Get rid of Scourge blind and weakness

[Flauvious.6195]

Why does scourge need every condition in the game? They already melt you in seconds, do they really need perma weakness, blind and cripple to make it that much harder to kill them before the endless bleeds and burns kill you?

[Sismis.5390]

Scourge dmg is Torment if you let your self get more then 20 stacks its going to hurt.The cripple or bleeds or fire its just not the real dmg.The issue is missing class in your team to cleanse - remove conditions.Having more over 20+ stacks torment you move even 1 step it eats you for 14k to 19k or more dmg per step you move. Current match ups are a joke and scourge cause it come out sooo op and give the feeling to be a nuke bomb.While the problem is other side.Power is and still doing good burst dmg but the matches you have and teams end up totally different.And its giving the false feeling conditions rule everything.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

The spammable weakness is now a more obvious problem. I'm glad there's threads now looking at that ridiculous condition. 1 condition that applies for 10s when corrupting might that also destroys all the precision and ferocity you put in your build.

 

So if the scourge doesn't kill you, it's ok you still lose because you can't kill it.

 

Inb4 condition build scrubs cry about cleanses and resistance like they are applied as cheap/commonly as conditions. I'd love to have a 0 cast time 5s CD 2 condition clear on my revenant to counter the 0 cast time 5s CD AoE boon corrupt and condition application of Nefarious Favor, yet here we are.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Use a ranger or thief, you'll never have a problem with scourge again.

 

Rock/Paper/Scissors my friend. Stop trying to attack scissors with paper, go get yourself a rock.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> Use a ranger or thief, you'll never have a problem with scourge again.

>

> Rock/Paper/Scissors my friend. Stop trying to attack scissors with paper, go get yourself a rock.

 

So everyone's ok with scourge shutting down all melee then? Cool

[Crinn.7864]

> @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

> > @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> > Use a ranger or thief, you'll never have a problem with scourge again.

> >

> > Rock/Paper/Scissors my friend. Stop trying to attack scissors with paper, go get yourself a rock.

>

> So everyone's ok with scourge shutting down all melee then? Cool

 

Scourge shuts down melees because of all it's F skills apply in a 300 radius killzone that is perpetually cenetered on the scourge's position.

 

If arenanet would just get rid of the from scourge effects, and make it so that scourge's offense comes exclusively from the shades, it would make fighting scourge a lot better, since the scourge would actually be forced into sticking with their shades, instead of shades being this fire and forget mechanic.

 

Blind and Weakness are not what is making scourge strong. Scourge actually has less blind access than reaper, and scourge's weakness application is no different than core necro.

 

Scourge's blind sources:

* using putrid mark to blast the dark field spawned by scourge's 60 second cooldown elite skill.

* corrupting fury

 

Scourge's Weakness sources:

* Weakening Shroud (if running Curses)

* Might Corruption

 

Now Scourge's cripple access is another story, with every single F skill, and every single punishment skill applying cripple.

 

 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

> > > @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> > > Use a ranger or thief, you'll never have a problem with scourge again.

> > >

> > > Rock/Paper/Scissors my friend. Stop trying to attack scissors with paper, go get yourself a rock.

> >

> > So everyone's ok with scourge shutting down all melee then? Cool

>

> Scourge shuts down melees because of all it's F skills apply in a 300 radius killzone that is perpetually cenetered on the scourge's position.

>

> If arenanet would just get rid of the from scourge effects, and make it so that scourge's offense comes exclusively from the shades, it would make fighting scourge a lot better, since the scourge would actually be forced into sticking with their shades, instead of shades being this fire and forget mechanic.

>

> Blind and Weakness are not what is making scourge strong. Scourge actually has less blind access than reaper, and scourge's weakness application is no different than core necro.

>

> Scourge's blind sources:

> * using putrid mark to blast the dark field spawned by scourge's 60 second cooldown elite skill.

> * corrupting fury

>

> Scourge's Weakness sources:

> * Weakening Shroud (if running Curses)

> * Might Corruption

>

> Now Scourge's cripple access is another story, with every single F skill, and every single punishment skill applying cripple.

>

>

 

Why do you brush off blind and weakness sources just because there's two? How many short CD boon corrupts does scourge have? How often can a scourge corrupt might into (ten fucking seconds of) weakness and fury into blind in an average fight, AoE with no cast and short CDs?

 

You're trying to compare core necro and reaper blind and weakness application with scourge by saying "see same sources guys, 1 skill and corrupts" while ignoring the fact that scourges shit out AoE, short CD, castless corrupts.

 

Compare Nefarious Favor to core necro shroud 2 and tell me I'll get the same amount of might to weakness corrupts in a fight. Hell, remember when Corrupt Boon was brought down to 15s and everyone was like Anet you crazy? Corrupt Boon has a cast time, is single target, and takes a utility slot. Compare Nefarious Favor to that, no cast time, AoE, F skill, 1/3rd the CD. And please don't say deathshroud usage on Nefarious Favor justifies this. It doesn't.

[Crinn.7864]

> @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

> > > > @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

> > > > Use a ranger or thief, you'll never have a problem with scourge again.

> > > >

> > > > Rock/Paper/Scissors my friend. Stop trying to attack scissors with paper, go get yourself a rock.

> > >

> > > So everyone's ok with scourge shutting down all melee then? Cool

> >

> > Scourge shuts down melees because of all it's F skills apply in a 300 radius killzone that is perpetually cenetered on the scourge's position.

> >

> > If arenanet would just get rid of the from scourge effects, and make it so that scourge's offense comes exclusively from the shades, it would make fighting scourge a lot better, since the scourge would actually be forced into sticking with their shades, instead of shades being this fire and forget mechanic.

> >

> > Blind and Weakness are not what is making scourge strong. Scourge actually has less blind access than reaper, and scourge's weakness application is no different than core necro.

> >

> > Scourge's blind sources:

> > * using putrid mark to blast the dark field spawned by scourge's 60 second cooldown elite skill.

> > * corrupting fury

> >

> > Scourge's Weakness sources:

> > * Weakening Shroud (if running Curses)

> > * Might Corruption

> >

> > Now Scourge's cripple access is another story, with every single F skill, and every single punishment skill applying cripple.

> >

> >

>

> Why do you brush off blind and weakness sources just because there's two? How many short CD boon corrupts does scourge have? How often can a scourge corrupt might into (ten kitten seconds of) weakness and fury into blind in an average fight, AoE with no cast and short CDs?

>

> You're trying to compare core necro and reaper blind and weakness application with scourge by saying "see same sources guys, 1 skill and corrupts" while ignoring the fact that scourges kitten out AoE, short CD, castless corrupts.

>

> Compare Nefarious Favor to core necro shroud 2 and tell me I'll get the same amount of might to weakness corrupts in a fight. Hell, remember when Corrupt Boon was brought down to 15s and everyone was like Anet you crazy? Corrupt Boon has a cast time, is single target, and takes a utility slot. Compare Nefarious Favor to that, no cast time, AoE, F skill, 1/3rd the CD. And please don't say deathshroud usage on Nefarious Favor justifies this. It doesn't.

 

None of that is unique to scourge. Necros have been able to maintain 100% weakness uptime on a target since before HoT, none of this is new.

 

Also the ability to maintain 100% weakness is due to the boon conversion table, not anything specific to scourge.

 

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

I'm curious...how does scourge get accessible blind as some claimed? Sure there is a trait and corrupt on weakness but blind was never a strong suit for necro except some weird wells and GS skill

[Crinn.7864]

> @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

> I'm curious...how does scourge get accessible blind as some claimed? Sure there is a trait and corrupt on weakness but blind was never a strong suit for necro except some weird wells and GS skill

 

OP probably plays a class that has large amounts of Fury generation, since fury corrupts into blind.

[KrHome.1920]

Scourge uses the same weakness mechanics like Reaper (Might Corruption and Curses Traitline). If you nerf that you kill Reaper completely as its sustain is already low. Reaper relies on Weakness. It's one of its main defense mechanics!

 

I am really sick of these incompetent postings with ideas that would just make everything worse.

 

Crinn made a good suggestion: Remove the F-skill AOE around the Scourge itself. To be honest I never understood why the Scourge counts as a shade itself. If he wants to go melee he shall put a damn shade at his feet.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> Scourge uses the same weakness mechanics like Reaper (Might Corruption and Curses Traitline). If you nerf that you kill Reaper completely as its sustain is already low. Reaper relies on Weakness. It's one of its main defense mechanics!

>

> I am really sick of these incompetent postings with ideas that would just make everything worse.

>

> Crinn made a good suggestion: Remove the F-skill AOE around the Scourge itself. To be honest I never understood why the Scourge counts as a shade itself. If he wants to go melee he shall put a kitten shade at his feet.

 

And I'm really sick of 4 scourges in every game and people being like "just play thief or ranger" like you should have to completely abandon the class you actually want to play because of one stupid tumor that all the meta slaves flock to for the free wins.

 

Crinns suggestion would be fantastic, scourges might have to actually put a bit of brainpower into their circle spamming.

 

[Flauvious.6195]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

> > I'm curious...how does scourge get accessible blind as some claimed? Sure there is a trait and corrupt on weakness but blind was never a strong suit for necro except some weird wells and GS skill

>

> OP probably plays a class that has large amounts of Fury generation, since fury corrupts into blind.

 

Lol herald, so yes. This meta of boon corruption and boon strip is awful.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @Flauvious.6195 said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

> > > I'm curious...how does scourge get accessible blind as some claimed? Sure there is a trait and corrupt on weakness but blind was never a strong suit for necro except some weird wells and GS skill

> >

> > OP probably plays a class that has large amounts of Fury generation, since fury corrupts into blind.

>

> Lol herald, so yes. This meta of boon corruption and boon strip is awful.

 

Swap in a Hammer and wreck scourges from afar. This is perhaps the best meta I've ever seen for hammer rev.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

> > @Flauvious.6195 said:

> > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

> > > > I'm curious...how does scourge get accessible blind as some claimed? Sure there is a trait and corrupt on weakness but blind was never a strong suit for necro except some weird wells and GS skill

> > >

> > > OP probably plays a class that has large amounts of Fury generation, since fury corrupts into blind.

> >

> > Lol herald, so yes. This meta of boon corruption and boon strip is awful.

>

> Swap in a Hammer and wreck scourges from afar. This is perhaps the best meta I've ever seen for hammer rev.

 

This is what I do, but half the maps in rotation make this impossible. Try wrecking scourges from afar on skyhammer when the scourge comes to take your home. Also people act like scourges have like 600 range on everything, they have the same 1200 range as hammer...

[Rufo.3716]

Don't stand on top of a scourge and you'll be fine. Every class has access to at least some form of ranged attacks. I suggest you equip at least one.

 

I'd feel sorry for any of you if you played DAoC back in the day when all the PBAoE was running around. Going into a choke point was literally instant death, guess what, people adapted and didn't run into the choke point anymore. There are plenty of worse problems with classes right now than scourge.

[XgamerXgodX.9617]

If u really wanted to balance Scourge w/o changing numbers drastically as it so often has been with most class balances,

all u really need to do is add internal cd's on use between shades like Chrono shatters.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @Rufo.3716 said:

> Don't stand on top of a scourge and you'll be fine. Every class has access to at least some form of ranged attacks. I suggest you equip at least one.

>

> I'd feel sorry for any of you if you played DAoC back in the day when all the PBAoE was running around. Going into a choke point was literally instant death, guess what, people adapted and didn't run into the choke point anymore. There are plenty of worse problems with classes right now than scourge.

 

Like what? What classes are bigger problems? If you can trivialize scourge with a sentance I can do the same to literally any other class you think is a bigger problem.

[messiah.1908]

necro/scourge and reaper need weakness as defense condition which reduce the dmg they take. the main problem is the amount of conditions the scourge pull out with low cd combine with great abilities to corrupt boons and doing so on a large area.

i never got 20 torment stacks but its hard to fight them as the constant application of conditions i slowly die.

necro dont have much blind.

few solutions:

scourge need bit tune down to shade radius as mainly a defense utilities around them and not all over the area with 300r tune down to 240r

or duration should be lower like 5 sec. or the cd should be like 3 sec and not 0.5 sec.

and also give the F skills activation time like 0.5-1.5 sec so it can be interruptible like shroud use.

and when choosing scourge your corruption ability only convert any boon to torment and cripple for 2 sec. so now necro wont have almost any conditions in the game. and can get higher stacks to enemies around them for short duration.

[brannigan.9831]

> @Flauvious.6195 said:

> Why does scourge need every condition in the game? They already melt you in seconds, do they really need perma weakness, blind and cripple to make it that much harder to kill them before the endless bleeds and burns kill you?

 

don't forget the torment stacks that make you have to stand rooted in place if you can't cleanse them or you insta kill yourself almost. It is tied with pre nerf DH for the lowest skill class ever except its much more powerful then they were.

[Turk.5460]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> Scourge uses the same weakness mechanics like Reaper (Might Corruption and Curses Traitline). If you nerf that you kill Reaper completely as its sustain is already low. Reaper relies on Weakness. It's one of its main defense mechanics!

>

> I am really sick of these incompetent postings with ideas that would just make everything worse.

>

> Crinn made a good suggestion: Remove the F-skill AOE around the Scourge itself. To be honest I never understood why the Scourge counts as a shade itself. If he wants to go melee he shall put a kitten shade at his feet.

 

Might being converted into 10 seconds of Weakness is still ridiculous. This needs to be cut in half *at least*.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > Scourge uses the same weakness mechanics like Reaper (Might Corruption and Curses Traitline). If you nerf that you kill Reaper completely as its sustain is already low. Reaper relies on Weakness. It's one of its main defense mechanics!

> >

> > I am really sick of these incompetent postings with ideas that would just make everything worse.

> >

> > Crinn made a good suggestion: Remove the F-skill AOE around the Scourge itself. To be honest I never understood why the Scourge counts as a shade itself. If he wants to go melee he shall put a kitten shade at his feet.

>

> Might being converted into 10 seconds of Weakness is still ridiculous. This needs to be cut in half *at least*.

 

I don't know how feasible it is, but I rather like an idea I saw on the forums to have the duration of the weakness be dependent on the # of might stacks. Say 2 seconds base, +0.5 seconds for each stack of might after the first? So 5 stacks would give you 4s weakness, a full 25stacks would convert to 14s weakness.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > Scourge uses the same weakness mechanics like Reaper (Might Corruption and Curses Traitline). If you nerf that you kill Reaper completely as its sustain is already low. Reaper relies on Weakness. It's one of its main defense mechanics!

> > >

> > > I am really sick of these incompetent postings with ideas that would just make everything worse.

> > >

> > > Crinn made a good suggestion: Remove the F-skill AOE around the Scourge itself. To be honest I never understood why the Scourge counts as a shade itself. If he wants to go melee he shall put a kitten shade at his feet.

> >

> > Might being converted into 10 seconds of Weakness is still ridiculous. This needs to be cut in half *at least*.

>

> I don't know how feasible it is, but I rather like an idea I saw on the forums to have the duration of the weakness be dependent on the # of might stacks. Say 2 seconds base, +0.5 seconds for each stack of might after the first? So 5 stacks would give you 4s weakness, a full 25stacks would convert to 14s weakness.

 

How is 14s of a condition that destroys it's targets power damage potential almost completely and inflicted from a single skill sound balanced to you lol, how much damage does 25 might add compared to how much damage weakness takes away? Is that fair?

 

Do I even need to mention that scourge has effectively infinite corrupts with how low the CDs are and how many they have? *Instant cast AoE corrupts.* Removed Equilibrium probably because some Dev got one shot by a power AoE single hit burst, so let's scrap that and give Condi AoE instant cast spam to necros instead!

[Flauvious.6195]

LOL 14 seconds of weakness? It's already ridiculous that one skill takes away not only the massive amount of damage from 25 might stacks, but also inflicts weakness forever so you do even less damage. Yea let's make that weakness 14 seconds.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @Flauvious.6195 said:

> LOL 14 seconds of weakness? It's already ridiculous that one skill takes away not only the massive amount of damage from 25 might stacks, but also inflicts weakness forever so you do even less damage. Yea let's make that weakness 14 seconds.

 

It's a good thing corruption is sooo rare!

 

Aaaaand it's instant cast 5s CD AoE. And on every scourge F skill.