Druid, ranger, pets, AI and you.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

The HoT/PoF pets are at the level that _all_ pets should have been at, an actual threat rather than something you can safely ignore entirely. Anet needs to revamp all the others to bring them up to speed, but they'll never do it because people screech and whine as soon as anything AI-controlled is able to actually hurt them.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> >Name one other profession where its entire secondary mechanic can be put on extended cool down?

>

> Name one profession where its entire secondary mechanic is tankier than the player himself, can burst damage for free, can cc you automatically, can taunt you if traited, can provide a variety of different abilities that complement you.

>

> I'm still unsure on why everyone instantly assumes it _will_ be put on extended cooldown. A good druid won't let that happen, unless a team actually focus fires the pet, in which case there are still many things you can do to avoid the damage (I reiterate, recall pet could be used as a defensive mechanism).

>

> Right now there's zero risk for your pet to die in 1v1s and 2v2s unless you're AFK and actually see as your 20-30k hp pet slowly dies to conditions and collateral damage. All I want is to have some more options for counterplay. Druids are used to just turn their brains off and spam staff 1-2-3-4-5 until they have CA, repeat. Is it really unthinkable to add some depth to this class?

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

"Name one profession that is completely identical to ranger... _I bet you can't._"

 

How about you name one profession where its entire secondary mechanic can summon multiple AI, can burst damage for free, can cc you automatically, can taunt you if traited, can provide a variety of different abilities that complement you.

 

Hm? You're thinking of mesmer? _Nope._ It's renegade. _*drops mic*_

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

As for the OP, this thread is a joke. Pets already die easily. Honestly, if you're complaining that pets are too strong and you're dying to them, and being cc'd all the time, and getting hit by huge bursts, and get hit by every taunt, you REALLLLY need to learn to play. Meta builds don't even run the taunt trait btw.

 

If you're in a 1v1 and are trying to kill the pet (and losing) instead of focusing the player, you're REALLLY bad at PvP and have a poor understanding of the game.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Also, if a good druid is able to use his skill to keep a pet alive, why should he be punished for doing so? That is completely stupid. So, you want to punish a player who is able to manage the AI and keep it from being killed? Lmao...

 

Please, 1v1 a good druid in a mirror matchup, spam staff 12345, enter CA, spam 12345, and repeat. Let's see if you live more than a minute.

[HeadCrowned.6834]

> @Rezzet.3614 said:

> Ranger pets should be killable in 1 v1 s if focused right now this is impossible why should ranger be the only profession with unkillable ai units? Engineer turrets got nerfed because they were tanky despite not doing damage and those took utility slots

 

> The whole pets die to condi argument is very stupid when condition is meta, whole teams of players die to condi at once in ocassions

 

Lol, you must be quite a beginner in PvP. Engineers have the OPTION to equip turrets, Rangers do not have any option involving pets. Rangers are bound to an AI that can be useful is some situations and useless in other situations. If you feel turrets are bad, you can just equip some other utilities. If you focus a pet you can kill it though. Just many people don't do it cuz its often not worth the effort.

 

And yes whole teams die to condi's, but also a whole team can equip condi cleanses. A pet can not. Point invalid.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> The HoT/PoF pets are at the level that _all_ pets should have been at, an actual threat rather than something you can safely ignore entirely. Anet needs to revamp all the others to bring them up to speed, but they'll never do it because people screech and whine as soon as anything AI-controlled is able to actually hurt them.

 

If they're a threat, then it needs counterplay don't you think? Playing a platformer while 1v1ing the ranger is not my definition of counterplay, because there's zero risk involved for the ranger in that scenario.

 

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > >Name one other profession where its entire secondary mechanic can be put on extended cool down?

> >

> > Name one profession where its entire secondary mechanic is tankier than the player himself, can burst damage for free, can cc you automatically, can taunt you if traited, can provide a variety of different abilities that complement you.

> >

> > I'm still unsure on why everyone instantly assumes it _will_ be put on extended cooldown. A good druid won't let that happen, unless a team actually focus fires the pet, in which case there are still many things you can do to avoid the damage (I reiterate, recall pet could be used as a defensive mechanism).

> >

> > Right now there's zero risk for your pet to die in 1v1s and 2v2s unless you're AFK and actually see as your 20-30k hp pet slowly dies to conditions and collateral damage. All I want is to have some more options for counterplay. Druids are used to just turn their brains off and spam staff 1-2-3-4-5 until they have CA, repeat. Is it really unthinkable to add some depth to this class?

>

> LOOOOOOOOOOOL

> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

>

> "Name one profession that is completely identical to ranger... _I bet you can't._"

>

> How about you name one profession where its entire secondary mechanic can summon multiple AI, can burst damage for free, can cc you automatically, can taunt you if traited, can provide a variety of different abilities that complement you.

>

> Hm? You're thinking of mesmer? _Nope._ It's renegade. _*drops mic*_

> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

>

> As for the OP, this thread is a joke. Pets already die easily. Honestly, if you're complaining that pets are too strong and you're dying to them, and being cc'd all the time, and getting hit by huge bursts, and get hit by every taunt, you REALLLLY need to learn to play. Meta builds don't even run the taunt trait btw.

>

> If you're in a 1v1 and are trying to kill the pet (and losing) instead of focusing the player, you're REALLLY bad at PvP and have a poor understanding of the game.

> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

>

> Also, if a good druid is able to use his skill to keep a pet alive, why should he be punished for doing so? That is completely stupid. So, you want to punish a player who is able to manage the AI and keep it from being killed? Lmao...

>

> Please, 1v1 a good druid in a mirror matchup, spam staff 12345, enter CA, spam 12345, and repeat. Let's see if you live more than a minute.

 

I was waiting for the salty druid main. Hello.

 

I knew someone would mention mesmer, but, aside from phantasms (who are easily killed, and just as easily resummoned), it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Thread is a joke? Because I want counterplay in small fights? Obviously I'm not trying to kill the pet, because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE and a bad idea. What I'm trying to say, in more simpler words for someone like you that mains druid, is that it _should_ be a real possibility to kill it by yourself, if you go out of your way to do so. I know taunt isn't meta, never said it was and afaik it's instant but apparently I'm bad if I get hit by those.

 

Pets already die easily? I like how you properly justified this point... oh wait, you just threw a random 'fact' to defend your easy mode profession lol.

 

Punished? Do you even understand what I'm trying to say here? Right now there is NO WAY TO GET PUNISHED, unless you let your pet run through 20000 aoe's in a 4v4 teamfight. Druids simply press F1 and let their pet go to town on whoever, with zero thought behind their actions. I guess it _really_ is unthinkable to ask some planning and skill from druid players.

 

I know nothing will be done, but this was amusing to read. Mess with their freelo and people get immediately oh so defensive...

[lilypop.7819]

My pets are like snowflakes to a mass fight, 1v1 they're a problem if the opponent is distant but close in the opponent's movement is usually so fast that their damage is mild at say the least.

 

Most opponents know with a bow ranger to get close and it's an easy kill. The main defence of druid just buys time as its efficiency is tied to grouping. Frankly I have never seen anyone give my pet a second glance.

 

Currently the problem is very much secondary to condi spam. However it would be interesting is pets had a death AoE effect - a herd of maggots very slowly spreading out from the corpse nibble 10k damage to any one in contact - or a lava fountain sprouting pus - or a plaque of rats ( all with a 'you killed Kenny' like audio). You know just something, anything!, to get peeps attention and avoid asap. Oh the ranger wouldn't be immune to such an effect which should cure any bunker druid hatred.

 

[choovanski.5462]

just came here to announce my incredible skill by complaining that I can't kill a ranger pet

 

lol you guys

[Chaith.8256]

Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

 

Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

 

PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

[Razor.6392]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

>

> Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

>

> PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

 

I mean, you have to be pretty bad or just not pay attention at all if you can't press F4 when your pet is slowly dying over 5+ seconds.

 

1v1 the pet will never die in a reasonable timeframe. Since you're known in the game, maybe you can tell me what's the downside to a druid, and what risk is there in their playstyle, if any at all? Even in the narration of the Zan VOD you mentioned how the druid escaped unscathed every single time even in 1v3s lol.

 

I just want things to have more options to be countered, and to raise the skill cap a bit. Less fire and forget and more active gameplay.

[Swagg.9236]

Ranger pets should have been Engineer kits (limited to 1 active pet at a time and activated by F1) with total pet movement control in the hands of the player (via F2-F4). The reason why nobody took pets in GW1 is the exact same reason why pets are so bad in GW2: they're dead weight; anet cannot design a "solo-pet" build very well. This game's engine (AI skill queuing and general behavior/pathing) is not conducive to slapping a brain-dead AI unit onto a player and telling them to "deal with it." It's why the pet/Ranger was worthless for nearly two years in all PvE and why it has always been annoying in PvP.

 

What's worse is that before making all pets 90% immune to all damage in PvE (a design change which, in itself, entirely invalidates the existence of the pet and proves that it is nothing more than the failed implementation of a poorly conceived, flavor-only idea), anet first tried to make them viable by just buffing their base vitality, toughness and damage by tremendous amounts (anywhere between 20-40%) across the board. This, however, didn't make them any more durable in PvE, and it made them a nightmare in PvP because now it was impossible to kill a pet given how Rangers now had a crazy amount of time to just press the instant "swap pet" button as soon as they saw their pet's HP bar slowly, slowly creep down to a relatively low level. Once they did the 90% invulnerability in PvE change, they never bothered to revert the older change while simultaneously introducing more powercreep'ed pets into the game, thus only exacerbating the issue of the pet being a badly designed mechanic that is more or less just an autopilot button for potential damage which is either worthless to the Ranger or entirely overbearing and unfair for an opponent (it mostly depends on cooldowns being up because the "skill" in GW2 is just having cooldowns to mash or not).

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Since you're known in the game, maybe you can tell me what's the downside to a druid, and what risk is there in their playstyle, if any at all? Even in the narration of the Zan VOD you mentioned how the druid escaped unscathed every single time even in 1v3s lol.

>

> I just want things to have more options to be countered, and to raise the skill cap a bit. Less fire and forget and more active gameplay.

 

Certainly. Druid is a side point monkey, in teamfights it risks dying to condition pressure and risks not being able to impact fights as much as your opponents are.

 

You have to be a good Druid to not die to Mirage, of course, and never have your Signet of Stone popped in 1v1. Living 1v3 vs. Thief/Holo/Mirage because you saved Signet of Stone to temporarily nullify the two power builds, CA to drop the Mirage's conditions - then disengage. They are very burst resistant and punish/deny teams that outnumber them. If you're bad you'll get your Signet of Stone popped, and die to +1 or straight up eventually lose the point.

[Dahkeus.8243]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

>

> Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

>

> PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

 

Yea, agreed. Balancing a game around a strat to kill a pet is never a fun experience. For the person fighting, they have to burn through two full health bars and for the ranger, it just sucks to constantly mess with healing and rezzing a pet.

 

It makes much more sense to balance things around a game where focusing the ranger and maybe CCing the pet a big is the best choice. The gameplay is much better that way.

[Rezzet.3614]

> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> too bad there isn't mu> @Rezzet.3614 said:

> > Another problem with pets is they are succeptible to boons and heals and guess what druid does? Thats right fart aoe heals non stop.

> >

> > And as previously pointed out its the new pets that are bringing the power creep.

> >

>

> Too bad there isn't a boon corrupt mechanic in the game.

 

Almost a solid defence except boon corrupt is basically a profession specific mechanic , so your defence is basically saying Just play scourge

[Razor.6392]

> @Dahkeus.8243 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> >

> > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> >

> > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

>

> Yea, agreed. Balancing a game around a strat to kill a pet is never a fun experience. For the person fighting, they have to burn through two full health bars and for the ranger, it just sucks to constantly mess with healing and rezzing a pet.

>

> It makes much more sense to balance things around a game where focusing the ranger and maybe CCing the pet a big is the best choice. The gameplay is much better that way.

 

All I want is to raise the skill cap of druid a little, and to provide more options for those attacking one.

 

**Every class has to keep track of key dodges.**

Ele has to keep track of rotations and multiple cooldowns. If you mismanage your cooldowns and in weaver's case, don't plan ahead, you're dead even faster than usual.

Thief has to keep track of initiative. No initiative means no escapes, no invis, no offense. You're dead in short.

Warrior has to keep track of adrenaline(? lol. This is the one other derp class in-game).

Mesmer has to keep track of # of clones, phantasms and shatters for successful combos. If you don't well how can you shatter or use many passive traits without clones?

Engi has to keep track of kit cooldowns, might stacks, heat (holo exclusive). You will fail as engi hard if you don't know the rotations and limits of your class.

Revenant has to keep track of energy and 2 different utility / heal bars. Kinda straightforward but managing cooldowns and knowing your limits are key for herald.

Necro has to keep track of life force, shroud cooldown(?). At least for reaper and core this is true. Scourge can just mash away.

 

Ranger / Druid _should_ keep track of his pet... but in reality they just press F1 and let it rock. Failing to control your pet? No such thing. **There's no risk involved in the druid's survivability when it comes to mismanaging your class mechanic, unless the pet actually dies.** A thief that carelessly blew all his initiative? He's dead. A druid that forgets his pet exists? He's fine. Other than a slight effectiveness decrease by not using your active skill for a blast finisher or burst setup at the right time, there are no downsides to being semi-AFK on your F1F2F3F4 (may vary for soulbeast). Of course you have to be extremely bad to let both of your pets die, because that takes a long time. While most other classes really rely on their class mechanic to do damage and above all, survive; ranger / druid can just derp around, because the pet is immortal, does damage for free and you never really need to recall it, only swap it.

 

That's pretty much what I'm talking about. Turn pet into less of an afterthought, and more into an active role where you need to protect it in order to fairly gain the benefits / boons / traits that reward you for doing so. Is that too much to ask?

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Dahkeus.8243 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> > >

> > > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> > >

> > > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

> >

> > Yea, agreed. Balancing a game around a strat to kill a pet is never a fun experience. For the person fighting, they have to burn through two full health bars and for the ranger, it just sucks to constantly mess with healing and rezzing a pet.

> >

> > It makes much more sense to balance things around a game where focusing the ranger and maybe CCing the pet a big is the best choice. The gameplay is much better that way.

>

> All I want is to raise the skill cap of druid a little, and to provide more options for those attacking one.

>

> **Every class has to keep track of key dodges.**

> Ele has to keep track of rotations and multiple cooldowns. If you mismanage your cooldowns and in weaver's case, don't plan ahead, you're dead even faster than usual.

> Thief has to keep track of initiative. No initiative means no escapes, no invis, no offense. You're dead in short.

> Warrior has to keep track of adrenaline(? lol. This is the one other kitten class in-game).

> Mesmer has to keep track of # of clones, phantasms and shatters for successful combos. If you don't well how can you shatter or use many passive traits without clones?

> Engi has to keep track of kit cooldowns, might stacks, heat (holo exclusive). You will fail as engi hard if you don't know the rotations and limits of your class.

> Revenant has to keep track of energy and 2 different utility / heal bars. Kinda straightforward but managing cooldowns and knowing your limits are key for herald.

> Necro has to keep track of life force, shroud cooldown(?). At least for reaper and core this is true. Scourge can just mash away.

>

> Ranger / Druid _should_ keep track of his pet... but in reality they just press F1 and let it rock. Failing to control your pet? No such thing. **There's no risk involved in the druid's survivability when it comes to mismanaging your class mechanic, unless the pet actually dies.** A thief that carelessly blew all his initiative? He's dead. A druid that forgets his pet exists? He's fine. Other than a slight effectiveness decrease by not using your active skill for a blast finisher or burst setup at the right time, there are no downsides to being semi-AFK on your F1F2F3F4 (may vary for soulbeast). Of course you have to be extremely bad to let both of your pets die, because that takes a long time. While most other classes really rely on their class mechanic to do damage and above all, survive; ranger / druid can just kitten around, because the pet is immortal, does damage for free and you never really need to recall it, only swap it.

>

> That's pretty much what I'm talking about. Turn pet into less of an afterthought, and more into an active role where you need to protect it in order to fairly gain the benefits / boons / traits that reward you for doing so. Is that too much to ask?

>

>

 

I really, really don't believe you have a decent understanding of the game. Not to mention, I don't believe you play ranger either.

 

Rangers _need_ to keep track of their pets. Telling it to attack, and literally doing nothing else will result in a dumb AI doing little damage while struggling to hit a moving target. Good rangers on the other hand, will manage the AI as best as they can, ccing and using its skills in combination with their own to pull off combos.

 

You're making a HUGE _(and extremely incorrect)_ assumption that all a ranger has to do is press f1 and the pet just goes ham, can't be killed, permanently ccs people automatically, and hits for huge bursts.

 

Play around the pet. It's part of the class. Having the pet hinders us as well as helps us. We have reduced damage across the board because we're supposed to use the pet in conjunction with our abilities. Also, a wide majority of our traits and skills require our pet to be alive in order to function correctly. When the pet dies in a fight, the ranger will shortly follow because of how badly we are crippled without it.

 

If you don't believe me, record yourself on ranger dueling good players on every class (and don't use the pet at all). If you really think we would be perfectly fine without our pet (and without any significant cc, a large reduction to our damage pressure, reduced condition clears and survivability, lack of kiting potential, loss of trait/skill synergy), by all means... go ahead and post it on youtube for us all to enjoy.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> >

> > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> >

> > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

>

> I mean, you have to be pretty bad or just not pay attention at all if you can't press F4 when your pet is slowly dying over 5+ seconds.

>

> 1v1 the pet will never die in a reasonable timeframe. Since you're known in the game, maybe you can tell me what's the downside to a druid, and what risk is there in their playstyle, if any at all? Even in the narration of the Zan VOD you mentioned how the druid escaped unscathed every single time even in 1v3s lol.

>

> I just want things to have more options to be countered, and to raise the skill cap a bit. Less fire and forget and more active gameplay.

 

If you really want more active gameplay, give rangers FULL control over our pets. This means access to _all_ of the pets skills, the positioning of the pet, more responsive commands, the ability for the AI to hit a moving target and I will be okay with that. Instead, we have to work extremely hard to control our crappy AI, especially at high levels of play. You coming here saying that we just "fire and forget" shows your immense ignorance on the matter. It also shows a great deal of disrespect to the people who have taken a lot of time and effort towards mastering this class.

[Zintrothen.1056]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> The HoT/PoF pets are at the level that _all_ pets should have been at, an actual threat rather than something you can safely ignore entirely. Anet needs to revamp all the others to bring them up to speed, but they'll never do it because people screech and whine as soon as anything AI-controlled is able to actually hurt them.

 

Because nothing passive should _ever_ do high damage. _EVER_. And how can you "safely ignore entirely" something that knocks you down and does so much damage without the ranger pressing a single button? Pets are passive threats. All we want is for them to either be active threats (ranger can control them better), or be killable outside of hoping your AoE damage is enough. I'll be _totally_ fine if ranger received buffs in other areas if that meant a nerf to pets. There are absolutely compromises that can be made. Pets being OP is a plain fact...IMO (that's a joke btw for those who have no idea that jokes can be made over the internet).

 

Shadowpass, I don't mean any disrespect to those who worked hard to master the ranger aspect of the profession, but I will never have respect for the idea that pets are part of mastering the ranger. Surely you have mastered Druid. But how can you master an AI? You just tell it to attack and pull out/swap when it's low or you need a different attack. _SO MUCH MASTERING_! I've played Druid in high AoE situations, and I know that pets can melt when not watched carefully. But I also know that pets are hardly part of mastering a ranger/Druid. If the AI is crappy and your opponent knows how to path in such a way to avoid the brunt of the pet's damage, then why would need to focus on what the pet is doing? You're essentially not using it then. So where's the mastering come from there? If the pet is focused, then you can easily swap or call it back. Not too hard to do. Plus, something that is hitting your pet isn't hitting you or a teammate (unless your team is stupid and stands in AoEs). So don't go around saying that we disrespect the time and effort that has been put into perfecting a profession, when all we are talking about is the one aspect that takes the least to master. Players fighting the ranger also worked toward mastering their professions (well, most have), and we don't like how annoying and passive the pets are, and how little counterplay there is outside of mindless AoE spamming that hopefully kills it. There's no fun in that. We want fun, and so do you. I love the idea of making pets more active. That would be a fantastic start. Another fantastic thing to do is working toward fixing their pathing.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @shadowpass.4236 said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > > Targeting a Ranger's pet should not be an intended strategy, it just kills the pacing of that duel. It's not fun for either player when someone is trying to focus down two pets simply to straight up deny the Druid the bulk of his damage from that point on. It becomes so un-fun for both parties because you're guaranteeing you'll fight for 2 minutes by not attacking the Druid, and the last minute the Druid will only be able to use half damage if you're successful. What an anti-climatic end, snooze-fest for sure.

> > >

> > > Reminds me of early Hunter 2v2's in WoW, with the 30 minute pet mini-games - if the Pet class' pet is dead, we can't lose, sweet, let's run around killing and reviving pets for 30 minutes! GW2's game modes certainly aren't beyond criticism either but I'm thankful this mechanic didn't make it in.

> > >

> > > PvP in GW2 ought to be Player v. Player, I probably speak for a good amount of players in being thankful that pet PvP mini-games aren't common when fighting Rangers currently. It's the Ranger's responsibility to keep it safe from area damage, let him be punished if he fails at that, but allowing him to have the tools to keep the pet alive 1v1 is fine.

> >

> > I mean, you have to be pretty bad or just not pay attention at all if you can't press F4 when your pet is slowly dying over 5+ seconds.

> >

> > 1v1 the pet will never die in a reasonable timeframe. Since you're known in the game, maybe you can tell me what's the downside to a druid, and what risk is there in their playstyle, if any at all? Even in the narration of the Zan VOD you mentioned how the druid escaped unscathed every single time even in 1v3s lol.

> >

> > I just want things to have more options to be countered, and to raise the skill cap a bit. Less fire and forget and more active gameplay.

>

> If you really want more active gameplay, give rangers FULL control over our pets. This means access to _all_ of the pets skills, the positioning of the pet, more responsive commands, the ability for the AI to hit a moving target and I will be okay with that. Instead, we have to work extremely hard to control our crappy AI, especially at high levels of play. You coming here saying that we just "fire and forget" shows your immense ignorance on the matter. It also shows a great deal of disrespect to the people who have taken a lot of time and effort towards mastering this class.

 

Welcome to the PVP forums, where people want to sit there and claiming your class is ez mode, while they aim the truly ez mode class.

 

Ain't it great.

[Razor.6392]

Sure, give full control on pets. I wouldn't oppose that. It would require a major rebalance that we all know is not gonna happen, but I'd love to see it.

 

Coming from a fighting game background, pet characters are known to be the hardest to use because you have to control pretty much 2 different movesets at once. It would be very funny to see your average ranger player trying to micromanage both things at once.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I guess he should have dodge rolled.


 

 

 

 

 

 

[Exedore.6320]

Just reduce the damage of HoT and PoF pets a little. If rangers want DPS, make them use birds or cats.

 

Right now you have pets like smokescale and Jacaranda which are great damage and CC in PvP. Or bristleback which is high damage at range (you don't have as many AI targeting issues, so it lands more reliably).

[Hot Boy.7138]

I strong believe pets stats should be inherited from the ranger's stats. Rangers running low damage stats shouldn't have access to high damage pets.

[Cynz.9437]

I would prefer rangers to be redesigned a bit. Pets should be there mainly for utility and not damage.

If pets were to remain damage source for rangers then pet should scale with ranger stats.

[brannigan.9831]

> @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > @Rezzet.3614 said:

> > Ranger pets should be killable in 1 v1 s if focused right now this is impossible why should ranger be the only profession with unkillable ai units? Engineer turrets got nerfed because they were tanky despite not doing damage and those took utility slots

>

> They are. Should a bunker build really be able to kill them easily? If so warriors/cronos would one shot them. Name one other profession where its entire secondary mechanic can be put on extended cool down?

>

> Pets can easily be kited. Their DPS is significantly reduced by just moving. Throw in moving around obstacles and they produce virtually no damage.> @Nix.3152 said:

> > druids tilt me more than anything else in the game. stupid healbots who tank eveything and heal to full after that. run around shoot stupid beam while pet is eating you. basicly pet is more usefull than ranger himself.

> > ps ranger is not a real class.

>

> You have problems if you can't deal with a ranger on a holosmith. You should hard counter them with your hard cc and burst. Not to mention you have the tools to disengage and heal to full just as easily as a ranger without having to spec at all in healing power.

 

Come on man he is talking about 1v1 situations on a point. So you just going to give up the point to the ranger? I don't really see a huge deal with pets because in general when I duel a ranger the fight is decided by whoever gets a +1 first or I kill the ranger if he is bad but really they need to be balanced a little to make them a little fairer in those situations but not hurt them too much so in bigger fights they die too easily. Killing the pet should be a viable strategy in some instances. It is not at least not in 2v2 or less and for you to say so is pretty close to a lie and they can just insta summon another so basically you would have to kill it 2x. I mean I agree in some ways that the ranger is just a poorly conceived class in general and the pet needs to be really strong almost regardless of speccing anything into it but maybe one of these expansions A-net would think about fixing that. The pet is durability is dumb though I run a power spike build on my Guardian that hits as hard as anything in the game and trust me Im not killing the pet before I get killed by the ranger if thats the tact I tried to use. We are talking 100% crit chance the highest ferocity in the game might stacking very close to 25 all the time and two hand weapons.

[ArthurDent.9538]

Regardless of whether it is op or not, druids are just the most boring thing in the game to fight. Having the primary sources of damage being a 1200 range non projectile auto attack, and a pet that is almost entirely controlled by its ai leaves very little room for skilled or interesting game play from druids in regards to killing foes. You can dodge staff autos but then you just get hit by more staff autos, really the only things worth dodging are some of the pet skills and ca5. Unfortunately unless you build for lots of sustain, this super passive snooze fest damage will take you down eventually, while a druid can heal though the damage pressure from anything, some things can force it to kite off node and decap, but a druid off node is nearly immortal even when outnumbered.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @ZhouX.8742 said:

> > > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > > @HeadCrowned.6834 said:

> > > > 1. Pets are useless in teamfights, they just melt.

> > > > 2. Once a pet dies, the Ranger has nog secondary mechanic to fall back on, unlike any other profession.

> > > > 3. Pets can have weird pathfinding, and quite often they dont hit their targets.

> > > > 4. A lot of utilities and traits rely on a pet. When you nerf the pet you gotta buff all those utilities and traits.

> > > > 5. People complain about that the amulet choice of the ranger does not impact the dps of a pet. If you make it so, they have to introduce reliable and worthwile supportive pets, otherwise you don't have a pet that matches with supportive amulets. At the same time, when a ranger equips berserker amulet, the pet should hit hard then as well. I'd expect new complains there.

> > >

> > > 1. Correction, they melt to aoe.

> > > 2. Then it should be in the ranger's best interest to keep it alive. _It's not hard_. Why should it be fine for druids to remain immortal? Add some risk to that high reward please.

> > > 3. I know this. This is not what the thread is about though.

> > > 4. The pet themselves aren't getting nerfed. Maybe you could add a defensive mechanic when you press the key to tell your pet to retreat (does anybody EVER use this?)

> > > 5. I'd be fine with this. It makes sense. If you want damage, you build damage. If you want tankiness, you build tankiness. Building tanky and getting damage (or viceversa) is bad design, much like anything warrior related, but I digress.

> >

> > 1. They melt to condi, which is what you'll be facing on a point as a druid mostly, condi mirage.

> > 2. It's not hard to keep a pet alive when the only ui option to is to force it back to you? So let me get this straight, you want them to keep the pet a live when druid is FORCED to be a far point bunker , so I would need to leave the point because the game doesn't want to give pets a dodge mechanic and just mindlessly walks through aoe , condi burst setups , etc and the only other option is to call it back to you? Your comment doesn't make sense and you've obviously never played druid/ranger at a high level against people who know this pet's weakness.

> > 3. Then you would know it's easy to manipulate this especially in places where even the smallest ledge is , because you'd then know that you can loop around it , forcing the pet to go the opposite way of you JUST TO GET TO YOU. There's tons of videos and top players who stream who do this.

> > 4. What does the pet having a retreat mechanic have to do with 50% of the traits in all of ranger's lines going to the pet? He's referring to needing to adjust basically the entire class for your proposal on 4. The 2 don't even match and your point makes no sense.

> > 5. You do understand dmg coefficients on all ranger weapons are lower by default for the very reason of your point #5 right? Ranger doesn't have the option you're referring to ... If we even wanted to go FULL glass damage , it still wouldn't be what every other class, and this is fine for the most part because there is a pet that helps with damage, but most importantly, cc - the dmg is near redundant - good rangers only want the smoke field and the cc - it's good for play setup. Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so, you have to give up pretty much everything for that - condi removal, the only survivability lines you have, etc while also still having a lower dmg coefficient on weapons. Hence why bunker druid is the only role it has ever had after HoT pets got nerfed about 4-5 times. This is something complained about by rangers themselves for many years now.

> >

> > Please, just please try and play ranger/druid at a top level against actually good players before making a forum post like this or at least duel good players with it. You'll find you'll hardly kill many people which is the point, it's an annoying point bunker setup which is the ONLY role druid provides especially with Firebrand's existence - you'll also most likely find in doing this, better ways of handling druid as opposed to just coming to the forums asking for flat nerfs and nothing in compensation because you barely understand the class as a whole.

> >

> > I can ask you though, do you think most druid players wanted a point bunker? Probably not, in fact most of the people who play point bunker don't even main druid to begin with , it's just an effective annoying spec especially with spellbreaker nerfed and scourge basically. Most actual ranger top players wanted SB to be something worth playing at a meta level , but it's not and scourge exists and far point exists and anet's mentality towards druid as a whole is a bit close-minded - hence druid exists.

> >

> > Nerfing ranger's pet will do nothing for you to change this reality, which is why your post is just irrelevant and not properly thought out.

>

> 1. Alright then, make them more resistant to condi. What I'm saying is that IF A PLAYER WANTS TO GO OUT OF HIS WAY TO KILL IT, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

> 2. You can also swap pets btw, maybe you didn't know this. It's fine, I understand.

> 3. Smokescale. The pet that every single ranger will use.

> 4. Nothing needs to be adjusted if you play it properly. Why is it assumed that the pet will die everytime? Is it so out of this world to ask a tiny bit of awareness and skill from druid players?

> 5. "Ranger is one of the only classes where you can actually attempt to go full glass, not do nearly as much in terms of #'s as other classes but you also lose 90% of your survivability by doing so." That's funny, I thought that was like, literally EVERY SINGLE CLASS THAT GOES FULL GLASS (except warrior). Also apparently 10k mauls and 10k rapid fires are low damage.

>

> >ranger/druid at a top level

>

> I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid.

 

"I'm sorry, but I honestly can't tell the difference from a bronze or a legend druid."

 

Then you've most likely never been at a top level. Which is understandable just from your original post you've probably never stepped foot on an actually top tier team or do inners with top players or even duel top players like Kronos in duels.

 

It's very clear you lack the very fundamentals to even be making a post regarding druid balance. Condi mirage beats druid , so your entire post here is irrelevant. It has counters, and out-rotating and +1's by thieves do far more work than a druid simply sitting on far and bunking the point.

 

But yes, you can't tell the difference between a bronze or legend druid.