Anyone thought that Scourge need more buff on Barrier?

[MicROpart.7905]

Like Having more barrier share skill..maybe can put it on the utility skills like "Dessicate" or "Ghastly Breach" that applying barrier perpulse..and reducing the speed of the depleted Barrier, its to fast when it depleted..

[Vitali.5039]

To me they need more support effects but not baseline.

 

[Abrasive Gift](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abrasive_Gift)

_Granting an ally a barrier removes conditions affecting them and grants might. **Shroud Skill 2 now garant Alacrity.**_

 

Alacrity (2s): 33% Skill Recharge Rate.

2x Might (6s): +60 Power, +60 Condition Damage

Conditions Removed: 1

 

 

 

[Desert Empowerment](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Empowerment)

_Manifest Sand Shade grants a barrier to allies near it. **Your barriers grant increased damage.**_

 

Barrier: Damage 5%; Condition Damage 5%

Barrier: 1,050 (0.67)?

Number of Allied Targets: 3

Radius: 180

 

[intox.6347]

Y if scourge is "heavy support" rofl.... it must be really longer time to start deplete... also better scaling with healing

[santso.9201]

Sand flare actually has pretty decent scaling with healing Power, problem with support scourge is that for pve it doesnt bring any offensive buffs for the group(and if you take blood magic, your dps is very low) and for pvp/wvw as a support scourge dies too fast(you would need support to support you). +if you drop either curses or soul reaping for bm, you will lose lifeforce regen and dhuumfire or path of corruption. They should just make sand savant baseline(make torment trait to split shades) and give scourge actual support gm(the bottom one could also be changed to share those corrupted boons).

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

The bigger problem is, that the barriers are simply put useless. Whats the point in a 5k barrier when i can do 5k+ AUTO ATTACKS. That ability basically acts like a crappy version of Aegis, especially against the face melting attacks in the game. Aegis fully blocks them. Barrier will block a small part of it.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

While playing one...Yes

While fighting one...No

 

im 50/50 on this but slightly leaning toward no.

[KrHome.1920]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> The bigger problem is, that the barriers are simply put useless. Whats the point in a 5k barrier when i can do 5k+ AUTO ATTACKS. That ability basically acts like a crappy version of Aegis, especially against the face melting attacks in the game. Aegis fully blocks them. Barrier will block a small part of it.

Nah you are talking from a hardcounter class (Longbow Soulbeast) perspective. At ranges where the Scourge can apply weakness and is able to pressure the new 2s barrier decay is close to broken / OP.

 

For the Scourges opponent it feels much stronger now. A 5k barrier that starts to decay after you 've already eaten 2 ticks of condition damage is a lot, when your weakened 5k attack deals only 1,5k damage on a 30k HP Scourge.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> Nah you are talking from a hardcounter class (Longbow Soulbeast) perspective. At ranges where the Scourge can apply weakness and is able to pressure the new 2s barrier decay is close to broken / OP.

>

> For the Scourges opponent it feels much stronger now. A 5k barrier that starts to decay after you 've already eaten 2 ticks of condition damage is a lot, when your weakened 5k attack deals only 1,5k damage on a 30k HP Scourge.

 

Not even just Soulbeast. Ranger, Druid, Thief, Warrior. Anyone with ranged damage. A Power shatter will laugh at that 5k Barrier for example. Removing weakness is easy, removing conditions is easy when built for it. You only need a button press to be immune to conditions for several classes

 

 

[santso.9201]

> @KrHome.1920 said:

> > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > The bigger problem is, that the barriers are simply put useless. Whats the point in a 5k barrier when i can do 5k+ AUTO ATTACKS. That ability basically acts like a crappy version of Aegis, especially against the face melting attacks in the game. Aegis fully blocks them. Barrier will block a small part of it.

> Nah you are talking from a hardcounter class (Longbow Soulbeast) perspective. At ranges where the Scourge can apply weakness and is able to pressure the new 2s barrier decay is close to broken / OP.

>

> For the Scourges opponent it feels much stronger now. A 5k barrier that starts to decay after you 've already eaten 2 ticks of condition damage is a lot, when your weakened 5k attack deals only 1,5k damage on a 30k HP Scourge.

 

Doesnt change the fact that scourge needs buff in support traits and utilities to actually support. I mean if you compare scourge to firebrand, tempest, druid, chrono or even ventari rev as a support...

[Nimon.7840]

> @santso.9201 said:

> > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > > @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > > The bigger problem is, that the barriers are simply put useless. Whats the point in a 5k barrier when i can do 5k+ AUTO ATTACKS. That ability basically acts like a crappy version of Aegis, especially against the face melting attacks in the game. Aegis fully blocks them. Barrier will block a small part of it.

> > Nah you are talking from a hardcounter class (Longbow Soulbeast) perspective. At ranges where the Scourge can apply weakness and is able to pressure the new 2s barrier decay is close to broken / OP.

> >

> > For the Scourges opponent it feels much stronger now. A 5k barrier that starts to decay after you 've already eaten 2 ticks of condition damage is a lot, when your weakened 5k attack deals only 1,5k damage on a 30k HP Scourge.

>

> Doesnt change the fact that scourge needs buff in support traits and utilities to actually support. I mean if you compare scourge to firebrand, tempest, druid, chrono or even ventari rev as a support...

 

Just reworking the bloodmagic traits would do it. Some more buffs for the group, some dodges or real blocks on abilities. And scourge would be perfectly fine

[Kiroshima.8497]

F1 No longer causes torment and cripple, applies 1 bleed instead.

F2 should not convert conditions into boons, it should convert them into Barrier.

F3 Heals if the target has barrier already (still grants barrier too).

F4 Fear scales with the number of barriers on allies in the aoe.

F5 should not pulse torment, it should pulse barrier for allies.

 

Desert Empowerment: Your barriers protect boons, instead of being corrupted or stripped, they just lose 50% of their current duration.

Demonic Lore: Granting barrier to allies causes a tormenting and crippling pulse around them. (Aka current F1 damage). Enemies struck by this attack cannot gain barrier for 3 seconds.

Feed From Corruption: Corrupting or Removing boons from enemies grants you those boons and gives you barrier.

 

 

[Crinn.7864]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @KrHome.1920 said:

> > Nah you are talking from a hardcounter class (Longbow Soulbeast) perspective. At ranges where the Scourge can apply weakness and is able to pressure the new 2s barrier decay is close to broken / OP.

> >

> > For the Scourges opponent it feels much stronger now. A 5k barrier that starts to decay after you 've already eaten 2 ticks of condition damage is a lot, when your weakened 5k attack deals only 1,5k damage on a 30k HP Scourge.

>

> Not even just Soulbeast. Ranger, Druid, Thief, Warrior. Anyone with ranged damage. A Power shatter will laugh at that 5k Barrier for example. Removing weakness is easy, removing conditions is easy when built for it. You only need a button press to be immune to conditions for several classes

 

No not anyone with ranged damage. Only classes with ranged burst damage and enough range dictation to keep the scourge at range. The only real "counters" to scourge are p/p thief and LB ranger. All other ranged classes either lack the raw damage output to kill the scourge in a efficient manner, or lack the ranged dictation to prevent the scourge from closing with them and blowing their heads off.

 

Also do recall that Scourge is a 900 range class.

 

 

[Kain Francois.4328]

I think Scourge needs more buff on heals and support in general. The whole entire point of Scourge is the ability to spread your shades and support your allies in multiple locations at once, as opposed to something like Druid which heals only one location at once.

 

 

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @MicROpart.7905 said:

> Like Having more barrier share skill..maybe can put it on the utility skills like "Dessicate" or "Ghastly Breach" that applying barrier perpulse..and reducing the speed of the depleted Barrier, its to fast when it depleted..

 

Yeah the depletion speed is way too fast. With 2.5k barrier, the depletion speed is manageable with a depletion rate of ~800/s -- I prefer 750/s rate. However, with 5.5k barrier it's insanely fast with a depletion rate of ~1.8k/s. This is because the mechanic tries to remove the barrier within the 3 second time, thus small barrier seems to last longer. It should have a depletion rate of 750 per second regardless of how much barrier health you have.

[Ceit.7619]

I've felt a lot better about barrier since they front loaded the duration a bit, but it's still a bit too short of coverage in a lot of cases. I think barrier paired with blood magic can make for a fairly effective pairing, as it gives the necros healing some time to ramp up while the barrier is up, but just providing hp management isn't enough for supports in this game.

[xDudisx.5914]

Nerf scourge offensive power and increase its survivability/support. Maybe barrier skills could give protection too.

[Lily.1935]

I've been doing some testing with a barrier scourge for fractals as the group's Dedicated healer so to speak and the tests have proven fairly successful so far. The difference in having one and not is striking at how smoothly T4 fractals can go with one. Beyond just that the addition of barrier and its application for existing professions that would struggle in high end fractals such as thieves or elementalists due to their love health pools and defenses that aren't designed quite for how fractals enjoys punishing people, the Barrier healer necro in theory brings their defenses to the requirement needed to survive some of the more difficult encounters. Added to that the Barrier application has some decent range and with 25 might being shared out they can allow for allies to do other things for the group utility. The other advantage that the scourge healer brings is its access to repeatable and reliable boon stripping that the other healers have minimal access to(revenant) or no access to (Guardian and Ranger). Which boons are becoming a lot more important to remove in fractals as they can slow a fight down and make the foes hit extraordinarily hard. And don't expect that trend to stop any time soon. More testing is required though, as I do need to see how well the build works with a team of elementalists and thieves to truly test the limits of its team sustaining capabilities.

 

With that said, The build i've been playing with isn't without its flaws. Just one more means to heal allies would be nice to have or to increase the healing potential of Vampiric presence would be nice. Another flaw is with how the traits are set up. With no true third support option the necromancer can take aside from Blood and Scourge the choice is clearly to take soul reaping above all else since it does reduce the recharge of the shade abilities which can allow you to react more frequently. Scourge itself has issues with its traits. The biggest flaw is the Master traits. Desert Empowerment is the one you want to take, but the build uses more punishment skills than any other build I've used thus far. IF Serpent Siphon and Sand Swell were more reliable sources of barrier the argument could be made for Sadistic Searing over it, but they're just not. Thus we have a situation were you know the correct choice but it feels sub optimal. Regeneration on the necromancer from both staff and focus has good duration but very little control over how it is applied or even if it'll get to the right targets. Having this passive healing works wonders with barrier but the randomness of its application hinders the over all use. Further flaws are with your elite. Ghastly breach is your best option but its bursty nature, melee range, long cool down makes it a bit underwhelming compared to other support classes' elites. Range is also a problem. Although the shades give us reach on condi cleans and barrier application as well as protection for allies, the lack of range on the bulk of our might gen as well as our heavy requirement to constantly be generating life force puts us up close with the dagger. For other classes this might not be a problem. But for necromancer that has little stability and few mobility options this can mean that stuns could become our group's worst nightmare, although the necromancer herself is not likely to be broken by some stuns, allies who rely on us absolutely are.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRAof79mE9CO9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqTPgBQAgqDMCOUA-jxRhABtqEcA9DAs/AIq/80JBAUlf69EAIFg0isA-e

 

That's the build I've been playing with. Vitality is very important as it makes everything smoother. However I can't deny the importance of might duration so the runes of aristocracy is my choice. As for the sigils, still up in the air for me. And the scepter/focus could easily be exchanged for the staff depending on the demands of the situation at the current time. As such if you need to use the staff soul marks should be used, obviously. For the blank slots I'd advise against condition removal skills since abrasive grit and nefarious favor make short work of conditions and the extra removal will be superfluous. As for the two blank skills this is honestly up to situation. Dessicate is one I've found useful to top off might, give life force and strip boons but there are arguments against it. Blood is power can be a nice burst of might as well, but its cool down is a bit much without Master of Corruption and has little benefit outside of that. Sand Swell is excellent for moving yourself across the field to aid allies but pugs and even sometimes people you've played with for a while will not use it in high movement situations, running right past it. Corrosive poison cloud is situational, but when its useful it is extremely useful.

 

Another possibility you could take is moving more toward the power end and taking wells for the use of protection. Which will be something I'll test in the future. As it might prove to be more fruitful. However that does require the sacrifice of both transfusion and vampiric presence since you'd need the high healing from life from death to help mitigate the flaws. However, life from death isn't without its major flaw. You need to predict the tide of the battle 6 seconds in advance which is absolutely not optimal. But I'll let you guys know either way. I want to test this option out as well since a potential 10 seconds of protection on each well isn't something to over look.

 

I'm hopeful for the healer necro's future. And I'll keep you guys posted once I do more testing. But so far I've been having quite a bit of fun with it. Even if my attention has to go into 16 different directions.