Druid, ranger, pets, AI and you.

[Razor.6392]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > >

> > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > >

> > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > >

> > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > >

> > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > >

> > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> >

> > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> >

> > >ranger/druid at a top level

> >

> > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

>

> "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

>

> Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

>

> It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

>

> But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

 

Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

 

Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

 

But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

 

Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

 

 

[ZhouX.8742]

> @brannigan.9831 said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > @Rezzet.3614 said:

> > > Ranger pets should be killable in 1 v1 s if focused right now this is impossible why should ranger be the only profession with unkillable ai units? Engineer turrets got nerfed because they were tanky despite not doing damage and those took utility slots

> >

> > They are. Should a bunker build really be able to kill them easily? If so warriors/cronos would one shot them. Name one other profession where its entire secondary mechanic can be put on extended cool down?

> >

> > Pets can easily be kited. Their DPS is significantly reduced by just moving. Throw in moving around obstacles and they produce virtually no damage.> @Nix.3152 said:

> > > druids tilt me more than anything else in the game. stupid healbots who tank eveything and heal to full after that. run around shoot stupid beam while pet is eating you. basicly pet is more usefull than ranger himself.

> > > ps ranger is not a real class.

> >

> > You have problems if you can't deal with a ranger on a holosmith. You should hard counter them with your hard cc and burst. Not to mention you have the tools to disengage and heal to full just as easily as a ranger without having to spec at all in healing power.

>

> Come on man he is talking about 1v1 situations on a point. So you just going to give up the point to the ranger? I don't really see a huge deal with pets because in general when I duel a ranger the fight is decided by whoever gets a +1 first or I kill the ranger if he is bad but really they need to be balanced a little to make them a little fairer in those situations but not hurt them too much so in bigger fights they die too easily. Killing the pet should be a viable strategy in some instances. It is not at least not in 2v2 or less and for you to say so is pretty close to a lie and they can just insta summon another so basically you would have to kill it 2x. I mean I agree in some ways that the ranger is just a poorly conceived class in general and the pet needs to be really strong almost regardless of speccing anything into it but maybe one of these expansions A-net would think about fixing that. The pet is durability is dumb though I run a power spike build on my Guardian that hits as hard as anything in the game and trust me Im not killing the pet before I get killed by the ranger if thats the tact I tried to use. We are talking 100% crit chance the highest ferocity in the game might stacking very close to 25 all the time and two hand weapons.

 

Except condi mirage / condi chrono can bunk points as well and do more damage, and have portal. There's essentially 2 classes now dedicated to far point bunking now that they toned down bunker rev, spellbreaker and condi thief. Mesmer and ranger. Let's not forget rotation exists (which makes condi mirage even deadlier, more mobility and most importantly portal) and +1's exist.

 

If you think the major problem with PvP right now is either of those classes though, you're sadly mistaken. You'd have to look much deeper to see the issues that lay in a majority of other things and not necessarily 1 or 2 classes. Changing druid in the form of nerfs or adjustments will not change the plaguing problem that Gw2 PvP has and will not increase your enjoyment in the PvP experience that you have currently with Gw2 and it wouldn't be a good start, there's far worse problems that need attention over how a far point bunker performs in the game mode.

 

Either way, if ranger gets nerfed yet again, I don't think it would be much of a surprise. I think it has been one of the classes that has seen the most nerfs and shaves both to the pet and profession since HoT dropped. I believe smokescale has been nerfed about 4-5 times already, same with bristleback (which is why wyvern is taken generally over bristle now). Surprisingly due to the nature of druid mechanics, it has stayed into a meta spot semi-consistently.

 

Rangers are essentially used to nerfs, and are pigeonholed into one build that is viable , druid. Even with the release of Soulbeast this still applies.

 

*Some notable things to help some build viability to push away from druid would be simply 2 things:*

 

1. Swapping beast mode while melded to your pet in Soulbeast

2. Have full control of the pet's abilities in the form of F-* keys.

 

But giving rangers ability control over pets would just result in more crying, right now cc and secondary abilities are entirely random from pets, *anything entirely random immediately lowers skill ceiling and increases skill floor*. This would lower skill floor and massively increase the skill ceiling to the point where you'd most likely see the abilities nerfed to compensate for it and make them essentially useless so the points are moot.

 

Soulbeast ATTEMPTS to do that, give control of melded abilities to the ranger, but it's not the same as full control of un-melded pet skills so you'll always have that randomization.

 

Either way the point is this, each class has some specific purposes to it that make it what it is. Obviously, the balance team has taken druid and said that it should be a far point bunker. It used to be a more team oriented bunker similar to tempest but they shaved healing power coefficients making it redundant. There is no other way to put it, it is what it is.

 

I'm not sure there's many top rangers who even LOVE playing bunker druid no matter how effective it is, most prefer to yolo with soulbeast but the reality is that but it serves a role and has a purpose against specific comps, therefore it is used. You can't remove aspects of the druid without compensating, and you can't flat nerf pets without compensation. The compensation for nerfs to even be worth it would be the 2 points I put above.

 

But again, full control over pets and swapping in soulbeast has been something that has been requested for a long time now by the ranger community as a whole, nobody likes randomized attacks , too hard to capitalize on. It's hard enough seeing when to capitalize on the random knockdown by the smokescale. Having that in our control would greatly benefit the class as a whole, but again that would definitely lead to more crying.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > >

> > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > >

> > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > >

> > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > >

> > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > >

> > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > >

> > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > >

> > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> >

> > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> >

> > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> >

> > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> >

> > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

>

> Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

>

> Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

>

> But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

>

> Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

>

>

 

" Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO"

 

Yes and I would be quick to point you have no understanding or an in-depth understanding of how conquest works or how druid works in general. To assume that a druid needs to press f1 and forget their pet is a quick pointer to know you have absolutely no understanding of the class when played by an actually good player, again, in upper tier coordinated play.

 

As far as top tier players vs regular players... Well, I mean there is a massive divide of skill between average players who continually come to the forums claiming something is overpowered and broken , then you have actual top tier/skilled players who barely ever visit the forums and actually come up with strategies to counter against the very things regular players consistently complain about. I think besides Chaith, what other top players do you ever see coming here to discuss balance? The answer will be nobody else, because they don't need to. Also, most of Chaith's time is spent on these forums debunking the misinformation being spit out on the forums by players who lack in depth understandings of the class , in his case Engineer and Holosmith most importantly. Similar to you with druid.

 

Top players generally strategize and theory craft team comps and build options around typically complaining on the forums and usually come up with team counters to specific things that everybody would deem OP - this is essentially how counter comps are generally formed and there is counter comps to make druid essentially useless. This is a team game after all, not a 1on1 game. This alone makes the idea of druid counter-able in a conquest team game mode.

 

I think the only thing that would warrant being absolutely broken right now is scourge, it has a massive impact beyond everything else - but this is also due to being teamed up with a Firebrand. How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself. It fills a specific purpose in a wide of options in the conquest game mode. Again, it has counters and strategic +1's by a mesmer or thief, as well as rotation and for class specifics: mesmer and some other classes can force druid off to even neutralize the point.

 

There is no question about this, I'm sorry if you fall into the regular player crowd, this is not my fault but only your own.

 

As for PvP being dead, it is, as much as you may think it's not. There is very little to what's left in this community and given the team's inability to actually communicate with their playerbase in this game mode it doesn't help much at all.

 

I apologize if my comment hurt your feelings, but these are realities you must accept unfortunately.

[Razor.6392]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > > > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > > > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > > > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > > > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > > > > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > > > > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > > > > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > > > > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

> > > >

> > > > 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> > > > 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> > > > 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> > > > 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> > > > 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

> > > >

> > > > >ranger/druid at a top level

> > > >

> > > > I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

> > >

> > > "I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

> > >

> > > Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

> > >

> > > It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

> > >

> > > But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.

> >

> > Keep nitpicking and calling me names. That helps your argument a lot. Asking for more counterplay and skill in this forsaken game doesn't mean I'm a terrible player.

> >

> > Poor soul. I would rather be dead than pretend to be an elitist in a game where the pvp aspect is completely dead but hey, at least you can be pretend to be popular somewhere xD

> >

> > But hey, it's fine because 1 build (that is unanimously perceived as overpowered) supposedly kills druid. Geez dude, it's like you repel logic as much as you repel girls.

> >

> > Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO

> >

> >

>

> " Like, we're all talking about mechanics and ability design here and you come blabbing about rotations and +1s, it's like you 'top tier' pvpers are so drowned in your own nonsense that you keep mentioning incoherent details without noticing and probably in your everyday life as well LMAO"

>

> Yes and I would be quick to point you have no understanding or an in-depth understanding of how conquest works or how druid works in general. To assume that a druid needs to press f1 and forget their pet is a quick pointer to know you have absolutely no understanding of the class when played by an actually good player, again, in upper tier coordinated play.

>

> As far as top tier players vs regular players... Well, I mean there is a massive divide of skill between average players who continually come to the forums claiming something is overpowered and broken , then you have actual top tier/skilled players who barely ever visit the forums and actually come up with strategies to counter against the very things regular players consistently complain about. I think besides Chaith, what other top players do you ever see coming here to discuss balance? The answer will be nobody else, because they don't need to. Also, most of Chaith's time is spent on these forums debunking the misinformation being spit out on the forums by players who lack in depth understandings of the class , in his case Engineer and Holosmith most importantly. Similar to you with druid.

>

> Top players generally strategize and theory craft team comps and build options around typically complaining on the forums and usually come up with team counters to specific things that everybody would deem OP - this is essentially how counter comps are generally formed and there is counter comps to make druid essentially useless. This is a team game after all, not a 1on1 game. This alone makes the idea of druid counter-able in a conquest team game mode.

>

> I think the only thing that would warrant being absolutely broken right now is scourge, it has a massive impact beyond everything else - but this is also due to being teamed up with a Firebrand. How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself. It fills a specific purpose in a wide of options in the conquest game mode. Again, it has counters and strategic +1's by a mesmer or thief, as well as rotation and for class specifics: mesmer and some other classes can force druid off to even neutralize the point.

>

> There is no question about this, I'm sorry if you fall into the regular player crowd, this is not my fault but only your own.

>

> As for PvP being dead, it is, as much as you may think it's not. There is very little to what's left in this community and given the team's inability to actually communicate with their playerbase in this game mode it doesn't help much at all.

>

> I apologize if my comment hurt your feelings, but these are realities you must accept unfortunately.

 

You insist on talking about rotations, team comps, and spvp specific stuff for some reason, when I'm talking about ranger mechanics. Obviously F1 fire-and-forget is a generalization, still, one cannot say there is much thought involved in the management of the pet, and if there is, the skill floor is the lowest out of any profession-specific mechanic.

 

I am a regular player, plat, but regular, meaning I've never been in ESL or those high tier tourneys. No feelings were hurt. What annoys me is you disregarding any input because I'm not at that level. Again, no one is talking about +1s, rotations, decap and any of that jazz. I'm very clearly addressing THE RANGER (DRUID) PROFESSION and it's problems with the pet mechanic. Got it yet?

 

To the very end you try to shove down my throat how I'm not an elite level player. Dude. Lighten up, I assure you that no one cares, and, if someone had the choice to be proficient in a game at a top level, gw2 would not even be an option.

[Chaith.8256]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

 

The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

 

November

Elementalist: 1

Engineer: 7

Guardain: 21

Mesmer: 12

Necro: 21

Ranger: 11

Revenant: 0

Thief: 11

Warrior: 11

 

Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

 

Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

 

[Dahkeus.8243]

People are getting up in arms over there being AI involved in pets, but the ranger class still requires much more active attention than scourge, lol.

[Shadelang.3012]

As someone who plays and streams soulbeast pvp regularly....the belief that I could actually just let me pet do anything on its own is SILLY. When a pet does high damage its because the RANGER has boosted his pet in various fashions. Either throguh the generation of might and fury or the use of direct boosts such as sic em or mauls attack of opportunities.

 

Ranger pets do not do good damage on there own. ESPECIALLY not in a pvp scenario. They have to be buffed. The target has to be stripped of defenses. And the pet needs to have its cooldowns managed by the ranger.

 

I have NEVER just sent out my pet and had it kill someone for me without me first stripping them of all there defenses or cooldowns. Thats just not how the game works. People talking about how the smokescale does so much damage. It doesnt. It actually does very minor damage on its smoke assault for example. Its DAMAGE comes in when you boost it with boons and your utility skills. And even then it usually only hits for about a boosted maul. And thats a maul with a paladins amulet behind it. So no ferocity whatsoever. I should know this because its a core part of my attrition that I use in almost every engagement.

 

If you dont believe me I can link some vods of my last few pvp streams. If you dont mind hte few times where I get salty at x condis or whatever (standard pvp salt nothing ragey) you could give it a look and see how I play. Im not gonna claim to be the best ranger by a long shot. But I think many people would agree im atleast up there at this point.

 

I play a beast mastery focused build. Which means I invest ALOT into my pets performance and reliability. Entire burst combos are designed around rolling between the pets damage and my cc and my burst and the pets cc in a rolling cycle to keep pressure going and to chew through active defense. Throwing out a steady stream of moderate but dangerous level attacks in order to start landing final combos. Its not passive by a longshot and neither is druid. Druid isnt the most fun build to fight. Ill be the first to say that. But thats due to the nature of a node holder build. Its DESIGNED to be annoying to fight. Because that is how it does its job in a conquest game mode. Thats a problem with conquest and not the druid however.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @Dahkeus.8243 said:

> People are getting up in arms over there being AI involved in pets, but the ranger class still requires much more active attention than scourge, lol.

This.

Yall trying to saying ranger is brainless when we have the more braindead spec of scourge.

 

Smh, people need to get their damn priorities.

[Razor.6392]

Scourge is braindead but it is much less forgiving than SB or druid imo.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Scourge is braindead but it is much less forgiving than SB or druid imo.

 

I've seen your arguments on how all professions at the A tier or above is either: braindead, OP, or hits too hard. Seeing as 78% of the professions possess one of these, I'm pretty sure a more realistic/constructive perspective is to talk about buffing Ele/Rev and nerfing Scourge/Firebrand and having 100% of the professions having minimum one A tier build.

 

I get from your B-tier Ele perspective that everything is OP but the term overpowered is relative to the games current power level, not relative to your power level.

 

Edit: I already responded to the original post in detail but just to reiterate, the proposal to incentivize targeting pets is not going to improve PvP enjoyment.

[Lilyanna.9361]

Druid had big nerfs even before PoF came out. What you are complaining about now, they had fixed a LONG time ago. CA nerfs, stone nerf, mutiple bristleback and smokescale nerfs, renewal nerfs. Literally I remember when druid got nerfed back to back to back, for everything, including pets. The only thing that was remotely a buff is fixing the AI to be reliable. That's it.

 

The stats on the pets are static, each one having a blalant weakness somewhere. Literally smokescale is taken because the one skill it has is decent compared to something like a wolf. Smokewcale was also immedistrly fixed as soon as it came out of beta. Even the bristleback.

 

You can't really nerf anything more to the druid without making them underpowered. It is just a good, solid class with a good, solid role.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> Druid had big nerfs even before PoF came out. What you are complaining about now, they had fixed a LONG time ago. CA nerfs, stone nerf, mutiple bristleback and smokescale nerfs, renewal nerfs. Literally I remember when druid got nerfed back to back to back, for everything, including pets. The only thing that was remotely a buff is fixing the AI to be reliable. That's it.

>

> The stats on the pets are static, each one having a blalant weakness somewhere. Literally smokescale is taken because the one skill it has is decent compared to something like a wolf. Smokewcale was also immedistrly fixed as soon as it came out of beta. Even the bristleback.

>

> You can't really nerf anything more to the druid without making them underpowered. It is just a good, solid class with a good, solid role.

 

Past nerfs are largely irrelevant as every HoT spec has two full pages of them. However I agree with your conclusion that fairly represented classes don't need nerfs, especially if they don't delete other professions in that same role from being usable.. Druid is an optional side monkey build. Cough Scourge/Firebrand deleting all support and most melee specs.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Scourge is braindead but it is much less forgiving than SB or druid imo.

>

> I've seen your arguments on how all professions at the A tier or above is either: braindead, OP, or hits too hard. Seeing as 78% of the professions possess one of these, I'm pretty sure a more realistic/constructive perspective is to talk about buffing Ele/Rev and nerfing Scourge/Firebrand and having 100% of the professions having minimum one A tier build.

>

> **I get from your B-tier Ele perspective that everything is OP but the term overpowered is relative to the games current power level, not relative to your power level.**

>

> Edit: I already responded to the original post in detail but just to reiterate, the proposal to incentivize targeting pets is not going to improve PvP enjoyment.

 

I couldn't have put it any better. :+1:

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Razor.6392"

 

Being able to utilize the pet effectively separates good rangers from the bad. Managing the pet's abilities and skills in conjunction with our own takes a lot more effort than most people give us credit for. If played correctly, rangers can do some pretty crazy stuff. However, it takes a lot of practice and awareness in order to do so. Although I _am_ a ranger main, there are much more pressing concerns than making pets easier to kill in a 1v1 scenario. That being said, I still believe the request is quite ridiculous and judging by the little to no support it has received thus far, the general population also disagrees with it.

[Razor.6392]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Scourge is braindead but it is much less forgiving than SB or druid imo.

>

> I've seen your arguments on how all professions at the A tier or above is either: braindead, OP, or hits too hard. Seeing as 78% of the professions possess one of these, I'm pretty sure a more realistic/constructive perspective is to talk about buffing Ele/Rev and nerfing Scourge/Firebrand and having 100% of the professions having minimum one A tier build.

>

> I get from your B-tier Ele perspective that everything is OP but the term overpowered is relative to the games current power level, not relative to your power level.

>

> Edit: I already responded to the original post in detail but just to reiterate, the proposal to incentivize targeting pets is not going to improve PvP enjoyment.

 

Current power level is a funny way to put it.

 

I think what happens is that I break down each ability / profession and compare it to a set of guidelines they should follow (based on my perspective and gw2's original semblance of what constituted "high" damage). But you guys decide what's fair based on how it behaves in a full 5v5 match. So even if Deadeye mkII had a Deaths Judgment V2.0 that did 200k damage, it would still be balanced because rifle deadeye is garbage in competitive 5v5. It's interesting to see what the pro scene considers balanced.

[Razor.6392]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> @"Razor.6392"

>

> Being able to utilize the pet effectively separates good rangers from the bad. Managing the pet's abilities and skills in conjunction with our own takes a lot more effort than most people give us credit for. If played correctly, rangers can do some pretty crazy stuff. However, it takes a lot of practice and awareness in order to do so. Although I _am_ a ranger main, there are much more pressing concerns than making pets easier to kill in a 1v1 scenario. That being said, I still believe the request is quite ridiculous and judging by the little to no support it has received thus far, the general population also disagrees with it.

 

The people that have openly opposed it are ranger mains mostly. The rest of the posters agree there's a problem with the pet mechanic itself sooo I don't see where you get this from.

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @"Razor.6392"

> >

> > Being able to utilize the pet effectively separates good rangers from the bad. Managing the pet's abilities and skills in conjunction with our own takes a lot more effort than most people give us credit for. If played correctly, rangers can do some pretty crazy stuff. However, it takes a lot of practice and awareness in order to do so. Although I _am_ a ranger main, there are much more pressing concerns than making pets easier to kill in a 1v1 scenario. That being said, I still believe the request is quite ridiculous and judging by the little to no support it has received thus far, the general population also disagrees with it.

>

> The people that have openly opposed it are ranger mains mostly. The rest of the posters agree there's a problem with the pet mechanic itself sooo I don't see where you get this from.

>

>

 

Out of all the people who posted in the thread, count how many actually agree with your idea and how many don't.

 

In fact, its easy to tell how many people disagree judging by how little thumbs up votes you've actually received across all of your posts.

 

What _exactly_ is the problem with the pet mechanic?

* Is it the fact that pets do very little damage?

* Maybe its because the AIs are so bad pets can't hit a moving target

* It could be the fact that pets are very, very easy to play around and you have _absolutely no idea what you're talking about_

* Or, it could be that rangers have been stuck with completely garbage pets for the majority of the game and people can't handle it when we actually get something that isn't a walking punching bag

[Razor.6392]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > @"Razor.6392"

> > >

> > > Being able to utilize the pet effectively separates good rangers from the bad. Managing the pet's abilities and skills in conjunction with our own takes a lot more effort than most people give us credit for. If played correctly, rangers can do some pretty crazy stuff. However, it takes a lot of practice and awareness in order to do so. Although I _am_ a ranger main, there are much more pressing concerns than making pets easier to kill in a 1v1 scenario. That being said, I still believe the request is quite ridiculous and judging by the little to no support it has received thus far, the general population also disagrees with it.

> >

> > The people that have openly opposed it are ranger mains mostly. The rest of the posters agree there's a problem with the pet mechanic itself sooo I don't see where you get this from.

> >

> >

>

> Out of all the people who posted in the thread, count how many actually agree with your idea and how many don't.

>

> In fact, its easy to tell how many people disagree judging by how little thumbs up votes you've actually received across all of your posts.

>

> What _exactly_ is the problem with the pet mechanic?

> * Is it the fact that pets do very little damage?

> * Maybe its because the AIs are so bad pets can't hit a moving target

> * It could be the fact that pets are very, very easy to play around and you have _absolutely no idea what you're talking about_

> * Or, it could be that rangers have been stuck with completely garbage pets for the majority of the game and people can't handle it when we actually get something that isn't a walking punching bag

 

* Damage doesn't scale on ranger stats.

* Poor AI

* Immortal in small scale fights

* Extremely low skill floor compared to other profession mechanics

* 3k-4k crits is low damage? thats 20-25% of someone's health in most modes.

 

Obvious bias is obvious. You don't need to get so defensive. ANet won't nerf your AI ez mode lol, chill.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > > > @"Razor.6392"

> > > >

> > > > Being able to utilize the pet effectively separates good rangers from the bad. Managing the pet's abilities and skills in conjunction with our own takes a lot more effort than most people give us credit for. If played correctly, rangers can do some pretty crazy stuff. However, it takes a lot of practice and awareness in order to do so. Although I _am_ a ranger main, there are much more pressing concerns than making pets easier to kill in a 1v1 scenario. That being said, I still believe the request is quite ridiculous and judging by the little to no support it has received thus far, the general population also disagrees with it.

> > >

> > > The people that have openly opposed it are ranger mains mostly. The rest of the posters agree there's a problem with the pet mechanic itself sooo I don't see where you get this from.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Out of all the people who posted in the thread, count how many actually agree with your idea and how many don't.

> >

> > In fact, its easy to tell how many people disagree judging by how little thumbs up votes you've actually received across all of your posts.

> >

> > What _exactly_ is the problem with the pet mechanic?

> > * Is it the fact that pets do very little damage?

> > * Maybe its because the AIs are so bad pets can't hit a moving target

> > * It could be the fact that pets are very, very easy to play around and you have _absolutely no idea what you're talking about_

> > * Or, it could be that rangers have been stuck with completely garbage pets for the majority of the game and people can't handle it when we actually get something that isn't a walking punching bag

>

> * Damage doesn't scale on ranger stats.

> * Poor AI

> * Immortal in small scale fights

> * Extremely low skill floor compared to other profession mechanics

> * 3k-4k crits is low damage? thats 20-25% of someone's health in most modes.

>

> Obvious bias is obvious. You don't need to get so defensive. ANet won't nerf your AI ez mode lol, chill.

 

_"3-4k crits?"_

Are you _insane_? Wyverns have the strongest auto attack, and they hit for 1.1k, or 1.5k on a critical hit (or once every 3 successful hits). Gazelles have the strongest pet ability. They hit for 2k, or 3k on a critical hit (once every minute). You're pulling these numbers out of your ass.

 

_"3-4k damage is 20-25% of someone's health in most gamemodes."_

Soooo, you mean to say that the majority of people are running 15-16k health in a competitive setting? Sorry, but that is COMPLETELY incorrect. What a joke.

 

2/10 bad troll

[ZhouX.8742]

@"Razor.6392" : I apologize for coming off as I did. I think the confusion between me mentioning top tier players wasn't to bash you, or belittle you in any way. It's merely stating how both groups accomplish working with balance in this game. Top tier players generally internally discuss and work with the balance of the classes with duels between other, inner team matches in a private arena and so forth. Your typical regular players USUALLY choose the route of coming to forums to express why X and Y are broken and need to be nerfed. I was only mentioning it because it's important to understand the perspective between both groups of players.

 

As for mentioning rotation and +1 , you have to mention this in context to conquest PvP. You can't focus on a class's ability as an individual and not take rotations and +1ing ability and enemy comp matchups into consideration. Scourge is strong because points exist, you must stay on a point to keep it contested thus have a point advantage. If you took PvP and took away points and made it a simple giant space (like WvW) then you would find Scourge is actually garbage. This is why you can't just look at a class as an individual and gauge it's effectiveness in a game mode. This was the only reason I bring rotations and +1ing into the discussion, because effective strategy in those 2 things can render far point bunkers essentially useless - this would be with a godlike pet or a non-godlike pet AI.

 

It's the same with Firebrand, if you looked at Firebrand by himself, it's not very effective. But when you look at Firebrand with a Scourge IN conquest on a point fighting together, it's a much different story. Balancing just based on a pet's AI is meaningless in this regard because you have so many things that render a pet useless to begin with.

 

*Utilization of structures on the map itself are a good example.*

 

Look at Henge, Mine and Keep in Forest of Niflhel - all 3 of these locations contain structures you can jump on to render a pet useless in terms of pathing allowing you an advantage due to being able to just spam the druid until he gets 1upped. I guess my point is here is to use the AI of the pet as a weakness instead of thinking of it as a pro.

 

---

 

*Pet AI*

 

I think you'll find it something that every ranger has wanted for pets to be completely controlled by the ranger himself. This is a feature that has been requested probably 30+ times in the ranger forums. We hate the AI of the pet and it IS a weakness. You may think it's a benefit, but it is a massive weakness because again automatic attacks you can't fully rely on lower skill ceiling and raise the skill floor of a class (because it's generally less to think about).

 

F1 - Attack

F2 - Special attack

F3 - Retreat / Fall Back

F4 - Secondary attack 1

F5 - Secondary attack 2

F6 - Swap

 

Yes, this is a lot of F-keys and this is probably one of the reasons why the devs would turn down this proposal, they feel it would most likely clutter the UI even though you could easily re-bind those keys. This is something I have proposed for a while.

 

Again, as I said before though - giving ranger complete control of the cc and secondary damage skills will only result in a higher skill ceiling of play from ranger itself and probably result in even more people complaining about the class.

 

--

 

*If Druid is nerfed, what role will ranger have outside of Druid?*

 

I think Holosmith has replaced essentially what Soulbeast could have been , but Holo offers much more over what Soulbeast could offer as a mid to far point roamer with more cleave, guaranteed stomp and better mobility with rocket boots. I honestly think at this point the only reason druid hasn't been touched is because the balance team simply doesn't know what ranger COULD be if they were to take it away. Right now, they seem to feel Druid as the effective role and position ranger should player effectively in the meta of PvP conquest. Until then, we're pigeonholed into this spot but maybe this will change later on.

 

My suggestions for making it more effective have been said in the ranger forums as well as other people have made great suggestions, but little has been done in terms of that. Top rangers I have talked to hate the AI , but that doesn't mean it doesn't take effective micro-management to operate the pet in it's current state. In fact, working with the horrible pathing , bad AI in general and random cc and secondary attacks result in a much less enjoyable experience of play on both ends.

 

I think people have the misconception that because it's AI that automatically means the rangers are getting massive benefits automatically as if the pet is carrying the ranger. It's quite the opposite and it's more of a hinderance than it actually is a benefit.

 

Again, apologies for the top tier player group remarks, they weren't meant to insult you or say you were bad at all.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

>

> The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

>

> November

> Elementalist: 1

> Engineer: 7

> Guardain: 21

> Mesmer: 12

> Necro: 21

> Ranger: 11

> Revenant: 0

> Thief: 11

> Warrior: 11

>

> Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

>

> Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

>

 

Ah interesting, I didn't realize ranger was on footing with thief / mes. This is good to know.

 

Sad to see revenant and ele so low. I would think we should look at buffing them first, toning down scourge and MAYBE shaving Firebrand (maybe even let it stay as is) and see how that would pan out before looking at any other classes including ranger at this point. Revenant and Ele are definitely in need of some representation.

[Chaith.8256]

> @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

> >

> > The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

> >

> > November

> > Elementalist: 1

> > Engineer: 7

> > Guardain: 21

> > Mesmer: 12

> > Necro: 21

> > Ranger: 11

> > Revenant: 0

> > Thief: 11

> > Warrior: 11

> >

> > Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

> >

> > Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

> >

>

> Ah interesting, I didn't realize ranger was on footing with thief / mes. This is good to know.

>

> Sad to see revenant and ele so low. I would think we should look at buffing them first, toning down scourge and MAYBE shaving Firebrand (maybe even let it stay as is) and see how that would pan out before looking at any other classes including ranger at this point. Revenant and Ele are definitely in need of some representation.

 

A good part of giving Ele representation is allowing Tempest to not be simply deleted by Firebrand's existence.. Until Ele is situationally better in some way FB needs nerfs too.

[Morwath.9817]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

> > >

> > > The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

> > >

> > > November

> > > Elementalist: 1

> > > Engineer: 7

> > > Guardain: 21

> > > Mesmer: 12

> > > Necro: 21

> > > Ranger: 11

> > > Revenant: 0

> > > Thief: 11

> > > Warrior: 11

> > >

> > > Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

> > >

> > > Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

> > >

> >

> > Ah interesting, I didn't realize ranger was on footing with thief / mes. This is good to know.

> >

> > Sad to see revenant and ele so low. I would think we should look at buffing them first, toning down scourge and MAYBE shaving Firebrand (maybe even let it stay as is) and see how that would pan out before looking at any other classes including ranger at this point. Revenant and Ele are definitely in need of some representation.

>

> A good part of giving Ele representation is allowing Tempest to not be simply deleted by Firebrand's existence.. Until Ele is situationally better in some way FB needs nerfs too.

 

First thing Quaggan would do, he would revert nerfs which happened to Fire traitline, let Blinding Ashes be great again.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

> > > >

> > > > The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

> > > >

> > > > November

> > > > Elementalist: 1

> > > > Engineer: 7

> > > > Guardain: 21

> > > > Mesmer: 12

> > > > Necro: 21

> > > > Ranger: 11

> > > > Revenant: 0

> > > > Thief: 11

> > > > Warrior: 11

> > > >

> > > > Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

> > > >

> > > > Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Ah interesting, I didn't realize ranger was on footing with thief / mes. This is good to know.

> > >

> > > Sad to see revenant and ele so low. I would think we should look at buffing them first, toning down scourge and MAYBE shaving Firebrand (maybe even let it stay as is) and see how that would pan out before looking at any other classes including ranger at this point. Revenant and Ele are definitely in need of some representation.

> >

> > A good part of giving Ele representation is allowing Tempest to not be simply deleted by Firebrand's existence.. Until Ele is situationally better in some way FB needs nerfs too.

>

> First thing Quaggan would do, he would revert nerfs which happened to Fire traitline, let Blinding Ashes be great again.

 

And also giving us might on cantrips back as well. Celestial has proven to be hilariously weak, so stacking might ain't gonna make us op with a scourge throwing up on a point.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > > > > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > > > > How many druids did last monthly AT see vs firebrand, mesmer, scourge and thief? This sort of answers your question in itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > The answer isn't exactly the the one you'd think though:

> > > > >

> > > > > November

> > > > > Elementalist: 1

> > > > > Engineer: 7

> > > > > Guardain: 21

> > > > > Mesmer: 12

> > > > > Necro: 21

> > > > > Ranger: 11

> > > > > Revenant: 0

> > > > > Thief: 11

> > > > > Warrior: 11

> > > > >

> > > > > Edit: Ranger on Thief/Mes/War levels of representation

> > > > >

> > > > > Edit: By presenting this November monthly representation I'm not agreeing that Druid needs any fundamental changes or nerfs. Seems like it's in a spot relatively balanced around the games current power level. I'd rather talk about Scourge, Firebrand, Ele as a whole, Rev as a whole.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ah interesting, I didn't realize ranger was on footing with thief / mes. This is good to know.

> > > >

> > > > Sad to see revenant and ele so low. I would think we should look at buffing them first, toning down scourge and MAYBE shaving Firebrand (maybe even let it stay as is) and see how that would pan out before looking at any other classes including ranger at this point. Revenant and Ele are definitely in need of some representation.

> > >

> > > A good part of giving Ele representation is allowing Tempest to not be simply deleted by Firebrand's existence.. Until Ele is situationally better in some way FB needs nerfs too.

> >

> > First thing Quaggan would do, he would revert nerfs which happened to Fire traitline, let Blinding Ashes be great again.

>

> And also giving us might on cantrips back as well. Celestial has proven to be hilariously weak, so stacking might ain't gonna make us op with a scourge throwing up on a point.

 

Celestial is not hilariously weak. It's not worse than Sages/Avatar for Weaver when up against power damage. I tested this extensively with Phantaram, If Weaver had 20+ might, Celestial would be the optimal choice. Weaver lacks might, to buff Weaver I would suggest simply adding might to various traits and deserving skills.