More “paths” to legendary gear...

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I'm 100% serious ... look, this isn't some exercise where you get to vote in what you think is good ideas or have Anet revert ones you don't like because you won debate club. The bottom line is that Anet implements what they want. That's not might, that's just how it works.

> Oh, i agree. It doesn't mean however that they are going to always be making _good_ decisions, or that they will never go back on some of their decisions later on. And community feedback _is_ one of the factors that might influence a potential change in decisions. It _has_ happened before. So, we don't get to vote, but we _can_ give feedback. And that's what we do.

 

You are very correct with this, right now, this is deliberations and feedback.

 

When or if this fails, and then we are left with no choice but to vote with out wallets. In a way, we do get a vote, unfortunately, and all too often with most games, it's a silent vote.

 

Also, **Added** what a lot of Raid Supporters in this thread seem to forget (or maybe just never quite figured out), is that playable content does not make Anet money, it's purely overhead costs and just a means to hold players attention and keep their interest in the game in the hopes that if they are playing and thus hopefully enjoying the game, they will buy stuff from the store. The only profit Anet makes is through the store, these design plans do not calculate how how profitable each kind of content is, nor does it allow them to see what is upsetting their players and driving down spending. So all too often, when it comes to playable content, since they don't have a direct way to see how profitable any kind of content is, they at best can check it's activity level, so, it really does all boil down to if it sounds like a good idea or not.

 

That is why Feedback, like this topic, is so very important, it allows them to recognize that there is a problem here, that it hurting their players enjoyment, and thus driving down their spending habits.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> But, as I see it, the biggest problem with what is going on, is that there is a direction change with the game, and it feels like it has moved away from the core values that made the original game great, so.. by returning to those principals, what they might doing is keeping their own job.. which might be a bit more important to them then pleasing some lowly casual peasant like me or placating some hardcore meta junkie.

>

> Because if the trend stays as it is, the numbers keep going down, well, while I am sure the game won't die and that I GW2 will be around for many years to come, if you think development is limited now.. wait till the layoff start.

 

Again, if you feel this, you didn't understand the core values of the game in the first place so your attributing a 'problem' with the game as a misconception you have. And I don't think development is limited now. In fact, I see things happens on all fronts in the game. Seems to me like it's been rather steady.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > But, as I see it, the biggest problem with what is going on, is that there is a direction change with the game, and it feels like it has moved away from the core values that made the original game great, so.. by returning to those principals, what they might doing is keeping their own job.. which might be a bit more important to them then pleasing some lowly casual peasant like me or placating some hardcore meta junkie.

> >

> > Because if the trend stays as it is, the numbers keep going down, well, while I am sure the game won't die and that I GW2 will be around for many years to come, if you think development is limited now.. wait till the layoff start.

>

> Again, if you feel this, you didn't understand the core values of the game in the first place so your attributing a 'problem' with the game as a misconception you have. And I don't think development is limited now. In fact, I see things happens on all fronts in the game. Seems to me like it's been rather steady.

 

Or maybe it is you that don't really understand the core values of this game.

 

And you have been the one to fuss constantly on this topic that they have limited resources to do anything, so, this seems like a real back track from you.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > But, as I see it, the biggest problem with what is going on, is that there is a direction change with the game, and it feels like it has moved away from the core values that made the original game great, so.. by returning to those principals, what they might doing is keeping their own job.. which might be a bit more important to them then pleasing some lowly casual peasant like me or placating some hardcore meta junkie.

> > >

> > > Because if the trend stays as it is, the numbers keep going down, well, while I am sure the game won't die and that I GW2 will be around for many years to come, if you think development is limited now.. wait till the layoff start.

> >

> > Again, if you feel this, you didn't understand the core values of the game in the first place so your attributing a 'problem' with the game as a misconception you have. And I don't think development is limited now. In fact, I see things happens on all fronts in the game. Seems to me like it's been rather steady.

>

> Or maybe it is you that don't really understand the core values of this game.

>

> And you have been the one to fuss constantly on this topic that they have limited resources to do anything, so, this seems like a real back track from you.

 

That makes no sense. What back track is it you are referring to? Having limited resources isn't a contradiction to me saying Anet has a steady development of the game. That also makes no sense.

 

I won't dig up from 30 pages of forum threads, but it's not me that doesn't get the core value of 'play how you want'. It's you.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > But, as I see it, the biggest problem with what is going on, is that there is a direction change with the game, and it feels like it has moved away from the core values that made the original game great, so.. by returning to those principals, what they might doing is keeping their own job.. which might be a bit more important to them then pleasing some lowly casual peasant like me or placating some hardcore meta junkie.

> > > >

> > > > Because if the trend stays as it is, the numbers keep going down, well, while I am sure the game won't die and that I GW2 will be around for many years to come, if you think development is limited now.. wait till the layoff start.

> > >

> > > Again, if you feel this, you didn't understand the core values of the game in the first place so your attributing a 'problem' with the game as a misconception you have. And I don't think development is limited now. In fact, I see things happens on all fronts in the game. Seems to me like it's been rather steady.

> >

> > Or maybe it is you that don't really understand the core values of this game.

> >

> > And you have been the one to fuss constantly on this topic that they have limited resources to do anything, so, this seems like a real back track from you.

>

> That makes no sense. What back track is it you are referring to? Having limited resources isn't a contradiction to me saying Anet has a steady development of the game. That also makes no sense.

>

> I won't dig up from 30 pages of forum threads, but it's not me that doesn't get the core value of 'play how you want'. It's you.

 

Unless you have a Anet Dev saying I am wrong someplace.. this purely a fabrication on your part.

[Obtena.7952]

no it's not really ... we know what Anet's philosophy is and it said nothing about how you get loot. The misinterpretation is yours.

[STIHL.2489]

Allow me to share this with you then.

 

> you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

 

So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

 

Now, here is a final little bit.

 

> It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

 

Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

 

And finally.

 

> Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

 

> – Mike O’Brien

 

Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

 

So.. no..

 

If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Allow me to share this with you then.

>

> > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

>

> So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

>

> Now, here is a final little bit.

>

> > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

>

> Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

>

> And finally.

>

> > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

>

> > – Mike O’Brien

>

> Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

>

> So.. no..

>

> If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

Well, I dunno but Legendary gear always has been behind alot of grind. And while it has been in the beginning of the game it never was considered to be preparing for having fun. If anything "Preparing to have fun" started being a thing way earlier when people needed to prepare for tequatl and later other world events. Raids are just the content that followed from that. Or maybe even earlier than that when ascended weapons became a thing.

 

This has nothing to do with understanding what the founding principles were back then and more about what they are now. And understanding that they have changed over time. Whether or not you more like the ones back then or now is entirely upto you ofcourse.

 

If anything, Following their "founding principles, they shouldn't at all focus on Legendary gear, and instead on fun and great experiences that are actually fun. But your over-attachment to legendary gear is all what drives you here. Not whether the game is actually good. Probably the same reason you say PoF is bad, because you don't get enough loot. It's nothing to do with having a high quality game experience and more with getting stuff stuff and more stuff.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Allow me to share this with you then.

> >

> > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> >

> > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> >

> > Now, here is a final little bit.

> >

> > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> >

> > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> >

> > And finally.

> >

> > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> >

> > > – Mike O’Brien

> >

> > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> >

> > So.. no..

> >

> > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

> Well, I dunno but Legendary gear always has been behind alot of grind. And while it has been in the beginning of the game it never was considered to be preparing for having fun. If anything "Preparing to have fun" started being a thing way earlier when people needed to prepare for tequatl and later other world events. Raids are just the content that followed from that. Or maybe even earlier than that when ascended weapons became a thing.

 

And that was brought on by the whiners wanting more challenge. Ruined a perfectly fine World Boss. Nothing good has come to this game in their efforts to placate the people who whined about needing more challenge.. not a single thing.

 

>

> This has nothing to do with understanding what the founding principles were back then and more about what they are now. And understanding that they have changed over time. Whether or not you more like the ones back then or now is entirely upto you ofcourse.

>

 

Oh this has everything to do with the fact they have abandoned their core design principals, and the fact that is was a bad decision to do so.

 

> If anything, Following their "founding principles, they shouldn't at all focus on Legendary gear, and instead on fun and great experiences that are actually fun.

 

Originally, Legendary Gear was just an Exotic that required a transmutation stone to change the stats of, like every single other exotic out there, it was in every way purely cosmetic, unlike today, which again.. was a bad move on their part to make Legendary anything more then cosmetic.

 

So, in the end, we all agree that they have abandoned their core design principals.. which is a 100% viable and fully rational reason to jump ship from the game.. well.. lets see how that plays out for them.. The numbers are saying that it's not looking like it was a smart move to abandon their design manifesto.

 

I am also going to ignore your personal attacks directed at me and making assumptions about me, but I will say this, if you can't respond without a personal attack please stop responding to me.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Allow me to share this with you then.

>

> > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

>

> So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

>

> Now, here is a final little bit.

>

> > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

>

> Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

>

> And finally.

>

> > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

>

> > – Mike O’Brien

>

> Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

>

> So.. no..

>

> If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

 

I don't know where you got that quote or who said it, but that says NOTHING about GW2 abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO has in it. The fact is that while there are lots of things Gw2 doesn't do traditionally, there are also lots of traditional things it stayed with, since day 1. Most pertinent to the discussion, it has continued with the idea that there is specific loot tied to specific content. This is NOT a sudden deviation showing Anet has somehow strayed from the original idea of the game ... it's been part of the original idea of the game since the beginning.

 

You're portrayal that Anet desired to abandon ALL things traditional MMOs had is a ridiculous sentiment because frankly, there are lots of traditional things MMO's have going for them that make sense in this game as well ... and this idea that loot rewards from specific content is one of them.

 

So again, no, you are taking a general statement from where ever ... and applied it very specifically to something you dislike to justify your dissatisfaction with the current (and past since day 1) state of the game. Specific loot from specific content is NOT some deviation from the original intent of the game because that has been the way of the game since the beginning. You're simply reading FAR too much from such a broad statement. By design, nothing they said there excludes the possibilities of locking gear behind raids because that statement never indicated they were abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO did.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Allow me to share this with you then.

> >

> > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> >

> > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> >

> > Now, here is a final little bit.

> >

> > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> >

> > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> >

> > And finally.

> >

> > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> >

> > > – Mike O’Brien

> >

> > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> >

> > So.. no..

> >

> > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

>

> I don't know where you got that quote or who said it,

 

That was Mike O'Brien, (I put the name at the end of the Quote), so what You are telling me, I am having a discussion about the core foundation principals and design manifesto of GW2 with someone who does not know who Mike O'Brien (AKA: MO) is?

 

Well just to clear some things up for you, he's The President of Arenanet.

 

With that said, I can safely disregard anything you assume from here on out, as it's pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

[STIHL.2489]

Oh and umm yah..

 

Here is a bit more food for thought.

 

> We founded this company because we wanted to shake up a risk-averse industry, and show that game companies don’t have to just keep making the same games over and over again to be successful. We believe that gamers want to try new things, new experiences, and that they’ll reward the companies who can bring them something new.

> – Mike O’Brien

 

So yah.. been a great discussion with you.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Allow me to share this with you then.

> >

> > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> >

> > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> >

> > Now, here is a final little bit.

> >

> > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> >

> > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> >

> > And finally.

> >

> > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> >

> > > – Mike O’Brien

> >

> > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> >

> > So.. no..

> >

> > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

>

> I don't know where you got that quote or who said it, but that says NOTHING about GW2 abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO has in it. The fact is that while there are lots of things Gw2 doesn't do traditionally, there are also lots of traditional things it stayed with, since day 1. Most pertinent to the discussion, it has continued with the idea that there is specific loot tied to specific content. This is NOT a sudden deviation showing Anet has somehow strayed from the original idea of the game ... it's been part of the original idea of the game since the beginning.

>

> You're portrayal that Anet desired to abandon ALL things traditional MMOs had is a ridiculous sentiment because frankly, there are lots of traditional things MMO's have going for them that make sense in this game as well ... and this idea that loot rewards from specific content is one of them.

>

> So again, no, you are taking a general statement from where ever ... and applied it very specifically to something you dislike to justify your dissatisfaction with the current (and past since day 1) state of the game. Specific loot from specific content is NOT some deviation from the original intent of the game because that has been the way of the game since the beginning. You're simply reading FAR too much from such a broad statement. By design, nothing they said there excludes the possibilities of locking gear behind raids because that statement never indicated they were abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO did.

>

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien

 

You are trying to make arguments from a huge deficit... and have a huge lack of understanding...

[Swagger.1459]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Allow me to share this with you then.

> > >

> > > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> > >

> > > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> > >

> > > Now, here is a final little bit.

> > >

> > > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> > >

> > > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> > >

> > > And finally.

> > >

> > > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> > >

> > > > – Mike O’Brien

> > >

> > > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> > >

> > > So.. no..

> > >

> > > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

> >

> > I don't know where you got that quote or who said it,

>

> That was Mike O'Brien, (I put the name at the end of the Quote), so what You are telling me, I am having a discussion about the core foundation principals and design manifesto of GW2 with someone who does not know who Mike O'Brien (AKA: MO) is?

>

> Well just to clear some things up for you, he's The President of Arenanet.

>

> With that said, I can safely disregard anything you assume from here on out, as it's pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Good post!

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Allow me to share this with you then.

> > >

> > > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> > >

> > > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> > >

> > > Now, here is a final little bit.

> > >

> > > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> > >

> > > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> > >

> > > And finally.

> > >

> > > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> > >

> > > > – Mike O’Brien

> > >

> > > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> > >

> > > So.. no..

> > >

> > > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

> >

> > I don't know where you got that quote or who said it, but that says NOTHING about GW2 abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO has in it. The fact is that while there are lots of things Gw2 doesn't do traditionally, there are also lots of traditional things it stayed with, since day 1. Most pertinent to the discussion, it has continued with the idea that there is specific loot tied to specific content. This is NOT a sudden deviation showing Anet has somehow strayed from the original idea of the game ... it's been part of the original idea of the game since the beginning.

> >

> > You're portrayal that Anet desired to abandon ALL things traditional MMOs had is a ridiculous sentiment because frankly, there are lots of traditional things MMO's have going for them that make sense in this game as well ... and this idea that loot rewards from specific content is one of them.

> >

> > So again, no, you are taking a general statement from where ever ... and applied it very specifically to something you dislike to justify your dissatisfaction with the current (and past since day 1) state of the game. Specific loot from specific content is NOT some deviation from the original intent of the game because that has been the way of the game since the beginning. You're simply reading FAR too much from such a broad statement. By design, nothing they said there excludes the possibilities of locking gear behind raids because that statement never indicated they were abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO did.

> >

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien

>

> You are trying to make arguments from a huge deficit... and have a huge lack of understanding...

 

No, not at all because what I said still stands, regardless of who made the quote. That quote does not say they are abandoning everything that a traditional MMO offers, including specific loot from specific content, a concept in the game since day 1.

 

> Here is a bit more food for thought.

>

> > We founded this company because we wanted to shake up a risk-averse industry, and show that game companies don’t have to just keep making the same games over and over again to be successful. We believe that gamers want to try new things, new experiences, and that they’ll reward the companies who can bring them something new.

> > – Mike O’Brien

 

and? They did that AND maintained elements of traditional MMO's that are still relevant to the game, including specific loot from specific content.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Allow me to share this with you then.

> > > >

> > > > > you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

> > > >

> > > > So, by design, it should not follow the paths of "Traditional" MMO's where they put in stupid stuff like Raids and then lock the best stuff behind it, because that would be a trap of traditional MMO's now wouldn't it?

> > > >

> > > > Now, here is a final little bit.

> > > >

> > > > > It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.

> > > >

> > > > Anyone can tell you that Raids are all about prep, making a build, learning the encounter, building that network of players.. that sounds a lot like a whole lot a needed grind to prep to do raids. This is also where you lie to me and say that raids are easy, anyone can do them, and they take no prep or effort. However if that was true, then they should not offer a better reward then OW map events, which is where you flop around all over the place tying to make a point or justify the need for raids and their rewards, when you don't have one.

> > > >

> > > > And finally.

> > > >

> > > > > Because in the end, this isn’t just our game – we want it to be yours as well – and we can’t wait to play it with you.

> > > >

> > > > > – Mike O’Brien

> > > >

> > > > Which goes against everything you have said about it being their game, their choice, and they can do what they want.

> > > >

> > > > So.. no..

> > > >

> > > > If anyone truly failed to grasp the foundation design principals.. it's you and your ilk.. across all 30 of this pages.

> > >

> > > I don't know where you got that quote or who said it, but that says NOTHING about GW2 abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO has in it. The fact is that while there are lots of things Gw2 doesn't do traditionally, there are also lots of traditional things it stayed with, since day 1. Most pertinent to the discussion, it has continued with the idea that there is specific loot tied to specific content. This is NOT a sudden deviation showing Anet has somehow strayed from the original idea of the game ... it's been part of the original idea of the game since the beginning.

> > >

> > > You're portrayal that Anet desired to abandon ALL things traditional MMOs had is a ridiculous sentiment because frankly, there are lots of traditional things MMO's have going for them that make sense in this game as well ... and this idea that loot rewards from specific content is one of them.

> > >

> > > So again, no, you are taking a general statement from where ever ... and applied it very specifically to something you dislike to justify your dissatisfaction with the current (and past since day 1) state of the game. Specific loot from specific content is NOT some deviation from the original intent of the game because that has been the way of the game since the beginning. You're simply reading FAR too much from such a broad statement. By design, nothing they said there excludes the possibilities of locking gear behind raids because that statement never indicated they were abandoning EVERYTHING a traditional MMO did.

> > >

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mike_O%27Brien

> >

> > You are trying to make arguments from a huge deficit... and have a huge lack of understanding...

>

> No, not at all because what I said still stands, regardless of who made the quote. That quote does not say they are abandoning everything that a traditional MMO offers, including specific loot from specific content, a concept in the game since day 1.

 

Thanks for participating!

 

I’d highly suggest reading and absorbing more, so you can gain a greater understanding.

 

Have a good one!

[Obtena.7952]

No problem ... Let me sit here satisfied that we have multiple paths to get leg armor already, accessible to every player willing to do the content to get it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > We founded this company because we wanted to shake up a risk-averse industry, and show that game companies don’t have to just keep making the same games over and over again to be successful. We believe that gamers want to try new things, new experiences, and that they’ll reward the companies who can bring them something new.

> > > – Mike O’Brien

>

> and? They did that AND maintained elements of traditional MMO's that are still relevant to the game, including specific loot from specific content.

 

Umm Nope, the only variable among loot at day 1, was purely cosmetic, Exotic was the best gear in the game, and it was available from many sources and ventures.

 

I am kind of impressed that you don't let being constantly wrong and vastly ill informed discourage you. fits well with my sig.

[Obtena.7952]

Good, so when you see legendary armor available in specific, multiple places now, you can't say it's any different than exotic armor available from specific, multiple places at the beginning of the game either. Glad you brought that up.

[STIHL.2489]

Well this topic has shown me that it does not take intelligence to raid. So there is that.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> No problem ... Let me sit here satisfied that we have multiple paths to get leg armor already, accessible to every player willing to do the content to get it.

 

I don’t care, that’s not the entirety of the suggestion or the reasoning behind it...

 

Spend less time commenting and more time trying to understand the basics... People will take you more seriously when you indicate that you know what the (easy to follow) topic is about, the important people being quoted and the spirit of the ideas being brought up.

 

I’ll even help you again because you’re not processing it... because you’re mentally stuck on “legendary armor”.

 

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> Would be nice to have a path to all legendary gear (weapons, armors, trinkets and back pieces) for every mode (owpve, dungeons, fractals, raids, spvp, wvw)... so players can play how they want.

>

> Just remember folks... “It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.” - Mike O’Brien

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

I don't have a problem following your flawed arguments for more paths for whatever gear you want to talk about, ESPECIALLY the ones that twist a few broad marketing statements taken out of context into absolute rules dictating how whatever you want should be delivered to you how you see fit.

[STIHL.2489]

Easy Solution, Make Legendary purely Cosmetic again, and have Exactly the same stats as Ascended, Which could be done by simply giving Ascended the Stats swap ability.

[Obtena.7952]

Except people not having armor with swappable stats isn't the problem here.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I don't have a problem following your flawed arguments for more paths, ESPECIALLY the ones that twist a few broad marketing statements taken out of context into absolute rules dictating how whatever you want should be delivered to you how you see fit.

 

I enjoy debates, but if you don’t know the easy to understand topic, the easy to understand wording of the topic, the founder of this game and his quotes, the spirit of the game design philosophy envisioned by the founder... there is nothing more I can do to help you with.

 

I can now safely sit back and know that I did my best to help you in a constructive manner, and that the rest is up to you to work out within yourself.

 

GLHF!