Why I keep playing GW2

[Healix.5819]

GW2's endgame has never been about grinding dungeons or raids like other MMOs. From the start, ArenaNet has always said that the endgame starts at level 1. GW2 isn't about rushing through the game, it's about the journey through it, much like a normal single player game. For some, that means there's no endgame. GW2's actual endgame has always been the continuation of that journey, the living world, which has always been ArenaNet's focus and season 1 being the closest example of what a real MMO looks like.

 

Fractals were essentially added for the people who couldn't understand how to play the game, so it was designed to be a self contained infinite grind for those wanting an endgame. Raiding was added for the same reason and for the crowd that hops between MMOs that are a really bad source advertising when they claim GW2 has nothing to do and no reason to play it, simply because there's no raids. Raiding was never really going to work here however, since most are also going to want vertical progression to feel superior, which ArenaNet tried to substitute with legendary armor and locked masteries.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

I play wvw but the balancing get worse and worse. No tactical fights, just punching your face on the keyboard and activate everything at same time.

So I play gw 2 until I find a second gw1 :anguished: Unfortunately there is nothing like that.

[Genesis.5169]

I play it because its free and i'm still salty at FF14 Cause changes to DRK, I was the person screaming the alarms that blackest night killed the class, and now when you look at the tank forums it seems i was right. Outside of that gw2 is not particularly rewarding and immersive i play it because the battle system is the closest i can get to tera with it being tera.

 

Tho if Dark Knights do go back to heavenwards dark knights i'd prolly return to ff14 in a heartbeat.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > > > You're surprised they only released 4 wings and i'm surprised they did even that much since big majority of playerbase don't care about raids. Imagine if all this time and resources went for redesigning and making more dungeons or maybe for open world events

> > >

> > > The game would be more awesome.

> >

> > Yet all we will ever get in the future will be more raids and fractals (aside from the occasional LW).

> >

> > Although, do people really not care about raids? I mean, the whole state of the game as it is now (meta 35k DPS scrub don't talk to me if you can do less) is because raids... I believe raids are way more infuential than you think.

> >

> > I mean, you can't even share a fun build that can clear T4 fractals without someone saying "yeah, but it's not raid meta, and your DPS is 29k and not 30k noob" and stuff like that.

>

> That doesn't necessarily have much to do with raids. Meta was there before raids and will always be there, raids or not. Raids just changed it. But it doesn't matter how it was changed. The fact is, that meta, in whatever state it is atm, is telling people how to play, otherwise they are noobs and won't be accepted into raids and fractals, some go even that far that they still require meta builds for dungeons, despite dungeons being absolute joke at this point.

> Yes, raids are influential, you are right and that's unfortunate, because they couldn't even balance the game before when they tried to balance PvW, WvW and PvP, now they threw in even raids. There were many balance patches and many more will come and still probably won't change anything on the large scale. because you can't balance all modes with this mindset. They should completely seperate PvP, WvW and PvW. Once PvE would be balanced, it could stay that way and they wouldn't have to bother with it every few weeks or months. When releasing new content, they would make sure everything aligns with how they balanced PvE. After that they could balance PvP and WvW and it would be a much easier because they wouldn't need to worry about ruining PvE. Game is out for more than 5 years, there was plenty of time to make this if they wanted, but didn't happen, so we'll be stuck in eternal balancing mess.

 

Yes, i know meta existed before, but no body ever paid this much attention to it. There were elitist dungeon groups focused on clearing them fast, so if you weren't meta and wasn't good enough, you'd get kicked, but in general, you could have gone with any group and if you knew the mechanics, you were welcome. Just don't die, do the dungeon properly and GG, the meta was only there for a select few focused on speed clears and stuff.

 

But, as you said, it was never as bad as it is now. And i agree, dungeons are a joke at this point, and neither raids nor fractals require meta builds to clear, it just takes either a different approach, or a bit longer, nothing serious. I mean, i never raided, but i'm pretty sure content that gives you a timeframe of a week to defeat it - but is done in its entirety by people in 2 hours - either has some pretty serious issues in it's core mechanics, or the balance is pretty messed up.

 

I'd argue the latter, but who knows at this point, and i'm not really qualified to talk about raids. But the fact that only a few classes are welcomed into raids is just reason enough to believe that something is wrong here. Maybe it's the community, i have no idea honestly, but the fact is, DPS meters and the "meta caraze" are totally unnecessary, at least in fractals and dungeons. That's what was great about Guild Wars 2. You could have any build you wanted, but if you knew the mechanics of an encounter, you could have cleared it, and groups welcomed you. Diversity was encouraged and welcomed. It was about skill. Now it's just about who can do most damage, meta or gtfo (even in unnecessary content), and the whole PvE aspect of it just became a dull parade of 3 builds copied from Qtfy. No one can even react to stuff that happens in fractals, they just copy the meta build and blindly memorize the "rotation". It's boring.

 

That's why i lately do only WvW, it's more dynamic. I know it has some problems too, but at least i get to see some builds there. And even the "op" builds can be dealt with one way or another so it's all good. I still do fractals for money and open PvE for fun so all in all it's ok. But it's just generally sad what the meta craze has done to the game.

[fastio.7642]

> Now it's just about who can do most damage, meta or gtfo (even in unnecessary content), and the whole PvE aspect of it just became a dull parade of 3 builds copied from Qtfy. No one can even react to stuff that happens in fractals, they just copy the meta build and blindly memorize the "rotation". It's boring.

>

I think you misunderstood what Qtfy and meta rotation is about. Any given player still has to practice. And any given player still has to improve. But if a player joins a pug run which expected that player do do DPS when that player joined them as a DPS, how can one expect them to be happy. The truth is, there is, almost exclusively, one good build. If there is a player who can do more DPS than me, I will ask for tips on how to improve. But majority of people do not understand that when person runs with pugs, they more often than not expect a good performance. No one likes to waste their time.

 

Bottom line on this is, you and me, we can fuck around as much as we want with our bullshit builds when we are with friends but to expect other people to have patience for you to "try something out", that is just selfish.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > > You're surprised they only released 4 wings and i'm surprised they did even that much since big majority of playerbase don't care about raids. Imagine if all this time and resources went for redesigning and making more dungeons or maybe for open world events

> >

> > The game would be more awesome.

>

> Yet all we will ever get in the future will be more raids and fractals (aside from the occasional LW).

>

> Although, do people really not care about raids? I mean, the whole state of the game as it is now (meta 35k DPS scrub don't talk to me if you can do less) is because raids... I believe raids are way more infuential than you think.

>

> I mean, you can't even share a fun build that can clear T4 fractals without someone saying "yeah, but it's not raid meta, and your DPS is 29k and not 30k noob" and stuff like that.

 

To be fair, I do here a bit of people talk about Raids or Fractals when it comes to DPS and balance and such. The thing is a bit.

Most of it though I've always heard it split into 3 groups:

1. PvE in general where people not liking what they did to their class in those metas/world bosses/etc (and as I said a bit of that is Fractals and Raids, but not all)

2. PvP how some people dying too fast against a certain class or a class saying their class can't kill anything or whichever.

3. WvW gets the same argument as PvP does.

 

Right now there are people who just like WvW/PvP which is fine, but for PvE there's a split between people who cares for Raids/Fractals and those that don't.

There's already people who like Raids/Fractals that complain at times when they get pugs in there that either don't know what they're doing or whichever because some of the items those specific pugs want are locked behing Raid/Fractal content but they rather not do it to begin with which just annoy the Raid/Fractal players.

 

But yeah... I do think like what @"Veprovina.4876" said, they could've added those same tough stuff in Raids right in the open world and set them up properly. They would always get players. I mean you already get full maps for huge events like Dragon's Stand and such... Dragon's Stand in a way is 3 Raids in one where the whole party must split up into 3 to get anything done, and split up even more at the very end until they have to burn through Mordremoth's HP.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @fastio.7642 said:

> > Now it's just about who can do most damage, meta or gtfo (even in unnecessary content), and the whole PvE aspect of it just became a dull parade of 3 builds copied from Qtfy. No one can even react to stuff that happens in fractals, they just copy the meta build and blindly memorize the "rotation". It's boring.

> >

> I think you misunderstood what Qtfy and meta rotation is about. Any given player still has to practice. And any given player still has to improve. But if a player joins a pug run which expected that player do do DPS when that player joined them as a DPS, how can one expect them to be happy. The truth is, there is, almost exclusively, one good build. If there is a player who can do more DPS than me, I will ask for tips on how to improve. But majority of people do not understand that when person runs with pugs, they more often than not expect a good performance. No one likes to waste their time.

>

> Bottom line on this is, you and me, we can kitten around as much as we want with our kitten builds when we are with friends but to expect other people to have patience for you to "try something out", that is just selfish.

 

Well i never said it doesn't take skill. I actually argued skill is more important than extremely optimized build. But i don't get the argument on pug runs and wasting people's time in raids. Raids are a week long content (please correct me if i'm wrong, not a raider). Are 5 minutes more or less on an encounter really going to kill you? And i'm not talking about really bad builds that take traits with no synergy whatsoever or something, those exist yes, but there's more than one good build besides the meta one posted on qtfy. The "other" build is maybe not as optimized as a meta build, but what does this matter if you can still clear a raid or a fractal without dying? Yet no one will give those a chance because the raid/fractal/whatever will take longer, or even worse, the argument is that the content won't be able to be cleared which is at best wrong and at worst prohobitive to anyone who is not conforming to the current standard. Which kinda makes the content that does do this kind of behaviour seem elitist and people don't want to do it, which in turn makes people miss out on what could have been fun for them, if a bit longer than usual. See where i'm going with this?

 

Also, "wasting time" argument in a game is kinda moot IMO, we're all wasting time playing Guild Wars 2, it's a game, it's a time waster by definition, we just like wasting ours in its world that's all. So i question if people who see "unoptimized" runs as wasting time actually enjoy the game. Some of the best fractal runs i had were with people who didn't know what they were doing, it was fun explaining the mechanics and getting in rythm with the group.

 

I'll give you a personal example, what happens to me most of the time. I run fractals, and i exlucively pug, i just make a party and wait for people to join, i never kick anyone. I play Mirage with Dire stats, focused on shattering and confusion upkeep with the shatters. Mirage can pump out clones like nobody's business lol. But that's not raid meta. Pistol phantasm bleed is raid meta for mirage, and people even dislike that because you have to wait 30 seconds for the 3rd phantasm to appear because of the cooldown. That's somehow a really big problem because it's not "ramping up properly" or whatever it says on the qtfy site.

 

What ends up happening is, i keep running around on a boss, rezing everyone because i know how bosses work, but a lot of people keep getting killed (not only downed), because they don't know that they should CC the disco charr when he does his AOE and that he needs to stand on the active plates or something, and that's not just this encounter, i see this in every boss and fractal. We do clear the thing but it takes a bit longer. And you know what? My build was never the problem. I didn't bring the meta build like everyone else into the fractals and i end up carrying people through them. All. The. Time. So you can see how i'm skeptical about meta builds being "the answer to everything" like most people think they are. What ends up happening is - people practice the rotation, and they memorize the steps and somehow that's not enough - shocker right? And the DPS isn't as advertised on qtfy if you keep dying because you didn't do something you were supposed to on a boss... And here i am, a lowly not meta scrub surviving encounters and rezing people up so they can finally do their rotation DPS thing...

 

@"Ayumi Spender.1082" Yes, now that you mention Dragon's stand, it kinda is a one giant mega raid when you think about it. So since that doesn't get failed much, gets tons of people, also needs knowledge of the mechanics to properly clear, why are raids themselves so prohibitive and uninviting to people? Most people i know don't even want to try raiding because of the horror stories they hear all over the place, is this whole raiding thing just blown way out of proportion and are the people themselves to blame for not putting up with 5 extra minutes of clearing a boss?

[titje.2745]

my only goal is nevermore :)

i am happy guildwars 2 isn’t like wow that you have to farm gear every big patch. i made a set and i keep it for long time. i only have to farm or make a new one for another build or class. it’s the best.

[Rauderi.8706]

Probably not an answer to satisfy you or your friend, but if you're expecting "endgame" to be nothing but the difficult endgame grinds, you'll be disappointed.

I still have a LOT to do just in PvE from all the collections that I'm working on. And that's not including PvP or WvW I only do under extreme duress. I'd probably do more achievement hunting if the game had proper systems for it.

Living Story chapters are good for a short burst of activity, but sadly not timely enough to be "content" for the locusts.

 

So yeah, there's plenty to do, if you make your own goals. Otherwise, GW2 is a game that still has plenty of game time in it, but it's also one that very readily permits you to put it down for a month or three and come back. That's actually pretty freakin' great for an MMO.

[bearshaman.3421]

Why each person plays the game is dependent on the person. No one can answer that for you.

 

As far as endgame content, personally I think that is what WvW is. They continue the personal story for people like me who like a good story. Fractals are dungeons that aren't tied to the main storyline. Raids are an add-on that shouldn't have happened and broke the "no trinity" aspect of the game that I think was one of it's most important upsides (and I like druid, but I recognize what it is as well). WvW not only is a way to experience mass combat, but gives boons to every player on a server based on how well they are doing. It's almost like there's a ton of people who are all fighting for your collective benefit...

[Sojourner.4621]

> @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > > You're surprised they only released 4 wings and i'm surprised they did even that much since big majority of playerbase don't care about raids. Imagine if all this time and resources went for redesigning and making more dungeons or maybe for open world events

> >

> > The game would be more awesome.

>

> Yet all we will ever get in the future will be more raids and fractals (aside from the occasional LW).

>

> Although, do people really not care about raids? I mean, the whole state of the game as it is now (meta 35k DPS scrub don't talk to me if you can do less) is because raids... I believe raids are way more infuential than you think.

>

> I mean, you can't even share a fun build that can clear T4 fractals without someone saying "yeah, but it's not raid meta, and your DPS is 29k and not 30k noob" and stuff like that.

 

A thing can be influential while only about 10% of a game's population participates in it. This has been shown with raids in other MMOs as well. The "most challenging content" determines what the most effective builds are and tends to dictate trends in building... but when MMOs release their statistics about what percentage of active players actually completes the Raid content... it is often a surprisingly small percentage.

[Goettel.4389]

Maybe you play it because you enjoy it? I know I do.

[kurfu.5623]

I keep playing because I love being in the world itself, and I have yet to run out of things to do.

[FanRetri.7219]

> @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > > You're surprised they only released 4 wings and i'm surprised they did even that much since big majority of playerbase don't care about raids. Imagine if all this time and resources went for redesigning and making more dungeons or maybe for open world events

> >

> > The game would be more awesome.

>

> Yet all we will ever get in the future will be more raids and fractals (aside from the occasional LW).

>

> Although, do people really not care about raids? I mean, the whole state of the game as it is now (meta 35k DPS scrub don't talk to me if you can do less) is because raids... I believe raids are way more infuential than you think.

>

> I mean, you can't even share a fun build that can clear T4 fractals without someone saying "yeah, but it's not raid meta, and your DPS is 29k and not 30k noob" and stuff like that.

 

No one is forcing you to do meta builds for T4 but at least have some basic knowledge of your class , the fractals and mechanics. It just it hurts some ppl that have 0 knowledge of the class they are playing ( had a warrior spellbreaker with mace/shield in my pug T4, rifle warrior, eles that just pressed 1-1-1 and nothing else,etc. And trust me no one is going to kick you from T4s for doing 1k dps less and the benchmark dps is meant for raids not fractals.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @FanRetri.7219 said:

> > @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @serialkicker.5274 said:

> > > > You're surprised they only released 4 wings and i'm surprised they did even that much since big majority of playerbase don't care about raids. Imagine if all this time and resources went for redesigning and making more dungeons or maybe for open world events

> > >

> > > The game would be more awesome.

> >

> > Yet all we will ever get in the future will be more raids and fractals (aside from the occasional LW).

> >

> > Although, do people really not care about raids? I mean, the whole state of the game as it is now (meta 35k DPS scrub don't talk to me if you can do less) is because raids... I believe raids are way more infuential than you think.

> >

> > I mean, you can't even share a fun build that can clear T4 fractals without someone saying "yeah, but it's not raid meta, and your DPS is 29k and not 30k noob" and stuff like that.

>

> No one is forcing you to do meta builds for T4 but at least have some basic knowledge of your class , the fractals and mechanics. It just it hurts some ppl that have 0 knowledge of the class they are playing ( had a warrior spellbreaker with mace/shield in my pug T4, rifle warrior, eles that just pressed 1-1-1 and nothing else,etc. And trust me no one is going to kick you from T4s for doing 1k dps less and the benchmark dps is meant for raids not fractals.

 

Oh, there are people who care really much about dps in fractals too, and i've seen people kick others for not doing enough dps. It's not often, but it has happened. But i agree with you, DPS doesn't mean anything if you can't deal with the dungeon mechanics and have no knowledge of what to do. And i also saw a lot of crap builds in fractals. It doesn't bother me when someone tries something new, what bothers me is when they like you said, have no idea how a boss encounter works then die while spamming 1 all the time. And i'm just rezing them thinking, how did you get this far without at least some basic knowledge... You know?

 

But it's not about people kicking you or something like it happens in raids, it's more about other people not taking chances because they're afraid (and sometimes rightfully so) that they won't be able to get parties if they try new things.

 

It's not all doom and gloom, but it just means that people care about raids or at least raid meta quite a lot.

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

I think I keep playing because everything is so cheap in the store and there is no abuse whatsoever... :p