More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > It's "I want that content, _and exclusive shinies to go with it, ones noone else is allowed to have_ or i quit".

> > > > >

> > > > > yah.. this whole "Challenge" is just a mask to ask for Exclusive Content and Stuffs, that they feel the unwashed masses should not get. It's always the same, across all games. It's never the challenge, as they all openly admit if they made an easy mode with similar rewards, no one would do hard. So it's not a drive for challenge, it's an insidious way to demand exclusive stuff.. which is pretty much the epitome of being petty if you ask me.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > No thats just human nature if there is a easier way to get something they do that.

> > >

> > > True,. but it also shows that by Human Nature, people are lying about wanting more challenge, they simply want exclusive stuff to be put out reach of others. Very pitiful really, can't understand why Anet fell for it either.

> >

> > And that's why there are folks in ANet designing games and you don't. Although the explanation is really simple. The problem is, you don't like it and you don't want to accepted. Luckily, that's your own problem.

>

> Well it's not really my problem.

>

> I mean.. it's not something I have to deal with to be honest, as we have already clearly said many times over, none of us need to play games, and given how saturated the market is right now.. none of us need to play **this** game.

>

> Yah I know it's a broken record about walking away and taking our money with us, but, given that my demographic is not the one that comes in and complains and cries that the game needs to change to suit them or how we need more challenge or what have you, we just show up, if the game is fun to us we stick around and spend money, given most of us are casual by real life commitments like jobs and family, we do have at least some disposable income to toss at our hobby, and enjoy the game, and often do so because we can't just dump the hours to grind for everything we want, so we stay, play and pay into the system for as long as it remains accessible to us.

>

> When or if the company decides to do something insanely stupid like make the game inaccessible to us, by and large we quietly move on. Some of us may say something, most of us don't. I mean lets get real, there are like 3 "casuals" in this discussion with far more raid proponents, and only around 5% of the game does raids, that should give an idea how disproportionate the forum ratios are, and even I am saying something now, I know I didn't say anything after leaving because I didn't like HoT... I didn't fuss they needed to fix the game.. I just walked away.

>

> And again, given the market saturation there is no shortage of other games to chose from, all of which are more then happy to welcome someone willing to spend money on their hobby and quietly enjoy their game.

>

> So.. No.. alienate my demographic and losing the funds that go with it, is decidedly Anet's problem, speaking of which, are you enjoying being price gouged by the mounts.. you can thank the dwindling casuals for that.. after all Anet needs to make money, and since we are spending ours somewhere else, that bill is now YOUR problem.. not mine.

>

> Enjoy the Raids.

 

You seem to forget all of the shiny new games coming out all fall in the same category given within 6 months to a year.

 

You are not going anywhere different.

 

Most MMOs have lootboxes.

Most MMOs have raids.

Most MMOs have exclusive content.

Most MMOs have some sort of PvP.

 

This is not aimed for you in particular, because there are many people like you, but simply saying there are games that do things differently is laughable. They all fall into the same business model until some new business model pops up or you fall into a different genre of gaming like single-player games.

 

WoW is no different

FF14 is no different

Wildstar was no different.

SWTOR was no different

Runescape

Aeon

Conan

Secret World (Revamped)

So I don't understand why people like yourself are falling for the trap of thinking some companies will treat you better, when at the end of the day they are all the same. All in the same time-span.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I'm going to drag you back to what is real; playing MMO's isn't about fair or catering to a specific group of players that seek pixels.

>

> I'm gonna stop you right here.. an MMO is **ALL** about _Catering to Specific Groups of Players that seek Pixels_.

 

No, I'm going to stop you. Catering to player's pixel desires is a SHORT TERM strategy for player retainment. ... and now your going to talk to me about having alternate paths for LONG TERM goals on obtaining pixels. Those two things do not go together. This is why paths are irrelevant.

 

You seem to want to ignore that regardless of the game, the developers, above anything else, are there to create an experience for players so they stay for the long term. Pixels don't do that. IF there are players that play because of pixels, they care little about the experience of the game, so multiple paths are meaningless to their enjoyment; they simply pick the one that results in pixels faster. Game experience is ALWAYS going to be a better approach than pixels. It's easy to see this, otherwise you simply don't get gaming.

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Exactly ... Just because in theory, multiple legendary paths sounds like a good idea doesn't mean it happens. the PRACTICAL side is the time it takes and how it's done. I don't really see it's worth the effort. What return on Anet's effort do they get, other than some goodwill for entitled players that aren't willing to do what is required NOW to get it?

> > It gives players a long term goal and keeps them playing, that's the main reason why legendaries were introduced in the first place.

>

> Yes sure, but that happens with or without multiple paths ...

Only for raiders. Which would be likely raiding anyway even without that armor, by the way. For everyone else it's useless in that regard, because a goal you won't work toward (because you don't like the path) will not keep you engaged.

Basically, if you want to give players a long-term goal to keep them playing, you don't put that goal behind a content most players will _not_ play. That completely defeats its purpose.

 

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> I really think people wouldn't be upset about raidlocked legendary armor if they could actually get into that content.

It's more complicated. For example, i can get into that content, and i already have the armor. It being raidlocked still immensely upsets me. I see it as a middle finger given by devs to the less hardcore part of the community. They had to know what issues it would cause, but they still did it anyway, which suggests they simply didn't give a kitten about what the players will think of it.

 

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> While this may be very true for some, others, like myself, came to GW2 to get away from raids, if I wanted to Raid I have entire communities I could return to in other MMO's, and run very dynamic and involved raids, till my fingers bled, enjoying the wonders of rare named loot and all that jazz that comes with doing raids. The whole attraction of GW2 to me, was that it did not have that kind of environment and content.

This. I don't like raids not because i can't play them. I can. I just came here to avoid them.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You seem to want to ignore that regardless of the game, the developers, above anything else, are there to create an experience for players so they stay for the long term. Pixels don't do that. IF there are players that play because of pixels, they care little about the experience of the game, so multiple paths are meaningless to their enjoyment; they simply pick the one that results in pixels faster. Game experience is ALWAYS going to be a better approach than pixels. It's easy to see this, otherwise you simply don't get gaming.

Exactly. Thus, pushing players into paths offering them the game experience those players actively dislike is not really desirable. It's far better to offer them choice.

 

 

 

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Exactly ... Just because in theory, multiple legendary paths sounds like a good idea doesn't mean it happens. the PRACTICAL side is the time it takes and how it's done. I don't really see it's worth the effort. What return on Anet's effort do they get, other than some goodwill for entitled players that aren't willing to do what is required NOW to get it?

> > > It gives players a long term goal and keeps them playing, that's the main reason why legendaries were introduced in the first place.

> >

> > Yes sure, but that happens with or without multiple paths ...

> Only for raiders. Which would be likely raiding anyway even without that armor, by the way. For everyone else it's useless in that regard, because a goal you won't work toward (because you don't like the path) will not keep you engaged.

> Basically, if you want to give players a long-term goal to keep them playing, you don't put that goal behind a content most players will _not_ play. That completely defeats its purpose.

 

There isn't anything wrong with this. Anet cannot chase the whim of every player who is unwilling to do specific content for specific gear. That's not PRACTICAL. Anet does not expect every player to get every reward they want, so that isn't a compelling reason to ask for multiple paths. The whole premise of multiple paths is based on a faulty expectation.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Exactly. Thus, pushing players into paths offering them the game experience those players actively dislike is not really desirable. It's far better to offer them choice.

 

Yes it is, but this isn't a decision based on fairness.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I'm going to drag you back to what is real; playing MMO's isn't about fair or catering to a specific group of players that seek pixels.

> >

> > I'm gonna stop you right here.. an MMO is **ALL** about _Catering to Specific Groups of Players that seek Pixels_.

>

> No, I'm going to stop you. Catering to player's pixel desires is a SHORT TERM strategy for player retainment. ... and now your going to talk to me about having alternate paths for LONG TERM goals on obtaining pixels. Those two things do not go together. This is why paths are irrelevant.

>

> You seem to want to ignore that regardless of the game, the developers, above anything else, are there to create an experience for players so they stay for the long term. Pixels don't do that. IF there are players that play because of pixels, they care little about the experience of the game, so multiple paths are meaningless to their enjoyment; they simply pick the one that results in pixels faster. Game experience is ALWAYS going to be a better approach than pixels. It's easy to see this, otherwise you simply don't get gaming.

>

 

Lets get something clear.. without those "Pixels" no one would play the game or it's content at all.. so.. all this is bunk.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > I'm going to drag you back to what is real; playing MMO's isn't about fair or catering to a specific group of players that seek pixels.

> > >

> > > I'm gonna stop you right here.. an MMO is **ALL** about _Catering to Specific Groups of Players that seek Pixels_.

> >

> > No, I'm going to stop you. Catering to player's pixel desires is a SHORT TERM strategy for player retainment. ... and now your going to talk to me about having alternate paths for LONG TERM goals on obtaining pixels. Those two things do not go together. This is why paths are irrelevant.

> >

> > You seem to want to ignore that regardless of the game, the developers, above anything else, are there to create an experience for players so they stay for the long term. Pixels don't do that. IF there are players that play because of pixels, they care little about the experience of the game, so multiple paths are meaningless to their enjoyment; they simply pick the one that results in pixels faster. Game experience is ALWAYS going to be a better approach than pixels. It's easy to see this, otherwise you simply don't get gaming.

> >

>

> Lets get something clear.. without those "Pixels" no one would play the game or it's content at all.. so.. all this is bunk.

 

No, that's untrue; it's unfortunate that you view the gameplay with so little value but it's not how most people regard games they like to play. People that want to play a good game will play ANY game that provided them an amazing gaming experience, EVEN if they didn't get pixels for it. On the other end of the spectrum, if people JUST want pixels, they could care less how they get them. I mean, people played old school FPS games for hours and they got NOTHING for it, other than the joy of playing it. You're telling me that's bunk? ON the other hand, I've yet to see a game that's got any sort of longevity wher eyou just sign in, buy some clothes with a CC and walk around looking at yourself .... I think you need to check your reality.

 

While both of our views are extreme, your view is not honest. The reality is that most people lie somewhere in between. The FACT is that a smart game company will cater more to players that want a good game experience, knowing that real players engaged with a good game experience are more likely to have loyalty than those players that just want the quick high of superficial pixels. Anet provides both, but it makes sense they err on the side of gaming experience over pixels. Again, if you don't see that, you aren't paying attention to how they are prioritizing content vs. pixels.

 

The fact remains .. 'fairness' or 'value proposition' are not compelling arguments to add multiple paths. It's a practical, business-based decision.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> You seem to forget all of the shiny new games coming out all fall in the same category given within 6 months to a year.

>

 

Not at all. You just have a bad sampling.

 

> You are not going anywhere different.

>

 

Sure I could. Just to name a few off the top of my head. BDO, and Trove.

 

> Most MMOs have lootboxes.

> Most MMOs have raids.

> Most MMOs have exclusive content.

> Most MMOs have some sort of PvP.

>

 

and yet.. I don't have an issues with any of those things.

 

In fact the MMO I played before I came to GW2, was very raid heavy and I was a serious raider in that game, had blatant P2W, in the form of being able to buy raw character power and Sold DLC that was the only sources of unique and powerful gear, in a twist of irony, I quit.. because they nerfed raid loot. Not gonna put up with that.. you expect me to spend years going after some 0.1% rare drop item waiting on a 3 day refresh on the raid timer, or needing to pay money for a bypass, and then you nerf that.. to hell with those guys..

 

The MOBA I am playing has loot boxes.. I don't have a problem with that either.. not a fan of the RNG to be honest, so I don't partake, but, we all gotta make our choices, I still kick mondo ass and enjoy it for what it is.

 

> This is not aimed for you in particular, because there are many people like you, but simply saying there are games that do things differently is laughable. They all fall into the same business model until some new business model pops up or you fall into a different genre of gaming like single-player games.

>

> WoW is no different

> FF14 is no different

> Wildstar was no different.

> SWTOR was no different

> Runescape

> Aeon

> Conan

> Secret World (Revamped)

> So I don't understand why people like yourself are falling for the trap of thinking some companies will treat you better, when at the end of the day they are all the same. All in the same time-span.

 

Not being rude but those games are old (or just badly done) and show it.

 

Try playing Trove, BDO, ESO, or even jump into an MOBA (like Eternal Crusade because it's Warhammer 40K). With other games like CU, CF, Anthem, Pantheon, And Walking Dead (I love the TV show, so I will be playing this game and forcing myself to love it, even if it sucks harder then hover jacked on nos) slated to come out this year.. and a slew of others that I have no idea about.. those are just the games I have in my radar.

 

Really.. yah.. we have choices.. lots of them.. So do you and yours for that matter.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > I'm going to drag you back to what is real; playing MMO's isn't about fair or catering to a specific group of players that seek pixels.

> > > >

> > > > I'm gonna stop you right here.. an MMO is **ALL** about _Catering to Specific Groups of Players that seek Pixels_.

> > >

> > > No, I'm going to stop you. Catering to player's pixel desires is a SHORT TERM strategy for player retainment. ... and now your going to talk to me about having alternate paths for LONG TERM goals on obtaining pixels. Those two things do not go together. This is why paths are irrelevant.

> > >

> > > You seem to want to ignore that regardless of the game, the developers, above anything else, are there to create an experience for players so they stay for the long term. Pixels don't do that. IF there are players that play because of pixels, they care little about the experience of the game, so multiple paths are meaningless to their enjoyment; they simply pick the one that results in pixels faster. Game experience is ALWAYS going to be a better approach than pixels. It's easy to see this, otherwise you simply don't get gaming.

> > >

> >

> > Lets get something clear.. without those "Pixels" no one would play the game or it's content at all.. so.. all this is bunk.

>

> No, that's untrue; it's unfortunate that you view the gameplay with so little value but it's not how most people regard games they like to play. People that want to play a good game will play ANY game that provided them an amazing gaming experience, EVEN if they didn't get pixels for it. On the other end of the spectrum, if people JUST want pixels, they could care less how they get them. I mean, people played old school FPS games for hours and they got NOTHING for it, other than the joy of playing it. You're telling me that's bunk? ON the other hand, I've yet to see a game that's got any sort of longevity where you just sign in, buy some clothes with a CC and walk around looking at yourself .... I think you need to check your reality.

 

You mean like Second Life, which is still going strong even tho is was made in 2003?

 

Or are you talking about .. Oh how people who do raids feel that their effort needs to be reward with pixels for them to do it.

 

Yah.. Bunk.

 

The only game mode that has proven to driven by anything other then pixels is PvP.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Oh yes, that ONE WHOLE GAME, that caters to EVERY person that doesn't want to actually do more than dress up in a 3-D chat room. Thanks, for making my point exactly ... if the size of that 'gamer' market doesn't tell you how little Anet should pay attention to pixel-focused players, then I don't know what does. Thank you for that gem.

 

Or somehow you are suggesting that Anet should capture that absolutely insignificant market with multiple paths on legendary gear? Good business decision!!!

 

Also, way to ignore my real examples of playing good games for NOT pixels and just for the experience of the game. Of course, you are telling me I'm fully of bunk ... along with legions of DOOM players , etc ... I guess stories are more fun to tell, but truth is boring.

 

Answer this: If people ONLY care about pixels, then why do those people start a thread requesting different game experiences to get them? You just told me no one cares about the experience ... it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, then why is it so important that Anet listen to people who want multiple paths for legendary armor? You realize how wrong you are?

[Tails.9372]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> There isn't anything wrong with this.

Sure it is, putting "the goal" behind niche content only a few amount of players are expected to engage in defeats the overarching purpose of having it in the first place.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Anet cannot chase the whim of every player who is unwilling to do specific content for specific gear. That's not PRACTICAL.

Which is exactly why a mode specific overarching goal has to be tied to a more general reward structure. The Envoy set may be **a** PvE set but it can never be **the** PvE set for this very reason and that's what differenciates it from the Glorious and Triumphant sets which actually are representative goals for their respective "game modes".

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Anet does not expect every player to get every reward they want, so that isn't a compelling reason to ask for multiple paths. The whole premise of multiple paths is based on a faulty expectation.

You're right, but only if your explicitly talking about the unique rewards for the respective niche content in question. But that's not the topic here.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Answer this: If people ONLY care about pixels, then why do those people start a thread requesting different game experiences to get them?

 

Are you really telling me you never heard the Cliche _The Best loot is the loot No One else can get?_

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Oh yes, that ONE WHOLE GAME, that caters to EVERY person that doesn't want to actually do more than dress up in a 3-D chat room.

 

There is also Furcadia, Entropia, and a few others, but, don't let your lack of knowing what you are talking about stop you from talking about it like you know everything.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

>

> The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

 

Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

> >

> > The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

>

> Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

 

Don't ignore the other part of my post. It is possible, but it serves no purpose.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

> > >

> > > The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

> >

> > Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

>

> Don't ignore the other part of my post. It is possible, but it serves no purpose.

 

You keep saying that and I disagreed in several other threads/posts, that's why I ignored it this time.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

> > > >

> > > > The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

> > >

> > > Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

> >

> > Don't ignore the other part of my post. It is possible, but it serves no purpose.

>

> You keep saying that and I disagreed in several other threads/posts, that's why I ignored it this time.

 

And you failed to provide a decent reason why you disagree. All you can learn in easy/story mode, you can in fractals. You won't learn *the* actual mechanics, you'll have to train them in the actual raid. Again, fractals. Do normal mode 99/100 all you want, once you step in the cm, you'll fail and you'll need to practice it. Except it will be even worse, as a solo story mode would be more like t1 in challenge. Do you really think t1 SO can prepare you for level 100 CM?

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > > So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

> > > > >

> > > > > The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

> > > >

> > > > Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

> > >

> > > Don't ignore the other part of my post. It is possible, but it serves no purpose.

> >

> > You keep saying that and I disagreed in several other threads/posts, that's why I ignored it this time.

>

> And you failed to provide a decent reason why you disagree. All you can learn in easy/story mode, you can in fractals. You won't learn *the* actual mechanics, you'll have to train them in the actual raid. Again, fractals. Do normal mode 99/100 all you want, once you step in the cm, you'll fail and you'll need to practice it. Except it will be even worse, as a solo story mode would be more like t1 in challenge. Do you really think t1 SO can prepare you for level 100 CM?

 

I gave you reasons, one is that the tiered system in fractals successfully allows all players access to the content and provide a learning curve that leads to the highest tier. In my opinion, that is the main reason why fractals are popular and raids are not. You disagree, that's fine. We don't have to discuss this over and over again.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > > > > > So why not implement some story-mode for raids which people have to do solo? Sure, you have to tone done stuff so its soloable and some mechanics are somewhat tricky to teach in a solo-scenario, but you can teach people some basic understanding of how stuff works that way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The thing is, a lot of the mechanics don't translate well to a solo scenario.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then maybe Anet (or you) could check out those other games that successfully implemented solo story modes for raids or dungeons and learn from them. I can imagine a few NPCs in your story team that can take over parts of group mechanics. It should be possible to have an NPC stand in a green circle, right? You are setting limitations where there are probably none, maybe due to lack of imagination.

> > > >

> > > > Don't ignore the other part of my post. It is possible, but it serves no purpose.

> > >

> > > You keep saying that and I disagreed in several other threads/posts, that's why I ignored it this time.

> >

> > And you failed to provide a decent reason why you disagree. All you can learn in easy/story mode, you can in fractals. You won't learn *the* actual mechanics, you'll have to train them in the actual raid. Again, fractals. Do normal mode 99/100 all you want, once you step in the cm, you'll fail and you'll need to practice it. Except it will be even worse, as a solo story mode would be more like t1 in challenge. Do you really think t1 SO can prepare you for level 100 CM?

>

> I gave you reasons, one is that the tiered system in fractals successfully allows all players access to the content and provide a learning curve that leads to the highest tier. In my opinion, that is the main reason why fractals are popular and raids are not. You disagree, that's fine. We don't have to discuss this over and over again.

 

IT. IS. THE. SAME. PROGRESSION.

Raid tiers would just overlap fractal ones, they'll bring NOTHING new to the game. If you disagree with this, elaborate why so I can tell you why you're wrong. Although it would be the repeat of what I already said - lower tiers DO NOT teach you what you need to know for the higher ones. They teach you basics ONLY.

[Taranis.7451]

It wouldn't matter one bit what ANet do. If Legendary Armor was added to fractals, it would obviously be locked behind a long-term grind, T4 CMs etc. and we'll be back here listening to more whiners and complainers who, at the end of the day, want something for nothing.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> It's more complicated. For example, i can get into that content, and i already have the armor. It being raidlocked still immensely upsets me. I see it as a middle finger given by devs to the less hardcore part of the community. They had to know what issues it would cause, but they still did it anyway, which suggests they simply didn't give a kitten about what the players will think of it.

 

The thing is that raids in GW2 aren't as "hardcore" as the community makes them to be. In comparison to other MMORPGs, they actually are quite casual, especially because of the game design. You don't really need that much cd-management in GW2 (you have no real cds to begin with and every single mechanic is basically mostly handled by chrono and/or druid), you don't have a proper aggro-system, you rather seldomly need situational awareness because of the trinity-system, the list could go on.

 

> @"Taranis.7451" said:

> It wouldn't matter one bit what ANet do. If Legendary Armor was added to fractals, it would obviously be locked behind a long-term grind, T4 CMs etc. and we'll be back here listening to more whiners and complainers who, at the end of the day, want something for nothing.

 

Well, legendaries are about long-term goals. Adding fractal legendary armor wouldn't be that bad since fractals are far more accessible. A lot less people could complain that that armor-set would be out of their reach.

 

 

[SirTomato.3627]

Was super disapointed when I found out that legendary armor it's a raid thing.

 

Sadly raids here works differenly than in other mmos. I have no place in that content. I just hope they make another way to obtain it.

[Assic.2746]

> @"SirTomato.3627" said:

> Was super disapointed when I found out that legendary armor it's a raid thing.

>

> Sadly raids here works differenly than in other mmos. I have no place in that content. I just hope they make another way to obtain it.

 

Yeah, Like WvW or... PvP.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > You seem to forget all of the shiny new games coming out all fall in the same category given within 6 months to a year.

> >

>

> Not at all. You just have a bad sampling.

>

> > You are not going anywhere different.

> >

>

> Sure I could. Just to name a few off the top of my head. BDO, and Trove.

>

> > Most MMOs have lootboxes.

> > Most MMOs have raids.

> > Most MMOs have exclusive content.

> > Most MMOs have some sort of PvP.

> >

>

> and yet.. I don't have an issues with any of those things.

>

> In fact the MMO I played before I came to GW2, was very raid heavy and I was a serious raider in that game, had blatant P2W, in the form of being able to buy raw character power and Sold DLC that was the only sources of unique and powerful gear, in a twist of irony, I quit.. because they nerfed raid loot. Not gonna put up with that.. you expect me to spend years going after some 0.1% rare drop item waiting on a 3 day refresh on the raid timer, or needing to pay money for a bypass, and then you nerf that.. to hell with those guys..

>

> The MOBA I am playing has loot boxes.. I don't have a problem with that either.. not a fan of the RNG to be honest, so I don't partake, but, we all gotta make our choices, I still kick mondo kitten and enjoy it for what it is.

>

> > This is not aimed for you in particular, because there are many people like you, but simply saying there are games that do things differently is laughable. They all fall into the same business model until some new business model pops up or you fall into a different genre of gaming like single-player games.

> >

> > WoW is no different

> > FF14 is no different

> > Wildstar was no different.

> > SWTOR was no different

> > Runescape

> > Aeon

> > Conan

> > Secret World (Revamped)

> > So I don't understand why people like yourself are falling for the trap of thinking some companies will treat you better, when at the end of the day they are all the same. All in the same time-span.

>

> Not being rude but those games are old (or just badly done) and show it.

>

> Try playing Trove, BDO, ESO, or even jump into an MOBA (like Eternal Crusade because it's Warhammer 40K). With other games like CU, CF, Anthem, Pantheon, And Walking Dead (I love the TV show, so I will be playing this game and forcing myself to love it, even if it sucks harder then hover jacked on nos) slated to come out this year.. and a slew of others that I have no idea about.. those are just the games I have in my radar.

>

> Really.. yah.. we have choices.. lots of them.. So do you and yours for that matter.

 

Trove?

TROVE?????

 

You mean the games that ALL trove YouTubers say it is completely and utterly P2W and have treated their costumers like utter trash??? You mean the game that lost over half of their population on the consoles ALONE?

 

BDO

 

You mean the game that had devs that didn't care if people were exploiting the server merge and basically said if you don't like it you can just LEAVE? 30 dollars worth of crap just so you can stat wise roflestomp all over noobs. Oh yes, had my fair share with that. Utter garbage.

 

So you say the games I list show their age, but you wanna know the difference between your games listed and mine?

 

RuneScape and WoW in particular, even if they are probably the most old fashioned, grindy, RPG games alive, they were also considered the stepping stone for what you enjoy today.

 

They show their age because they SURVIVED, while even the newer games can barely hold on without wrecking their sales in the first year.

 

Heck! Even MapleStory is doing better than Trove and BDO combined, and that game has been around for 14+ years.

 

We have the -illusion- of choice. And people like you are falling for it again and again, expecting that any of these companies are any different from Anet. They aren't. But, at the end of the day, I can't stop people from doing what they want. Whatever people say on these forums, whatever they think, they are stubbornly going to hang on to it until they leave and probably do the same thing on a different game.

 

So at this point, sure. Perhaps it is time for you to find new games if this one seems to lock you out so badly. Even though the paywall and content in most of the other ones is worse without dropping your wallet on the table. But hey, not my money and certainly not my problem.

 

Have a good day.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Answer this: If people ONLY care about pixels, then why do those people start a thread requesting different game experiences to get them?

>

> Are you really telling me you never heard the Cliche _The Best loot is the loot No One else can get?_

 

So you can't or won't answer this question? I don't care about cliches, I care about people making sense if they are going to be persistent with their positions on topics:

 

So again, if what you claim is correct and people **only** care loot, why do they need multiple paths to expand their game experiences to get loot? If they couldn't give a toss about game experience, like you are claiming, what's the point of offering any more than one path for any particular item?

 

That's a hypocritical position to be in ... you realize that? Of course you do, that's why you fell back on a cliche to respond to me in the first place ... because you don't have an answer to dig yourself out of the logical fallacy you put yourself in.

 

That's OK ... this is all very academic and not very relevant anyways ... the real factors for implementing anything are business related ones, not whether it's right or wrong or based on some individual feelings.

[Purgatori.3645]

I have read most of this thread, admittedly not all of this thread, and I just dont understand why raids are strictly PVE content. (please bare with me)

 

PVE has a solid player base, but that player base isnt anymore important than the dedicated WvW'ers or the hardcore Pvp'ers. I am strictly PVE, but I have dabbled in PVP and WVW and just prefer AP/expansions/LWS ....

 

PVP is different from PVE which is also different from WVW everyone knows this ... but like ... if raids are end game content because they hold legendary armor which was PVE only then they should stay strictly PVE. If Anet is going to get wishy washy about it and say like ok ... you can have legendary armor in PVP and WvW but as an "upgrade" only so you dont have access to the skins because we want you to to PVE well sorry thats just horseshit. You giveth and you taketh away all in the same breath. 2 options here ... either stand your ground and keep them PVE only content for the full legendary armor/skins ... or .. create raids that are PVE .... PVP ... AND WVW .... make them specific to their environment! how hard is this? You have already updated arenas and borderlands etc etc .... make raids in WVW so hardcore dedicated players can still earn their legendary armor containing the ACTUAL skins ...

 

Enter WVW and have a new raid waiting for you? Sounds pretty cool and might actually draw players back to WVW ... same with PVP .... create raid bosses that give points to the blue team or the red team and those who fight hardest to take down the bosses while avoiding getting taken down by enemy players wins ... (Im not a dev and dont care if my idea wont actually work you know what im getting at) There are ways to make this work for everyone and clearly this is content that everyone wants .... Why be so stingy and flaky with it?

 

Give the people what they want.