Gudy.3607 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @goldencenser.7046 said: > Guild wars loot box I see is no different then a pack of sports cards, Pokémon, or any of those cards hidden behind a foil wrapper you can’t see through and are $3+ dollars, just hoping you get a good card or a player you want or need to complete your set and kids get to buy them too. So according some of you people that is gambleing and needs a 18+ to purchase or get lottery license. Indeed, and I for one am fully on board with that, for precisely the reason that Belgium seems to dislike those loot boxes: You do not know what the range of items is that you can get, and you don't know their drop chances. Which means you have no way to do do a proper cost-benefit evaluation and you run smack into the highly habit-forming "random, unpredictable win" situation that is the reason why gambling is age restricted in most civilized places. If - and that's a big if - any future law addresses exactly these complaints, all ANET has to do is probably to add actual numerical drop chances to their Common/Uncommon/Rare/Super Rare categories in the BL chest overview window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @ThomasC.1056 said: > [Here's the source](https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/Publications/Vie-pratique/Fiches-pratiques/Loterie). _French site, baguette speakers only._ > > Obviously, loot boxes met the 4 criterias : public = gamers, gain = whatever is in it, random outcome, and fee asked (gems, eventhough they can be "no real money", in GW2 case). I would argue that the 2nd criteria, gain, isnt met. Because the ToS clearly states that your whole game account and everything in it (apart from gems paid for with real money in some countries) is still owned by Anet, so you dont gain anything except temporary access to a service. And by agreeing to the ToS, you acknowledged Anet's reserved right to limit your access to that service for any reason they deem fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I imagine I walk into a store with the intention of buying a bunch of oranges, but I can just buy citrus fruits in general and could wind up with everything but oranges. A ridiculous concept that mindbafflingly works on a large potion of humanity as it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar.8491 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @costepj.5120 said: > Yay for Brexit! We won't have to put up with this Nanny State stuff for much longer. Lolol! Sure, you and your children can spend all your money on unregulated gambling. We don't care. Haha... That brexit is really working wonders for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar.8491 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > I'm happy this stuff is going to be revied and hopefully regualted. Gaming became gambling in last 2 decades. It was a slow process to make people feel it's okay to pay money and not get things they wanted. Games don't need to use malicious practices, like recent gw2 mount boxes, to earn money. Those companies who are going to adapt and treat their customers fair will stay on market. Rest of them may bankrupt. > > > > The worst part about all this ANet stuff is that many players would happily through money at ANet for non RNG gemstore skins. Even if you convert gold to gems to buy it someone payed money for those gems. > > We'll see how happy the players are when the prices rise. Which they will. Very happy. Lootbox gambling is an unfixed amount of money added to your purchase. An increase in price is a fixed one. You can decide whether you want the product or not without being lured in with false promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamazuki.6073 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Gudy.3607 said: > > @goldencenser.7046 said: > > Guild wars loot box I see is no different then a pack of sports cards, Pokémon, or any of those cards hidden behind a foil wrapper you can’t see through and are $3+ dollars, just hoping you get a good card or a player you want or need to complete your set and kids get to buy them too. So according some of you people that is gambleing and needs a 18+ to purchase or get lottery license. > > Indeed, and I for one am fully on board with that, for precisely the reason that Belgium seems to dislike those loot boxes: You do not know what the range of items is that you can get, and you don't know their drop chances. Which means you have no way to do do a proper cost-benefit evaluation and you run smack into the highly habit-forming "random, unpredictable win" situation that is the reason why gambling is age restricted in most civilized places. > > If - and that's a big if - any future law addresses exactly these complaints, all ANET has to do is probably to add actual numerical drop chances to their Common/Uncommon/Rare/Super Rare categories in the BL chest overview window. The mount boxes show you everything in it, in addition to no duplicates. Due to the nature of no duplicates there is a hard cap on how unlucky you can possibly be. Gambling has no hard cap, you can lose infinitely, and the loot boxes in question follow these rules. With standard loot boxes you can lose 1,000 times and end up spending thousands of dollars, the mount caps at a little over 100$. There's also the fact that the main concern regarding EA's system is the pay to win element. Which is also why mobile games are referenced, these games are all designed in ways that FORCE you to spend the 1$ here the 1$ there. Mount skins provide zero advantages. It seems people enjoy ignoring context to push their narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmskCamill.6412 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Tomahawk.7361 said: > I'm slightly relieved Anet stated they will not offer RNG sales like that in the future (talk being cheap however, but I'll take them at their word for now). Except they never said that. When you filter out the water from [MO's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license/p1 "MO's post"), 70% of it is about how good RNG ~~lootboxes~~ mount adoption licenses are and how much benefits they bring to the players (who are, apparently, ungrateful and can't understand what's good for them). 30% of it says that they chose the wrong time to release it and they won't use it, quote, "for our **next planned** mount skin releases". Mike never said "we failed you". He never said "RNG lootboxes is a bad idea". He never said "we won't do it in the future". And why wouldn't they, they have BLC with exclusive RNG rewards that you can't get anywhere else. My hope is with Belgium and Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasC.1056 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Wanze.8410 said: > > @ThomasC.1056 said: > > [Here's the source](https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/Publications/Vie-pratique/Fiches-pratiques/Loterie). _French site, baguette speakers only._ > > > > Obviously, loot boxes met the 4 criterias : public = gamers, gain = whatever is in it, random outcome, and fee asked (gems, eventhough they can be "no real money", in GW2 case). > > I would argue that the 2nd criteria, gain, isnt met. > > Because the ToS clearly states that your whole game account and everything in it (apart from gems paid for with real money in some countries) is still owned by Anet, so you dont gain anything except temporary access to a service. And by agreeing to the ToS, you acknowledged Anet's reserved right to limit your access to that service for any reason they deem fit. In France, part of laws are labeled "Of public order", which means they override whatever would be written in a contract that contradicts them. There're also laws that prevent a contract to involve nonsense or unfair terms, like "By agreeing this ToS, you allow Lucifer Inc. to claim your soul, your partner's, your children's and your cat's and dog's." Even if you sign it, a judge can state that this clause was illegal, and prevent Lucifer Inc. to claim your cat's soul. In ANet's case, claiming a constant ownership and a right to limit my access for unexplicit reasons (unexplicit as in "Not explicitly written in the contract") may be considered such an unfair term, and be declared illegal and nullified. All of this to say : agreeing with ToS doesn't mean everything's in it is legal and can be opposed to you. I saw some news years ago that a lot of ToS from big firms (like OS developpers) had huge parts of illegal things, but as France doesn't really have a class action mechanic, it'd require each and every individual to sue the big firm to have it removed. Then, even if I'm enough of a scholar to read the texts, I'm not enough of a lawyer to really embrace all that they involve. Moreover, it raises territorial questions, because some other countries may see things some other way (just like China, in which the RNG rates are public). So it's pure speculation. It's always interesting to think things thoroughly, but in my opinion, it may not really be worth the grey matter for only mount skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JVJD.4912 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 You mean i can buy what i want instead of buying a random chance of what i want o_0 Hurray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Danikat.8537 said: > For a start gambling isn't illegal in Europe, even online gambling for real money, it's just restricted. You have to be over 18 and I think the companies running it have to have a licence. So the end result might just be that games like GW2 go from a 12+ rating to an 18+, which would reduce the pool of potential new players but otherwise wouldn't make any difference. (Unlike in the USA and some other countries 18 rated games are widely available, it's pretty much unheard of for a retailer to refuse to stock them.) > > The problem might be getting the licence, I really don't know what that involves and maybe Anet will decide it's not worth it. But then would they remove black lion chests entirely, or just make it so you can't buy them if you're in Europe (which might involve selling them outside the game)? Depending on what happens it may be more complicated. Yes, in Europe the 18+ tag won't be _that_ much of a problem (though it would likely still diminish sales). Branding the game as gambling however would be far more problematic. As you noticed, large-scale gambling in general requires state-issued licensing, which alone might cause problems. Greater problem would result however from the fact, that in at least some of the EU countries, it would not be only Anet that would need such licenses, but also _every retailer shop selling the game_ as well. And that is something that just won't happen. Potential advertising would meet some restrictions as well. As for selling directly, at least my country is currently running a highly restrictive law in that regard. ISPs are required to block every internet site connected to non-licensed gambling (according to a government-issued list of known such sites). Operating a gambling site/service without license is subject to some really costly penalties, but on top of that even _participating_ in it is a crime. Participating in an non-licensed gambling run by a foreign entity is additionally penalized. Generally, gambling is Serious Business here. If lootboxes were to be classified as this, then it would be goodbye lootboxes or goodbye GW2 in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Ragnarox.9601 said: > Imagine that you go into shop and want to buy a new processor, so you buy 5 boxes and in that box might be new Intel processor that you want, and you open those boxes and you get 1 stuffed plastic animal. > > Imagine that you go to another shop buying food, so you get 10 boxes of food and when you open them you get some random stuff like electric bulb, empty cd, spoon,... > > Its still gambling, you might get good stuff and you might end up having nothing. > > Praise for Belgium. Bad analogy is just bad.. why would you go into a shop to buy boxes of mystery food.. you wouldn't Why would you go into a PC shop and buy a mystery processor... that's right, you wouldn't Your trying to compare apples and soap imo. Do you know of any shops that you can walk in and use a worthless digital currency in order to purchase that food or processor... hmm I think not. The closest analogy to the GW2 loot boss system is football cards, pokemon etc.. they provide the same rng hook but cost actual money for the chance of getting the super shiny. The one thing that they do provide that GW2 doesn't is the ability to sell or trade.. maybe this could help appease the situation in game, but I can imagine the prices being pretty unattractive for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @goldencenser.7046 said: > Guild wars loot box I see is no different then a pack of sports cards, Pokémon, or any of those cards hidden behind a foil wrapper you can’t see through and are $3+ dollars, just hoping you get a good card or a player you want or need to complete your set and kids get to buy them too. So according some of you people that is gambleing and needs a 18+ to purchase or get lottery license. Lol that sounds kitten, you don’t want to take a chance then don’t, no one is forcing you to purchase these. It is similar, and yeah, I'm opposed to those game too. I think they are pretty predatory in nature. Still, there are some differences. 1. with those games, those *are* the game/product. If that's not a thing you want, then you just don't participate at all. The Mount Licenses are *inside* GW2, so it's fully possibly to *like* GW2 but hate this one element of the game, and I think it's fair to be critical of it on those grounds. 2. With CCGs and that sort of thing, there is at least an aftermarket. Players who do not want to engage in RNG can buy the pieces they want directly from other players. If all you want is a Charizard or whatever, you can buy one directly, and yeah, it might be a bit pricey, but it'll be less than buying an entire case (and still maybe not getting one). Ultimately though, if those games also had to shift business models, I wouldn't shed a single tear. Either way, keep those practices out of other games. > @Tomahawk.7361 said: > 'Gambling: A conscious, deliberate effort to stake valuables, usually but not always currency, on how some event happens to turn out' > > 'Problem gambling (aka compulsive gambling): A progressive disorder characterized by a continuous or periodic loss of control over gambling; a preoccupation with gambling and with obtaining money with which to gamble; irrational thinking; and a continuation of the behavior despite adverse consequences' > > Found those definitions from a reliable peer-evaluated study. As much as I **hate** paid RNG loot boxes there are some loopholes that might harm the opportunity to end them. Sometimes you can transfer earnable in-game currency to get these boxes (now depending how hard that becomes might make a difference as I mention later). The other being that something like the mounts was a closed system. You could not continue to spend money on RNG boxes like that as there is a finite amount (30 skins for the mounts I think?), leaving you little time to form a 'gambling addiction,' unless of course you start including the black lion chests. To point 1. so what? Even if you're converting gold to gems, ANet has established that gems have real economic value, and therefore gold has real economic value. At the current exchange rate one Tyrian gold is worth seven US cents, and that is an officially supported value according to the company. If you spend 400 gems, you are spending $5 USD. Of you spend 400 gems bought using gold, it would cost 109.56 gold, or $7.67. That is an officially supported exchange rate. In game currency has official real world value, even if you are not legally allowed to *return* that value back into USD. As to point 2. for some people, $120 is still way too much, especially if you only intended to spend $5, $10, etc. Personally, I am not a problem gambler, and have not participated in this system, but if I could buy the skins individually, I would only want maybe 6-8 of them, tops. That would add up to $30-40. If the RNG system meant that I didn't get those skins that I wanted within $40 spent (and the odds are *massively* stacked against that happening), and then I continued spending anyway, then that would be problematic gambling, even if it did have a finite conclusion. What if I were in a situation where I were living paycheck to paycheck, and spending $40 was something I could handle, but spending $100 would leave me $20 short on food or rent for the week. If I were prone to problem gambling, I might not be able to stop myself after 8 pulls, spend that money I needed, and have to make hard life choices. Obviously there is an element of personal responsibility at play there, but still, Anet should not be encouraging such inherently corrupt offerings. > @Yamazuki.6073 said: > Gambling has no hard cap, you can lose infinitely, and the loot boxes in question follow these rules. Gambling *can* have no hard cap, but a lack of a hard cap does not prevent something being gambling. >There's also the fact that the main concern regarding EA's system is the pay to win element. Which is also why mobile games are referenced, these games are all designed in ways that FORCE you to spend the 1$ here the 1$ there. That's a subjective distinction. Objectively there's no difference between cosmetics and pay to win, it all just comes down to whether it matters *to you* whether your character performs better or looks better doing it. Remember that this entire Battlefront situation kicked off with players upset that Darth Vader took too long to grind out without loot boxes. Darth Vader was intended to be no more powerful than the free Darth Maul, therefore, what people were upset about was a *cosmetic* distinction. *That* is what got the most downvotes in Reddit history, not "pay to win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar.8491 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Tomahawk.7361 said: > 'Gambling: A conscious, deliberate effort to stake valuables, usually but not always currency, on how some event happens to turn out' > > 'Problem gambling (aka compulsive gambling): A progressive disorder characterized by a continuous or periodic loss of control over gambling; a preoccupation with gambling and with obtaining money with which to gamble; irrational thinking; and a continuation of the behavior despite adverse consequences' > > Found those definitions from a reliable peer-evaluated study. As much as I **hate** paid RNG loot boxes there are some loopholes that might harm the opportunity to end them. Sometimes you can transfer earnable in-game currency to get these boxes (now depending how hard that becomes might make a difference as I mention later). The other being that something like the mounts was a closed system. You could not continue to spend money on RNG boxes like that as there is a finite amount (30 skins for the mounts I think?), leaving you little time to form a 'gambling addiction,' unless of course you start including the black lion chests. The real grey area for me is that fine-studied insidious line of the amount of time someone would want to put into earning something versus the amount of time being long enough to sway people to spend money for convenience. Now I think that falls in the realm of triggering spending addictions, which is just as atrocious imo, but that cannot be attacked from the gambling perspective. > > I'm slightly relieved Anet stated they will not offer RNG sales like that in the future (talk being cheap however, but I'll take them at their word for now). I won't be spending real money for their RNG mounts, but have gotten 2 via gold earning. As politicians comb through these things, I think the alternative currencies and how fairly they are implemented will need to be discussed. Remind me, what happens in this game when you buy gems with gold. I'm pretty sure i get an e-mail with a transaction. What people don't get is that having lootboxes is fine aslong as they aren't purchasable with real life money. And no, a fake currency you can buy with money is not a workaround. If its cosmetics or not, it doesn't matter. If you have the option of getting all the unlocks like the mount licenses in this game, it doesn't matter. If you are paying real life money for an unpredictable rewards, it's gambling and as such must be subject to it's regulation. Especially if you aren't getting a physical good from the purchase. And for the record, yes, the chests are more gambling than the licenses in the case of GW2. But they are both gambling. You just have an option to circumvent the gambling if you pay enough for the licenses. But nothing is stopping anet from adding even more skins as time goes on. for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I think a lot of people's arguments are around the dictionary definition of gambling. Bear in mind that the legal definition of gambling doesn't have to match any given dictionary definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Moon.6531 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I can't believe there are people actually defending loot boxes... Or maybe they are just trying to defend ANet and don't care for what reason? When other game companies are putting the boot in and using the fact that their games don't have loot boxes in them as a selling point should give an idea of what loot boxes actually are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @"Grey Moon.6531" said: > I can't believe there are people actually defending loot boxes... Or maybe they are just trying to defend ANet and don't care for what reason? > When other game companies are putting the boot in and using the fact that their games don't have loot boxes in them as a selling point should give an idea of what loot boxes actually are! If it's something which gives advantages i am up to this. It it's something fashion related ( not Qol related ) i see no problem. And we are talking about a mmo with * core f2p game * no subscription * 30$ expansion pack every 2 years * possibility to convert game currency into shop currency * Qol items not on lootboxes. Players should probably check other mmos with shop and compare them to gw2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Host Tar.8436 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I think ANet and many others will eventually have to change their practices/philosophy. Or change them sooner to avoid being noticed. The EU is looking into it & Belgium has pretty much decided that it's gambling if there are no assurance of getting what you pay for & having to repeatedly purchase items to get the better ones. Some have dismissed it, using examples like football stickers, which isn't considered gambling; it is an interesting comparison, but to my mind they are different. The US has told EA off for it's practices. It will be a slow, long process, but I think the end of it will be regulation. The EU loves! regulation, specially if it has socially moral roots & throw in a few statistics about it effecting children most, then they will pass any such rules in a heartbeat. The UK is different in its approach and may not follow suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Shirlias.8104 said: >If it's something which gives advantages i am up to this. >It it's something fashion related ( not Qol related ) i see no problem. And you're entitled to hold that opinion, just understand that other people feel differently, and are equally entitled to hold that opinion. >Players should probably check other mmos with shop and compare them to gw2. GW2 gets a lot right, but that doesn't mean they cant be called out when they get it wrong. I don't mind ANet coming up with new ways to fund their game, I just object to it being based on gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven.1524 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I'm curious... Why don't they attack mobile games first? Is it because they are impossible to control? I mean... Sure I hate loot boxes but, having my kid exposed to any psychological attack with any mobile game is the most immediate issue for me, PC and console games are more manageable since you can also play together with them and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Raven.1524 said: > I'm curious... Why don't they attack mobile games first? Is it because they are impossible to control? > I mean... Sure I hate loot boxes but, having my kid exposed to any psychological attack with any mobile game is the most immediate issue for me, PC and console games are more manageable since you can also play together with them and stuff. They can do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Kinder Surprise soon also to be banned? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Surprise They have been around for more than 40 years and noone cared. Maybe it is time, especially as they are aimed at children. Go for it, Belgium! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > > @Shirlias.8104 said: > >If it's something which gives advantages i am up to this. > >It it's something fashion related ( not Qol related ) i see no problem. > > And you're entitled to hold that opinion, just understand that other people feel differently, and are equally entitled to hold that opinion. > > >Players should probably check other mmos with shop and compare them to gw2. > > GW2 gets a lot right, but that doesn't mean they cant be called out when they get it wrong. I don't mind ANet coming up with new ways to fund their game, I just object to it being based on gambling. I do understand their/your point. As many said, the fact that players are able to convert Golds into Gems is mostly because of those who buy gems with cash, and i am pretty sure that most of the income were because BLC, with its tickets. I doubt that without RNG ANET could have been able to make the same profit ( many would have been able to convert every month X into gems and buy without cash ). - - - Talking about RNG i preferd the old way where players were able to chose between chests and TP. But then ANET made 2 mystakes: 1. Skins return as uncommon drop instead maybe 3/5 ticket per skin for a while 2. Account bound skins from BLC The market did collapse, and many found themselves ( i am no siding with em, since we are talking about skins and not QoL items ) buying BLC in order to get, maybe the drop they wanted. Currently imho, Mount Licence is way better than BLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Shirlias.8104 said: > > @"Grey Moon.6531" said: > > I can't believe there are people actually defending loot boxes... Or maybe they are just trying to defend ANet and don't care for what reason? > > When other game companies are putting the boot in and using the fact that their games don't have loot boxes in them as a selling point should give an idea of what loot boxes actually are! > > If it's something which gives advantages i am up to this. > It it's something fashion related ( not Qol related ) i see no problem. > > And we are talking about a mmo with > > * core f2p game > * no subscription > * 30$ expansion pack every 2 years > * possibility to convert game currency into shop currency > * Qol items not on lootboxes. > > Players should probably check other mmos with shop and compare them to gw2. Anet can earn money without gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @Shirlias.8104 said: > > > @"Grey Moon.6531" said: > > > I can't believe there are people actually defending loot boxes... Or maybe they are just trying to defend ANet and don't care for what reason? > > > When other game companies are putting the boot in and using the fact that their games don't have loot boxes in them as a selling point should give an idea of what loot boxes actually are! > > > > If it's something which gives advantages i am up to this. > > It it's something fashion related ( not Qol related ) i see no problem. > > > > And we are talking about a mmo with > > > > * core f2p game > > * no subscription > > * 30$ expansion pack every 2 years > > * possibility to convert game currency into shop currency > > * Qol items not on lootboxes. > > > > Players should probably check other mmos with shop and compare them to gw2. > > Anet can earn money without gambling. As said in the post above yours, ANET wouldn't have made the same amount. So it's more like > ANET could have been not greedy and still make some money without gambling. But since it is part of NCSOFT group, maybe it's not their fault at all ( and even so i am glad that it does not affect the gameplay at all ). CD Projekt Red decided to say no to Microtransactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Shikigami.4013 said: > Kinder Surprise soon also to be banned? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_Surprise > > They have been around for more than 40 years and noone cared. Maybe it is time, especially as they are aimed at children. Go for it, Belgium! :) Again IMO its a matter of scale. For kinder eggs you get chocolate and a tiny plastic toy. Every time. Granted, the toy is random but its still a toy. The RNG nature is a very small value here of the proposition you make to the child (ie want some egg looking candy?). This is why I never really cared about the mount skins because tbh, you know you are getting a mount skin. Its not like you open the box and maybe get a mount skin, a single ecto, a grey spike or a sellable HoT legendary. The gamble here is for roughly equal value, in a sense. Imagine if GW2 had a loot box that gave you a guranteed exotic (of a specific type) + a random blue, green or yellow piece. Thats a kinder egg. And I honestly dont think many would care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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