Not a fan of Mai Trin changes

[rohbroy.5736]

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> The changes had nothing to do with damage numbers, but rather the general mechanics of the entire fight. In the original fight,

> 1. it was unclear who Horrik targets, and therefore requires everybody to stack on Mai Trin, thereby negatively affecting the gameplay experience of ranged players;

> 2. after teleporting, Mai Trin could change targets, including players from which she just teleported _away_ from, thereby making her movements erratic and difficult to control or predict. This was problematic in a fight where positioning her was critical to the mechanics; and

> 3. at every 25% of Mai Trin's health, the fight would go on pause for lengthy amounts of time for the cannon phase. For groups that could burst Mai Trin down quickly, the long periods of non-fighting became a significant portion of the entire encounter.

 

I just mentioned damage as an example of how to "slightly" fix something, not for this encounter specifically.

 

They could for example just have added the target indicator and lowered the 25% phase duration, without all the other changes.

I feel like she is still hard to kite so you have to stack on her anyways, which makes the new target indicator obsolete.

 

 

[Gambino.2109]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > > @Hesacon.8735 said:

> > > I like it, the mechanics make it a less painful fight as now you're not waiting on the RNG to feed you a bomb she steps out of after removing only one stack.

> >

> > The only problem now is that it is harder to do with bad pugs.

>

> And why is this a problem in the first place? Bad pugs have lower tiers where they can practice, so they aren't quite so bad.

 

Cause why the heck do you want to complicate your life.. to do something that was already getting done with out hassle...

 

S

[Rennie.6750]

It's on today's rotation and I have to say that it's much better now. Good job on that one!

[Hydroclasm.8572]

Yeah, I'm also not super thrilled with the changes. Playing on a squishy Ele, the cannon shots that go on **all the time now** really hurt. I appreciate the fixate and cannon target clarity, but stacking on Mai still seems to be the easiest way to get her shield down since you only have a few seconds after being marked by a cannon shot before it lands, and Mai might be doing stationary attacks while you're trying to kite her through the field.

 

I didn't really have any complaints about the pre patch cannon phase either. Maybe it was a little long if you had a well coordinated static team, but it felt more fair than the constant barrage that happens while you're trying to cleave down adds and take off Mai's shield.

 

PS: The camera is still bad in this fractal if you play zoomed out, as I do. I'm sure there was a lot of work that went into the catwalks and whatnot that are in the air/on the ceiling, but those are slightly less important for me to see than the dozens of new AoEs I need to gtf out of.

[Shiyo.3578]

A lot easier and enjoyable now.

 

Only issue is that it kind of wants a healer really bad(but so does everything added post-hot, yay).

[Sublimatio.6981]

i confirm, the new mai fight is cancerous. nobody asked for perma aoes and adds.

 

i dont like where the encounter design is going in gw2. i enjoyed when it was about watching the boss and it's attacks, i hate it when all the difficulty is enforced by aoe circles spawning entire fight. this isn't fun and doesn't feel like combat anymore because it's so abused. it feels like some minigame instead of combat.

[Vinceman.4572]

Agreed, a lot easier now.

[Winegum.2395]

Is it just me or is the fractal really confusing because every single AOE indicator is orange? There should be some distinction between the electric and fire fields because we respond to them differently, but having them both be orange just makes it unnecessarily difficult. Currently the only way to distinguish them is by looking for an icon above someones head, which is not easy when theres so much going on...

[Astralporing.1957]

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> The changes had nothing to do with damage numbers, but rather the general mechanics of the entire fight. In the original fight,

> 1. it was unclear who Horrik targets, and therefore requires everybody to stack on Mai Trin, thereby negatively affecting the gameplay experience of ranged players;

> 2. after teleporting, Mai Trin could change targets, including players from which she just teleported _away_ from, thereby making her movements erratic and difficult to control or predict. This was problematic in a fight where positioning her was critical to the mechanics; and

Those two things could have been addressed without redoing the whole fight with just adding an indicator and having trin fixate for a while after a target change. By the way, she still needs to be stacked on, so the 2nd problem is only partially addressed (in fact, what was addressed was the least important of the things that made her movements erratic)

 

> @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> 3. at every 25% of Mai Trin's health, the fight would go on pause for lengthy amounts of time for the cannon phase. For groups that could burst Mai Trin down quickly, the long periods of non-fighting became a significant portion of the entire encounter.

Sure. People disliked the cannon phase, so the obvious solution is to extend it on the whole fight. Brilliant.

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Winegum.2395 said:

> Is it just me or is the fractal really confusing because every single AOE indicator is orange? There should be some distinction between the electric and fire fields because we respond to them differently, but having them both be orange just makes it unnecessarily difficult. Currently the only way to distinguish them is by looking for an icon above someones head, which is not easy when theres so much going on...

 

That's good idea. I played Mai Trin yesterday and I think the hardest part will be to get used to new fields.

 

Also new cannon balls are stupid. They removed cannons and now cannonballs fall from the ceiling.

[Feanor.2358]

I absolutely love Mai Trin changes. The fight is better paced now, a lot more dynamic and gives you something to do all the time. Mai's fixation and Horrik's targeting indicators are a very welcome addition. You can now position her a lot better and draw Horrik's fire where you want it, either away from the party or toward Mai depending on the attack. Clearing the adds and attacking Horrik during the cannons phase also feels very good, especially on the last one when her high-ranked crew members appear instead of generic Aetherblades.

[Zunki.3916]

I actually was surprised, after reading here I thought it is harder. Then experiencing it myself it felt really tuned down by a lot. The aoe is so slow and predictable as nothing before. Also, the voidzone indicator is just too harsh, could have been a bit less aggressive. When I first saw it I was like "the pattern can't be that easy, that's a joke, right?", but indeed it was that easy.

The change is okay, but the fight was actually a little bit too chill for a 95 spot.

[bugverwirrt.7351]

They fixed the random mechanics. Mai Trin is fixated on a Player, so you can Position her correctly into electric fields, which you can spot easily now. The cannon shots from Horik are fixated on a Player, so he can get them out of the group. The overall cannon shots coming in a fixed pattern.

It might seem harder, but it is actually faster since and without the random factors.

I like it much more that way, you might have to move constantly and yes certain mechanics can one shot you, but it is all dodgeable and you know what happens at any point.

[Feanor.2358]

> @Zunki.3916 said:

> I actually was surprised, after reading here I thought it is harder. Then experiencing it myself it felt really tuned down by a lot. The aoe is so slow and predictable as nothing before. Also, the voidzone indicator is just too harsh, could have been a bit less aggressive. When I first saw it I was like "the pattern can't be that easy, that's a joke, right?", but indeed it was that easy.

> The change is okay, but the fight was actually a little bit too chill for a 95 spot.

 

You're right that the overall difficulty of the fight seem to be tuned down a bit. But IMO normal mode fractals aren't about challenge, they're more about the gameplay experience. Which got improved a lot, so I'm happy with the change. Just as a reference, Thaumanova is higher level and it's not harder.

[Shaogin.2679]

I spent hours with various groups trying to get this done. I don't know why but a lot of people seem to be having issues with this which is weird because it actually easier now. I mean sure there is more aoe crap to avoid and some extra minions to fight, but everything is also more telegraphed now.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Seems like a good change to me.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @Ojimaru.8970 said:

> > 3. at every 25% of Mai Trin's health, the fight would go on pause for lengthy amounts of time for the cannon phase. For groups that could burst Mai Trin down quickly, the long periods of non-fighting became a significant portion of the entire encounter.

> Sure. People disliked the cannon phase, so the obvious solution is to extend it on the whole fight. Brilliant.

>

The entire fight is the same length--or maybe longer--for groups with low DPS. With a group that isn't pulling an average of 1k DPS you can group and cleave the adds on top of Horrik, instead of chasing them down one by one.

 

Furthermore, the cannon fire has a set pattern, not unlike the Aetherblade fractal. So it'll be a little while before people get the hang of the new cannon mechanics.

 

> @Winegum.2395 said:

> Is it just me or is the fractal really confusing because every single AOE indicator is orange? There should be some distinction between the electric and fire fields because we respond to them differently, but having them both be orange just makes it unnecessarily difficult. Currently the only way to distinguish them is by looking for an icon above someones head, which is not easy when theres so much going on...

 

Actually there is a distinction between the Fire and Lightning cannon shot indicators. The Lightning Cannon AOEs have tiny jagged lines along the perimeter. :#

 

[Cerioth.7062]

I love the Mai Trin changes! It feels a lot clearer now.

[Rennie.6750]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @Zunki.3916 said:

> > I actually was surprised, after reading here I thought it is harder. Then experiencing it myself it felt really tuned down by a lot. The aoe is so slow and predictable as nothing before. Also, the voidzone indicator is just too harsh, could have been a bit less aggressive. When I first saw it I was like "the pattern can't be that easy, that's a joke, right?", but indeed it was that easy.

> > The change is okay, but the fight was actually a little bit too chill for a 95 spot.

>

> You're right that the overall difficulty of the fight seem to be tuned down a bit. But IMO normal mode fractals aren't about challenge, they're more about the gameplay experience. Which got improved a lot, so I'm happy with the change. Just as a reference, Thaumanova is higher level and it's not harder.

 

It seems easier because now we have a lot more control over the two critical mechanics. It's easier when you know them, as it should be. It's not a bad thing, in fact I like the new player agency very much enjoyable.

[Nokaru.7831]

> @Winegum.2395 said:

> Is it just me or is the fractal really confusing because every single AOE indicator is orange? There should be some distinction between the electric and fire fields because we respond to them differently, but having them both be orange just makes it unnecessarily difficult. Currently the only way to distinguish them is by looking for an icon above someones head, which is not easy when theres so much going on...

 

The new raid uses red-colored AoE fields and I think they should consider using red fields whenever there's an abundance of orange ones.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Edit: Forgot my question

 

Okay I did it today must say was a big try and error orgy 4X team and something about 15 tries before finished.

[Turin.6921]

I actually really like the changes...It requires a bit of a getting used to but in the end of the day every telegraphs are more clear, there is a difference between the fire and electrical AoE, the fight is faster and you do not have to run around like chickens all the time and you can control Mai's position much more reliably. Now if only the crap on the ceiling that get in the way of the camera sometimes were removed and the encounter would be perfect.

[apharma.3741]

Played it this evening for the first time, ele has been my main for 4 years, wasn’t a fun fight with all the AoE cannons when burning Mai down but I’ll give it a few more tries before I scream this is a poo change.

 

One thing I liked about fractals was they were little bites of content, roll for swamp, do your 15-30mins depending on roll and get your loot at the end. Then they were changed so we just did each one individually which was even better as you could pick and choose and they were done much quicker and so much easier to slot into a day or rerun with friends if they’re 1 or 2 short.

 

Now they’re getting longer and filled with a lot of needless amounts of mobs and fluff, the Molten boss while needed to have more to it is now a pointless run through a tediously large number of mob groups. Mai Trin feels like a needless change and having canon AOEs raining down during the fight does nothing other than make it an annoying fight for anyone with a channeled skill with the mobs just being cleaved out with Horrick. That’s without mentioning how it is now nothing like the fight used to be which annoys me more than I thought it would as these were supposed to be ways of playing content from the past but I guess not anymore.

[Alinora Targew.1679]

I want to wish good luck to who ever wants to do the legendary backpack now.

[setdog.1592]

i like the new version.