owned again, but already prior to that PvP had started to decline when they started trying to make conditions competitive with direct damage in PvE. This started pushing the meta in a direction that was frankly just less involved; conditions have always been both easier to apply and more hard-countered, and their taking a greater portion of the meta pie (as in, taking more roles than the few already allowed) really hurt the PvP scene overall, especially when high-dps condition specs started arriving, and their hard counters (that alone removed everything hybrid that wasn't the FOTM cele build) in turn. It vastly diminished the build variety potential, and the relevance of skill as well.

[cursE.1794]

GW2 pvp died when HoT turned the game into an aoe/cc spam fest. I said it 2 years ago, many others said it 2 years ago, ArenaNet didn't listen. Now it's worse. That's what happens. There are smart people out there who make good decisions. And then there is this part of ArenaNet.

 

I feel like the team that made GW2 in the first place and the pve content of the addons, especially HoT, are doing a great job while the people who design the elite specs (just look at weaver being completely broken and the community feedback being ignored) and who are responsible for the live management of the game are doing a terrible job. There is such great design in the pve world, like the gliding through the HoT jungle and the map design with jumping mushrooms and different layers, the mini games etc. and then there is the pvp team. Or the people who refuse to implement a mechanic to have your map slot in pve environments reserved for 2 minutes in case you have a disconnect. Or the people who screwed up the game client in 2015 which caused the game to crash for a lot of players, another thing that hasn't been fixed so far. Such great work on one side, such a terrible job on the other side.

[corey.6451]

I think all of the above. they hasnt made one good decision since launch. the only one thing that is good is season 5, but then the match making was so bad that people just leave again. so disappointed, but it is over.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Yeah spam wars 2 seemed to bring down the whole game with HoT dropping. PvE got a awesome boost but then wvw and PvP suffered because of spam wars. Still even mif we didnt have spam wars 2 tho, we would still have the PvE reward hunters/afks and match manipulators in pvp. i really feel making it a PvE reward farm area started the downward spiral.

[Malafaia.8903]

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> > @Malafaia.8903 said:

> > > @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

> > > When foolish ppl where the ones trying overjealousy to defend their spec , leading to most cacuals to not care any more . And in the end the ''foolish ones'' , where the ones activly left on the forums to cry about imbalance ...

> > >

> > > When they remove the pip gained bonus (rather than MMR number , you got PiPs to preogress the Ladder), depending on how close the the end score was , leading to increaset he Afkers/Give Up ppl from 6% to 25% .

> > > By listening to those same ''foolish ppl'' that other esport games have the flat mote ''WINNER TAKES ALL'' and that 'ladder was the worst-casual-friendly Ladder- there is in all the world''

> >

> > THANK YOU!

> > After 4 months playing pvp and using the forums i think that is exactly what the problem is.

> > That 10% of playerbase that is loud, elitist and salty.

>

> Can i just say, pvp isn't for casuals, people want to win its a competitive game mode, if you don't like competitive game modes stop pvping, there are people your in queue with your your ruining the one outlet that they have for the day. If your that idiot who can't rotate or dying 15times and some guy asks you to stop being bad he's not being elitist he telling stop being kitten at the god kitten game, I never get this anytime some one gives you any form of criticism people cry Elitism out of kitten nowhere.

 

- Why did you assume i'm not here to win?

- Why do you think other ppl time worths more than mine?

- Why did you assume i'm an "idiot" who will feed?

- Why did you assume i don't take construtive criticism?

 

> Why can't you casuals understand you step into a competitive game mode people aren't gonna give you safe space if you want one play kitten pve solo, after all net rebalanced almost all of pvp for it to be soloable so you people would cry less but even now you ever now and again spill over into the pvp scene and ruin things there too.

>

> Remember ORR

> Remember Old dungeons

> Remember HoT Release

> Remember the contant tears about 5man teams in a team game

> Remember now people over 1600 cannot duo

> Remember how people had to fight to get post game stats

> Remember how people had to fight to actually see wvw numbers/

>

> Every part of the game you and your elk fill up demanding the game become easier before you actually learn the game mode or the area. It truly still astounds me after all of the changes anet have made to make this game easier YOU GUYS STILL FIND THINGS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

 

- Why did you assume that i don't know the game mechanics?

- If you read my post again you'll see that i'm not complaining about nothing. I was agreeing that ppl don't want to learn and will just defende their specs on forum blindlessly.

 

You see, my friend? You are exactly that toxic loud and elitist one that thinks your opinion has more value than other ppl opinions. Just stop.