Belgium says loot boxes are gambling, wants them banned in Europe

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Leamas.5803 said:

> I know I'm in a minority here, but I consider pretty much all micro-transaction types of things a cancer in any game. At best, it's an "easy" button, ant worst it really does enable gambling.

 

I think that so long as it's not gambling, microtransactions can be ok. Developers need to be careful with them, there is a temptation for abuse, but they can be ok. Done right, they are purely optional. The base game that you get is "good enough," it's 100% worth what you pay for it. Microtransactions on top of that? That's side dishes, that's ala carte. It'd be nice if they could provide infinite content for a single purchase, but that's a very unreasonable expectation. There is a finite amount of content they can justify for a single price. That means that they can either jack up the initial price, charge $150+ for the base game, OR they can only make the game so big and never expand it, OR they can break up the purchase so that people can choose for themselves which additional elements *they* care about, and add those bits onto their bill.

 

I'm fine with that. I think it's better than "one size fits all." It just requires that they be fair about it. It requires that they not exploit gambling to make the results of a purchase uncertain. It requires that they do not deliberately handicap the core experience to make the microtransactions "necessary." Battlefront clearly abused this trust. Some believe other games like GW2 and Shadow of War also did. That doesn't mean that they can't change course and correct these mistakes.

[Chamelion.9536]

> @CaelestiaEmpyrea.2617 said:

> Another reason ANet may be in the clear is that EVERYTHING in the gem shop can be obtained without any real-world money transactions. Buying gems with money is 100% optional. You can get gems by trading for gold. Buying gems with money can be seen as just a shortcut rather than a requirement. In most other loot-box situations, getting the currency to buy loot boxes in-game is either impossible or extremely limited.

 

Not only that, but as far as I can tell, being casual; is that there is absolutely ZERO "Pay-to-win" items in the gem store, ever. You can play GW2 virtually for free, minus buying the core and 2 expansions. GW2's Gem Store is for those who want short cuts, extras, QoL and new looks.

 

So, Anet should be just fine.

 

C

[Nikal.4921]

Back when RIFT was a sub game, we could get very cool stuff just playing the game, as random drops, participating in seasonal events,. etc. After they went f2p, they began offloading what previously were (or would have been) random drops and event rewards, to their store. They began charging outrageous amounts of currency for what seasonal items they left available on the vendors, so that it become much more expedient (or even possible) to just buy them in the store. Then I read they started putting them in RNG boxes you had to buy from the store. How could they possibly think this would make a game more fun or enticing?

 

There is danger in these stores, not just to the players, but to the games themselves, and you can see it when you watch over time. Things you could once get by playing, become store fodder. And many end up paying much more than they would have when the game was subscription based. Sadly, in the case of RIFT, the more of these crazy decisions they make (more store items, less content & what content there is, is designed to send players to the store), the more customers they drive away, and the more crazy money-milking schemes they have to come up with. It's a death sprial. I have watched two once great games go down the very same way.

[StinVec.3621]

> @"Nikal.4921" said:

> Back when RIFT was a sub game, we could get very cool stuff just playing the game, as random drops, participating in seasonal events,. etc. After they went f2p, they began offloading what previously were (or would have been) random drops and event rewards, to their store. They began charging outrageous amounts of currency for what seasonal items they left available on the vendors, so that it become much more expedient (or even possible) to just buy them in the store. Then I read they started putting them in RNG boxes you had to buy from the store. How could they possibly think this would make a game more fun or enticing?

>

> There is danger in these stores, not just to the players, but to the games themselves, and you can see it when you watch over time. Things you could once get by playing, become store fodder. And many end up paying much more than they would have when the game was subscription based. Sadly, in the case of RIFT, the more of these crazy decisions they make (more store items, less content & what content there is, is designed to send players to the store), the more customers they drive away, and the more crazy money-milking schemes they have to come up with. It's a death sprial. I have watched two once great games go down the very same way.

 

I used to pay to play Rift for a while and really enjoyed it. It wasn't my dream MMORPG, and I loathe paying monthly to rent access to a game world, but it was a lot of fun and I felt it was worth it at the time (and I got what I consider my money's worth).

 

However, I had to take a year off from gaming (and everything, actually) and returned to see what they had turned it into while I was gone (even pre-f2p in 2012). It was bad enough to say 'no way' to subbing again. Thankfully GW2 was coming out and it looked absolutely fantastic! Having played GW1 for many years (from beta on through long nights during and after college), I was thrilled that GW2 was releasing.

 

Sadly, a few decisions made by ArenaNet 'shortly' after release made me go back and take a look at Rift after in went f2p in 2013 - I was thoroughly disgusted and immediately wiped that filth from my hard drive, never to be reinstalled again despite having thousands upon thousands of platinum sitting there unused.

 

Here we are 4.5 years later and, after skipping HoT (for many reasons) and finally being able to pick up PoF, I see GW2 making huge strides toward becoming the same vile game I felt dirty even having installed on my hard drive. There really is not much further to go before GW2 becomes the Rift I couldn't uninstall fast enough. Now that they've made such a monumental effort to show what they intend to do with GW2, I do not expect my time in this game world to be that much longer. Thousands of play hours in Rift (as well as thousands of platinum) and I walked due to greed dominating the game design. Thousands of play hours in GW2 (and thousands of gold) and I will walk since greed is making huge steps toward dominating the game design here.

 

I love the Guild Wars universe, I really used to love the company (and still do love some of the employees that remain - I wish them and theirs long and happy lives). However, **loyalty is earned - not earned once and lasting forever, but continuously with each action and inaction reinforcing or degrading that loyalty.**

 

I can no longer state that I support and am loyal to the game and the company when their actions have degraded my loyalty to this point. They can still right their wrong and turn things around in my eyes. I've forgiven them before when they made mistakes and at least tried to make appropriate efforts to correct and compensate for them. Even if those efforts failed, it was obvious that they really did learn from the mistake and wouldn't repeat it, ever.

 

I am willing to forgive again. However, admitting that _they_ made a mistake _and then correcting it_ is step 1 - a step they've not only chosen to not take this time, but one they instead straight up said they _will not_ take and that they will be repeating this mistake again in the future (which they already have).

 

It is now clear that it is no longer my happiness with the game as a customer, or my loyalty as a fan that they desire, but that which is in my wallet and bank account above all else. I'm not sure that laws changing at some point in the future to force them to alter or remove these changes to the game will make much of a difference any more. They've shown their hand - it's unapologetically red.

 

Considering the direction they've set themselves to go in - instead of relying on honest and fair offerings in their entertaining and rewarding games to fund development, they, and others, will likely just find some other new gimmick that sneaks around laws in order to prey on customers in an effort to filch more and more coins from wallets.

[Grampybone.3716]

I'm from Netherlands (neighbour country Belgium) and it may be possible this topic was discussed in the Dutch television show 'Kassa'. One of their topics was about gambling in online games. Unfortunately I missed it.

 

imo Loot boxes in GW2 are totally irrelevant, simply because the content in it is irrelevant. There's no jackpot, it's mostly goodies that you forget about it the moment you click away the reward window.

 

Did this Belgian minister play the game? Imo the Black Market store itself has more attractive stuff to empty your wallet than some lousy keys that you can get by playing. Maybe he should focus on the countless mobile games that shake money out of youth's pockets. Those are made for moneyleeching their customers.

 

Leave GW2 alone. But at the same time (aimed to devs), don't experiment with how far you can go regarding gambling.

[Lévis.5489]

> @Grampybone.3716 said:

> I'm from Netherlands (neighbour country Belgium) and it may be possible this topic was discussed in the Dutch television show 'Kassa'. One of their topics was about gambling in online games. Unfortunately I missed it.

>

> imo Loot boxes in GW2 are totally irrelevant, simply because the content in it is irrelevant. There's no jackpot, it's mostly goodies that you forget about it the moment you click away the reward window.

>

> Did this Belgian minister play the game? Imo the Black Market store itself has more attractive stuff to empty your wallet than some lousy keys that you can get by playing. Maybe he should focus on the countless mobile games that shake money out of youth's pockets. Those are made for moneyleeching their customers.

>

> Leave GW2 alone. But at the same time (aimed to devs), don't experiment with how far you can go regarding gambling.

 

Lot boxes themselves prey on those that have weak will.

 

 

[Orpheal.8263]

Loot Boxes are something, that should have been looked at by Belgium and in general by law of the governments of the various countries in America, Europe and especially Asia already many years ago, before this garbage could have grown into such a huge plague, that it has become by now to the point, that companies lately try more and more, how far they can go with their greed to draw the money out of the pockets of their players by RNG methods, instead of using fair and square legal methods to earn their money, that isnt so extremely anti moral, like abusing RNG methods to artificially increase this way their money incomes by abusing the fact of gambling making people addicted to the point, that they can lose control over themself and they money how much they spent on something ..

 

I'm personally sick about the excuses of the industry, which defends this antisocial behavior of companies that abuse these kind of rngs methods just to increase their own profits. it was just a question of time, until when it would happen, that one company one day will massively absure this so much, that international law institutions like that in Brussel in Belgium will get attention on these shady sales methods, especilaly once finally the line gets crossed so much, like in the case now with that Star Wars Game, where it was absolutely clear pay to win mixed together with RNG loot boxes.. which is also the reason which is why EA PROMPTLY reacted instantly on their other game projects that were planned to use the same anti social garbage dirt s*** system to abuse itss customers in their about to get to released game Need for Speed Payback and made lots of things in that game promptly instantly much easier to obtain from the loot boxes there, because they knew, if they wouldn#t do that instantly, they would instantly create the moment they release this game in the west now, make open the gate for instantly the next s***storm, while the previous one is still going on and reached now even the shores of other countries, which get finalyl the attention on what is going on in the gaming industry lately in Australia and Hawaii, where the governments are also now checking, how they get go on against this garbage by their laws and if they need to change something on their laws in the distant near future, to protect people from these shady gambling systems....

 

A well running game, which sells itself good enough, doen't have the need to make money like a shady online casino full of rng gambling mechanics everywhere just to artificialyl slow down massively the progress of the players - also in hope that the slowdown is so massively for the player, that it increases their willingness to spend real money into the game, just to speed up things in the game to a sane level, or to increase their chances to obtain something they want, which the company basicalyl could also sell DIRECTLY via the online store/gemstore, but no-- why sell something directly, and give the players what they want directly for a direct price, when you can play with your customers practically virtually cats and mice and try to lure with antisociual gambling mechanics that force your customers practically to pay much much more (if you are unlucky, and the system is made for making you basicalyl unlucky, because thats what the company wants - your money by you being mostly unlucky all the time), than what you wpould have payed for what you wan,t if you were able to buy what you want directly - because if you get what you want directly, then your will to buy somethign is instantly saturated and the chance, that you continue buying somethign from the gemstore massively falls down to zero, unless, and here comes now the spectacular bummer - unless the company adds quick enough new content into the gemstore, which generates new demand and the will for peopel to buy somethign from the gemstore to keep the sales windmill running ...=

 

The problem with the gemstore is, and I keep saying this now for years is.. the gemstore for GW2 is way too weak... it alone isn't able to pay all the bills and fix costs of this game.. especially and thats a sad truth - especialyl not if anet makes permanently only direct sales... because for that to continue would have to add Anet constantly in a much faster pace new content to the gemstore to make sure, that they can generate with just only direct sales continously enough income, so that the gemstore alone can keep this game alive - and its sad to see, that it seems, that even adding merchandise stores to the game and selling merchandie just seems to make not together with the gemstore enough profit for the game, so that ANet doesn't need to jump onmto the antisocial RNG wagon as well and has to play with their customers cats and mice as well, just to create this way asrtificially more money income to ensure, that the game can stay alive.

 

Unless there is a change in the law systems, the only thing we as customers can do - is to protect us self by just boycotting all forms of RNG system that companies in their gemstores throw at us.

If they just realize, that more and more people begin to ignore these shady moneygrabs , by looking at their so beloved statistics, that the moment they add these shady rng sales to the gemstore, that they sales totally break in, because of no one reactign to it, or the community even completely standign together and boycotting buying anythign from the gemstore, as logn there are rng sales methods in it, so faster we will - any everybody else in other games will see this scum method gettin rotted out to the point, that hopefulyl really no changes in laws are needed first to make companies by force stop to abuse these methiods just to artificially increase their incomes.

 

The only thing by definition that I personally want to see gettign changed by law internationally is the definition of "gambling" to the point, that loot booxes will bee seen internationally in general as gambling - stop with the excuses, stop with the abuses of trying to find always grey spot in your laws just to have a reason for why you can abuse your customers in such a way, just to generate artificially more money income - its just simply disgusting, dishonest, disrespectful and lastly dismissive to see, how companies literally do everything they can, just to make more money out of their customers, as long there is no clear law, which or who restricts them and keps them in check, so that such methods don't get abused to sell the customers of a game as good as possible for dumb, while they happily scream in joy, how many peopel they possible can cheat with this cheap sales tactis, while counting all the surplus of money they made meanwhile from people which tried by the time already by the xx th time to get somethign what they want, and still having no luck to get what they want, because the chances to obtain what you want are set by the companies will at like felt absurd 0,00000000000001% or so ...literaly letting the people try for all eternity to get what they want - letting this become practically a neverending story.

 

Online Gambling has been already way too long in this insdustry an untouched red blanket. Its about time, that something is finally made about all this.

I hope Belgium & Co will stay strong now on this topic and won't loose it out of sight now so quickly again, because if they do, this might lead really then finally to some big changes to the industry and hopefully also a more honest gemstore for GW2

[DarcShriek.5829]

> @Orpheal.8263 said:

> Loot Boxes are something, that should have been looked at by Belgium and in general by law of the governments of the various countries in America, Europe and especially Asia already many years ago, before this garbage could have grown into such a huge plague, that it has become by now to the point, that companies lately try more and more, how far they can go with their greed to draw the money out of the pockets of their players by RNG methods, instead of using fair and square legal methods to earn their money, that isnt so extremely anti moral, like abusing RNG methods to artificially increase this way their money incomes by abusing the fact of gambling making people addicted to the point, that they can lose control over themself and they money how much they spent on something ..

>

> I'm personally sick about the excuses of the industry, which defends this antisocial behavior of companies that abuse these kind of rngs methods just to increase their own profits. it was just a question of time, until when it would happen, that one company one day will massively absure this so much, that international law institutions like that in Brussel in Belgium will get attention on these shady sales methods, especilaly once finally the line gets crossed so much, like in the case now with that Star Wars Game, where it was absolutely clear pay to win mixed together with RNG loot boxes.. which is also the reason which is why EA PROMPTLY reacted instantly on their other game projects that were planned to use the same anti social garbage dirt s*** system to abuse itss customers in their about to get to released game Need for Speed Payback and made lots of things in that game promptly instantly much easier to obtain from the loot boxes there, because they knew, if they wouldn#t do that instantly, they would instantly create the moment they release this game in the west now, make open the gate for instantly the next s***storm, while the previous one is still going on and reached now even the shores of other countries, which get finalyl the attention on what is going on in the gaming industry lately in Australia and Hawaii, where the governments are also now checking, how they get go on against this garbage by their laws and if they need to change something on their laws in the distant near future, to protect people from these shady gambling systems....

>

> A well running game, which sells itself good enough, doen't have the need to make money like a shady online casino full of rng gambling mechanics everywhere just to artificialyl slow down massively the progress of the players - also in hope that the slowdown is so massively for the player, that it increases their willingness to spend real money into the game, just to speed up things in the game to a sane level, or to increase their chances to obtain something they want, which the company basicalyl could also sell DIRECTLY via the online store/gemstore, but no-- why sell something directly, and give the players what they want directly for a direct price, when you can play with your customers practically virtually cats and mice and try to lure with antisociual gambling mechanics that force your customers practically to pay much much more (if you are unlucky, and the system is made for making you basicalyl unlucky, because thats what the company wants - your money by you being mostly unlucky all the time), than what you wpould have payed for what you wan,t if you were able to buy what you want directly - because if you get what you want directly, then your will to buy somethign is instantly saturated and the chance, that you continue buying somethign from the gemstore massively falls down to zero, unless, and here comes now the spectacular bummer - unless the company adds quick enough new content into the gemstore, which generates new demand and the will for peopel to buy somethign from the gemstore to keep the sales windmill running ...=

>

> The problem with the gemstore is, and I keep saying this now for years is.. the gemstore for GW2 is way too weak... it alone isn't able to pay all the bills and fix costs of this game.. especially and thats a sad truth - especialyl not if anet makes permanently only direct sales... because for that to continue would have to add Anet constantly in a much faster pace new content to the gemstore to make sure, that they can generate with just only direct sales continously enough income, so that the gemstore alone can keep this game alive - and its sad to see, that it seems, that even adding merchandise stores to the game and selling merchandie just seems to make not together with the gemstore enough profit for the game, so that ANet doesn't need to jump onmto the antisocial RNG wagon as well and has to play with their customers cats and mice as well, just to create this way asrtificially more money income to ensure, that the game can stay alive.

>

> Unless there is a change in the law systems, the only thing we as customers can do - is to protect us self by just boycotting all forms of RNG system that companies in their gemstores throw at us.

> If they just realize, that more and more people begin to ignore these shady moneygrabs , by looking at their so beloved statistics, that the moment they add these shady rng sales to the gemstore, that they sales totally break in, because of no one reactign to it, or the community even completely standign together and boycotting buying anythign from the gemstore, as logn there are rng sales methods in it, so faster we will - any everybody else in other games will see this scum method gettin rotted out to the point, that hopefulyl really no changes in laws are needed first to make companies by force stop to abuse these methiods just to artificially increase their incomes.

>

> The only thing by definition that I personally want to see gettign changed by law internationally is the definition of "gambling" to the point, that loot booxes will bee seen internationally in general as gambling - stop with the excuses, stop with the abuses of trying to find always grey spot in your laws just to have a reason for why you can abuse your customers in such a way, just to generate artificially more money income - its just simply disgusting, dishonest, disrespectful and lastly dismissive to see, how companies literally do everything they can, just to make more money out of their customers, as long there is no clear law, which or who restricts them and keps them in check, so that such methods don't get abused to sell the customers of a game as good as possible for kitten, while they happily scream in joy, how many peopel they possible can cheat with this cheap sales tactis, while counting all the surplus of money they made meanwhile from people which tried by the time already by the xx th time to get somethign what they want, and still having no luck to get what they want, because the chances to obtain what you want are set by the companies will at like felt absurd 0,00000000000001% or so ...literaly letting the people try for all eternity to get what they want - letting this become practically a neverending story.

>

> Online Gambling has been already way too long in this insdustry an untouched red blanket. Its about time, that something is finally made about all this.

> I hope Belgium & Co will stay strong now on this topic and won't loose it out of sight now so quickly again, because if they do, this might lead really then finally to some big changes to the industry and hopefully also a more honest gemstore for GW2

 

Members of the house and senate in the US have looked at them. Also those in the state houses have looked at them. The US government leaves no stone unturned in the search for more activities to tax

 

[DarcShriek.5829]

You know there are people that work for EA that used to work in the gaming industry. The gaming industry and regulators have been aware of loot boxes since they first appeared.

 

I'm proud of the way EA has handled this matter. As someone that has worked on Licensed games I know that Disney not only knew of the loot boxes, but approved of them also. So far, EA has taken all the heat for this and Disney has received very little collateral damage.

[Leo G.4501]

> @OmskCamill.6412 said:

> > @Tomahawk.7361 said:

>

> > I'm slightly relieved Anet stated they will not offer RNG sales like that in the future (talk being cheap however, but I'll take them at their word for now).

>

> Except they never said that. When you filter out the water from [MO's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license/p1 "MO's post"),

> 70% of it is about how good RNG ~~lootboxes~~ mount adoption licenses are and how much benefits they bring to the players (who are, apparently, ungrateful and can't understand what's good for them).

> 30% of it says that they chose the wrong time to release it and they won't use it, quote, "for our **next planned** mount skin releases".

>

> Mike never said "we failed you". He never said "RNG lootboxes is a bad idea". He never said "we won't do it in the future". And why wouldn't they, they have BLC with exclusive RNG rewards that you can't get anywhere else.

>

> My hope is with Belgium and Europe.

 

So basically, you expected Mike to admit to untruths. They didn't fail. The adoption licenses aren't a bad idea. And they aren't going to agree to not do something that might work well when the numbers come in in a couple more months.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @OmskCamill.6412 said:

> > > @Tomahawk.7361 said:

> >

> > > I'm slightly relieved Anet stated they will not offer RNG sales like that in the future (talk being cheap however, but I'll take them at their word for now).

> >

> > Except they never said that. When you filter out the water from [MO's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license/p1 "MO's post"),

> > 70% of it is about how good RNG ~~lootboxes~~ mount adoption licenses are and how much benefits they bring to the players (who are, apparently, ungrateful and can't understand what's good for them).

> > 30% of it says that they chose the wrong time to release it and they won't use it, quote, "for our **next planned** mount skin releases".

> >

> > Mike never said "we failed you". He never said "RNG lootboxes is a bad idea". He never said "we won't do it in the future". And why wouldn't they, they have BLC with exclusive RNG rewards that you can't get anywhere else.

> >

> > My hope is with Belgium and Europe.

>

> So basically, you expected Mike to admit to untruths. They didn't fail. The adoption licenses aren't a bad idea. And they aren't going to agree to not do something that might work well when the numbers come in in a couple more months.

 

So, basically, you agree with OmskCamill on MOs post interpretation and that MO practically said "we don't think we did anything wrong and we aren't going to change anything in the future".

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @Liefizul.6574 said:

> Actually, I'm more worried about what it means for the gem-gold conversion system. Depending on how it is worded and since there are lootboxes purchasable via Gold + other currency... Not to mention salvaging could be seen as a form of gambling..

 

Unless the exchange system is rigged the gold price for gems will go up and stay there as people try to avoid paying for items that should be in the game.

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @Grampybone.3716 said:

> I'm from Netherlands (neighbour country Belgium) and it may be possible this topic was discussed in the Dutch television show 'Kassa'. One of their topics was about gambling in online games. Unfortunately I missed it.

>

> imo Loot boxes in GW2 are totally irrelevant, simply because the content in it is irrelevant. There's no jackpot, it's mostly goodies that you forget about it the moment you click away the reward window.

>

> Did this Belgian minister play the game? Imo the Black Market store itself has more attractive stuff to empty your wallet than some lousy keys that you can get by playing. Maybe he should focus on the countless mobile games that shake money out of youth's pockets. Those are made for moneyleeching their customers.

>

> Leave GW2 alone. But at the same time (aimed to devs), don't experiment with how far you can go regarding gambling.

 

It's not irrelevant if entire swaths of unlockables are only available in the store, like mount skins. We still only have _one_ for each mount in the game. The jackpot is getting the skin you actually wanted. The "bust" is getting any other one than the one you wanted as you can't even give them away.

[Leo G.4501]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @OmskCamill.6412 said:

> > > > @Tomahawk.7361 said:

> > >

> > > > I'm slightly relieved Anet stated they will not offer RNG sales like that in the future (talk being cheap however, but I'll take them at their word for now).

> > >

> > > Except they never said that. When you filter out the water from [MO's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license/p1 "MO's post"),

> > > 70% of it is about how good RNG ~~lootboxes~~ mount adoption licenses are and how much benefits they bring to the players (who are, apparently, ungrateful and can't understand what's good for them).

> > > 30% of it says that they chose the wrong time to release it and they won't use it, quote, "for our **next planned** mount skin releases".

> > >

> > > Mike never said "we failed you". He never said "RNG lootboxes is a bad idea". He never said "we won't do it in the future". And why wouldn't they, they have BLC with exclusive RNG rewards that you can't get anywhere else.

> > >

> > > My hope is with Belgium and Europe.

> >

> > So basically, you expected Mike to admit to untruths. They didn't fail. The adoption licenses aren't a bad idea. And they aren't going to agree to not do something that might work well when the numbers come in in a couple more months.

>

> So, basically, you agree with OmskCamill on MOs post interpretation and that MO practically said "we don't think we did anything wrong and we aren't going to change anything in the future".

 

You are using a strawman (putting words in people's mouths and then attacking those words) as well as projecting your dissatisfaction on the opinions of the majority while also just making radical assumptions.

 

I bet, if this was a mini adoption license, you probably wouldn't give a crap but since it's something you want, you will over dramatize the issue until you get things your way.

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> I bet, if this was a mini adoption license, you probably wouldn't give a crap but since it's something you want, you will over dramatize the issue until you get things your way.

 

People are allowed to care about the things they care about and not care about things they don't care about. There's no obligation to care about all things equally, and it doesn't value anyone's positions.

 

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

As I 've chirped before.. the way it is we get to buy skins at 400 gems a pop with an added twist of increasing odds of getting the one we really desire.

We all like different things, not everyone wants the one skin out of 30 so we have a choice.. try to get the one we most desire with one purchase or take your time and build up your skins.. its a guaranteed win-win. The only person that considers it a gamble is the person that doesn't understand what choice is all about.

But in the future we likely wont be paying 400 gems for each skin, I bet it'll be at least twice that and more for the ones that subjectively people think are the best and all those kiddies supposedly hooked to "gambling" without any parental guidance, will become hooked on buying a lot more gems using moms credit card, so now we move into family debt crisis management next door to gamblers anonymous... same whiners different subject matter.

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

Anet could just release each of those skins within the license separately in the gem store for 1,200-2,000 gems each while keeping the current license package.

 

Problem solved as players are no longer required to rely on RNG for a specific skin but if they want to take the chance to get it cheaper then they can do the RNG license package.

[Game of Bones.8975]

When I enter a Fractal, technically I'm gambling that my squad will finish and I'll be rewarded with "X". There is no guarantee we'll be successful.

 

Sometimes people are obsessed with Fractals to the point of spending real money to obtain the "perfect" piece of gear.

 

Any government regulation is dangerous when taken too far. They are easy to pass and rarely get taken off the books.

[list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/](http://list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/ "list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/")

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> Any government regulation is dangerous when taken too far. They are easy to pass and rarely get taken off the books.

> [list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/](http://list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/ "list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/")

 

True, and yet without thousands of *rational* government regulations the world would be a nightmare to live in.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > Any government regulation is dangerous when taken too far. They are easy to pass and rarely get taken off the books.

> > [list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/](http://list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/ "list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/")

>

> True, and yet without thousands of *rational* government regulations the world would be a nightmare to live in.

 

One could argue that such regulation actually creates the nightmare or at best make the nightmare just that much worse for some.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

> > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > > Any government regulation is dangerous when taken too far. They are easy to pass and rarely get taken off the books.

> > > [list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/](http://list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/ "list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/")

> >

> > True, and yet without thousands of *rational* government regulations the world would be a nightmare to live in.

>

> One could argue that such regulation actually creates the nightmare or at best make the nightmare just that much worse for some.

 

Sure, but one would be wrong, should one argue that. One really aughtn't argue that, because it makes one look foolish.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @Ayrilana.1396 said:

> Anet could just release each of those skins within the license separately in the gem store for 1,200-2,000 gems each while keeping the current license package.

>

> Problem solved as players are no longer required to rely on RNG for a specific skin but if they want to take the chance to get it cheaper then they can do the RNG license package.

 

ANet, as a business, can release whatever they like in whatever manner they choose and at whatever price point they think the market will bear. Consumers then have options. Should ANet do as you suggest, consumers could:

 

1) Spend more money by accepting a high price point.

2) Waste money by gambling they will get the one(s) they want cheaper.

3) Say, "Since outfits for characters are priced at 700 gems, outfits for mounts should not cost more." and then decide _not_ to waste money.

 

I'd hope they would take the last option. The only reason companies get away with high prices for discretionary items is because consumers allow them to.

[Leo G.4501]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > I bet, if this was a mini adoption license, you probably wouldn't give a crap but since it's something you want, you will over dramatize the issue until you get things your way.

>

> People are allowed to care about the things they care about and not care about things they don't care about. There's no obligation to care about all things equally, and it doesn't value anyone's positions.

>

>

 

Then we should dismiss the whole "loot box" argument (because they aren't) and actually discuss solutions and compromises. That people still band wagon the loot box thing has diminished constructive feedback. Like, asking the devs to introduce a couple of in game skin options through achievements wouldn't be a bad idea. Trying to get adoption licenses banned is just petty.

[Leo G.4501]

> @Ayrilana.1396 said:

> Anet could just release each of those skins within the license separately in the gem store for 1,200-2,000 gems each while keeping the current license package.

>

> Problem solved as players are no longer required to rely on RNG for a specific skin but if they want to take the chance to get it cheaper then they can do the RNG license package.

 

I think this would be a good idea as well with the caveat being release times. If that were the case, charging even 800 gems seems fair if the window to obtain a particular skin is only 1 week and you'd likely have to wait for it to rotate in again several months later.

[Leo G.4501]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > @"Game of Bones.8975" said:

> > > > Any government regulation is dangerous when taken too far. They are easy to pass and rarely get taken off the books.

> > > > [list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/](http://list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/ "list25.com/25-stupid-government-regulations-that-will-make-you-shake-your-head/")

> > >

> > > True, and yet without thousands of *rational* government regulations the world would be a nightmare to live in.

> >

> > One could argue that such regulation actually creates the nightmare or at best make the nightmare just that much worse for some.

>

> Sure, but one would be wrong, should one argue that. One really aughtn't argue that, because it makes one look foolish.

 

Really?

 

Do we have to give examples so you can grasp the point?