Kossage.9072

> @"TeeracK.3601" said: > It's just a thought I had. Jormag always lies and manipulates people. Jormag said they and Primordus are twin dragons. Baladazar had lyssa's mirror and was kind of crazed with vengeance over killing the dragons. What if what he meant when he said "they've dimmed my light" he was being metaphorical meaning they killed the person he loved Lyssa? :open_mouth: Regarding Jormag and lies, interestingly narrative director Tom Abernathy tweeted this a few months ago: > **Tom Abernathy:** Said it before and I’ll say it again: Jormag is 100% sincere in saying they love Tyria and want nothing more than to fortify and protect it. Jormag doesn’t lie. That’s part of their strength. [(Source)]( ) So if Jormag has not lied, or at least perceives its persuasive words as not lying, it makes Jormag's past interactions with mortals most interesting as we have to look at its words and actions from a new point of view. Then again, this revelation has not yet appeared in game where several characters still believe Jormag to be a liar, so it remains to be seen when and how it gets addressed. :)

At least we have a general idea of what these two Firstborn looked like and what their professions may have been. While battling the vision of the Blighted Pale Tree in "Hearts and Minds", we see her summoning Firstborn to her side. There are 12 Firstborn with nine of them resembling the Firstborn we know. The unknown ones are a [female archer](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Firstborn_Sniper_(Unknown).jpg), a [scholarly male](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Firstborn_Tormentor_(Unknown_alt).jpg), and an [armored male](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Firstborn_Tormentor_(Unknown).jpg). Given that the present day Malomedies does not appear among these 12 Firstborn during the battle, I'd say that the scholarly male would be what Malomedies looked like before he was tortured by the asura; we know that sylvari looks can change in response to trauma (see e.g. Caithe's hairstyle change to honor Wynne, Faolain switching between her branchy look in S2 flashbacks and GW2 and Caithe-imitating looks in *Edge of Destiny*, and Canach becoming more thorny after being hunted by the Consortium). So, it's possible that the missing Firstborn could've experienced traumas during their journeys so their appearances would've changed from those original looks over the years (thus allowing the devs to give them new looks in future content if they so wanted). It's likely that these two missing Firstborn (a female and a male) are traveling abroad. After all, Caithe and Faolain were driven by wanderlust in their early years, and even Aife confessed to having traversed significant distances, even claiming to have visited the "great desert", most likely referencing the Crystal Desert: > **Player:** Have you traveled to many places? > **Aife:** Oh, yes—Lion's Arch, the Maguuma Wastes, the great desert...the world is wider than you can dream, Valiant. [(Source)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Heart_of_Nightmare) A fun idea I had was that maybe the female archer could've run into Knut Whitebear's adventuring wife, the enchantress [Gaerta Whitebear](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gaerta_Whitebear), in the far north, and they formed a dynamic duo (similar to the more villainous duo of the norn shaman [Vilnia Shadowsong](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vilnia_Shadowsong) and the sylvari [Noxia](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Noxia)--I'd love to see these two villainesses return as they survived the encounter with traveling heroes!) in case this Firstborn wanted to learn about adventure from one of the renowned adventurers of her time. I could imagine Gaerta, who is also driven by wanderlust, eventually warming up to this curious Firstborn while taking her under her wing as a squire of sorts, and perhaps each woman could teach the other about life and adventure in general while bonding in the process (as a more benevolent version of the Riannoc+Waine partnership). It's possible that we might encounter one of these two missing Firstborn in a potential future storyline revolving around the enigmatic sylvari [Malyck](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malyck) and the second Pale Tree. Perhaps the armored male encountered Malyck and stayed with him to learn about Malyck's people (if any of them survived, as Malyck was seemingly disconnected from his grove's Dream) while he in turn could help temper Malyck's anger and feelings of vengeance. As for the cycles these Firstborn would belong to, we can make some educated guesses based on the characteristics of the current Firstborn using the wiki's [Firstborn](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Firstborn) page as a basis. It seems that there'd be an equal number of the four cycles divided between the 12 Firstborn, which means one cycle per three Firstborn. So it'd go: Dawn (Aife, very likely Dagonet due to him being a diplomat, and an unknown), Noon (Niamh, very likely Riannoc due to him being a knight, and an unknown), Dusk (Faolain, Kahedins, Trahearne), and Night (Caithe, Malomedies, Wynne). This would suggest that the missing Firstborn are most likely of the Dawn and Noon cycles. The Dawn Firstborn would be, as per the sylvari [biography](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Biography#Sylvari) options, a "natural talker, diplomat, and forward-thinker, intimately connected with their surroundings and markedly empathic toward all, even other races", while the Noon Firstborn would "solve problems by attacking them head-on, be a warrior, hunter, and traveler who experiences life first-hand and enjoys the rush of taking risks in order to feel truly alive". As it happens, both of those personality types would fit easily into my proposed "thrilling northern adventure with Gaerta" (Noon) and a diplomatic mission to Malyck's Grove (Dawn) although those could easily be reversed too: the Dawn sylvari might be the diplomatic, tender hand to temper Gaerta's impulses, while the Noon sylvari would be the adventurous kind assisting Malyck and his people against the threats looming around Malyck's Grove (potentially the remaining Mordrem and whatever other threats emerge). So, there are many ways the story could go, and the missing Firstborn could play such a wide variety of roles. The examples I presented are just two out of many; after all, if Aife truly traveled to Elona and back before Kralkatorrik's rise blocked the land route south, who knows what adventures the unknown female and male Firstborn must have had over these past few decades depending on when they last returned to the Grove (assuming that they are still alive, of course). :)

The latest update about centaurs comes from Champions Chapter 1: Truce. After completing the "Primordus Rising" story step, various NPCs phase into Eye of the North, and the new NPCs located near the asura gate actually have cycling ambient dialogue which we've been recording on [this page](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hall_of_Monuments#Ambient_dialogue) in the wiki. The relevant conversation about centaurs goes as follows: > **Krewe Leader (1):** Primordus's destroyers are pushing the centaurs out of their lands. > **Krewe Leader (2):** Better not pick a fight with a centaur today. > **Krewe Leader (1):** It was one time! And I was drunk! Given the current destroyer problem that the centaurs face after having already been driven into a corner due to suffering lots of losses both in Ulgoth's war as well as in the failed Siege of Divinity's Reach, this might be a great moment for Jormag and its diplomats to reach out to the weary centaurs with promises of power and protection. While shamanistic tendencies are waning among the centaurs, Jormag could appeal to both the centaurs' spiritual side as well as their earthly desire for survival and revenge by offering to protect them if they accept its icy empowering blessings as well as present itself as a spirit of the land who sees centaurs as worthy inheritors of the earth due to their way of life. The problem with this approach would of course be the centaurs' hatred of humanity while Jormag obviously wants its allies to get along (for now) in the spirit of cooperation without angering any party via needless acts of violence. We've seen Jormag's corruption warp racial supremacists' minds without those mortals necessarily even realizing it (see e.g. the Dominion wanting to exterminate or subjugate what they consider to be "lesser races", while Frost Legion are openly offering humans like Kasmeer a chance to accept Jormag's blessings and join their legion in a twisted way as we learn in the Frost Citadel meta dialogue), so perhaps any "Frost Legion" centaurs would just automatically drop their human-hating ideology and embrace "ice fortifies all races under Jormag's wing" creed. > **Elite Frost Legion Musketeer:** Bangar ordered me to keep all intruders out of the conversion chamber! > **Elite Frost Legion Musketeer:** Unless maybe you want to join us? > **Lady Kasmeer Meade:** Not my type, thanks. Efram, Ember? How do we stop the big tank? > **Efram Greetsglory:** First things first. Everyone scatter! > **Elite Frost Legion Musketeer:** You'd rather run around like skritt than join the toughest legion in Tyria? Fine, have it your way! [(Source)](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_the_Ruinbringer) Whether the non-corrupted centaurs would take such a jarring shift in their frosty brethren's opinion well remains to be seen if some of them did take Jormag's offer in their desperation. It's possible that at least some centaurs may see the light in the current crisis and approach the Pact with a truce against a common enemy before the Centaur Alliance itself (and particularly their youths) is wiped out, but that depends on if Jormag has any plans in mind for the centaurs or other races while building its army beyond what we've seen of its collaboration with the asura so far. :)

Interestingly if we select Crecia once she appears as an NPC around the EotN war table after "Primordus Rising" story step, she has the title Acting Blood Legion Imperator. I could've sworn she was just called Blood Imperator when "Champions" first released and the title was subtly changed since, but I didn't have any screenshots of her title from that time. What I've seen is that her title's been changing between Blood Legion Imperator, Imperator of Blood Legion, and Acting Blood Legion Imperator. I hope the devs have chosen a title that sticks for now rather than moving between these variants depending on what instance she appears in. As for the legitimacy as imperator, it's hard to say for sure if that old blog post's lore about imperators needing to be direct Khan-Ur descendants and having Blood, Ash etc. in their name was ever considered to be canonical even though it was written from an authoritative standpoint. Ever since the narrative team comment "All lore is malleable" from Season1/2 days on the old forums, players have had to reevaluate dev statements during blog posts, interviews, videos, guild chats etc. During Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee's tenure lore consistency ruled but as they gradually distanced themselves and let others take the lead during Season 1 time and beyond, the rules of what should and shouldn't be considered canon became more flexible. Basically since those days, the golden rule by devs has been that what's in the game overrules any other statements made elsewhere if there are contradictions, so in-game canon overrules interview/guild chat canon as the devs might be misremembering lore during such segments etc. This is fair, though, considering how vast Tyrian lore, so I wouldn't be surprised if the charr blog post's suggested ideas underwent changes over the years. With that said, I do like that Crecia is now listed as Acting Blood Legion Imperator, which means her title isn't final and there's still the issue of who succeeds Bangar. While Crecia was the primus inter pares among the tribunes due to essentially being Bangar's right paw, her Flame Legion heritage may be a hindrance to her ascension. As we've seen with there being human haters in the allied Iron Legion, there's no doubt that the surviving Blood Legion members would have to consider their stance about Crecia's ascendancy and if they'd want someone with Flame heritage ruling Blood, especially if Cre can't prove being a descendant of the Khan-Ur (assuming that this rule was ever valid to begin with). However, looking at charr politics and how they operate, Julia Nardin did specifically state the charr legions being like the four Mongol hordes during the Toluid Civil War period and beyond: the sons of the Khan divided their father's empire into four autonomous khanates, each with a different ruler descended from the Khan. In Tyria, the culture and ideologies of the four charr legions are fundamentally different to this day, and each imperator is said to have their own city-stronghold from which they rule even though we've only visited two of them so far (Black Citadel, and Citadel of Flame...Frost Citadel is kind of an outlier due to circumstance). Another example for this charr nations' collaboration could be like the Iroquois League in its early decades: not quite a confederation yet but still the different factions/tribes are tied together enough to work together for a common goal while retaining their respective hierarchies. The legions and the imperators are collaborating and have even signed treaties to ensure cooperation, but that doesn't mean Iron has any say in Blood matters or vice versa regardless of what their imperators think (although there still is that unresolved mystery of whether Bangar or Smodur was the true mastermind behind Rytlock's demotion, arrest and tribunal in Season 3; if Smodur had had the authority to do such a thing to a Blood officer, Bangar could've declared war against him, and in Season 2 there was never any indication that Smodur and Rytlock had bad blood so that forced demotion and arrest, and Rytlock's reluctance to return to the Black Citadel, felt off unless he was aware that Bangar was behind it all somehow). While Bangar should've been bound by the treaty of non-aggression, he was still a legitimate imperator when he and his loyalist followers went rogue and when he deceived the rest of the legions (even though he claims he always spoke the truth despite funding Renegades behind everyone's back all along). The only "traitors" in this instance would be defectors from the other legions who joined his Dominion, while Crecia and her followers were the rebels who decided to rise up against their rightful imperator. The question thus becomes what happens to imprisoned imperators in charr society. Historically charr have been shown to slay anyone who's shown weakness (see e.g. Pyre Fierceshot executing a Flame shaman who was begging for his life), so there probably weren't many high-profile prisoners of war...at least not for long. Bangar being kept alive raises the question if he should still be considered the de facto imperator despite being beaten (technically he only lost the battle in the Frost Citadel because Jormag "subverted" his expectations when he had already incapacitated the Commander's team), or if there's some unknown charr law that allows him to be stripped from his title and claim now. We still don't know what the rest of the Stone Warband, and whatever other tribunes that remain besides Rytlock and Fierhan Sparwind think about these developments. Fierhan was suggested to be an old school charr loyal to Blood but presumably he's still alive in the Citadel; is he going to support Crecia or deny her right to ascend while referring to her Flame roots? It's possible that the rest of the Blood tribunes died during the civil war, leaving their primus centurions to ascend as new tribunes, but sadly we have little to no information about what's going on with the charr beyond a few teases in dialogue here and there. Regarding other would-be imperators, the game seems to suggest that Efram and Mia Kindleshot may be ascending as the new Flame and Iron Imperators. If the Khan-Ur descendant rule still applies, however, both of them would have to prove their legitimacy. Maybe Efram could be a descendant from a lesser bloodline (possibly even being related to Gaheron himself) while Mia might be revealed as Smodur's daughter. Still, there would be other claimants contesting them for their thrones. We still don't know if Crecia's evil shaman sire lives and if he leads some Flame faction not affiliated with Dominion, but there would be shamans or tribunes who would never accept Efram as the de facto imperator, especially when Efram only leads a splinter group of peace seekers that was significantly weakened by mass defections to Dominion. Lorewise Mia would be opposed by the popular Iron tribune Fume Brighteye who despises humans. Fume would no doubt have significant support as she's among the three most popular Iron tribunes, and we've seen in Drizzlewood ambient dialogue that several allied Iron charr openly mock and threaten their human allies, so the poison Smodur mentioned still runs deep in the legions. Maybe Fume could champion the idea that future imperators no longer need to be related to Khan-Ur and should rise at their own merits so Fume could use that clause to her benefit in case she has no way of proving her Khan-Ur bloodline. She could be using the likely popular state funerals (by pyre if charr still burn their dead) of Almorra and Smodur as a public political stage to rally mourning and vengeful charr (and maybe even some Vigil?) behind her with populist speech about bringing the murderer Ryland to justice for the two charr heroes' deaths and demanding Bangar to be released from Aurene's custody or else. Fume might also separate her politics from Bangar's Dominion by claiming that she only has beef with humans while being ok with having peaceful relations with asura, norn and sylvari so she wouldn't be alienating everyone with her hatemongering. As for the Khan-Ur candidates if there ever will be some, we know from *Ghosts of Ascalon* novel that the candidate has to earn support from all the legions, wield the Claw, potentially be related to Khan-Ur, *and* succeed at a specific military type of feat. The Flame Legion attempted this with finally taking over Ascalon City before the Foefire ruined the imperator's plans. Currently the only charr who has achieved truly great things (besides Smodur and Malice working for the peace treaty) would be Rytlock who's helped bring down three Elder Dragons, a deposed god, and a lich king. No matter what the other imperators do, they would never match Rytlock's feats. However, Rytlock isn't considered a typical charr anymore as he's fallen from his glory days by interacting too much with the other races, and he wouldn't want the position anyway even if he got unanimous support. As for Rytlock's other legitimacy concerns, it's curious how there's been lengthy history between him, Crecia and Bangar ever since the fahrar. Why would Bangar care for a random future tribune like Rytlock as to watch his progress from cubhood, so much so that Rytlock's speech post-confrontation in "Bad Blood" even implied that his relationship with Bangar may have not always been so sour at least in the early fahrar years. I wouldn't be surprised if Rytlock was revealed as Bangar's son, which would explain Bangar's abnormal obsession over him living up to the charr ideals and even being willing to let Rytlock kill him to prove a point. We've seen how obsessed Bangar is about his son Ajax after all these years, so it'd make sense for Bangar to harbor similar feelings for his "black sheep" son Rytlock if that's the case. The only true heir of the Khan-Ur left at this stage (if not counting the imprisoned Bangar) would be Malice. She has already played her cards right by making the three would-be imperators indebted to her: she helped Crecia with imperator business and showed her support for Cre, she accepted Efram's Flame into the United Legions and encouraged him with half-hearted comments, and she would no doubt be able to manipulate Mia from Iron too by revealing that she was the true force behind the Ebonhawke Treaty and not Smodur. With all her imperator rivals either dead or imprisoned with the other legions' leaders being indebted to her for her leadership, Malice just needs to acquire the Claw from Black Citadel, win the other legions over to accept her leadership, and perform a great enough feat to prove her worth. Perhaps slaying Jormag and/or Primordus would give her that authority if she actually desires the position of Khan-Ur. I could easily see Malice preferring to play the role of grey eminence as a shadowy power behind the throne while acting out the ostensible role of advisor/vizier, however, and install some gullible fool as a puppet Khan-Ur. It's been interesting that the Commander's lines in the aftermath of "A Simple Negotiation" had them question Malice not mourning Smodur's death. The dialogue was eerily similar to when the Commander began worrying about Smodur's ambitions in "A Race to Arms," so I wonder if this is one last red herring to make players distrust Malice until she proves yet again that she's no threat to us, or if this is actual foreshadowing that Malice can finally set her plans in motion now that all her rivals are gone. It was said to be rather suspicious how quickly Ryland located the camp to assassinate Smodur although Malice quickly brushed accusations aside by pointing out that finding the cave would've been inevitable. If the writers ever revealed Jormag having been behind Smodur's surprisingly disrespectful actions (him dissing the Commander and Rytlock, and executing a helpless prisoner during negotiations), it wouldn't be impossible for Jormag to also manipulate Malice's ambitions as well without Malice initially realizing it. So far Malice, apart from holding information from us and sending double agents without telling anyone, has shown herself to be worth her reputation as a seemingly honorable leader, but I can't help but wonder if we'll also see bits of a broken pedestal in her after the other three imperators have been dealt with. While the story of the charr seems to suggest, as per Crecia's dialogue, that the charr need a strong leader to unite them right now and that we may see a new Khan-Ur rise eventually, I wonder if the whole Khan-Ur stuff might be subverted and actually have the charr abolish it, and possibly the imperator titles, in the end if Malice's ambitions for the throne turn out to be just as dangerous as the other imperators'. Maybe the charr could smelt the Claw to destroy this priceless artifact and then declare that the charr should no longer follow the whims of bloodlines but build their own reputation with their strength and cunning. Maybe we could see the charr embracing the Roman Republic that preceded the Roman Empire: the charr senate could consist of tribunes and/or elected representatives from all charr social circles, including social pariahs like scrappers, gladia, and plebeians so every voice in the republic (from the downtrodden to the highly respected) can be heard in a mostly democratic fashion. Make these terms as senators temporary so there's a balance of power in check while each legion has more than one representative in this senate-council (to prevent another imperator wannabe from rising), and the charr might finally be able to move the legion rivalry behind and focus on using their respective strengths to their advantage to truly advance their society. :)

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > That said, I don't even remember a Meta that the Ebon Vanguard (with was named in the trailer) takes part in. The Ogre Wars meta in Fields of Ruin has considerable Ebon Vanguard presence although the Ebon Vanguard share the spotlight with the charr legions there as they assault the ogres of Foulbear Kraal together. :)