Spoilers Lw S4 - Warning for All Those Who are Light Sensitive

[Ronin.7381]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> I guess OP never step a foot in the WvW visual clutter skill spam... after Pof

 

Or seen the Season Finale of Stranger Things Season 1, I don't suffer and man was that hard to watch in those final minutes. Ooof

[FaboBabo.3581]

New option ; disable Photo sensity effects.

 

Jobs done .

 

 

Will it be introduced? Hell no too much work, buy mount skin pliz

[castlemanic.3198]

I don't suffer from those kinds of issues, so it's impossible for me to imagine where the line separates "okay" from "seizure inducing" (especially since i play on a potato), so I'm gonna trust you all who do notice this stuff and throw my support in for some kind of special effects filter. The community shouldn't need to continually ask for special consideration with regards to a very serious issue, ArenaNet should have made special considerations when they were first pointed out. Please ArenaNet, do something about this.

[CharJC.8365]

I agree with the OP, veteran gw2 player here I have not had a problem till recently with LS4. I had to actually quit the game and come back about 4 hours later with 4 Tylenol in my system. Now don't get me wrong, I like the flashiness of the game, the shines, but kitten is it getting over done more and more now. I DID find a work around, though I do believe Anet should really introduce a slider to TONE DOWN the effects so its not a constant rave party. My solution, I use GemFX and I basically had the bloom and contrast turned to zero... ZERO. Sigh, looked like kitten but at least it wasn't causing my eyes to bleed, and afterwards returned my graphics to normal.

 

Please Anet, consider a slider, a tab, 2000 gems for aspirin, something.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

I wear special glasses that block the blue light so it never bothered me. Before this glasses, I used to get nauseated on blurring lights (e.g. lightspeed effect) and flashing lights (e.g. gunfire). Some flashing lights still bothers me, but so far, none of the LS4 lights. So far.

[Zaklex.6308]

Unfortunately, I'll have to disagree with the OP, even as a suffer of epilepsy(which one of my sons also has, only a higher degree) never have either one of us been bothered by the flashing lights in GW2 or any other game for that matter. Not only that, but I'm sensitive to bright lights, I get headaches at work from the glare in the fall and winter time from the stupid parking garage across the street, but video games don't bother me. Do I agree that it bothers some people, yes, but have you considered turning down the brightness or putting a screen filter on to do the same?

 

As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

 

 

[etsubmariner.4690]

I'm not sure how you can disagree with the OP Zaklex when the OP just wants a graphics slider that manages that item. You disagree that some players should have an option that has zero effect on your gameplay to tone down the graphic nonsense on screen? How is that possible?

 

As for the seriousness of the Storm, I'm not seeing much seriousness to the Brandstorm when each of the characters is delivering one-liners every other moment. No, this is a thread about helping some players have something in-game that tones down this shite. yes, something in-game with Anet recognizing and acknowledging that all that visual sawdust might be bad for some players eyesight/sanity/health. If you aren't, great. Some of us are, and we expect Anet to do something about it whether it effects your game or not. We want you to play. We want to play. We would love a slider that you can completely ignore, but if it comes to it, we'll take a game that tones it down whether you can control it or not. Now THAT, you can disagree with. :)

[mikansei.5742]

> @Zaklex.6308 said:

> As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

>

>

A game's visuals are _never_ more important than the seizure risk.

[Umut.5471]

I don't have any health problem related to epilepsy or a similar disease. But it wasn't an enjoyable situation to watch all those flashing lights. Sometimes it was even hard to notice the damage circles on the ground. I really thought what would happen to those people with epilepsy.

[lokh.2695]

Not suffering from the seizures. Still I think they overdone it with the flashing lights, the AoEs of all different colors, shapes and sizes and enemy attacks that hurl you around at the same time. There's that one boss in particular that also jumps around like crazy in the tiny indoor arena that it's set in while plastering the ground with the colors of the rainbow in a wide array of different attacks of course.

 

I can get behind "harder content, i.e. more mechanics that hit harder etc. and i understand that there need to be different telegraphs for those important atacks, so you can learn which circles to ignore which lines can be deadly and so on. But there has to be a different, more subtle way of doing these mechanical things. It would be nice if we had the option to tune the effects and markers down to a more technical level.

[JustTrogdor.7892]

Seems something Anet still has not understood after all these years. You don't need super exploding, flash bang, blinking, disco, fire blast all over the screen to make a fight interesting. But they still do it for some reason. At this point in GW2 when I see such stuff I don't think, "Wow this is totally epic with all the effects." I think," Wow all these effects are really over the top. I wish I could just see what is going on without getting a headache."

[Aerlen.5326]

> @Ronin.7381 said:

> > @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > I guess OP never step a foot in the WvW visual clutter skill spam... after Pof

>

> Or seen the Season Finale of Stranger Things Season 1, I don't suffer and man was that hard to watch in those final minutes. Ooof

 

I've done both.

 

With WvW, I tend to just babysit yaks. If a zerg gets too much, I can leave. My progression doesn't depend on me enduring it. I mean it sucks if I'm having fun but it's nothing that will rob me of story progression, new maps, new items, and lore. I'm pretty good about withstanding a lot of effects, it has to be 100% over the top to get me sick and angry. I've done the Sunspear events in Istan and, despite lots of circles and effects, I've been fine. They aren't flashing at the frequency to hurt. Only open world thing I can think of is one of the Highland bounties and everyone was ill from that. The flashing and exploding was why we failed to kill it too.

 

Stranger Things, I could look away when it got to be too much (and it really was - oh my gawd WHHHHYYYY WHHHYYYYY). No reason for me to have to stare directly at it as if I were playing a game (but holy heck, I was like "okay, everyone in the room died of flashing lights migraines, this is my new headcanon). To be fair though... I knew about that way ahead of time so when it started, I was like "Okay... look away if it's too bad.".

 

> @etsubmariner.4690 said:

> As for the seriousness of the Storm, I'm not seeing much seriousness to the Brandstorm when each of the characters is delivering one-liners every other moment. No, this is a thread about helping some players have something in-game that tones down this kitten. yes, something in-game with Anet recognizing and acknowledging that all that visual sawdust might be bad for some players eyesight/sanity/health. If you aren't, great. Some of us are, and we expect Anet to do something about it whether it effects your game or not. We want you to play. We want to play. We would love a slider that you can completely ignore, but if it comes to it, we'll take a game that tones it down whether you can control it or not. Now THAT, you can disagree with. :)

 

See, I agree and also... they could easily tone down the frequency of the flashing lights without eliminating one bit of the atmosphere. Must it be so quick and so fast? Why? You could accomplish the same thing with less frames and a slightly lower frequency. Is it the pulsing lights that convey the dire situation or is it the sounds of the dragon and wyvern fighting in the purple painted sky along with the crackles up above, the urgency in the voice of your character and the NPCs, and the panicked citizens everywhere? I did the Balthazar fight in PoF which has many many effects but I didn't get a migraine because they were not flashing/strobing/exploding at the speed and frequency that would set one off (and Anet? Good job. That fight was tough. A+ - looking forward to repeating). I know they can adapt things - look at the mount movement options we got because some players (me included) got motion sick in the beta. New option. No more motion sickness.

 

> @JustTrogdor.7892 said:

> Seems something Anet still has not understood after all these years. You don't need super exploding, flash bang, blinking, disco, fire blast all over the screen to make a fight interesting. But they still do it for some reason. At this point in GW2 when I see such stuff I don't think, "Wow this is totally epic with all the effects." I think," Wow all these effects are really over the top. I wish I could just see what is going on without getting a headache."

 

I call it "The Michael Bay Philosophy".

[lynspottery.6529]

> @Umut.5471 said:

> I don't have any health problem related to epilepsy or a similar disease. But it wasn't an enjoyable situation to watch all those flashing lights. Sometimes it was even hard to notice the damage circles on the ground. I really thought what would happen to those people with epilepsy.

 

 

^^this. I have sensitivity to light issues and normally I have my graphics turned down so as not to have problems, but even with my current settings, that LS4 intro instance gave me nausea. I am not looking forward to completing the rest of this story but because I like GW2 I shall........on ONE character only. Forget my alts doing those stories.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how this type of game design continues, even when folks ask for an option to tone it down for themselves. Asking for a slider or a click box to opt out of those over-the-top graphic effects, would not hurt anyone if made available for those who want it. After all, most games already have color blind options so why not add this into that category as well?

 

So Anet, how about it? Folks are not asking for a complete stop to these effects that your designers seem to love so much, just a way to tone them down for themselves, without affecting anyone else who does want those effects active.

[Ayakaru.6583]

While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

[Aerlen.5326]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> While I emphatize.. emphasize.. have empathy with the people who are prone to seizures, I do also believe theres a small bubble of common sense, namely that just like a legless person should reconsider doing a marathon (not that they can’t), a seizure prone person should always consider playing a video game since flashy lights are quite often a medium of animation, especially if it involves magic.

 

Not when 3 years of said game contained no such triggers and they are not common-place. Trust me, if during Karka Free To Play Weekend in 2012 I would have seen content like the first LW S4 episode - I would not have bought the game. I would have gone back to WoW and Second Life and left GW2 for people who like their eyeballs melted. I do not continue to play things that show me from the start they have Michael Bay disease.

 

I'm also going to say this again since people miss it - the trigger for me and others is extremely specific. It's a specific speed, frequency, and overabundance of flashing/strobing/exploding lights. So while someone say using 80 tomes of knowledge and doing the level up flash is going to do absolutely nothing, ten rapidly flashing lightning strikes with ten AoE circles plus background pulsing and strobing in the span of a minute is going to set it off every time. It's not every effect. It's specific ones. Specific ones that are rarely used EXCEPT in story instances. As a gamer of almost 40 years, I can only name maybe 8 games I've played that did this out of 300+. Guild Wars 2 is one of them, most of the others are old 80's arcade games and that Polybius rom (which was intended to do that - it's Polybius. Seriously. The whole urban legend is about a game making people sick from visuals). A better example would be to tell someone who gets sick if they see Chubacabra to never watch television because one might unexpectedly pop up and they can't blame the media for using it because television is a medium of fantasy. How many TV shows use a Chubacabra to warrant someone needing to avoid all media? And what about those without health issues who have gotten ill or gotten a headache from this instance? I mean.. should they have expected eye melting effects by virtue of this being a video game? This is like blaming the Japanese kids that got sick from Electric Solider Porygon and telling it was their fault for watching a cartoon (That one makes the end of Stranger Things look tame BTW, I survived like 2 seconds and noped out).

 

It's too much. It's too extreme. Cut it out or provide a slider. That's it. Issue solved. Slider means everyone is super happy, everyone wins. Cutting down on SE temporarily while they develop a slider works too. I understand my anger in the first post was extreme - no I don't want everyone deprived of the effects they like. I just want the choice to skip them.

[etsubmariner.4690]

Powered through this for a second time by looking down all the time. The boss fight has way too many knockdowns/backs and simply adds more visual nonsense to the screen. For those who disagree or claim to empathize (but then request a reality check/common sense), you aren't paying attention. The OP wants a slider. You can ignore the slider. That's the reality check, and the normal expected adult response to the request for a slider to reduce these visual effects is to agree that an optional slider is a damn great idea.

[Ceridwen.6703]

Hey all! Just thought I'd chime in, as the friendly neighbourhood photo-sensitive epileptic. :D

 

I want to advise that each epileptic person has different yet specific triggers for their condition, which is why it can be difficult to provide a fix - but a slider and even optional effects, or alternative effect notifications are the current best way for a game to provide accessibility. Also, whilst some of you may have only recently come across issues in GW2, I can say for me, they're not entirely new (snowblind fractal, CoF dungeon, flamethrowers, the Evil Dwayna Statue of Eye-Ow all equal bad). They are, however, progressively getting worse, this brandstorm nonsense being the latest in said progression.

 

I managed to do it, but I'll admit there's about 30 seconds or a minute against the wyvern I don't actually recall. :/ I only played a little while after (enough to get to Istan, and finally! 20k achievement points), but have not been back since Tuesday. I broke my eyes (I have dry eyes in addition to PSE), and whilst I wanted to post in this thread yesterday, it wasn't possible due to my eyes. Don't know if I'll be able to finish the story any time soon, or even if I should.

 

I've been playing this game since headstart, and have managed more in it than I'd previously thought possible. - I don't drive in RL, but I can hop on my griffon in-game. I can't glide in RL, but I can in-game. It gives somewhere for my imagination to literally take flight, something I won't always get a chance to do for real. Now I'm asking Anet, *again*, to go further than this: to be more thoughtful towards disabled people like me and some of the other posters in this thread with your game design. You may talk the talk (Taimi), but in the end, you have to walk the walk. Make your game truly accessible to disabled people (not just the sort in discussed in this thread, but all sorts). You can only reap the benefits of doing so.

[lynspottery.6529]

I really would like to see an Anet rep drop in here to review our postings. I think this is of major importance considering the fact that many disabled folks (and many not disabled) have issues with over-the-top graphic effects. I do not understand why the effects are so horrible.

[Menadena.7482]

> @mikansei.5742 said:

> > @Zaklex.6308 said:

> > As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

> >

> >

> A game's visuals are _never_ more important than the seizure risk.

 

Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

 

To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

 

[Menadena.7482]

> @Ceridwen.6703 said:

> Hey all! Just thought I'd chime in, as the friendly neighbourhood photo-sensitive epileptic. :D

>

> I want to advise that each epileptic person has different yet specific triggers for their condition, which is why it can be difficult to provide a fix - but a slider and even optional effects, or alternative effect notifications are the current best way for a game to provide accessibility. Also, whilst some of you may have only recently come across issues in GW2, I can say for me, they're not entirely new (snowblind fractal, CoF dungeon, flamethrowers, the Evil Dwayna Statue of Eye-Ow all equal bad). They are, however, progressively getting worse, this brandstorm nonsense being the latest in said progression.

>

> I managed to do it, but I'll admit there's about 30 seconds or a minute against the wyvern I don't actually recall. :/ I only played a little while after (enough to get to Istan, and finally! 20k achievement points), but have not been back since Tuesday. I broke my eyes (I have dry eyes in addition to PSE), and whilst I wanted to post in this thread yesterday, it wasn't possible due to my eyes. Don't know if I'll be able to finish the story any time soon, or even if I should.

>

> I've been playing this game since headstart, and have managed more in it than I'd previously thought possible. - I don't drive in RL, but I can hop on my griffon in-game. I can't glide in RL, but I can in-game. It gives somewhere for my imagination to literally take flight, something I won't always get a chance to do for real. Now I'm asking Anet, *again*, to go further than this: to be more thoughtful towards disabled people like me and some of the other posters in this thread with your game design. You may talk the talk (Taimi), but in the end, you have to walk the walk. Make your game truly accessible to disabled people (not just the sort in discussed in this thread, but all sorts). You can only reap the benefits of doing so.

 

My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

[Lilyanna.9361]

I am not proned to seizures, but holy crap.

 

Sometimes I get REALLY scared for it. I can play any games. And have. No problem. But for some reason the newer graphics in gw2 now have really either been killing my eyes or making me naseauted to the point where I have to tell my boyfriend that I need a break in between each instance. I dread it especially because I have anxiety and everytime I think about even having a slight chance of getting seizures (anxiety riddled brain is so fun) it's over for me.

 

I can PVP, WvW, and do all of that. But when it comes to the newer instances I physically just can't. I'm getting this close to not even bothering with the stories anymore because of it and just because some new animator wants to 'try' things out.

 

Just stop it Anet. Get your old animator back and lets have the nice, muted colors, solid animations you used to have. Not the damn two or three toned bangs, or constantly flickering lightning. It's annoying, it hurts, and it is really getting me to not want to even focus on the story anymore.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

> @Menadena.7482 said:

> > @mikansei.5742 said:

> > > @Zaklex.6308 said:

> > > As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

> > >

> > >

> > A game's visuals are _never_ more important than the seizure risk.

>

> Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

>

> To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

>

 

All the sound and fury going on in that instance doesn't even convey a sense of urgency to me. It was more of a "what the ... is going on there? I better watch my step and take it slowly."

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> > @Menadena.7482 said:

> > > @mikansei.5742 said:

> > > > @Zaklex.6308 said:

> > > > As for toning it down, that won't work, it no longer would convey the seriousness of the situation nor would it create urgency, both of which you should be feeling from the intensity of the storm...that's what the effects are supposed to be for, not just visual clutter.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > A game's visuals are _never_ more important than the seizure risk.

> >

> > Exactly. Also if you have to rely on only one communications mode to convey urgency you are doing things wrong and need to learn design.

> >

> > To bring it to something I am more familiar with a website should not ONLY use color to convey meaning (ie, red for bad and green for good). What if the person is color blind? What if they associate different things with those colors? So saying a game needs a certain light effect to convey something is pure laziness. You have dialogue. You have sound. You have obvious urgency from the NPCs. You have a task list in the upper right on your screen. You have the fact that there are a bunch of unfriendlies running around shooting at you. If none of those (or some combo) does not convey urgency a light show will not help.

> >

>

> All the sound and fury going on in that instance doesn't even convey a sense of urgency to me. It was more of a "what the ... is going on there? I better watch my step and take it slowly."

 

To me it did not say "go slowly". I automatically did not look at the worst of it (although unfortunately you have to a bit to spot those kittening purple on purple on purple on purple on purple gems) but picked up MORE than enough signals that now would not be a good time to stop and sort my inventory.

[Ceridwen.6703]

> @Menadena.7482 said:

>

> My big trigger is stress ... however that can range from everything from missing a medication dose to having a program I wrote fail at the worst possible time. All sorts of factors are involved in whether the stress will trigger a seizure or not although the stressors are additive. Light shows by themselves do not seem to do it for me but I avoid them in case my system treats it as yet another form of stress. Which means PSE warnings do not help me at all even if they were not so abused. My living involves computers and anything on a monitor could theoretically cause a person with PSE to have a seizure so I just am careful around any known stuff.

 

Stress being a causal factor for seizures is definitely an issue some wouldn't consider. I can well imagine you running into potential difficulties in game, particularly if you feel you have to complete an instance quickly or every NPC is going to be a crystalpop, and you don't get a shiny achievement if you don't do something in a horribly tight time frame ( don't know if you're like me, but my epilepsy does not prevent me from enjoying shiny achievements - although I usually ignore timer based stuff because I don't need to cause myself more hassle than necessary).

 

Again, I simply ask Anet to consider players with disabilities. How about doing some kind of private contact form where we can tell you how you could make your game more accessible for us? We'd love to help you help us!

[Fremtid.3528]

wow i am loving the lack of empathy in this thread. You guys are the epitome of the internet.