Crinn.7864 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Chaith.8256 said: > > @serialkicker.5274 said: > > Just remove PvP, they will never be happy there. > > We'd have deleted Necromancers [...] long ago too if the happiness of their respective forum posters is what we're going off of Guilty as charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephiroth.4217 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @ZhouX.8742 said: > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > @Malediktus.9250 said: > > > > @Morwath.9817 said: > > > > First they came for the _Diamond Skin_, and I did not speak out— > > > > Because I was not an _Elementalist_. > > > > > > > > Then they came for the _Deathly Chill_, and I did not speak out— > > > > Because I was not a _Necromancer_. > > > > > > > > Then they came for the _Ventari Healers_, and I did not speak out— > > > > Because I was not a _Revenant_. > > > > > > > > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. > > > > > > > > ~Martin Niemöller > > > They were in need of a nerf > > > > Maybe, but the way 'nerf' happened, was exacly same as you suggested to do with Mesmer Portal. > > Both Diamond Skin and Deathly Chill were unique mechanics, which got 'removed' and replaced with something "similar". > > You'll blame the player base instead of how Anet balances based on testing internally, never utilize a public testing server to gauge shave changes and react based on public testing . That's cool. > > The reality is, they were broken mechanics, it's not the playerbase's fault that Anet cannot balance and shave properly. Diamond skin was only strong against pure condition builds. Anyone who took power or carrion had no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks.5249 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Malediktus.9250 said: > It is way too strong and a tool no other class has. As long as mesmer has portal it will always be god tier in pvp. no leave them i love putting my traps on them then using bonfire has soon has they appear most of the time they are dead in 5 sec is funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > > Mesmer portal is our very last and final mechanic. It's on a 72 second cool down. **This is a learn to play issue.** Portal does no damage, in contrast to Sand Swell and it's already rather heavily nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > My impression is that there is a general hatred of Mesmer. > > > > > > > > How is this a learn to play issue? How do you learn to play and counter the portal mechanic? > > > > > > > > Stop using buzzwords please. > > > > > > First the skill is on a *72 second* cool down. Any skill on that long a cool down is going to be hard to call OP. It's only really used in specific circumstances that are easily predicted. A skilled player should have an idea of when / where it's coming. > > > > > > Second the skill has already undergone major nerfs to it's escape potential. For example, Revenant attacks will actually follow you through a portal. Oh, and the Mesmer is teleporting completely blind. They have no idea what's on the other end, Necro marks or a warrior waiting with stunlock. **The exit portal changes color, alerting anyone nearby that the Mesmer is coming.** > > > > > > **What other skill in GW2 actually gives an advantage to the enemy? OH, I know... for quite a while [Time Warp], another Mesmer skill, buffed the enemy by extending the duration of their skills.** > > > > > > Third this idea that it can be used for team mobility is largely a myth. In 5+ years, I've never had a PvP team actually use a portal set up for that purpose. The odd teammate, yes.. but never a team group. My team usually even ignores rescue portals. Unless you're on a full tryhard team.. this simply doesn't happen. > > > > > > Fourth, Portal does no damage. It's hard to call a skill that does 0 damage or heal and no buffs OP. > > > > > > This is a case of people being upset by a good play, ( or a lucky one.) > > > > I know how portal works. I'm still waiting on the counterplay and l2p tips. Can this be avoided? Can you work around it if they have a mesmer and you don't? > > > > Note that I don't want it nerfed, it's just that maybe you shouldn't use big words if you don't know how to properly back them up. > > I have just given a counterplay method, ( beyond the long CD and the fact that the skill won't be used often.) Let me repeat for you: > > The teleport is blind. It's also likely to be used in a predictable fashion. Here's an oversimplified scenario; The Mesmer is contesting far and needs or wants to withdraw, perhaps to support Mid. They leave a portal behind. It is now available for 60 seconds. > > Now, very likely, the Mesmer is hoping you'll leave the point and they can pop back and decap. You will know if they open a second portal, because the one near the point will glow brightly. The Mesmer now has 10 seconds maximum to use the portal or it's gone and the CD wasted. > > Shortly before the Mesmer arrives the portal will change color, giving you more than enough time to execute your aoe rotation and/or gain might etc. In addition, the Mesmer is likely to be low on cd's and / or health when they arrive and they have no idea whether you're there. You may well one-shot them. You know exactly where they'll be in a moment,( the center of the portal.) > > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* > > I don't know how to be much more explicit. I do, however, recommend that you read my responses. I don't use words that I don't understand. I don't think you know what counterplay means. You are explaining once again how portal works. I'm baffled that you think that I'm stupid hence the need to put it in really simple words, despite the fact that _you_ are the one who is speaking total nonsense. Hilarious. No solo mesmer will port through without being ready to dodge or while in stealth, and if it's a really bad fight, they can always jump back into it. Furthermore, the issue with portal is not just the mesmer making use of it, but entire teams for superior map control. I suppose your idea of counterplay is having 1-3 teammates waiting until the portal "glows brightly" then you can attempt to gank one of the 2 or 3 enemies that come out of it. A very unrealistic scenario that would require a bit of coordination on top of it, something unheard of in soloq. > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* Having to decide between letting my team fight outnumbered or potentially concede the mid point to a mesmer for a free decap (in which the mesmer can choose to return to the fight) is not counterplay. It's actually the complete opposite. There is no counterplay lol. What's your division in pvp btw? Actually, what's your rank? (the little number at the top bottom left of your screen *only visible while inside heart of the mists*) I'm really curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Morwath.9817 said: > First they came for the _Diamond Skin_, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not an _Elementalist_. > > Then they came for the _Deathly Chill_, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a _Necromancer_. > > Then they came for the _Ventari Healers_, and I did not speak out— > Because I was not a _Revenant_. > > Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. > > ~Martin Niemöller Best post in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Razor.6392 said: > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > > > Mesmer portal is our very last and final mechanic. It's on a 72 second cool down. **This is a learn to play issue.** Portal does no damage, in contrast to Sand Swell and it's already rather heavily nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > My impression is that there is a general hatred of Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > How is this a learn to play issue? How do you learn to play and counter the portal mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > Stop using buzzwords please. > > > > > > > > First the skill is on a *72 second* cool down. Any skill on that long a cool down is going to be hard to call OP. It's only really used in specific circumstances that are easily predicted. A skilled player should have an idea of when / where it's coming. > > > > > > > > Second the skill has already undergone major nerfs to it's escape potential. For example, Revenant attacks will actually follow you through a portal. Oh, and the Mesmer is teleporting completely blind. They have no idea what's on the other end, Necro marks or a warrior waiting with stunlock. **The exit portal changes color, alerting anyone nearby that the Mesmer is coming.** > > > > > > > > **What other skill in GW2 actually gives an advantage to the enemy? OH, I know... for quite a while [Time Warp], another Mesmer skill, buffed the enemy by extending the duration of their skills.** > > > > > > > > Third this idea that it can be used for team mobility is largely a myth. In 5+ years, I've never had a PvP team actually use a portal set up for that purpose. The odd teammate, yes.. but never a team group. My team usually even ignores rescue portals. Unless you're on a full tryhard team.. this simply doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > Fourth, Portal does no damage. It's hard to call a skill that does 0 damage or heal and no buffs OP. > > > > > > > > This is a case of people being upset by a good play, ( or a lucky one.) > > > > > > I know how portal works. I'm still waiting on the counterplay and l2p tips. Can this be avoided? Can you work around it if they have a mesmer and you don't? > > > > > > Note that I don't want it nerfed, it's just that maybe you shouldn't use big words if you don't know how to properly back them up. > > > > I have just given a counterplay method, ( beyond the long CD and the fact that the skill won't be used often.) Let me repeat for you: > > > > The teleport is blind. It's also likely to be used in a predictable fashion. Here's an oversimplified scenario; The Mesmer is contesting far and needs or wants to withdraw, perhaps to support Mid. They leave a portal behind. It is now available for 60 seconds. > > > > Now, very likely, the Mesmer is hoping you'll leave the point and they can pop back and decap. You will know if they open a second portal, because the one near the point will glow brightly. The Mesmer now has 10 seconds maximum to use the portal or it's gone and the CD wasted. > > > > Shortly before the Mesmer arrives the portal will change color, giving you more than enough time to execute your aoe rotation and/or gain might etc. In addition, the Mesmer is likely to be low on cd's and / or health when they arrive and they have no idea whether you're there. You may well one-shot them. You know exactly where they'll be in a moment,( the center of the portal.) > > > > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* > > > > I don't know how to be much more explicit. I do, however, recommend that you read my responses. I don't use words that I don't understand. > > I don't think you know what counterplay means. You are explaining once again how portal works. I'm baffled that you think that I'm stupid hence the need to put it in really simple words, despite the fact that _you_ are the one who is speaking total nonsense. Hilarious. > According to Webster's, ( I'm too tired to make a proper citation, ) Noun 1. counterplay - (chess) an attack that is intended to counter the opponent's advantage in another part of the board Synonyms: counterattack You are using the word more in the sense of pre -empting a move, also referred to as a "pre-emptive strike." Spellbreaker and GW1 Mesmer are very good at pre-emptive moves but that doesn't apply here. *So you are actually using the word incorrectly. The "counterplay" here is to determine a move that will "counteract" the Mesmer portal.* One such move would be to wait for the Mesmer to return. Another would be to go to the team fight, knowing that the Mesmer's team will be outnumbered if they return to decap. So, I have repeatedly proposed valid counterplay. > No solo mesmer will port through without being ready to dodge or while in stealth, and if it's a really bad fight, they can always jump back into it. Furthermore, the issue with portal is not just the mesmer making use of it, but entire teams for superior map control. > A smart player will CC the Mesmer, preventing re using the portal. **Which is it? You argue that Mesmer portal is dangerous because it allows "entire teams" to have "superior map control".. then in the next paragraph you say that team coordination is non existent in support of your argument against my counter play suggestion.** You're saying opposite things here and that makes what you're saying logically invalid. > I suppose your idea of counterplay is having 1-3 teammates waiting until the portal "glows brightly" then you can attempt to gank one of the 2 or 3 enemies that come out of it. A very unrealistic scenario that would require a bit of coordination on top of it, something unheard of in soloq. > > > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* > > Having to decide between letting my team fight outnumbered or potentially concede the mid point to a mesmer for a free decap (in which the mesmer can choose to return to the fight) is not counterplay. It's actually the complete opposite. There is no counterplay lol. > If the Mesmer returns, your team isn't out numbered. Again, you need to think about the circumstances and come up with a decision. No, the Mesmer cannot "choose to return to the fight." The portal remains open for 10 seconds, it's gone before you can really decap. > What's your division in pvp btw? Actually, what's your rank? (the little number at the top bottom left of your screen *only visible while inside heart of the mists*) I'm really curious. > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarghhrrkblah.3412 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I just wish it were easier to see if the portal was an allied or enemy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said: > I just wish it were easier to see if the portal was an allied or enemy one. I support this one. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyczer.7834 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Cant u just kill the mesmer lol, problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Waste of time to reply to that creature. I'm done lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaith.8256 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @rwolf.9571 said: > I see alot of mesmers in matchmaking these days on both teams. Sometimes 2 v 2 mesmers more often than not. So why should this be an issue now? Both sides have potential ports. >Every side has X, so, X must be fine > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > > > @Razor.6392 said: > > > > > > > @Ithilwen.1529 said: > > > > > > > Mesmer portal is our very last and final mechanic. It's on a 72 second cool down. **This is a learn to play issue.** Portal does no damage, in contrast to Sand Swell and it's already rather heavily nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My impression is that there is a general hatred of Mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is this a learn to play issue? How do you learn to play and counter the portal mechanic? > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop using buzzwords please. > > > > > > > > > > First the skill is on a *72 second* cool down. Any skill on that long a cool down is going to be hard to call OP. It's only really used in specific circumstances that are easily predicted. A skilled player should have an idea of when / where it's coming. > > > > > > > > > > Second the skill has already undergone major nerfs to it's escape potential. For example, Revenant attacks will actually follow you through a portal. Oh, and the Mesmer is teleporting completely blind. They have no idea what's on the other end, Necro marks or a warrior waiting with stunlock. **The exit portal changes color, alerting anyone nearby that the Mesmer is coming.** > > > > > > > > > > **What other skill in GW2 actually gives an advantage to the enemy? OH, I know... for quite a while [Time Warp], another Mesmer skill, buffed the enemy by extending the duration of their skills.** > > > > > > > > > > Third this idea that it can be used for team mobility is largely a myth. In 5+ years, I've never had a PvP team actually use a portal set up for that purpose. The odd teammate, yes.. but never a team group. My team usually even ignores rescue portals. Unless you're on a full tryhard team.. this simply doesn't happen. > > > > > > > > > > Fourth, Portal does no damage. It's hard to call a skill that does 0 damage or heal and no buffs OP. > > > > > > > > > > This is a case of people being upset by a good play, ( or a lucky one.) > > > > > > > > I know how portal works. I'm still waiting on the counterplay and l2p tips. Can this be avoided? Can you work around it if they have a mesmer and you don't? > > > > > > > > Note that I don't want it nerfed, it's just that maybe you shouldn't use big words if you don't know how to properly back them up. > > > > > > I have just given a counterplay method, ( beyond the long CD and the fact that the skill won't be used often.) Let me repeat for you: > > > > > > The teleport is blind. It's also likely to be used in a predictable fashion. Here's an oversimplified scenario; The Mesmer is contesting far and needs or wants to withdraw, perhaps to support Mid. They leave a portal behind. It is now available for 60 seconds. > > > > > > Now, very likely, the Mesmer is hoping you'll leave the point and they can pop back and decap. You will know if they open a second portal, because the one near the point will glow brightly. The Mesmer now has 10 seconds maximum to use the portal or it's gone and the CD wasted. > > > > > > Shortly before the Mesmer arrives the portal will change color, giving you more than enough time to execute your aoe rotation and/or gain might etc. In addition, the Mesmer is likely to be low on cd's and / or health when they arrive and they have no idea whether you're there. You may well one-shot them. You know exactly where they'll be in a moment,( the center of the portal.) > > > > > > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* > > > > > > I don't know how to be much more explicit. I do, however, recommend that you read my responses. I don't use words that I don't understand. > > > > I don't think you know what counterplay means. You are explaining once again how portal works. I'm baffled that you think that I'm stupid hence the need to put it in really simple words, despite the fact that _you_ are the one who is speaking total nonsense. Hilarious. > > > > According to Webster's, ( I'm too tired to make a proper citation, ) > Noun > 1. > counterplay - (chess) an attack that is intended to counter the opponent's advantage in another part of the board > Synonyms: counterattack > > You are using the word more in the sense of pre -empting a move, also referred to as a "pre-emptive strike." Spellbreaker and GW1 Mesmer are very good at pre-emptive moves but that doesn't apply here. > > *So you are actually using the word incorrectly. The "counterplay" here is to determine a move that will "counteract" the Mesmer portal.* One such move would be to wait for the Mesmer to return. Another would be to go to the team fight, knowing that the Mesmer's team will be outnumbered if they return to decap. > > So, I have repeatedly proposed valid counterplay. > > > No solo mesmer will port through without being ready to dodge or while in stealth, and if it's a really bad fight, they can always jump back into it. Furthermore, the issue with portal is not just the mesmer making use of it, but entire teams for superior map control. > > > > A smart player will CC the Mesmer, preventing re using the portal. > > **Which is it? You argue that Mesmer portal is dangerous because it allows "entire teams" to have "superior map control".. then in the next paragraph you say that team coordination is non existent in support of your argument against my counter play suggestion.** > > You're saying opposite things here and that makes what you're saying logically invalid. > > > I suppose your idea of counterplay is having 1-3 teammates waiting until the portal "glows brightly" then you can attempt to gank one of the 2 or 3 enemies that come out of it. A very unrealistic scenario that would require a bit of coordination on top of it, something unheard of in soloq. > > > > > *You simply have to make a decision, based on circumstances. Is it better to guard the point or does your team need you elsewhere? This is a "learn to play" situation.* > > > > Having to decide between letting my team fight outnumbered or potentially concede the mid point to a mesmer for a free decap (in which the mesmer can choose to return to the fight) is not counterplay. It's actually the complete opposite. There is no counterplay lol. > > > > If the Mesmer returns, your team isn't out numbered. Again, you need to think about the circumstances and come up with a decision. > > No, the Mesmer cannot "choose to return to the fight." The portal remains open for 10 seconds, it's gone before you can really decap. > > > What's your division in pvp btw? Actually, what's your rank? (the little number at the top bottom left of your screen *only visible while inside heart of the mists*) I'm really curious. > > > > > > Time to fully decap a point: 5s. You can easily return to a fight. You're a Mesmer main, come on. You also can't CC a Mesmer to prevent them from escaping through portal. You can just open it during a blurred frenzy and go through. Mirage can just Jaunt, dodge out of CC, all Mesmer can blink, and it's open 10s to stagger through regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 "What's your division in pvp btw? Actually, what's your rank? (the little number at the top bottom left of your screen only visible while inside heart of the mists) I'm really curious." = "Tell me ur Rank , i wanna bash u for it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @blarghhrrkblah.3412 said: > I just wish it were easier to see if the portal was an allied or enemy one. Red portal for enemy team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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