TheRandomGuy.7246 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Ditch build diversity and merge the stats to streamline classes and remove the ability to play trash tier builds on purpose or by accident. Fix the root of the problem which is unnecessary complexity in a casual friendly MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > Ditch build diversity and merge the stats to streamline classes and remove the ability to play trash tier builds on purpose or by accident. Fix the root of the problem which is unnecessary complexity in a casual friendly MMO. Yes because ditching build diversity has worked so well in other MMOs and having no build diversity will automatically make all players have equal skill. /s In the meantime people will leave en mass since the game turns into on boring mesh of similar classes. Great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serialkicker.5274 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @serialkicker.5274 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @serialkicker.5274 said: > > > > There is nothing creative about skipping. Stack swiftness and stealth and press R while watching TV. Why are you guys trying to make skipping sound like you need any more than two brain cells to make it work? I can literally take a guy who never did dungeon, take him through dungeon and show him how to skip and he'll be able to do it in first try by himself. > > > > > > If it's so easy then why is it a problem with elitism (the thread's topic)? > > > > Is this a serious question? Elitism doesn't have much to do with skipping. Elitism has to do with people telling other how they should play, if not, they can't play alongside the big boys club. > > And yes, it's easy for whoever did a dungeons/fractals at least couple of times and knows the basics of combo fields. Are you taking people with 500 AP who never did dungeons and just hit lvl 80 to prove your point? I have done thousands of dungeons, speedrun and casuals and I don't remember having a serious problem with skipping even with newbies. They usually stick to experienced players anyway and quickly pick up on whats happening. It takes way more time to teach them certain encounters/mechanics then how to skip. > > Actually elitism has to do with players of different skill coming together over a similar activity where one side (the more experienced usually) will belittle the other side. > > This has less to do with telling people how to play, even if people like bringing this up. It has more to do with incompatible players getting thrown together. > > The most often cause for this is miss use of the LFG tool. > > Since every player has the ability to use the LFG tool equally thus enabling them to form parties how ever they want and with what ever specifications they desire, it essentially boils down to: > > - laziness of players (an inherent human characteristic) > - inability to understand abbreviations (which actually can be quite a hurdle for new players) > - inability to read > - lack of customization options for the LFG tool > - greed for gear, rewards, loot and gaining them asap trying to skip ahead as much as possible > > Especially the laziness aspect is a huge issue here. A vast majority of the players are incapable of using a simple tool to get grouped with others to overcome challenges in this game. Other MMOs have taken the easy way out and implemented auto grouping features for easier content to let players experience story or gain basic rewards. Yes, I know what elitism is, I was just pointing out one of the ways it is shown in this game. And that's people telling others what build they must run in order to play along. But doesn't matter. Thing about LFGs is that even elitists themselves often don't use them properly. I had plenty of people join non speedrun, no skipping lfg and they still rushed ahead and then started asking in chat "Why kill?" and stupid things like that. Another point is, we are so far with this meta thing, that even if you open up an LFG that says casual run, there is a very very high chance people will play exactly the same as you play in speedruns, just not as efficiently, meaning no proper might stacking for example. But they will skip, stack and all the rest just the same. No one cares if a guy with 500 AP is in group and is in dungeon for the first time. Who cares, he'll either follow or die. And his first dungeon experience will be ruined. Remember, this is LFG for casual run, I'm not talking "lvl 80 exp meta only" LFGs. I've seen this many times. New players don't know how to find proper LFG for them. You would think "casual run" or simply "p2" is the right one. But no, sadly, it's not. You need to say explicitly "no skipping" and even then you don't have a 100% chance to get what you want, because like you pointed, people don't read. Third point. Guilds. That's easy to say and dismiss people with "just find a right guild". Guess what? Even the most casual guild you can find will run dungeons exactly the same as speedruns. I've changed many many guild in gw2 and I've done countless dungeons. I know very well what I'm talking about. Or in most guild you won't even get a group for dungeon at all. I don't blame anyone for rushing, I'm just pointing out how poorly designed dungeons and some other content are as well as mechanics. And how people are manipulated easily. Some time ago I had a guy completely lose his mind when we were in casual HotW p2 run. I was on engineer and i used grenade kit underwater. He started insulting me and couldn't stop trashtalking wtf i'm doing with grenade kit underwater. There was a pretty new guy that never done dungeons before, so i showed him around the AC. Even made him a build for his guard. After I showed him how to run AC, next day he invited me to come along with him and do AC run with random group. All of sudden this guy start yelling at other newbies because they didn't know what to do. Like seriously. Just a day before this same guy didn't have any idea what to do and needed me to help him. But he couldn't do the same for other newbies. I could literally make 20 posts just of what BS I've seen in dungeons, but you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fengzhou.9853 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Mourningcry.9428 said: > I think it's pretty elitist to presume one knows how to fix elitism.... The OP never stated or insinuated they knew how to 'fix' elitism. It's pretty predictable comments like this come out of the woodwork in an attempt to try to discredit a post. Give the guy credit for wanting to discuss the elephant in the room. I'm sorry it chaps your rear that someone had the gall to speak up and share their thoughts and ideas with the public. If you don't agree? That's cool, state why, be constructive, otherwise? Stop trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Or you know, they could have stuck to their original design manifesto, and that would have fixed the problem as well. > With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there’s a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you. I personally spend a big chunk of my time in traditional MMOs soloing, but when I play GW2 I always find myself naturally working with everyone around me to accomplish world objectives, and before long we find ourselves saying, “Hey, there’s a bunch of us here; let’s see if we can take down the swamp boss together,” without ever having bothered to form a party. > Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway. but you know, they opted to be more like everyone else, and.. now have the same problems as everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Personally I just avoid elitist players. When someone joins my party and starts acting like a mini Balthazar they become the most likely one to get kicked out. I'd rather struggle more with the inexperienced players than tolerate some elitist who keeps attacking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhiannon.1726 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > Or you know, they could have stuck to their original design manifesto, and that would have fixed the problem as well. > > > With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there’s a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you. I personally spend a big chunk of my time in traditional MMOs soloing, but when I play GW2 I always find myself naturally working with everyone around me to accomplish world objectives, and before long we find ourselves saying, “Hey, there’s a bunch of us here; let’s see if we can take down the swamp boss together,” without ever having bothered to form a party. > > Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway. > > but you know, they opted to be more like everyone else, and.. now have the same problems as everyone else. Sigh. That just describes open world pve. We have difficult instanced group content since release. Or have you forgetten the groups that needed hours to complete Arah (especially p4)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Rhiannon.1726 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > Or you know, they could have stuck to their original design manifesto, and that would have fixed the problem as well. > > > > > With traditional MMOs you can choose to solo or you can find a good guild or party to play with. With GW2 there’s a third option too: you can just naturally play with all the people around you. I personally spend a big chunk of my time in traditional MMOs soloing, but when I play GW2 I always find myself naturally working with everyone around me to accomplish world objectives, and before long we find ourselves saying, “Hey, there’s a bunch of us here; let’s see if we can take down the swamp boss together,” without ever having bothered to form a party. > > > Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway. > > > > but you know, they opted to be more like everyone else, and.. now have the same problems as everyone else. > > Sigh. > > That just describes open world pve. We have difficult instanced group content since release. Or have you forgetten the groups that needed hours to complete Arah (especially p4)? But there was no reason to do Arah at all much less P4. So beyond for the Fun of it, doing Arah Paths was totally irrelevant. The skins are purely cosmetic (and ugly IMHO). (they even made the story Solo, because it was part of the PS) Since Moving away from that idea of "for fun" and now locking things behind raids, and what have you... forcing people to group to get the best gear, well congrats, now they are like everyone else. Skyfore, Tera, GW2, WoW, what's the difference at this point? There are a ocean of games that GW2 is like now, when at one time it was it's own little garden. Anyone that does not like the way things are, well, GW2 is no longer a unique little haven of trying to break mold, nothing special here anymore. So now they have the same problems that everyone else has, and they did to themselves. so its obviously what they want, as such, no point in trying to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenGlass.9356 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > ... > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > Why you ask? > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > #sigh > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) Thus, nullifying your concern. Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenGlass.9356 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 I appreciate that this thread, beyond the typical responses of 'I'm afraid of change, I don't 100 love your idea, so it's total crap... Get a guild, read the LFG zomfgwtfbbq!'... This thread has been reasonably productive. The detractors of this thread need to stop assuming people *LIE* about thier experiences on an online game to "control" a conversation on fourms. Maybe they just have real concerns that you can't understand. Like the concerns of the gay son left misunderstood by a macho father. (metaphor people! Sorry if that was too close to home) both sides have a point, and its only fear keeping them from hearing each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > ... > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > #sigh > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 In my opinion, elitism can´t be fixed, only accepted or hung out to dry. Why? Elitist players have a small pool of possible raider buddies. A raider obviously tends to quickly run out of patience with non-hard content. As evindence for this, just browse quickly over the forum and count the number of people who groan and moan about easy accessible content and reward. So he is like a shark in that regard, he can´t just idle around and jump out of the water for fun, he has to press water through his gills all the time. So you basically have a band of sharks that is a bunch but still only eats for themselves. If you´re not big enough, you´re cut loose or leave for safer grounds because you can´t live from the morsels. So what does this mean? Whenever an elitist raider leaves a band, it is hard to replace him adequately. So they have two choices, make the raid with less people or grudgingly invite a not as experienced player into their mid and teach him. From what I have read here and read in the game itself, the fewest of elitist raiders are able or just willing to do that because it cuts in their game time and they carry no one. What I don´t get is how this self defeating system manages to sustain itself for so long. Maybe the numbers of elitists against normal raiders is not as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Fengzhou.9853 said: > > @Mourningcry.9428 said: > > I think it's pretty elitist to presume one knows how to fix elitism.... > > The OP never stated or insinuated they knew how to 'fix' elitism. It's pretty predictable comments like this come out of the woodwork in an attempt to try to discredit a post. Give the guy credit for wanting to discuss the elephant in the room. I'm sorry it chaps your rear that someone had the gall to speak up and share their thoughts and ideas with the public. > > If you don't agree? That's cool, state why, be constructive, otherwise? Stop trolling. Lets say there are a couple hundred people working on GW2 that contribute to development as part of the job they were deemed qualified to do... Now, lets assume some level of professional expertise amongst all of that, backed up with psychological, neurological, statistical, and marketing research and expertise - almost guaranteed to have covered the majority of content of suggestions posted across the forums and reddit... Not to mention numerous "case" examples across the gaming industry as reference... Perhaps elitist may have been the wrong word, lets call it presumption, to think that Anet is not aware of the current environment and is incapable of enacting any number of these suggestions if they deemed it in line with their vision of how the game should be, which, obviously, they do not. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and they're all a bunch of escaped lab monkeys banging away on keyboards and have no idea what they're actually doing. After all, it seems everyone knows better than they do on how to fix the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Using the LFG to create their own groups is still the solution. Just because players choose to ignore the descriptions doesn’t mean it’s ineffective. The issue then becomes getting players to be considerate and only join LFG’s, which have restrictions or preferences, which apply to them. If a group wants someone with 666 LI’s then players should respect that and only join if they have at least that many. If a group wants to be relaxed and allow any build and all player skills, players should respect that and not impose their own restrictions against that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > ... > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenGlass.9356 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > Using the LFG to create their own groups is still the solution. Just because players choose to ignore the descriptions doesn’t mean it’s ineffective. > > The issue then becomes getting players to be considerate and only join LFG’s, which have restrictions or preferences, which apply to them. If a group wants someone with 666 LI’s then players should respect that and only join if they have at least that many. If a group wants to be relaxed and allow any build and all player skills, players should respect that and not impose their own restrictions against that group. My original post accepted this, and made suggestions (maybe not good ones.... That probably why I'm not employed in game design.) That part of my post was aimed ad dodging responses like these and keeping it on *'ideas that improve game play for all gamers concerned *' > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > ... > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. I did put 'fix' in quotes. Trying to point out that the changes to grouping I'm proposing are designed to minimize toxicity from elitism on other players. So, elitism is a valid part of the discussion, in fact it's the groundwork of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > ... > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: a. make their own parties b. find a guild of friendly players c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > ... > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > a. make their own parties > b. find a guild of friendly players > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences You forgot FFXIV: A Realm Reborn. Warframe is quite awesome, but then again it has it's own version of Raids, and if you suck the game can be unforgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomGuy.7246 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > Ditch build diversity and merge the stats to streamline classes and remove the ability to play trash tier builds on purpose or by accident. Fix the root of the problem which is unnecessary complexity in a casual friendly MMO. > > Yes because ditching build diversity has worked so well in other MMOs and having no build diversity will automatically make all players have equal skill. > /s > > In the meantime people will leave en mass since the game turns into on boring mesh of similar classes. Great idea. No other relevant mmo has so many builds. GW2 has diversity for the sake of diversity. Current system overwhelms new players with options on low end and creates never ending balance and viability issues on the high end. It's a casual story driven MMO with some hard content sprinkled on top. It does not need build complexity of an esports MOBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > ... > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > a. make their own parties > b. find a guild of friendly players > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences You always have the choice to no involve yourself in the discussion if it bothers you that much. also, LOL, so, let me get this right, I am not a fan of Raids in GW2.. so you suggest WoW.. which is renowned for being a heavily raid focused MMO, as an alternative... anyway, thanks for the suggestions, I already have a few other games I am looking at. Most are in Development. 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Cyninja.2954 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > > > a. make their own parties > > b. find a guild of friendly players > > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences > > You always have the choice to no involve yourself in the discussion if it bothers you that much. > > also, LOL, so, let me get this right, I am not a fan of Raids in GW2.. so you suggest WoW.. which is renowned for being a heavily raid focused MMO, as an alternative... > > There might be a reason why people don't take your advice seriously. I suggested WoW because it has a very streamline raid and dungeon finder tool for which you need absolutely 0 interaction with other players and 0 skill. Thought you might enjoy that. You know, instead of frequenting a game forum of a game you supposedly quit 2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > > > > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > > > > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > > > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > > > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > > > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > > > > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > > > > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > > > > > a. make their own parties > > > b. find a guild of friendly players > > > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences > > > > You always have the choice to no involve yourself in the discussion if it bothers you that much. > > > > also, LOL, so, let me get this right, I am not a fan of Raids in GW2.. so you suggest WoW.. which is renowned for being a heavily raid focused MMO, as an alternative... > > > > There might be a reason why people don't take your advice seriously. > > I suggested WoW because it has a very streamline raid and dungeon finder tool for which you need absolutely 0 interaction with other players and 0 skill. Thought you might enjoy that. > > You know, instead of frequenting a game forum of a game you supposedly quit 2 years ago. Humm so.. what part of "returned for PoF" was too hard for you to grasp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > > > > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > > > > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > > > > > > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > > > > > > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > > > > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > > > > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > > > > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > > > > > > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > > > > > > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > > > > > > > a. make their own parties > > > > b. find a guild of friendly players > > > > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences > > > > > > You always have the choice to no involve yourself in the discussion if it bothers you that much. > > > > > > also, LOL, so, let me get this right, I am not a fan of Raids in GW2.. so you suggest WoW.. which is renowned for being a heavily raid focused MMO, as an alternative... > > > > > > There might be a reason why people don't take your advice seriously. > > > > I suggested WoW because it has a very streamline raid and dungeon finder tool for which you need absolutely 0 interaction with other players and 0 skill. Thought you might enjoy that. > > > > You know, instead of frequenting a game forum of a game you supposedly quit 2 years ago. > > Humm so.. what part of "returned for PoF" was too hard for you to grasp? The part were you still berate and complain about this game left and right. Also your exact quote was you have been looking for a new game ever since HoT. I was trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > @Ayrilana.1396 said: > > Using the LFG to create their own groups is still the solution. Just because players choose to ignore the descriptions doesn’t mean it’s ineffective. > > > > The issue then becomes getting players to be considerate and only join LFG’s, which have restrictions or preferences, which apply to them. If a group wants someone with 666 LI’s then players should respect that and only join if they have at least that many. If a group wants to be relaxed and allow any build and all player skills, players should respect that and not impose their own restrictions against that group. > > My original post accepted this, and made suggestions (maybe not good ones.... That probably why I'm not employed in game design.) > That part of my post was aimed ad dodging responses like these and keeping it on *'ideas that improve game play for all gamers concerned *' > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > ... > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > I did put 'fix' in quotes. Trying to point out that the changes to grouping I'm proposing are designed to minimize toxicity from elitism on other players. > > So, elitism is a valid part of the discussion, in fact it's the groundwork of the discussion. Except that your solutions are not fixing the problem which is players joining groups that they shouldn’t and players not creating their own groups. The game should not changed to force everyone to play together. There’s only toxicity because people do not read the LFG description and/or just flat out ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > > > > > > > > > @BrokenGlass.9356 said: > > > > > > > > > > Cyninja, I'll spare the thread the full breakdown to requoting, and crystallize a few thoughts here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, the places where we agree, you already pointed them out, and I appreciate that. But you contradict yourself pretty badly here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Besides party leaders being able to abuse the system and kick people say right before the end of a fractal or dungeon and then sell the other 4 spots or invite friends, sure let's give party leaders the same power as squad leaders..." > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > "You do understand that a squad leader sets up a LFM and every person who joins will likely fulfill the requirement asked for (or get kicked by the squad leader). It's seldom the squad or members get to decide who stays or gets kicked but usually the squad leader who is in charge..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... It's a viable solution for 10 man content.... Where we do in fact see people selling raids all the bloody time. But when applied to 5 man content it's rife for abuse... Where we don't currently see people selling groups. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So... If that squad leader powers allow for abuse that leads to selling groups.... Clearly that needs a fix of its own, which I don't have an answer for... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why you ask? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *I don't claim this fixes everything, not even close. But it's a few things that help everyone, elitist or casual alike. And it helps to mend the schism in our community.* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you meeting my attempts to suggest a fix with hostility? I'm not a dev, I can't make kitten happen. Just throwing it out there bro. Sorry my exaggeration of time waiting for a group in an otherwise completely non-serious paragraph drove you to feel like I needed to be taken down a peg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > #sigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reason this works for 10 mann content is because you can't simply replace 1-2 people without reason. Groups selling raids are preorganized and built from the ground up to support those 1-2 empty spots. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now as far as 5 mann content, how many dungeons or regular T4 fractals do you think this applies to? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The difficulty for 5 mann content is low enough that replacing 4 people would be almost no issue and the amount of people needed is also low enough to be easily doable. Something which does not as easily work for raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not sure why this had to be spelled out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're kinda snarky. We could just be talking.... Not quipping. Ego's a serious problem for the internet. (including myself here, speaking objectively, but how could I know you beyond text enough to respect you personally, psych 101) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, if we're talking about that.... Which seems like a basically valid reason... The answer is to have rewards scaling based on percentage of fractal completion. (including number of enemies killed) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus, nullifying your concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second point, is selling groups a bad thing? Beyond it clogging the LFG, and letting the rich idiots of the world infiltrate high end raid content and get carried.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > See I think if you build a group to do it... Go ahead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you're being a horrible person and kicking 4 people before the boss, that should be a reportable offense. (not a perfect solution. But if the rewards scale with percentage completion, and you can report the jerk who boots and sells instances.... Then putting that 'selling fractal 100' listing in LFG is like putting 'stolen guitar for sale' on Craigslist.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure we could just be talking and discussing different approaches to grouping and such. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your thread is not titled "new ideas on grouping" or "what I think would improve grouping", it's titled the way it is and the "solutions" you offered are in no way helping. That's all I was pointing out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to make a new thread more appropriate to what you want to discuss. > > > > > > > > > > > > nahhh I have to agree with him, you come across as very snarky. > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, still waiting for that list of games you think are better or equal to GW2, that I should go try. > > > > > > > > > > Oh sorry, must have slipped my mind. here is a list of games you might enjoy: > > > > > > > > > > - first and foremost Warframe. One of the most popular free to play games with litreally no extra cost and a very fair business model > > > > > - maybe give WoW a try. The LFG, the handholding and easy access might be to your liking > > > > > - SW:ToR has a very well made narrative and is absolutely soloable. Then again, they have a way more intrusive in game shop > > > > > - Secred World Legends is praised with its very deep story too > > > > > > > > > > That's basically the MMOs which you might want to give a try since you are so unhappy with GW2 direction. > > > > > > > > > > As for being snarky, maybe I am, then again it gets very tiresome to have the same threads pop up over and over and over and over addressing an issue which can easily be fixed for any one who is involved enough or mature enough to: > > > > > > > > > > a. make their own parties > > > > > b. find a guild of friendly players > > > > > c. is capable of joining groups on the LFG which match his preferences > > > > > > > > You always have the choice to no involve yourself in the discussion if it bothers you that much. > > > > > > > > also, LOL, so, let me get this right, I am not a fan of Raids in GW2.. so you suggest WoW.. which is renowned for being a heavily raid focused MMO, as an alternative... > > > > > > > > There might be a reason why people don't take your advice seriously. > > > > > > I suggested WoW because it has a very streamline raid and dungeon finder tool for which you need absolutely 0 interaction with other players and 0 skill. Thought you might enjoy that. > > > > > > You know, instead of frequenting a game forum of a game you supposedly quit 2 years ago. > > > > Humm so.. what part of "returned for PoF" was too hard for you to grasp? > > The part were you still berate and complain about this game left and right. Also your exact quote was you have been looking for a new game ever since HoT. I was trying to help. LOL. No, that was not my exact quote, that is what you assumed, thanks for being the poster child of what goes wrong with people reading the LFM. But, if it makes you feel any better, I have already played some pretty awesome games during my hiatus and given your suggestions and what I enjoy, I am sure running into you again won't be a problem, none the less, I also have my eye on a few games in development. Anyway, yah, raids were a bad idea, but that is what Anet wants these days, to be like everyone else, and have the same problems. They can't and won't fix what they cultivated and invited into their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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