Let’s Talk About Marketing...

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Hey, Mike..were you in charge of some of the videos posted here from other games? If so, then work your magic on GW2 videos!

Didn't the fanbase from the other games you worked on enjoy interacting with you, like we do?

 

And a slightly belated....Welcome to Tyria!

[Kaizok.7839]

Just to say, there already contest for weapon skin.... why not making one for a trailer for GW2 ?

Then the winner will have a title in game or anything else.

 

(Yeah, Elon Musk did it too for Tesla... but that mean it's a good idea :3 )

[nighthawke.3075]

i think if your heart set on using player quotes you need to re-enforce them with gameplay. for example you start with a quote about the appearance of the crystal desert but show balthazar instead, i think you should have shown some wide views of the vistas. it would help to re-enforce that the mounts are gameplay mechanics not just eye candy. i'd slo pull quotes from multiple game modes. some 5v5 pvp and possibly some LARGE scale wvw a huge meta event like dragonstand or pawaladan. some fractal fights you get the idea. there is alot to do in this game but most of the people i know that dont play think there isnt much to do.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @Kaizok.7839 said:

> Just to say, there already contest for weapon skin.... why not making one for a trailer for GW2 ?

> Then the winner will have a title in game or anything else.

>

> (Yeah, Elon Musk did it too for Tesla... but that mean it's a good idea :3 )

 

Well, there's already one (just ended, I believe) sponsored not by ArenaNet, but by one of their partner Content Creators (WP). The grand prize is fantastic (all Legendary Gen1 Weapons, I think). Maybe Mike should take a gander at the entries. /shrug

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

I re-read through this thread and I thought about it for quite some time and I think for the trailer you're making to attract new players, these are some of the best things to include:

 

- sweeping shots of the landscape, as someone said, to give a sense of grand scale

- no player quotes, as they seem self-congratulatory

- as well as the cinematic shots, include some gameplay (I guess with no UI), good cinematics of mounts using their appropriate abilities, good combat video against a PoF boss showing how you can and need to be agile with dodging and directing yourself (include abilities of new elites), shots of the visual diversity of the player characters featured

- good inspiring music - someone said it had to be "epic". Personally, I disagree, I think more "majestic" music fits better. I don't think MMOs suit the level of urgency that fits action RPG games like Dark Souls, but I think Guild Wars 2's strong point is that sense of discovery and wonder, more of a journey. I don't think the music should sound too stressful

- maybe something like "Tyria awaits you..." in the classic GW2 fadeout font, to appeal to old and new players in one statement

- for each quotation included in the draft video... instead of a quotation, show that feature happening

 

 

Thanks again for reaching out to us Sibs! :-) :+1:

[Chickenooble.5014]

> @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

> I re-read through this thread and I thought about it for quite some time and I think for the trailer you're making to attract new players, these are some of the best things to include:

>

> - sweeping shots of the landscape, as someone said, to give a sense of grand scale

> - no player quotes, as they seem self-congratulatory

> - as well as the cinematic shots, include some gameplay (I guess with no UI), good cinematics of mounts using their appropriate abilities, good combat video against a PoF boss showing how you can and need to be agile with dodging and directing yourself (include abilities of new elites), shots of the visual diversity of the player characters featured

> - good inspiring music - someone said it had to be "epic". Personally, I disagree, I think more "majestic" music fits better. I don't think MMOs suit the level of urgency that fits action RPG games like Dark Souls, but I think Guild Wars 2's strong point is that sense of discovery and wonder, more of a journey. I don't think the music should sound too stressful

> - maybe something like "Tyria awaits you..." in the classic GW2 fadeout font, to appeal to old and new players in one statement

> - for each quotation included in the draft video... instead of a quotation, show that feature happening

>

>

> Thanks again for reaching out to us Sibs! :-) :+1:

All well and good but it needs to also tell people the core game is free to play, that the expansion is low priced, and that there are no subscription fees ever. Telling someone they can get that quality content and experience that you described for FREE (or $30) is huge methinks.

[Drecien.4508]

I concur with the others, who are these people. Maybe start at the beginning and say "Here's what our players are saying" and for the font, have it appear and disappear like the logo- all sand like being blow on and off the screen. Maybe get some critics to chime in, Game informer, meta critic, others i cant think of.

[X T D.6458]

> @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > First, I would not use quotes from the forum, use narration with a Gaelic/Celtic voice (It is just perfect for narrating). This makes it look like you are only cherry picking and showing the stuff that's favorable to you. It's why I never watch videos that people post of themselves from youtube, they are always edited to make themselves look good. Use lines from the game, many of your trailers have great narration, use that instead.

> > > >

> > > > Second, I never see GW2 advertised anywhere except for the occasional online link. If you had the resources to produce a television ad, it could bring in a lot of interest and new players. Maybe try hooking up with Steam, that can connect a ton of potential customers to GW2, and other Anet/NcSoft games.

> > > >

> > > > Third, marketing needs to focus on changing consumer emotions and thoughts. That music is good, but you need to add something stronger that makes the blood flow. Music is a powerful tool that can affect how people feel and think, and more importantly how they associate those feelings with a product. The visual aspect needs to display what a player can do. You can be sexy, heroic, and embark on great adventures in a huge world. Showing some npc's walking around does not do that. Showing a player exploring a beautiful map, and suddenly getting attacked by an enormous beast ambushing them while the music shifts from peaceful to heart pounding and combative, does that. It makes people more interested.

> > >

> >

> > > Thank you for this. I agree that we need to go broader with our advertising. TV and Out of Home is something we need to consider, particularly to engage new players.

> > >

> > > Music is key to tap into the emotional connection and leaning on our beautiful content is key, particularly when we show to player experience.

> >

> > I would like to say thank you for this thread. I always appreciate it when staff are engaged in a discussion with players and interested in feedback on how to improve something.

> >

> > I'd also like to add that it should not be focused solely on PoF. I don't mean to sound like PoF does not have a lot of great things to show off, but so does the rest of the game. The Mouth of Mordremoth for example, kitten amazing. If you show a shot of that thing coming up behind a player who then slowly turns around for example. Show off the diverse scenery. I personally love the Shiverpeaks areas, the majestic snow capped mountains are just beautiful.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 also has the absolute best combat system of any MMO out there. It needs to be showcased.

>

> I should be the one thanking you and the rest of the GW2 community. I NEVER expected to recieve so many responders...much less such thoughtful and constructive feedback. I am so proud to be working at ArenaNet, on GW2 with this amazing group of gamers.

>

> You’re absolutly right that we need to show off all of GW2 in order to engage new players. The ArenaNet marketing team is discussing how we do exactly this with new content and the GW2.com website. Stay tuned as we move forward and reach out for more insights from the community. :-)

 

As a life long gamer, I can appreciate the kind of company Anet is. I may not always agree with everything you folks do, but even aggressive criticism comes from a desire to want to see the game and the company succeed and grow. GW2 is a special game, as was GW1, both have helped me get through a lot of rough times. I know there are many others that also share that special personal sentiment. I am happy to help in whatever small way I can. And I am eager to see what comes in the future.

 

Thanks again for this thread, your interest in our feedback, and the kind words.

[Drew.1865]

Visual artist here. Not a white knight so my opinion is not influenced by anything. I think the video is terrific. I like the quotes also even though I don’t agree with every one. My only suggestion is to keep focused on the mounts in future marketing. You guys did a terrific job with them. Maybe show some of the cool new skins with crazy colors. That celestial griffon skin would be great.

[oac.6809]

i'll put what i feel is my most important point first: that i would suggest gauging what piques the interests of past players of GW and GW2 who no longer play, as well as other MMO players in general who never found the appeal of GW2. what are some things that will resonate those types of players? i would hazard a guess to say that nearly everyone in this thread is already currently playing the game and therefore, this marketing is not targeted at them. it's certainly not targeted at me. i actually took a long break from the game and recently came because i had missed it in general. i didn't even know about Path of Fire at all (or Heart of Thorns for that matter).

 

 

and onto my own feedback, i have to say that this trailer doesn't really do it for me, but i'll also caveat again that it isn't really targeted towards me since i'm already currently playing.

 

i like the music and really appreciate how it synched up with the action, but nothing else really resonated with me, unfortunately.

 

the framing of the shots seem a bit claustrophobic, and if i had not already explored a lot of the crystal desert, i wouldn't have any idea of how it looks to be honest.

while i think the trailers have to be made to fit into a certain time, i felt that the pacing of the trailer was leading to something, some battle with balthazar or after the commander dismounted or something, but it ended before that could happen and just went to the title screen. i think tension that builds like but doesn't pay off in an actual battle can be built in a compelling way, but i don't think it was achieved here.

 

 

from my personal opinion, vistas are a vital part of exploring the game and showing off its beauty and design. if i were to craft a trailer, i would start with one of those, maybe the statue of joko in vabbi. i think showing the flags and celebration in amnoon would be great. i would maybe dub over dialogue from the story that is as non-spoilerish as possible to try to set the tone of this area. i would show off some of the many different fun new enemies from all sizes and shapes, but especially the choya pinata to show that the game is still fun and silly when it wants to be

and i would definitely show off the mounts in action (because i really do agree that they are a great new addition to the game and quite possibly my favourite addition since i've been back), show the leaps, jumps, teleports, a skimmer being mounted over water, a pan and scan overhead shot of a race starting up, and closing with a fully-leveled griffon doing some crazy tricks like diving through a canyon or flying through amnoon port (it's been out long enough that i think it's a shame to hide it anymore; the griffon is truly amazing and many players who have the griffon don't understand completely how it works)

[Crinn.7864]

Quotes don't sell games, epic does.

[Dashiva.6149]

> @Severdnerv.4523 said:

>

 

 

Why have I never seen this before!? Recommending Gw2 to my friends through gameplay and features has been easy enough, but trying to sell the story to new players with no previous insight has been a challenge. "Movie"-trailers like these are immensly helpful in that regard.

 

> @Drew.1865 said:

> Visual artist here. Not a white knight so my opinion is not influenced by anything. I think the video is terrific. I like the quotes also even though I don’t agree with every one. My only suggestion is to keep focused on the mounts in future marketing. You guys did a terrific job with them. Maybe show some of the cool new skins with crazy colors. That celestial griffon skin would be great.

 

Wouldn't that set some false expectations, though? They get the game, and then discover that they have to go through a "second purchase" to get that cool thing in the trailer. In my experience, people are not a fan of hidden costs like that.

Show of the mounts for sure, but make sure that what you see is what you get.

[Seaunicorn.9317]

Firs of all, thanks for reaching out to the community.. One area you should definitely focus is on the music. While the PoF music in itself is good while we play the game, for me, its not upbeat enough to get goosebumps in a 1 min promo video. You need to get the sense of ever present danger, extreme urgency, elation, curiosity, the unprecedented wonder & magic that GW2 has to offer. And tbh, PoF music is too calm for that. If you get the music right, you make the new players watch the video twice/thrice and make them see/read all the subtle things you put into the video. This is what how i feel about all the promo videos ever

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @Dashiva.6149 said:

> > @Severdnerv.4523 said:

> >

>

>

> Why have I never seen this before!? Recommending Gw2 to my friends through gameplay and features has been easy enough, but trying to sell the story to new players with no previous insight has been a challenge. "Movie"-trailers like these are immensly helpful in that regard.

>

> > @Drew.1865 said:

> > Visual artist here. Not a white knight so my opinion is not influenced by anything. I think the video is terrific. I like the quotes also even though I don’t agree with every one. My only suggestion is to keep focused on the mounts in future marketing. You guys did a terrific job with them. Maybe show some of the cool new skins with crazy colors. That celestial griffon skin would be great.

>

> Wouldn't that set some false expectations, though? They get the game, and then discover that they have to go through a "second purchase" to get that cool thing in the trailer. In my experience, people are not a fan of hidden costs like that.

> Show of the mounts for sure, but make sure that what you see is what you get.

 

You've likely not seen that particular video before because it is fan-made, rather than official. (I'd not seen it before, either.)

[rank eleven monk.9502]

Just one very short note that would help a lot for **someone who has never played GW2 before**:

 

Actual, non-cinematic combat gameplay, even just for a few seconds (with UI, skills and everything). Something that does not give away anything from the story, but shows how beautiful the game in action is.

 

Every game I've played got me how the gameplay feels and looks like. And I really think that's a very strong point of GW2.

[Cynz.9437]

Was a single pvper asked for feedback for this lol?

[Cyrin.1035]

Well I certainly enjoyed the test trailer :p Thanks for including my quote!

 

I think the most important thing the trailer needs is a connection to potential players. What we see in this trailer are snippets of things happening with statements from fans that have already played, but if I had never played GW 2, I wouldn't be completely compelled to drop whatever game I am currently invested in to try out GW 2. What does this game have to offer that my current MMORPG doesn't? The trailer is meant to be short and to the point, but even in that small space of time the connection is never really established.

 

The unreleased trailer shows mounts very well and a few of the landscapes and architectural designs, but what about the life of the Crystal Desert? The Sunspears, Awakened, and the people of Amnoon just living in this place that tells us it's not just good guys fighting bad guys. The amazing Sulfuric Wasteland you have to glide or skim over to safely traverse. The massive, detailed bone wall structure. The large and open maps feel small when most of the trailer is close-ups of a few characters fighting or armies blurred in the background.

 

Who exactly is the antagonist and why do we as heroes need to stop them? There isn't a decent showcase of our abilities as any of the professions or indication that we can play multiple races other than Human. All the stand-out features GW 2 had before mounts are not really presented here. It looks too much like a generic, good guy vs bad guy fighting MMO that every other MMO is. But as we all know, GW 2 isn't just that. What GW 2 and especially this expansion have to offer, isn't properly presented with this trailer. There are many images of the same features where other features could be shown.

 

-----

 

Effective marketing depends on so much, especially timing, but I just think back to what really caught my interest the first time I saw promotion for GW 2. It was that first trailer... this one:

 

 

I played GW 1 all the time and I was excited when I heard about the sequel, but it wasn't until I saw that trailer that I felt something incredible was on the way. It looked like an entirely new game and like nothing I've ever seen before. Even compared to GW 1. The reason I felt that was because in the trailer the cornerstones of what define and make GW 2 interesting and unique were laid out in a way that a new player could comprehend and easily latch onto.

 

The trailer establishes right away that there is an engaging, lore-filled story featuring a formidable antagonist in the form of massive and powerful dragons. Then the trailer goes on to outline more of the most exciting things the game has to offer:

 

There are multiple playable races that are fighting back against the dragons, each with their own story and design. Varieties of landscapes and locations. There's a day and night cycle. The ongoing life and commotion in each area showing a living, breathing world from ambient to sentient. The level of detail that shows there is a story behind everything and makes us want to explore and discover everything about the world. The lively music that just elevates the entire experience and tells us how much quality the creators are putting into every aspect of the game. The artwork cinematics alone show the level of quality we can expect in the game that is clearly different than any other game's style.

 

The trailer was just filled with surprises and so much to look forward to. We're left with mystery and intrigue to play and find out what this game is all about.

 

Even the way the camera moves around without feeling limited as if the world has so much to explore. The ending rapid montage makes it feel like the creators behind it are so excited to show more. All of that combines to make the potential new player completely captivated and curious to at least try the game out.

 

GW 1 and 2's style and features are IMO better than any other MMORPG's out there and marketing those qualities is likely the best way to grab and hold the attention of new player's.

 

Sharing the thoughts of the community's players is also essential because it shows both that the game has a dedicated fanbase and that they are still thoroughly enjoying the game up to this point. This shows longevity to new players giving them more incentive to invest their time. I would, however, make those smaller in the frame and not the focus of the image, but an addition to it that further reinforces reason to try the game.

[Ghotistyx.6942]

> @"Mike Silbowitz.1827" said:

> P.S. - Only one of the quotes came from a hobo but I promise he was NOT bribed. ;-)

 

I have no recollection of providing a quote.

[Shinzan.2908]

A seemingly chery-picked quote by johnrandom125 wouldn't go far towards making me get a game, it's what bad movies do when they can't get a recommendation from an actual critic. For each johnrandom who likes it there's likely a joerandom who doesn't. Percentages or ratings would be more usefull here imo, if 80% of those randomjohns and randomjoes think the game is good, that actually has some merit.

 

Another thing is that when the quote begins or ends with three dots, like "The crystal desert is absolutely gorgeous...", the cynic in me has me think the actual quote easily might have been "The crystal desert is absolutely gorgeous, unfortunately it's a pain to traverse." or something similarly taken out of context.

[LanfearShadowflame.3189]

Wandering in a little late to the thread here, and I'm not sure if anyone else shares my PoV here (as I skipped most of the comments) but I'll toss it out there none the less. For me, there's "too much" text in the clip. I end up watching for the text and miss the vast majority of the game footage. For someone like my husband, who doesn't read quickly, he'd completely miss the background footage that's trying to be presented. I suppose if you're trying to make some people watch it twice, that's great, but I don't think many potential players that are looking for a new game would necessarily.

[Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489]

So, positive feedback first;

Great quality on the images.

 

Negative feedback;

* Quotes. Like, who are these people? Why do I care what a player (read: white knight) thinks about a game?

* Stale footage, it's either re-use of old trailer material or a mount running in a straight circle. (which is also re-used from the PoF trailer)

 

**Suggestions:**

More gameplay footage, as has been mentioned several times. I came to GW2 from GW1, so me moving over was a nobrainer, but one of the teasers that got me the most hyped about gw2 was the [mesmer reveal video ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlr3g3yZZVk "https://youtube.com/watch?v=Wlr3g3yZZVk") More of this please.

 

You could have a 1 minute video where the first 5-10 seconds is one (or 10) players flying towards a boss on griffons, swooping down and engaging combat with the skill 1. Could also have all the mounts represented but idk how to do this due to the different movement speeds. This could be done as both cgi and gameplay footage, and have say all 9 PoF elites represented and killing the enemy. I think this would be really great for highlighting the best aspects of Guild Wars 2, the **actual** gameplay, and **teamwork**.

 

With cool editing this could be any current boss that would take at least 10 people to kill, jumping between perspectives of the different players. All with the amazing landscapes of the desert as a backdrop. Also, please show off the nightsky in Elona. It's absolutely amazing.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

Stop with the shit quote posts.

You're latest quote on the gw2 Facebook had me laughing.

"Path of Fire has everything"

Everything of what? The only thing PoF brought to the entire game were mounts.

Everything else has always been here.

You clearly do not care what anyone says. You're going to continue with white knight quotes.

You're also only marketing PoF. Not the game. Which seems pointless.

The core game is free

Its 30$ to get all of the game(except of course living story)

WvW-PvP-PvE-raids-fractals.

No one plays this game for the story, or empty quotes of strangers.

This doesn't show GW2, not sure who this is marketed to.

 

[DarcShriek.5829]

Quoting players about how great the game is only makes the ad look worse in my opinion. Thanks for asking for my opinion though.

[Mike Silbowitz.1827]

> @Zlater.6789 said:

> Hi Sibs,

> I really like what you are doing and if you didn't make this post I was thinking it might be good to even make such a thing myself. Its really amazing how you have such easy access to consumer opinions and you have so many consumer advocates here in gw2, there is tremendous opportunity to reach a very large audience. As a bit of a sidetrack I'm studying a marketing major at university, and this is really fun for me to talk about, I hope my tiny bit of free market research will mean something to you.

>

>

>

> Firstly I just want to comment on what others have said here. One of the biggest things that I have seen pop up is the eve online trailer "This is Eve", it's definitely my favorite marketing message for any game company. To that end I believe the best place to start is by taking this god-tier marketing example and contrast it to the one you have given us to look at.

> The first thing that stands out is that eve totally immerses the viewer into the game. It not only sinks you into the game but more importantly it gives you a place or a rank, so to speak, with the other players there. We can talk about how this appeals to a consumer's sense of belonging which is a need that Maslow talks about, we can talk about McClelland and the need for a sense of affiliation, how it makes you feel powerful even. (eve online really isn't nearly as social as that trailer makes us think it is, so do you think it was an accident that they decided to hammer the social aspect of it so hard?) Then when they see these massive ships they think "that could be me?" "I could fly that?" that's talking about need recognition and self-concept theory and more. Even that scene with the massive payload is a strategically placed bit of Freudian theory.

> They made playing the game feel so easy and seamless, gratifying and welcoming, honestly, I think that every single person here kinda wants to play eve after seeing that trailer. However, after seeing the trailer you gave us to look at, I felt a different way.

>

> In the new trailer, the only thing I saw was lifeless NPC's and audio trying to add emotion, to make them seem and feel more human than what they actually are. That sort of a message would have worked 10 years ago I think, today however people are smarter and they know the difference between a robot and a human.

>

> **Straight away** my suggestion for improvement is to use players in your trailers instead of cutscenes and NPCs.

> **Secondly,** I would put much more impressive scenery in the game. I personally would definitely want to be capitalizing on a lot on the new stuff, forget the risen who is well overdue for higher resolution models, I would be putting footage of players using that underworld sky path in the new raid.

> **Lastly and most importantly,** I would be putting player social interaction into every marketing message I could. Let's get real, people aren't looking at gw2 because they want more single-player gameplay, they don't join for story content and kitten looking balthazars. Tell me what do people want out of gw2 more than anything else?

> They want to join guilds and make friends, they want to face difficult challenges as a group of friends, they want to have fun poking jokes and talking about experiences, they want to show off their sexy new armor to their friends and win their admiration and most of all they want a place they can be accepted.

> I know the reality is different when people play gw2 they spend most of their time solo or in unorganized groups, that's why your metrics will say something different, but it doesn't change what they want. Show people how they can fly griffons in packs at high speeds, show people having fun in difficult content (a music guild tries to raid anyone), let's see that footage of crazy guild events and people chanting in wvw. I believe this is a better way to appeal to our consumer's emotional state.

>

>

>

> Consider something like [this](https://media.giphy.com/media/26FfgbIyE9N5hQau4/giphy.gif "this") without the bug and with much better resolution.

>

> Well that's my little bit, I hope you find it useful and please don't be hesitant to criticize anything I've said. I kinda have to restrain myself because I have 3 more assessments due tomorrow and making this into an essay is probably not a smart decision xD but I think I covered the big part that I really wanted to cover. I will edit later if I can remember anything glaringly massive. Thanks for reading my post, I hope you find it useful!

 

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. The EVE video is a really great example. This thoughtful constructive feedback will be considered for this video as well as future assets. :-)

[st elmos fire.2987]

You need to make 2 videos. One 10 minute long to advertise the entire game and then this 1 minute long vid to tell about the newest goods. The game is like completely different now compared to its launch and I think it should have a new trailer to show what the entire GW2 is right now.

Now to this videos feedback. I agree on many other ppls opinions so far in this thread. Imo it needs a lot more power. It looks cool but very mediocre and if you want ppl to leave their current games and start a new one from zero and actually stay with it longer than 5h of free to play experience you need to hit them hard. Like a god damn train wreck right in their face. Right now its like "look some random ppl like this game. It has mounts now and some story is happening. It allso looks pretty." Imo it should say "OMG! look at this god damn epick flying griffon mount. Its like a god damn fighter jet when it swoops down and through narrow canyons. But thats not all! There is bunch of more mounts that have more super cool mechaniks. And my sweet baby jesus there is a fkn mount everest sized dragon right on our faces and new story is being poured in faster than we can play it trough" Balthazar looked pretty cool on the vid allready. It was nice. But ye. Dont just show mediocre stuff that any game could have. Show them the best of the best. Hit them hard! GW 2 has that potential to blow ppls minds. Just show it to them.

Great work a net. Im happy and proud to be a GW2 player. Keep it up. And really nice to see more and more devs on forums lately.