Axe Rework Idea.

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

Something I put on the old forum that I feel I'd like to share on the new one as well. It's not a popular idea, but I made axe hybrid.

 

Auto Chain Skill 1:

1. Rending Claws

Swipe your axe, causing ghastly claws to rake your foe, applying Vulnerability.

 

2. Shredding Claws

Swing your axe, summoning ghastly claws to shred your target, applying Vulnerability.

 

3. Ravaging Claws

Swipe your axe back and forth, causing ghastly claws to strike your target twice, applying torment with each hit. Also apply vulnerability if they're below 50% HP.

 

Skill 2: Unchanged.

 

Skill 3: Unholy Feast

Slash your axe back and forth in front of you, summoning rending claws that strike twice in a cone in front of you. Enemies hit are crippled and tormented and have a boon corrupted into torment with each hit. Enemies below 50% up take double damage.

 

[Lahmia.2193]

Aoe around you > cone attacks.

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Lahmia.2193 said:

> Aoe around you > cone attacks.

 

You're not wrong, but the attack would ideally be strong enough to warrant being a cone. The double claw strike visuals would be cool in a cone too.

[vicious.5683]

Stopped reading after "hybrid".

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @vicious.5683 said:

> Stopped reading after "hybrid".

 

Expected most people would. I just like torment on the axe because I was wanting to be able to use axe over scepter in a scourge build with torch, since poison doesn't match well with it for me thematically.

[Lahmia.2193]

In true anet fashion, if they added something to necro axe they would have to take something away.

[Obtena.7952]

I think for me the problem is that we aren't lacking 'condition damage enhanced' methods to play, in any spec we want. So suggestions like adding conditions to weapons for whatever reason, don't make much sense to me at this point. There was a long debate about adding bleed to dagger auto a few months ago; I have the same basic question here as I did there: Why would I want a condition on a weapon that delivers primarily power damage? I can't DO anything with that weapon buff, except pretend to be excited when I get 2 extra stacks torment on a mob. Big deal!

 

Now, on the helpful side, I think there is room for expanding Axe 1 to a 2 step chain. Primarily because 1) I do think we stack too much vuln in a short time with Axe 1 and 2) added another step allows for some more interesting things to be done with the weapon, other than spamming vuln

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> I think for me the problem is that we aren't lacking 'condition damage enhanced' methods to play, in any spec we want. So suggestions like adding conditions to weapons for whatever reason, don't make much sense to me at this point. There was a long debate about adding bleed to dagger auto a few months ago; I have the same basic question here as I did there: Why would I want a condition on a weapon that delivers primarily power damage? I can't DO anything with that weapon buff, except pretend to be excited when I get 2 extra stacks torment on a mob. Big deal!

>

 

You might not necessarily want it, but regardless if it were present it would be extra damage and functionality, and for those that would want to utilize that, it would be a possibility. At the bare minimum it causes them to have something to cleanse or a condition for different mechanisms in the game to interact with that you can put out.

[Obtena.7952]

Let's be honest here (the same kind of honesty that was lacking in the bleed-dagger auto threads). You aren't going to do anything new or different with a single stack of torment thrown in axe somewhere. What functionality does this add to what build? Torment at range is something I can already do, and better than any axe can do it. What you are suggesting is simply a flavour buff. I can't think of a necro build that doesn't already give you the bare minimum of causing your foe to have something to cleanse or a condition for different mechanisms in the game to interact with that you can put out.

 

Extra Damage? Yes it does, but any idea to add damage gives you extra damage. Like another stack or two of torment presented a serious buff to damage? It's barely a damage buff to a pure condi build ...

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Let's be honest here (the same kind of honesty that was lacking in the bleed-dagger auto threads). You aren't going to do anything new or different with a single stack of torment thrown in axe somewhere. What functionality does this add to what build? Torment at range is something I can already do, and better than any axe can do it. What you are suggesting is simply a flavour buff. I can't think of a necro build that doesn't already give you the bare minimum of causing your foe to have something to cleanse or a condition for different mechanisms in the game to interact with that you can put out.

>

> Extra Damage? Yes it does, but any idea to add damage gives you extra damage. Like another stack or two of torment presented a serious buff to damage? It's barely a damage buff to a pure condi build ...

 

It's meant to allow for hybrid functionality and the ability to scale in a different build. You could possibly be maintaining 4 or 6 stacks of Torment depending on the condi duration - which I didn't state - and a constant stack of burn with Demonic Lore from a normally power based weapon which could be manageable as a condi build. With Unholy Feast you could get it to 8 or 10 for a period. Basically the damage potentially lost from the slightly reduced vulnerability output would be made up for with free condition damage, but that damage would also scale much better if you were taking a stat set like carrion for example. As a flavor change it would make the weapon work well too at least to me as a weapon that has Torment and Cripple to match with Scourge.The addition of an auto attack chain and the thematic change to Unholy Feast would make the weapon more interesting and satisfying to use as well I think.

 

 

[Justine.6351]

Axe is power,

Scepter is Condi.

 

I did read it all though. Ty for being concise as I never read the essays other people write.

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Justine.6351 said:

> Axe is power,

> Scepter is Condi.

>

> I did read it all though. Ty for being concise as I never read the essays other people write.

 

Let me dream of the no poison, torment and vulnerability based hybrid weapon with ghastly effects that I dream of for my Scourge. Basically Scepter seems like more of a disease and pestilence based weapon over anything demonic, ghastly, or spiteful like the Scourge is. I want thematic cohesion :(

[Obtena.7952]

> @Treetoptrickster.4205 said:

> > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > Let's be honest here (the same kind of honesty that was lacking in the bleed-dagger auto threads). You aren't going to do anything new or different with a single stack of torment thrown in axe somewhere. What functionality does this add to what build? Torment at range is something I can already do, and better than any axe can do it. What you are suggesting is simply a flavour buff. I can't think of a necro build that doesn't already give you the bare minimum of causing your foe to have something to cleanse or a condition for different mechanisms in the game to interact with that you can put out.

> >

> > Extra Damage? Yes it does, but any idea to add damage gives you extra damage. Like another stack or two of torment presented a serious buff to damage? It's barely a damage buff to a pure condi build ...

>

> It's meant to allow for hybrid functionality and the ability to scale in a different build. You could possibly be maintaining 4 or 6 stacks of Torment depending on the condi duration - which I didn't state - and a constant stack of burn with Demonic Lore from a normally power based weapon which could be manageable as a condi build. With Unholy Feast you could get it to 8 or 10 for a period. Basically the damage potentially lost from the slightly reduced vulnerability output would be made up for with free condition damage, but that damage would also scale much better if you were taking a stat set like carrion for example. As a flavor change it would make the weapon work well too at least to me as a weapon that has Torment and Cripple to match with Scourge.The addition of an auto attack chain and the thematic change to Unholy Feast would make the weapon more interesting and satisfying to use as well I think.

>

>

Again, adding one torment somewhere in Axe does not allow for hybrid functionality because an Axe with a torment trickle couldn't be made into a good hybrid damage build. You simply wouldn't have the conditions to justify spliting your traits/stats between direct and condition damage to make it work well, especially considering the significant similarity of parameters with the Scepter in the same build. Admittedly, Necros don't have a very good weapon that allows a hybrid damage split, not at least without supplementing specific traits and skills to it. Could we use that? Maybe, though I do know that a torment application Axe wouldn't be sufficient to do so as you described it. What is closer to a hybrid is the staff, and a more likely candidate.

 

For this to be a reasonable discussion, we need to see a build that benefits from the hybrid capability of a torment-trickling Axe. Then we have something to talk about.

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> > @Treetoptrickster.4205 said:

> > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > Let's be honest here (the same kind of honesty that was lacking in the bleed-dagger auto threads). You aren't going to do anything new or different with a single stack of torment thrown in axe somewhere. What functionality does this add to what build? Torment at range is something I can already do, and better than any axe can do it. What you are suggesting is simply a flavour buff. I can't think of a necro build that doesn't already give you the bare minimum of causing your foe to have something to cleanse or a condition for different mechanisms in the game to interact with that you can put out.

> > >

> > > Extra Damage? Yes it does, but any idea to add damage gives you extra damage. Like another stack or two of torment presented a serious buff to damage? It's barely a damage buff to a pure condi build ...

> >

> > It's meant to allow for hybrid functionality and the ability to scale in a different build. You could possibly be maintaining 4 or 6 stacks of Torment depending on the condi duration - which I didn't state - and a constant stack of burn with Demonic Lore from a normally power based weapon which could be manageable as a condi build. With Unholy Feast you could get it to 8 or 10 for a period. Basically the damage potentially lost from the slightly reduced vulnerability output would be made up for with free condition damage, but that damage would also scale much better if you were taking a stat set like carrion for example. As a flavor change it would make the weapon work well too at least to me as a weapon that has Torment and Cripple to match with Scourge.The addition of an auto attack chain and the thematic change to Unholy Feast would make the weapon more interesting and satisfying to use as well I think.

> >

> >

> Again, adding one torment somewhere in Axe does not allow for hybrid functionality because an Axe with a torment trickle couldn't be made into a good hybrid damage build. You simply wouldn't have the conditions to justify spliting your traits/stats between direct and condition damage to make it work well, especially considering the significant similarity of parameters with the Scepter in the same build. Admittedly, Necros don't have a very good weapon that allows a hybrid damage split, not at least without supplementing specific traits and skills to it. Could we use that? Maybe, though I do know that a torment application Axe wouldn't be sufficient to do so as you described it. What is closer to a hybrid is the staff, and a more likely candidate.

>

> For this to be a reasonable discussion, we need to see a build that benefits from the hybrid capability of a torment-trickling Axe. Then we have something to talk about.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJAnfnE9Ct0gV9CO9Cs9ilaBT/xWZ3sUth5w1CKBEAmBA-e

 

Something like that perhaps. Also it's not one torment, it's 2 at the end of each auto chain and probably for a long enough duration to stack up to 6 or 8 through auto spam, which is what you spend your time doing with the axe.

[Obtena.7952]

I can't see such a thing getting serious traction without a nerf elsewhere. But yes, Axe 1 with 2x torment ... that would certainly make it a more reasonable hybrid weapon for sure. I still have to ask what would compel Anet to consider this. GL

[Treetoptrickster.4205]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> I can't see such a thing getting serious traction without a nerf elsewhere. But yes, Axe 1 with 2x torment ... that would certainly make it a more reasonable hybrid weapon for sure. I still have to ask what would compel Anet to consider this. GL

 

Yeah I meant for the 2 torment on auto to be clear since the last chain is supposed to be 2 hits like the current AA, but both apply torment (and vulnerability if below 50%). By the way, hybrid axe torch is what I'm using on my scourge and it's got pretty good burst with a combo of Well of Suffering, into Torch 5, into Torch 4, into Axe 2

 

As for nerfs, the vulnerability application and power DPS would be down slightly to account for more of it's base dps being in condis anyways, and since it can be scaled with condi damage. Also, Unholy Feast loses some of its AOE capability due to being a cone, and just dealing more damage instead of striking more potential targets while below 50%.