Miellyn.6847 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama (well ESO, wow is a cesspit because of the gear race) The 'evidence' is in plain sight. The majority of players in GW2 don't have access to 10 man casual instances that other AAA mmorpgs and GW1 provide. So basically if you are a casual PVE player you have no end game appart form 5 man instances. Poor right. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather see this evidence that you must have to claim that the "majority" is raiding in other games. > > > > > > I'd also like to see games where the vast majority of content, like 99.999% of it is in open world huge zones and not games that are only about raiding. If they are only about raiding it makes sense that everyone is raiding... > > > > > > Go on post the proof now and we can discuss it. > > > > > > > > > > being disingenuous doesn't really achieve anything > > > > > > > > So you don't have any data to share just an empty claim about the "majority" in other games. Good to know. > > > > > > well quite frankly you are perfectly capable of using google yourself. But to save you a couple klicks, WOW has 70% + lfr to give one example. > > > > 70% participation while 50% of the content after expansion release are raids. Pretty bad numbers hmm? And you still need to substract a hefty amount for the non existent convinient features we don't have and won't get. > > The only thing you show is that there is a huge amount of people that won't touch raids with a ten foot pole regardless of the difficulty and during a content drought. > > ,actually the report had 70% regularly attended lfr raids (that's not even including normal/mythic etc above that) ie the majority which is the word you just HAD to respond to. do you even know what you are arguing for? > > ps, even at your '50%' figure that is indeed millions of players playing normal mode in just 1 game, and much more than the harder modes. Understand now? Absolute numbers are completely irrevelant to this discussion, especially with the playerbase difference between WoW and GW2. 70% completetion rate was the value in MOP, not the regular players. Most players also play the lower difficulties with twinks so 70% is actually around the real participation over all difficulties. There was even a world boss locked behind raids as you needed the legendary cloak to access it and you still have only 70%. So much content hidden behind raids, so many convinient features and you still dont even reach 3/4 of the players in a game designed to 100% around it. The number will be way worse for GW2 and you have to substract the people that are already raiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > >The exact same thing can be said about the difficulty. > > > > Not really. That's a very separate thing, because while I **100% agree with you** that having the high level of difficulty matters to those who enjoy it, **and should remain available to those players,** having an easier difficulty level matters just as much to everyone else. > > You're misinterpreting or misunderstanding me. The difficulty is *part* of the story. It creates tension, and a sense of danger. Without it, the bosses are just some deranged persons and overgrown critters. "Here, bash this oversized puppy. Feel better?" Ok, and because you believe that, *you* should probably stick to the harder difficulty modes, but not everyone would agree with you on that, and the easier mode should be available for them. One size does not fit all. > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama > > And it's not because raiding is where you get the new, better gear in the gear treadmill? GW2 raids are currently the *only* place to get Envoy armor. I've suggested alternatives but so far you guys keep shooting those down. Remember, where other games have a stat treadmill, GW2 has a cosmetics treadmill. > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama (well ESO, wow is a cesspit because of the gear race) The 'evidence' is in plain sight. The majority of players in GW2 don't have access to 10 man casual instances that other AAA mmorpgs and GW1 provide. So basically if you are a casual PVE player you have no end game appart form 5 man instances. Poor right. > > I'd rather see this evidence that you must have to claim that the "majority" is raiding in other games. > I'd also like to see games where the vast majority of content, like 99.999% of it is in open world huge zones and not games that are only about raiding. If they are only about raiding it makes sense that everyone is raiding... > Go on post the proof now and we can discuss it. I think maybe you meant to say "and we can *dismiss* it?" That seems to be more in keeping with your MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > GW2 has a cosmetics treadmill. How often do your cosmetics get reset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama (well ESO, wow is a cesspit because of the gear race) The 'evidence' is in plain sight. The majority of players in GW2 don't have access to 10 man casual instances that other AAA mmorpgs and GW1 provide. So basically if you are a casual PVE player you have no end game appart form 5 man instances. Poor right. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather see this evidence that you must have to claim that the "majority" is raiding in other games. > > > > > > > I'd also like to see games where the vast majority of content, like 99.999% of it is in open world huge zones and not games that are only about raiding. If they are only about raiding it makes sense that everyone is raiding... > > > > > > > Go on post the proof now and we can discuss it. > > > > > > > > > > > > being disingenuous doesn't really achieve anything > > > > > > > > > > So you don't have any data to share just an empty claim about the "majority" in other games. Good to know. > > > > > > > > well quite frankly you are perfectly capable of using google yourself. But to save you a couple klicks, WOW has 70% + lfr to give one example. > > > > > > 70% participation while 50% of the content after expansion release are raids. Pretty bad numbers hmm? And you still need to substract a hefty amount for the non existent convinient features we don't have and won't get. > > > The only thing you show is that there is a huge amount of people that won't touch raids with a ten foot pole regardless of the difficulty and during a content drought. > > > > ,actually the report had 70% regularly attended lfr raids (that's not even including normal/mythic etc above that) ie the majority which is the word you just HAD to respond to. do you even know what you are arguing for? > > > > ps, even at your '50%' figure that is indeed millions of players playing normal mode in just 1 game, and much more than the harder modes. Understand now? > > Absolute numbers are completely irrevelant to this discussion, especially with the playerbase difference between WoW and GW2. > 70% completetion rate was the value in MOP, not the regular players. Most players also play the lower difficulties with twinks so 70% is actually around the real participation over all difficulties. There was even a world boss locked behind raids as you needed the legendary cloak to access it and you still have only 70%. So much content hidden behind raids, so many convinient features and you still dont even reach 3/4 of the players in a game designed to 100% around it. The number will be way worse for GW2 and you have to substract the people that are already raiding. i didn't say completion rate, and I was responding to the challenge about the majority, i was merely saying the majority of players play more easy mode than hard mode in any ANY given mmorpg. Are people really so prepared to deny reality for the sake of protecting a tiny niche that could be so much more? its bizarre considering the history of mmorpg and where they have evolved to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > GW2 has a cosmetics treadmill. > > How often do your cosmetics get reset? Not sure what you're asking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: > We'll yes gen2. The legendaries which where made unsellable so people people where forced to do certain things. Why do you think that Is;) Because some people whined on forums? (also, notice how a PoF option was retroactively added to some of those, to open more options for them? > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > You're also making assumptions though, that it couldn't possibly be done in a reasonable amount of time and effort. Both are assumptions. I'll continue to stick with mine until we get some more detailed feedback, feel free to stick with yours. > > > No. It is the statement from ArenaNet. No, it isn't. The statement was that we should not be making assumptions about the programming side of things. And that's exactly what both you and Ohoni are doing. If you want to claim that there was an official Anet statement about how difficult doing that specific thing would be, then you'd better find and quote it first, because i'm reasonably sure that no such statement was ever made. That often mentioned post by Gaile definitely _wasn't_ it. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > /sigh, can we just agree that you're never going to be right on this one and move on? The raid story matters, participating in it matters, it will always matter not matter how much time you spend trying to explain that it shouldn't matter. It will regardless. > > > > > > The exact same thing can be said about the difficulty. It matters, it will always matter regardless how much time you spend trying to explain that it shouldn't matter. Precisely. Just as you are a person that thinks (or at least claims so) that story and actively participating in it doesn't matter, there are players that think the very same thing about difficulty. You feel it's okay if story is something you read about from infodump. Other people think it's okay if difficulty is something they only see on youtube vids. Or read about in ingame infodumps. There's no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > >The exact same thing can be said about the difficulty. > > > > > > Not really. That's a very separate thing, because while I **100% agree with you** that having the high level of difficulty matters to those who enjoy it, **and should remain available to those players,** having an easier difficulty level matters just as much to everyone else. > > > > You're misinterpreting or misunderstanding me. The difficulty is *part* of the story. It creates tension, and a sense of danger. Without it, the bosses are just some deranged persons and overgrown critters. "Here, bash this oversized puppy. Feel better?" > > Ok, and because you believe that, *you* should probably stick to the harder difficulty modes, but not everyone would agree with you on that, and the easier mode should be available for them. One size does not fit all. > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama > > > > And it's not because raiding is where you get the new, better gear in the gear treadmill? > > GW2 raids are currently the *only* place to get Envoy armor. I've suggested alternatives but so far you guys keep shooting those down. Remember, where other games have a stat treadmill, GW2 has a cosmetics treadmill. > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > the majority dont raid in GW2, the majority (e.g millions of players) do raid in other games such as eso ,wow etc because have different skill level's and far far less drama (well ESO, wow is a cesspit because of the gear race) The 'evidence' is in plain sight. The majority of players in GW2 don't have access to 10 man casual instances that other AAA mmorpgs and GW1 provide. So basically if you are a casual PVE player you have no end game appart form 5 man instances. Poor right. > > > > I'd rather see this evidence that you must have to claim that the "majority" is raiding in other games. > > I'd also like to see games where the vast majority of content, like 99.999% of it is in open world huge zones and not games that are only about raiding. If they are only about raiding it makes sense that everyone is raiding... > > Go on post the proof now and we can discuss it. > > I think maybe you meant to say "and we can *dismiss* it?" That seems to be more in keeping with your MO. Funny that you say that because that 's what you are doing all the time. Empty claims and beliefs are easier to dismiss because they mean nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Meaning the "GW2 experience" is facerolling hordes of monsters that pose no real danger whatsoever. If I wanted that, I'd play Diablo 3. Or played GW2, if you wanted Raids and Challenge, you should have played Wildstar, WoW, or a slew of other games. Never ceased to amaze me that people would come to this faceroll game and then cry that it was too easy and needs to be like said harder game.. but didn't want to go play said harder game. But I think that point was made few dozen times over on this topic as well. In the end, Raids are not going to change, no matter what we say here. Anyone looking for alternate path to Legendary Armor, please check out WvW or sPvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > Do you really feel entitled to have a full easy mode game? > > > > **Yes!** We come to this game for an all easymode game! That's why we aren't playing a hard mode game. If we wanted hard mode, we'd be playing something else! Having a game that is 99% one thing and then 1% another is the worst, because it means that people who enjoy most of the game have some portion forever closed off to them. This is why we need an easy mode, so that 100% of the game is open to those who enjoy most of it. > > > > > > > > **entitled** > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? But you have the skills, time, twitch skill, and resources to do said content, as such, it is purely a matter of you not wanting to do it, not a matter of lacking the capacity on any level to do it,. Many casuals do not have the time, twitch skill, or resources to do raids. As such, you have 100% of the game open to you.. others do not. If you firmly believe that 100% of the players can do raids, then they are not any more special then say getting a PoI, but, we all know that Raids are designed to be hard content, and this by definition have a limited number of players that can do them. The real question is not if raids need an easy mode, as the Devs have said they won't change raids, but why are we paying for content that we can't play? You can play anything, but may have chosen not to, others can't. In any case, anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, I encourage you to try WvW, it is a very open way to progress, and like many of the best parts of GW2, you can make progress at your own pace, and as long as you contribute, you will gain. Raids are done and dead content, they will not change, but, there are other paths, and I hope anyone reading this topic feeling discouraged about Raids, checks out WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. Kinda like how gw1 is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. > > Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. > > Kinda like how gw1 is now. What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic. As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > > > > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > > > > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > > > > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > > > > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. > > > > Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. > > > > Kinda like how gw1 is now. > > What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic. > > As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace. Unfortunately, I need to get my hands on that Legendary Ring too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > > > > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > > > > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > > > > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > > > > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. > > > > Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. > > > > Kinda like how gw1 is now. > > What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic. > > As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace. Pvp also works too, picked myself up a set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > > > > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > > > > > > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > > > > > > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > > > > > > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > > > > > > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. > > > > > > Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. > > > > > > Kinda like how gw1 is now. > > > > What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic. > > > > As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace. > > Pvp also works too, picked myself up a set. I would suggest sPvP, but it's limited to just when the Tournament is running, which is not ideal for casuals that often will not get to play much, or have limited time to wait in queue's. It's s sound option, but, WvW is far more casual friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > > > **entitled** > > > > > > > > > > adjective UK /ɪnˈtaɪ.təld/ /ɪnˈtaɪ.t̬əld/ disapproving > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > feeling that you have the right to do or have what you want without having to work for it or deserve it, just because of who you are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the 100% of the game open for me, that I don't enjoy casual "do whatever" playing? Should anet do a hard mode of every content in the game? No? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The whole "entitled" meme really needs to go, or at least apply it accurately to raiders who feel that they are uniquely entitled to everything the devs have attached to raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > So play the easy mode. It's 95% of all the content. Is the existence of those 5% for others such a big problem so you cannot possibly let them have it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would if they would add it, which is my point in being here. There is other content, but it is not an easy mode raid, so it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. I have no problem with raiders having their hard mode versions, so long as easy mode versions also exist for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raid, by definition, is not "easy mode". If you want something easy that requires participation of many players, you're wrong, the game is literally *full* of it - from group dynamic events, through metas, to world bosses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But that won't give him the shiny, special effects Envoy armor. Feelsbadman. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t understand the appeal for this Armor, it’s hideous... like just bad looking... it hurts me that it took two years to develop. ? > > > > > > > > > > No argument, Evoy is truly ugly. > > > > > > > > > > It boggles the mind that it took so long to make and it looks so bad. But a large part of that might have been the tech involved as opposed to the art application. > > > > > > > > > > In either case, if anyone just wants Legendary Armor, WvW is an alternative path to people who (like me) don't like Evony the skin. but still want the QoL/BiS features of legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > Raids will not change, the Devs had said this, so no matter what anyone says on this topic or issue, nothing will change. > > > > > > > > Well this may change near the end of Gw2’s life, where they just add a 20 or 25 raid squad. > > > > > > > > Kinda like how gw1 is now. > > > > > > What the future may bring, is not a concern, at this point, the Devs have clearly said they have no plans to revise Raids or change anything, from the mouth of the developers, and I accept that. There will no be an Easy Mode, or a Story Mode, or anything else regarding Raids, no matter what is said on this topic. > > > > > > As such, if anyone at this point is looking for an alternate path for Legendary Armor, and does not want to Raid, I encourage them to check out WvW, it's a very Open World set up, that allows players to progress at their own pace. > > > > Pvp also works too, picked myself up a set. > > I would suggest sPvP, but it's limited to just when the Tournament is running, which is not ideal for casuals that often will not get to play much, or have limited time to wait in queue's. > > It's s sound option, but, WvW is far more casual friendly. Yeah it can be a bit of a time crunch I must admit. I spend almost the majority of my time in the PvP season when it’s up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > i didn't say completion rate, and I was responding to the challenge about the majority, i was merely saying the majority of players play more easy mode than hard mode in any ANY given mmorpg. Are people really so prepared to deny reality for the sake of protecting a tiny niche that could be so much more? its bizarre considering the history of mmorpg and where they have evolved to. Easy content attracts more people than hard content, who would have tought. But it is not about participation rates as ArenaNet is happy with the raid population. The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'. So what is that 'more' you speak of? Forced raids that contains the main story? Gear grind? Raids in other MMORPGs didn't evolve into anything. LFR was developed so it never needed to evolve and they can just work the way they always did because they don't have to argue about spending so much ressources for a small audience. The only thing that changed are the number of people that plays it. Everything else works the same as 10 years ago. We have an eight man team that produces content for 15-20%. With the longest development cicles. Not 50% of the whole content for 10%. > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Meaning the "GW2 experience" is facerolling hordes of monsters that pose no real danger whatsoever. If I wanted that, I'd play Diablo 3. > > Or played GW2, if you wanted Raids and Challenge, you should have played Wildstar, WoW, or a slew of other games. > > Never ceased to amaze me that people would come to this faceroll game and then cry that it was too easy and needs to be like said harder game.. but didn't want to go play said harder game. > > But I think that point was made few dozen times over on this topic as well. > > In the end, Raids are not going to change, no matter what we say here. > > Anyone looking for alternate path to Legendary Armor, please check out WvW or sPvP. You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference. > I got that response last time, and shot int down over the course of the next 5 or 6 pages.. will I do that again? Nope. The end consensus (or grudging admittance) on this topic was that No one believe this.. not even raiders or the people that say it... and especially not the Anet Devs. In the end, anyone that does not want to bother with Raids, I encourage them to move on from that content, and head over to WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference. > > > > I got that response last time, and shot int down over the course of the next 5 or 6 pages.. will I do that again? Nope. > > The end consensus (or grudging admittance) on this topic was that No one believe this.. not even raiders or the people that say it... and especially not the Anet Devs. > > In the end, anyone that does not want to bother with Raids, I encourage them to move on from that content, and head over to WvW. Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. GW2 always contained challenges. And now it's bad hmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference. > > > > > > > I got that response last time, and shot int down over the course of the next 5 or 6 pages.. will I do that again? Nope. > > > > The end consensus (or grudging admittance) on this topic was that No one believe this.. not even raiders or the people that say it... and especially not the Anet Devs. > > > > In the end, anyone that does not want to bother with Raids, I encourage them to move on from that content, and head over to WvW. > > Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. GW2 always contained challenges. And now it's bad hmm? Lets see... You listed.. 2 dead dungeons, not only dead, but outright abandoned directly by Anet for being failures, and a 1 time event that was never mimicked...and that is your stand by to say this is a good idea? Yup.. not having this discussion again. But no matter,. Anet Devs have said that Raids won't be changing, so, going though the words and motions with you at this point won't do any good. Anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, but not wanting to do Raids, WvW, (World Vs World), which can be brought up by hitting B in game, is a great alternative, just pick the Glorious Armor reward track, and head out into the big Open World and try to stay alive long enough to earn some pips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'. No, it doesn't. >Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. All content that was considerably more accessible than raids are. If raids were on the level of that content then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everything is a matter of degrees. Raids are just a bridge too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > You know, GW2 was advertised with challenges. And it slowly shifted towards them during LS1 and 2. You could also finally realise that casual content not means faceroll easy but how you work towards your goals. No huge chunks of time needed but you can complete them in small steps. Raids work the same way actually. One week to clear a wing, small wings with a low number of encounters. Many casuals enjoy a occascional challange. GW2 is to 100% casual-friendly but it doesn't hand you everything on a silver plate. Huge difference. > > > > > > > > > > I got that response last time, and shot int down over the course of the next 5 or 6 pages.. will I do that again? Nope. > > > > > > The end consensus (or grudging admittance) on this topic was that No one believe this.. not even raiders or the people that say it... and especially not the Anet Devs. > > > > > > In the end, anyone that does not want to bother with Raids, I encourage them to move on from that content, and head over to WvW. > > > > Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. GW2 always contained challenges. And now it's bad hmm? > > Lets see... You listed.. 2 dead dungeons, not only dead, but outright abandoned directly by Anet for being failures, and a 1 time event that was never mimicked...and that is your stand by to say this is a good idea? > > Yup.. not having this discussion again. > > But no matter,. Anet Devs have said that Raids won't be changing, so, going though the words and motions with you at this point won't do any good. > > Anyone looking to get Legendary Armor, but not wanting to do Raids, WvW, (World Vs World), which can be brought up by hitting B in game, is a great alternative, just pick the Glorious Armor reward track, and head out into the big Open World and try to stay alive long enough to earn some pips. I’m incredibly grateful that there are options for Legendary Armor. Personally, I wouldn’t have dived so deep into the sPvp as far as I did. I also hear from many WvWers that the Legendary Armor in WvW was an amazing addition to the game mode. So I’m really thankful that Anet put these methods in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'. > > No, it doesn't. > > >Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. > > All content that was considerably more accessible than raids are. If raids were on the level of that content then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everything is a matter of degrees. Raids are just a bridge too far. Liadri was definitely raid tier difficulty. Solo. But raid tier difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'. > > > > No, it doesn't. > > > > >Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. > > > > All content that was considerably more accessible than raids are. If raids were on the level of that content then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everything is a matter of degrees. Raids are just a bridge too far. > > Liadri was definitely raid tier difficulty. Solo. But raid tier difficulty. Ok, Liadri was, but that was one encounter that offered nothing more than a single mini. There was no story, no bigger prize than that. I wouldn't mind more Liadris. *much.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > The most active LFG disagrees with 'tiny niche'. > > > > > > No, it doesn't. > > > > > > >Queens gauntlet? Aetherpath? Even Arah. All content that got never cleared by a majority and yet it got released around the first year, Aetherpath bit later October 2013. > > > > > > All content that was considerably more accessible than raids are. If raids were on the level of that content then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Everything is a matter of degrees. Raids are just a bridge too far. > > > > Liadri was definitely raid tier difficulty. Solo. But raid tier difficulty. > > Ok, Liadri was, but that was one encounter that offered nothing more than a single mini. There was no story, no bigger prize than that. I wouldn't mind more Liadris. *much.* All of them were fairly hard though with challenging difficult mechanics. Even the weakest of them, Halmi Hammerfel, repeatedly dunked on most players several times before they'd get a kill. I remember getting a lot of joy watching players try and fail to kill bosses in the gauntlet. The quaggan was were most people gave up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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