riffle deadeye things i have seen and i think should be looked into

[Belishine.7493]

as the title say its about riffle deadeye. i have been testing this out in the raid are on the test golem. the crit damage that i can do is realy good but overall dps is sooo low compared to staff and dagger dagger. for the crit damage i can do anyware from 20k to 50k crits witch is very nice for pvp and would be good for pve if we could keep up our dps over all the dps we do in pve in the test is at max like18k. this makes this wepon and spec almost worthless in pve for any situation you are. if you do pvp/wvw then this is the one shot build you will like. i think the damage is good but we need to attack more often and titen up some of the riffle skills for smother gameplay and for more use in pve. this is just my thoughts on this and what i have tested

[Ellisande.5218]

Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

 

This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

>

> This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

 

Malice works good for single targets which is it's intended purpose. The rifle is not made for aoe damage. It's made to burn each target down at a time like a gunslinger/sniper.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

> >

> > This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

>

> Malice works good for single targets which is it's intended purpose. The rifle is not made for aoe damage. It's made to burn each target down at a time like a gunslinger/sniper.

 

Malace may work as intended, but I think Ellisande has a point here. The game doesn't really allow for sniper tactics (npc's will ignore you if you snipe from somewhere they can't reach), there is no pve content that benefits from a hit-and-run gaming style (seriously, when was the last time you actually used stealth in PvE combat? proc'ing revealed training doesn't count!), and you can't simulate FPS headshot damage without the other classes ranting.

[PopeUrban.2578]

They really should split rifle so it pierces multiple targets in pve only.

[Sobx.1758]

Rifle was probably meant to be used mainly in pvp setup, it's just crap for pve.

...but too bad, it's subpar -to say the least- in pvp as well.

[Ellisande.5218]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

> >

> > This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

>

> Malice works good for single targets which is it's intended purpose. The rifle is not made for aoe damage. It's made to burn each target down at a time like a gunslinger/sniper.

 

IT DOES NOT WORK WELL FOR SINGLE TARGETS. It is shit for single AND multiple targets. Because Malice stacks quickly drop off and are held by the target rather than the Thief as well as taking fing AGES to build up, you spend all your time trying to build them up and by the time you do build them up enough where they would be usable, you've run out of energy, or your target is either dead, invulnerable (by skill, by mechanics or by field effect), stealthed, untargetable, out of range, you yourself have to move to avoid fire on the ground, have CCed you, has summoned friends, has gotten your health too low, or any number of other problems that arise.

 

The concept of a sniper is a class that quickly PICKS OFFS targets from the safety of RANGE AND CONCEALMENT. Malice however is antithetical to the concept of quickly picking targets off because it takes ages to build up and in this game nearly every class and mob is so mobile that they are already eating your face long before you get two or three malice down let alone 5 or more. In a FPS, you use a sniper rifle when you want to see "BOOM, HEADSHOT! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Double KILL! BOOM, HEADHOST! Multi Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Mega Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Ultra Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Monster Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Ludicrous Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! HOLY S**T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you see why Malice is antithetical to the concept of a sniper now (as the player expects a sniper to perform in a game)?

 

Malice (and a lack of AoE) is why DE is complete and utter garbage in open world PvE because Malice (and Kneel) is completely incompatible with the flow and mechanics of GW2's open world PvE design which is designed around high mobility and lots of AoE/multimob situations. I daresay that Malice probably also makes DE garbage in PvP but I dislike PvP so I wouldn't actually know.

 

If I had to compare Malice to a real world fighting style I would compare Malice to being in a shield wall or trench warfare where the primary goal is outlasting the enemy's initial offense and coming back to your farm alive even if you yourself don't get many or any kills.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Deadeye is bad overall its weaker than daredevil sadly

[Zacchary.6183]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Deadeye is bad overall its weaker than daredevil sadly

 

How so?

[Sobx.1758]

That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

[Zacchary.6183]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

 

I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

[Deifact.3095]

I feel like Holosmith and Deadeye new mechanics are similar but one thing that makes the heat mechanic better than malice is that the heat mechanic increases effectiveness of holosmith skills used against anyone. Deadeye gets bonuses against the marked target only. Obviously Holosmith has some drawbacks in that they can overheat whereas Malice stacks just expire, but I would prefer Malice to work similarly. Say you activate your mark and start gaining malice stacks. You get a damage bonus to ALL enemies, but if you don't kill the marked enemy before you mark expires you get a stacking duration revealed debuff, say 1 x 2 second stack for every 10% remaining HP on the marked target.

 

This then means that the class is encouraged to focus on a single enemy and kill them (otherwise you get punished), but in PvE dungeons etc. you can focus more on AoE becuase the revealed debuff doesn't matter, or you don't need to feel penalised for engaging other enemies other than your marked enemy.

[Sobx.1758]

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > >

> > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> >

> > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

>

> All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

 

Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > >

> > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > >

> > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> >

> > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

>

> Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

 

Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

[babazhook.6805]

Deadeye is fine as a spec. It works very well with a number of weaponsets. The major issues it has is the RIFLE as a weapon compared to the STAFF where RIFLE underperforms in relative terms. (Comparisons to what other professions might have gained relative to thief in relative terms is another subject entirely. I am speaking only to DE versus DD)

 

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > >

> > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > >

> > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> >

> > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

>

> Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

 

This is just so wrong. Presenting the DATA and comparison of the various traits and Utilities across the board to one another is the most accurate rate of objectively arriving at a conclusion. All else is interjecting personal preference for a given style. The ONLY reason a person would want to dimiss the facts and the numbers as sources of data is because THEY are the ones that can not make their case. These types are choosing faith over Science.

 

Now I personally have no preference with the DE spec over DD as I play both. Just as with s/d specs going core as example prior to POF expansion after various changes to ACRO, I can get immediate feedback in game terms as to how one spec performs against another. Just as there all manner of reasons to prefer DD over DE with a given weaponset , there are just as many to prefer DE. It my opinion that those that fixated on the META and only played the approved META builds even as they proselytized on these same boards as to why everyone else should do the same , just do not have the patience to adapt to a different style of gameplay. Rather then accept that others can and have adapted, they dismiss it as "trash".

 

 

 

 

[Zacchary.6183]

Thank you babazhook!

[babazhook.6805]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @Ellisande.5218 said:

> > > Except that the test golem is a poor way to measure real world PvE damage when you have to constantly change targets.

> > >

> > > This makes Malice completely unworkable. I have no idea who the idiot was who thought that Malice was a good system in this game. Whoever it was doesn't know how the game is played.

> >

> > Malice works good for single targets which is it's intended purpose. The rifle is not made for aoe damage. It's made to burn each target down at a time like a gunslinger/sniper.

>

> IT DOES NOT WORK WELL FOR SINGLE TARGETS. It is kitten for single AND multiple targets. Because Malice stacks quickly drop off and are held by the target rather than the Thief as well as taking fing AGES to build up, you spend all your time trying to build them up and by the time you do build them up enough where they would be usable, you've run out of energy, or your target is either dead, invulnerable (by skill, by mechanics or by field effect), stealthed, untargetable, out of range, you yourself have to move to avoid fire on the ground, have CCed you, has summoned friends, has gotten your health too low, or any number of other problems that arise.

>

> The concept of a sniper is a class that quickly PICKS OFFS targets from the safety of RANGE AND CONCEALMENT. Malice however is antithetical to the concept of quickly picking targets off because it takes ages to build up and in this game nearly every class and mob is so mobile that they are already eating your face long before you get two or three malice down let alone 5 or more. In a FPS, you use a sniper rifle when you want to see "BOOM, HEADSHOT! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Double KILL! BOOM, HEADHOST! Multi Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Mega Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Ultra Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Monster Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! Ludicrous Kill! BOOM, HEADSHOT! HOLY S**T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Do you see why Malice is antithetical to the concept of a sniper now (as the player expects a sniper to perform in a game)?

>

> Malice (and a lack of AoE) is why DE is complete and utter garbage in open world PvE because Malice (and Kneel) is completely incompatible with the flow and mechanics of GW2's open world PvE design which is designed around high mobility and lots of AoE/multimob situations. I daresay that Malice probably also makes DE garbage in PvP but I dislike PvP so I wouldn't actually know.

>

> If I had to compare Malice to a real world fighting style I would compare Malice to being in a shield wall or trench warfare where the primary goal is outlasting the enemy's initial offense and coming back to your farm alive even if you yourself don't get many or any kills.

 

MALICE and KNEEL are both separate from the DE spec itself. MAlice works very well in a 1v1 when using p/p as example or s/d. You do not have to be using a rifle to take advantage of malice. When I play my Daredevil Spec , I am generally in d/p where it does very well. Just because I am playing d/p and not using staff it hardly means my spec is not a daredevil spec.

 

Malice works very well for single targets. What is given up when taking DE spec over DD is those extra dodges which are generally defensive measures. Any damage sacrifice there might be comes from individual traits that might favor a specific weaponset (PI as example) , amply made up for with that malice add , higher might access and higher access to other boons like quickness , regen , protection fury and the like all of which DE provides.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > > >

> > > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> > >

> > > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

> >

> > Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

>

> Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

 

No, it's not and you didn't do anything to prove it's a good spec.

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > > > >

> > > > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> > > >

> > > > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

> > >

> > > Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

> >

> > Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

>

> No, it's not and you didn't do anything to prove it's a good spec.

 

 

It is one of the few power specs to make the qtfy dps list, with just a couple of percent of staff daredevil.

 

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

 

That said, Deadeye needs some mechanical tweaks to traits, marking, and rifle before I think it'll be a strong alternative in each game mode, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it weak. It is under performing for PvP, but numerically, it hit the DPS mark where the devs have said they think meta builds should be in PvE. Basically Deadeye didn't get powercreeped while a lot of other things did.

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @Maugetarr.6823 said:

> > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> > > > >

> > > > > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

> > > >

> > > > Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

> > >

> > > Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

> >

> > No, it's not and you didn't do anything to prove it's a good spec.

>

>

> It is one of the few power specs to make the qtfy dps list, with just a couple of percent of staff daredevil.

>

> https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/

 

Ah yes, because qtfy dps list is what counts in determining if the class is good, give me a break :D

 

> That said, Deadeye needs some mechanical tweaks to traits, marking, and rifle before I think it'll be a strong alternative in each game mode, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it weak. It is under performing for PvP, but numerically, it hit the DPS mark where the devs have said they think meta builds should be in PvE. Basically Deadeye didn't get powercreeped while a lot of other things did.

 

Yes, it does need "some tweaks", because currently it's a bad spec.

 

[Zacchary.6183]

> @Sobx.1758 said:

> > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said:

> > > > > > > @Sobx.1758 said:

> > > > > > > That's a fact, don't start this crap again :D

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm asking people to prove it. If they can't, it isn't fact.

> > > > >

> > > > > It was proven over and over again, you're either trolling or... you probably know what already.

> > > >

> > > > All I am seeing is opinion. Literally the only people who have actually shown any data in this entire forum is Urejt and I.

> > >

> > > Showing raw data isn't what you need to judge the class, adding damage numbers or listing all traits as if you could use all of them and claiming that's why the class is strong is just plain wrong way to do it and serves only as an illusion of """evidence""" for usefullness of the spec. You like adding numbers, ok, but it didn't show or prove a thing.

> >

> > Showing raw data is the best way to judge anything. Opinion and preference means nothing.

>

> No, it's not and you didn't do anything to prove it's a good spec.

 

Never stated it was a good spec, but it is much better than people like to make it out to be. I proved that in another post. In fact, it is statistically more useful to a team than Daredevil or even the current meta.

 

BTW Belishine I already have a thread listing things that the spec could need. If you want to post any more of your ideas there, go ahead.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7515/the-complete-rifle-and-deadeye-fix-thread/p1

[Maugetarr.6823]

 

> Ah yes, because qtfy dps list is what counts in determining if the class is good, give me a break :D

 

Well, it objectively shows the damage is there

>

> Yes, it does need "some tweaks", because currently it's a bad spec.

 

I'd argue it's not bad, it's just clunky. The damage is there, but it needs some polishing of how the damage is delivered through some mechanical changes.

 

[Slyven.8637]

Personally I think the stealth while kneeling should be permanent. You should be able to move but like 25% speed increase base range to 1,500 kneeling you get +300

range and I'd add more distance after you are stelthed and have stopped moving and "set up" The easiest counter against a deadeye, is basically walking around a treestump

I was guarding a camp yesterday and was against a deadeye, "I was on my scourge" and even though I knew the opponent was talented countering him was way to easy because of the following reasons.

1. He had all of his abilities for stealth.

2. Limited mobility and range.

3. Since all of his abilities we're to try to extend his stealth time he didn't have a way to clean all the conditions I could dump on him.

4. Combat counter, simply walk 100 units away and stand behind a tree stump wait 5 seconds and walk to another tree stump. for the deadeye it was/is game over for him.

[Belishine.7493]

> @Slyven.8637 said:

> Personally I think the stealth while kneeling should be permanent. You should be able to move but like 25% speed increase base range to 1,500 kneeling you get +300

> range and I'd add more distance after you are stelthed and have stopped moving and "set up" The easiest counter against a deadeye, is basically walking around a treestump

> I was guarding a camp yesterday and was against a deadeye, "I was on my scourge" and even though I knew the opponent was talented countering him was way to easy because of the following reasons.

> 1. He had all of his abilities for stealth.

> 2. Limited mobility and range.

> 3. Since all of his abilities we're to try to extend his stealth time he didn't have a way to clean all the conditions I could dump on him.

> 4. Combat counter, simply walk 100 units away and stand behind a tree stump wait 5 seconds and walk to another tree stump. for the deadeye it was/is game over for him.

 

for the most part you gave a lot of resons why its hard to play the deadeye spec at all in any game mode but i will also say if they make it so we are not just locked down in one spot this could help out the deadeye a lot. also they need to fix some other things to make it more viable in pve and it will be ok for me

[MUDse.7623]

> @Slyven.8637 said:

>The easiest counter against a deadeye, is basically walking around a treestump

> I was guarding a camp yesterday and was against a deadeye, "I was on my scourge" and even though I knew the opponent was talented countering him was way to easy because of the following reasons.

> 1. He had all of his abilities for stealth.

> 2. Limited mobility and range.

> 3. Since all of his abilities we're to try to extend his stealth time he didn't have a way to clean all the conditions I could dump on him.

> 4. Combat counter, simply walk 100 units away and stand behind a tree stump wait 5 seconds and walk to another tree stump. for the deadeye it was/is game over for him.

 

strange as i dont have issues with conditions and only my shadow step backport does cleanse 3 as utility..but shadows embrace OP :D

and it was not a good deadeye as he doenst need to rely on DJ against a scourge but it sounds like he just tried to use DJ nothing else.

 

 

> @Slyven.8637 said:

> Personally I think the stealth while kneeling should be permanent.

 

you already can keep up stealth easily permanent now. if you want it like stealth while kneeling but you lose it when you stand up, then it would gimp the deadeye even more, as you would then just walk away so he needs to stop kneeling to keep up , then turn around and burst. right now i dont get visible when i cancel kneeling to chase some one.

 

 

 

> @Slyven.8637 said:

> You should be able to move but like 25% speed increase base range to 1,500 kneeling you get +300

> range and I'd add more distance after you are stelthed and have stopped moving and "set up"

 

the 'increase' is about the base range and not about a 25% speed increase i hope. but yes a very slow speed to reposition your self if u realize your not right at the edge of some higher ground and get obstructed, would be fine.

 

if range is increased we also need alot faster projectiles, especially for Cursed Bullet and Death Judgement as they are very slow already. increasing only the range wont help much against moving targets.