About Warden Amala, Dervish and Balthazar[PoF and Daybreak spoiler]

[Kossage.9072]

This is what Peter Fries said in a tweet about Awakened Amala channeling Balthazar:

 

> She isn't channeling Balthazar, she's channeling Joko's power in a way that in life she would have channeled Balthazar [source](

)

 

As for the state of Menzies and the Eternal Battle, we may have another clue from Scott McGough in a reddit comment:

 

> Balth the god of war had been more or less idle since the Exodus, with very little in the way of human contact or terrestrial combat. He's a fiery god of action and he was champing at the bit for the chance to do what he was born to do (as he sees it). [source](

)

 

For Balthazar to be "more or less idle" means that there may have been a change in the status of the Eternal Battle for him to feel bored and want get back into action when the Elder Dragons provided him with that chance for glorious combat. Whether this means Menzies was slain/imprisoned or fled somewhere beyond Balthazar's reach, however, is unknown at this time.

 

Personally I hope Menzies hasn't been dealt with off screen as he has potential to be at least a raid boss if not more. It would be interesting to learn more about his and Balthazar's lineage and how exactly Menzies became such a powerful opponent to Balthazar to begin with if that story is ever touched upon. :)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"nihavel.6592" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

>

> > Yes. So was I.

> >

> > We kill Varesh, we see her body disappear. Then she comes back in her "Margonite with a skin face" form.

> >

> > That's not a dervish avatar form. She was turned into an actual Margonite.

>

> You're confusing with commander Varesh.

> https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gwwikia/images/f/f9/Commander_Varesh.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061228164144

>

> Prophet Varesh had tecnically Abaddon avatar 'cause was a dervish who workships Abaddon for 3/4 of the game.

 

I actually am not. Prophet Varesh was not an avatar. It was her slowly becoming transformed into a Margonite.

 

The only difference between "Prophet Varesh" and "Warmarshal Varesh" is paler skin and four bumps that would soon become eyes. That isn't an avatar, which takes on the full scale appearance of a god, even going so far as to changing your apparent gender.

 

If Varesh was using an "Avatar of Abaddon" skill, she would have tentacle hair more than likely and be a dude during that time.

 

> @"nihavel.6592" said:

> Infact I said there are more Gods, not only the six.

> Menzies, Balthazar and Dhumm are evil gods.

> We Know 1/3 of all the world, maybe there are other gods in the world.

> Mellegan maybe is another one, maybe not. Quaggans say she's dead but Melandru is alive. This confirm they are two entity. But Quaggans are quaggans so maybe Mellagan is a shoe.

> Arenanet has a wide open door about the gods.

>

> The six are the benevolent Gods. Tyrian pray for them.

> So 250 years ago the the benevolent Gods were five.

> And I suppose, about Kormir's quote, we have an Unknow God, who trust in Tyrians (or if Menzies got Balthazar's role, he become neutral.) cause she said they are always six.

> The five/Six are just a title. Even Kormir said that.

>

> Kormir explain us because war between Gods is a bad thing for about 5/10 minute and she is pretty angry when we ask her help about fighting another god.

> It's a littler more of a "Just a dramatic flare".

> And nowhere someone prove Balthazar isn't a god.

> We know only Balthazar lose his power.

 

* Menzies is not a god. Never once even implied to be a demigod let alone a god. We don't know what he is.

* Dhuum is not a god. Dhuum *was* a god. Pretty big difference there. He is never once referred to as a god - beyond in the past tense - in either game.

* There are gods beyond The Six, yes, but The Six are called such because there are six of those gods, and those gods have very specific attributes that Balthazar lacks in S3/PoF - least of all being the blinding bit.

* Yes, there are other gods, but they are wholly unrelated to the Six Gods, unlike Balthazar, Abaddon, and Dhuum who are/were part of the Six Gods pantheon. It's like saying "there are norse gods and there are greek gods so a greek god that is no longer an Olympian is still a god" - it's a false equivalence argument. We do not know what makes those other gods to be "gods", but we do know what makes the Six to be "gods".

* The Six Gods are **NOT** benevolent. While they do veer towards good, as they tend to outcast and replace their evil members, their pantheon is not innately benevolent. [Even Dwayna has a dark side](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Parables_of_the_Gods).

* The Five/Six is more than "just a title". It's divinity. One can only be a god of the Six if they have that divinity, that power which was released upon Abaddon's death, the power which blinds mortals who looks upon gods. We do not know if other gods have this, but losing this means losing divinity - losing godhood.

* Saying that fighting Balthazar is a "war between gods" is indeed dramatic flare given that he lost his divinity, his power, his godhood. **This is the entire purpose behind Flashpoint.** Balthazar himself says he lost his divinity:

 

Balthazar: They abated me, dimmed my light... But they will see me now.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heart_of_the_Volcano_%28story%29

 

So do the developers of the game:

 

[...] it's important to remember that Balthazar's power level is not at the same level when the other gods **stripped him of his power** and chained him in the Mists. The power he wields in PoF is what he's regained since absorbing a bloodstone and Taimi's machine.

 

 

If [the unique power is what makes a god](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Abaddon%27s_Gate#End_cinematic) (both the act of absorbing power turning Kormir into a god, and the fact a mortal could become a god, proves this) and he was stripped of his power, as well as his title as god of the Six, then he was stripped of his godhood.

 

Just like Dhuum.

 

Unlike Abaddon.

 

This is why we are not blinded when looking upon Balthazar but we are when looking at Kormir. Mortals go blind when looking upon a god. This is why the power Balthazar unleashed at the end of Path of Fire was not threatening to destroy everything like with Abaddon. Because it was the power of a Bloodstone and two Elder Dragons, not a god.

 

He was no longer a god. Not just "he was no longer of the Six", but "he was no longer a god in general".

 

But his nature, whatever that be - demigod perhaps - allowed him to do more than what mortals could do. And the same goes for Dhuum.

 

**TL;DR**

 

"God" in GWverse is more than just being insanely power, but is not tied to biology. Given Dhuum and Balthazar, becoming a god changes one's physiology, but losing the power that turned them into a god in the first place makes them no longer a god, but they are not mortal again either - they would be best defined as a demigod.

 

Balthazar lost his power. The Six's power is their godhood. Ergo he lost his godhood.

 

Simple logic here.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Kossage.9072" said:

> > Balth the god of war had been more or less idle since the Exodus, with very little in the way of human contact or terrestrial combat. He's a fiery god of action and he was champing at the bit for the chance to do what he was born to do (as he sees it). [source](

)

>

> For Balthazar to be "more or less idle" means that there may have been a change in the status of the Eternal Battle for him to feel bored and want get back into action when the Elder Dragons provided him with that chance for glorious combat. Whether this means Menzies was slain/imprisoned or fled somewhere beyond Balthazar's reach, however, is unknown at this time.

>

> Personally I hope Menzies hasn't been dealt with off screen as he has potential to be at least a raid boss if not more. It would be interesting to learn more about his and Balthazar's lineage and how exactly Menzies became such a powerful opponent to Balthazar to begin with if that story is ever touched upon. :)

 

The problem with that line and conclusion is that the Eternal Battle - and in turn Menzies' well being - was very much active during GW1, which was only 250 years ago and well after (by 1,070 years) the Exodus.

 

Balthazar may not have been partaking in the Eternal Battle though, but that would mean a change in the Eternal Battle wouldn't really be needed to make him want to go after the Elder Dragons.