Why hasnt Scourge been nerfed yet?

[Sovereign.1093]

anet could be playing scourge

[Chorazin.4107]

Just the amount of posts about Scourge tell a story lol. Theres even one in the PvP forum asking for a ban.

How many Soulbeast threads with people complaining are you seeing?

 

The condi application is too fast from shades + corrupt. The fact you can burn your condi clear then have Scourge number #2 just reapply every condi again compounds the issue. And good luck taking them out when they are babysat by minstrel FB's with reflects/blocks for all that range dmg people are claiming is so effective and healing.

 

What if they changed all corrupts to boon removals and added a new effect which is a boon blocker between one and three seconds depending upon which skill the target was hit with. Whilst you have a boon blocker on you, friendlies cannot apply boons to you.

 

[EvilSardine.9635]

Tried running around in the copy paste scourge build last night.

 

I basically walk into a fight and smash my F keys and weapon abilities without thinking about it. Everything dies. What the hell?

[intox.6347]

> @EvilSardine.9635 said:

> Tried running around in the copy paste scourge build last night.

>

> I basically walk into a fight and smash my F keys and weapon abilities without thinking about it. Everything dies. What the hell?

 

It dies, but not coz of you, you just tagged them and survive. Its new staff guard from old times, it can destroy plebs, but it cant messure with experienced group where you get slaughtered on 1200 range or catch in cc bomb.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @Chorazin.4107 said:

> Just the amount of posts about Scourge tell a story lol. Theres even one in the PvP forum asking for a ban.

> How many Soulbeast threads with people complaining are you seeing?

>

> The condi application is too fast from shades + corrupt. The fact you can burn your condi clear then have Scourge number #2 just reapply every condi again compounds the issue. And good luck taking them out when they are babysat by minstrel FB's with reflects/blocks for all that range dmg people are claiming is so effective and healing.

>

> What if they changed all corrupts to boon removals and added a new effect which is a boon blocker between one and three seconds depending upon which skill the target was hit with. Whilst you have a boon blocker on you, friendlies cannot apply boons to you.

>

 

Yea, and the story is there are too many players playing melee mashing the 1 key who refuse to go ranged.

 

And yes, I can down a scourge, barrier and all plus all buddies healing them in less than 7 seconds, by myself. It's that easy with ranged. Granted, reflects are a different story, but by that same token, then why not nerf guardian? Why not nerf reflect? Why should my arrows continuously be reflected back against a couple guardians rotating reflect walls? Do you think that is not a problem for ranged as much as a scourge is problem for melee? What about coordinated groups being able to give 100% up-time to condition immunity? Is that not a problem? I mean it's completely nullifying an entire set of damage. Why not give scourges the ability to have 100% up time to physical immunity, lets see how that flies...

 

It's all perspective, but the crux of the issue is, players refuse to play the classes that can easily decimate scourge. It can't be out-healed, heal skills have cooldowns #1 does not, and if it has a high crit factor, the scourge is all but dead in a matter of seconds.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @Inoki.6048 said:

> To be very frank, not just Scourge, but Spellbreakers are yet to receive a very powerful nerf. I am very tired fighting noobs who solely rely on 1) stun 2) constant invulnerability.

>

> People complain about Deadeye (which doesn't have unblockables), but everyone is fine with perma invulnerable warriors. Since when is a class allowed to be unkillable? I say remove the invulnerability completely and substitute it for something else.

 

You must be too comfortable playing your 1 shotting class that kill another player in 3~5 sec, agree, 4+4 sec of invulnerable is perma invulnerable in your own world. Over the other side that 2 players fought for couple mins non stop, you can find long invulnerable downtime there.

[Thani.8569]

> @Crossaber.8934 said:

> > @Inoki.6048 said:

> > To be very frank, not just Scourge, but Spellbreakers are yet to receive a very powerful nerf. I am very tired fighting noobs who solely rely on 1) stun 2) constant invulnerability.

> >

> > People complain about Deadeye (which doesn't have unblockables), but everyone is fine with perma invulnerable warriors. Since when is a class allowed to be unkillable? I say remove the invulnerability completely and substitute it for something else.

>

> You must be too comfortable playing your 1 shotting class that kill another player in 3~5 sec, agree, 4+4 sec of invulnerable is perma invulnerable in your own world. Over the other side that 2 players fought for couple mins non stop, you can find long invulnerable downtime there.

 

I completely stopped playing SB and Scourge for this reason.

It's easy and seems unfair and what's more it is not fun at all...

I can't understand why 50% of people play one of the two class.

Am I the only one who find almost exclusively Scourge/SB in sPvP and WvW ?

[Kiroshima.8497]

Scourge needs its shroud skills to be reworked to be more support and barrier oriented, and shroud strikes should not apply cripple and torment (1 stack of bleeding instead). This will remove its offensive oppression outside of Dhuumfire and Curses lines while helping Healing Power builds do the support they were supposed to (or apothecary or w/e).

 

Then...

F1, No longer applies torment nor cripple. Applies 1 stack of bleeding.

F2, convert up to 2 conditions on allies into barrier. I don't know why this isn't like this already.

F3, grant barrier. If the target already has barrier, heal as well.

F4, .5 seconds fear based on the number of allies with barrier in the circle.

F5, pulse barrier to allies near you and your shade.

 

Then for traits:

Sadistic Searing: Works on any shroud skill (F1-F5).

Unending Corruption: Corrupts 2 boons instead of 1, hitting enemies with Manifest Sand Shade reduces the cooldown of Manifest Sand Shade by 5 seconds. Use shades offensively instead of supporting allies. Comboes with sand savant to spam aoe corruption on enemies (hitting successfully turns the cooldown to ~5 seconds).

Desert Empowerment: Barriers you apply grant regen and protection. Become the guardian.

Sand Savant stays the same.

Demonic Lore: No longer burns on torment. Instead attacks (torment and cripple like now) in an aoe (300 radius) around allies whenever you grant them barrier (including yourself). Successfully positioning your shades to grant allies barrier allows for even more hits compared to before, and turns F5 into a a deadly torment pulsing zone. But you don't get Sand Savant with it so you have to either melee or carefully place your shades for max effectiveness.

Feed from Corruption: In addition to boon steal, gain a small amount of barrier whenever you corrupt boons.

 

Then power up core necro shroud skills to be the true ranged kit.

 

S1 Lifeblast: Explodes on impact, can hit targets multiple times if they are lined up properly. 1200 range. Works with Dhuumfire very well now for aoe burning.

S2 Darkpath: Now ground target, creates a road between you and target point pulses bleeding and chill. Press again to shadowstep to target point with a longer cooldown (20% longer). 1200 range. A line attack that also serves as mobility. A condi variant of CoR basically, but with mobility built in.

S3 Doom: Unblockable fear and and corrupt 2 boons around your target. Does some power damage now. 1200 range, 300 radius. Like Axe 3 but around your target instead, use to setup other attacks by removing defensive boons.

S4 Life Transfer: Increased power damage. 2 bleeding stacks for 3 seconds per hit. Go to melee cleaving attack.

S5 Tainted Shackles: New, uses the new CC type: Gravity (like the final boss of LW Season 4 Part 1). 1200 range, 300 radius, slowly pulls up to 5 targets to its center. Can be walked out of if you run away from the center (albeit slowly). Necromantic hands/energy grasp at enemies pulling them to the a death aura. Pulses torment (2 seconds), enemies that reach the center (80 radius) are stunned and take bonus power damage. Ranged controlling attack, forces enemies to run (or shadowstep/blink) in odd directions to avoid the gravity effect.

 

Now we have a ranged bombing build for Necro through Core Shroud (condi and power are both viable), as well as made Scourge into the Barrier Support it should be, with variants for offense or personal sustain through trait choices.

 

[Shazmataz.1423]

So much qq here about scourge but I die far more to spellbreaker bubble effects.

Scourge already had a "bug" correction which amounted in a significant nerf to damage, since then it is not nearly as powerful at all and scourge has significant line of sight issues with shades even with small variations in terrain levels. Scourge has good synergy in parties with firebrands in wvw but without party support it is pretty limited. 1v1 roaming and scourge is an easily focussed and killed especially at range. Spellbreaker bubble is massively op the way that it is being used in wvw at the moment and imo requires a nerf. In my wvw guild there is much talk about how the spellbreaker bubble needs a nerf...but there is no comment about scourge being an issue and I'm sure we are playing against many scourges. With so many bubbles stripping boons there is no counter to the condi....that is the issue that I think people are confusing with the scourge being op.

As for scourge in pve....it's like trying to make a kill by slapping mobs with a wet bus ticket.

 

[Thani.8569]

> @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> So much qq here about scourge but I die far more to spellbreaker bubble effects.

 

"Please Class A is balanced because Class B is more broken"

I see what you did there. But scourge still has a problem...

 

> @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> 1v1 roaming and scourge is an easily focussed and killed especially at range

 

The sentence should be:

1v1 roaming and scourge is only killable if you are at range

Or you are in front of new scourges that don't know what they are doing.

 

[intox.6347]

> @Kiroshima.8497 said:

> Scourge needs its shroud skills to be reworked to be more support and barrier oriented, and shroud strikes should not apply cripple and torment (1 stack of bleeding instead). This will remove its offensive oppression outside of Dhuumfire and Curses lines while helping Healing Power builds do the support they were supposed to (or apothecary or w/e).

 

U have good idea... but its never happen. Now is scourge only option to deal damage, core necro is weak, reaper nerfed to death, and anet dont know how to do it perfectly... if they try... for sure it will look only -50% dps nerf , +15% support.

 

[DeeSystm.1256]

10 chars or sometjing

[Junkpile.7439]

Not nerfed. Played it in PvE and still broken as kitten. Bring your scourge and you complete map metas alone.

[swellercross.3974]

IT is not just the scourge aoe you must avoid , add the firebrand aoe mix it together you will melt like butter then explode like popcorn .

[dzeRnumbrd.6129]

> @coro.3176 said:

> Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe?

 

Show us the combat log screenshots that show it is one scourge doing a pbaoe burst.

 

I don't believe that is purely pbaoe burst.

 

[Chorazin.4107]

> @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> And yes, I can down a scourge, barrier and all plus all buddies healing them in less than 7 seconds, by myself. It's that easy with ranged.

 

Who are these people playing support? You can seriously arrow a scourge to death in 7 seconds with him being baby sat by minstrel FB's and Tempests? This seems fallacious given said scourge is probably rocking around with perma protection, full dire/trailblazer and a bunch of aegis spammed from boonshare and FB's. And wtf are these support players doing over the course of 7 seconds?

 

As for the argument about FB, that is for a separate thread, I think it's in line for some adjustments but that is not what this thread is about.

 

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @Thani.8569 said:

> > @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> > So much qq here about scourge but I die far more to spellbreaker bubble effects.

>

> "Please Class A is balanced because Class B is more broken"

> I see what you did there. But scourge still has a problem...

>

> > @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> > 1v1 roaming and scourge is an easily focussed and killed especially at range

>

> The sentence should be:

> 1v1 roaming and scourge is only killable if you are at range

> Or you are in front of new scourges that don't know what they are doing.

>

 

Thani, stealthed thieves and mesmers can sneak up close and murder scourge. But pewpew rangers are death from afar.

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @Chorazin.4107 said:

> > @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> > And yes, I can down a scourge, barrier and all plus all buddies healing them in less than 7 seconds, by myself. It's that easy with ranged.

>

> Who are these people playing support? You can seriously arrow a scourge to death in 7 seconds with him being baby sat by minstrel FB's and Tempests? This seems fallacious given said scourge is probably rocking around with perma protection, full dire/trailblazer and a bunch of aegis spammed from boonshare and FB's. And kitten are these support players doing over the course of 7 seconds?

>

> As for the argument about FB, that is for a separate thread, I think it's in line for some adjustments but that is not what this thread is about.

>

 

Not sure how much babysitting is going on. Our guild doesn't seem to have many ele/tempests these days as anet has kinda ripped the guts outta them (or thats what I have heard, don't play it myself) and when the boons are nullified by the spellbreaker bubble scourge is dead fast along with nearly everyone else.

The biggest qq in teamspeak these days is about spellbreaker bubbles.

[Avengedeath.4671]

if they aren't going to nerf scourge, can anyone offer advice on how a reaper can 1v1 them?

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Avengedeath.4671 said:

> if they aren't going to nerf scourge, can anyone offer advice on how a reaper can 1v1 them?

 

Ranged weapon. I carry pistols on my thief for these guys. Staff of reaper, staff/scepter for ele, ranger (duh) etc. if you only have Melee weapons... good luck.

[Shazmataz.1423]

> @Avengedeath.4671 said:

> if they aren't going to nerf scourge, can anyone offer advice on how a reaper can 1v1 them?

 

Reaper was murdered by Anet so that scourge was the most viable option to play for necro, doesn't mean that scourge is op....I far prefer playing reaper to scourge. Reaper needs some work for sure but that is a separate issue.

[xDudisx.5914]

> @Shazmataz.1423 said:

> > @Chorazin.4107 said:

> > > @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> > > And yes, I can down a scourge, barrier and all plus all buddies healing them in less than 7 seconds, by myself. It's that easy with ranged.

> >

> > Who are these people playing support? You can seriously arrow a scourge to death in 7 seconds with him being baby sat by minstrel FB's and Tempests? This seems fallacious given said scourge is probably rocking around with perma protection, full dire/trailblazer and a bunch of aegis spammed from boonshare and FB's. And kitten are these support players doing over the course of 7 seconds?

> >

> > As for the argument about FB, that is for a separate thread, I think it's in line for some adjustments but that is not what this thread is about.

> >

>

> Not sure how much babysitting is going on. Our guild doesn't seem to have many ele/tempests these days as anet has kinda ripped the guts outta them (or thats what I have heard, don't play it myself) and when the boons are nullified by the spellbreaker bubble scourge is dead fast along with nearly everyone else.

> The biggest qq in teamspeak these days is about spellbreaker bubbles.

 

Spellbreaker bubble has to be cast on melee range. Scourge has 900-1200 range on weapon skills and the shade can also be cast on range.

[mulzi.8273]

> @Baldrick.8967 said:

> It won't be nerfed any time soon- as they don't balance around wvw at all. Maybe if a scourge solo'd a raid boss, then it would be nerfed within a week...

 

If a ranger could shoot an arrow that corrupted all boons they would h> @Avengedeath.4671 said:

> if they aren't going to nerf scourge, can anyone offer advice on how a reaper can 1v1 them?

 

What are you using for your utilities? When I see a scourge roaming, i swap in plague signet. A scourge will try to condi you from their limited range, than try to move in on you. Eat the range condi, and let them corrupt your boons, then plague sig them, NF then shroud, immediaetly #3 (for stability), DC and SS in your field. as a power reaper i can kill them, but not easily. I play full glass reaper, so my power burst can cheese one-shot them if i can get shroud to stay up long enough for a few hits from DC+SS in a field.

 

Most of the scourges will immediately fear you as you DC or close the distance. You want your stab up immediately to get that initial burst. This isnt a sustain/fun fight, you have to burst them hard and pray: once you use plague sig, you wont have time to use CD or anything else before you have tons of cover condis on you almost instantly. Another tip: stay in shroud once you enter it and let it deplete. You will not have time to wait out the cooldown on shroud to use it again. Let shroud get some ticks on the condi crap they do, it gives you a few more seconds to get hits on them. When out of shroud use axe from range. You have to time it around their barrier, but again, its not a strategic fight where you try to bait out their fear/barrier/etc, you have to burst and burst hard and pray. If they +1 you, just load to waypoint. It's beyond useless at that point.