Swagg.9236

> @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > The hallmark of skill in GW2 PvP is basic literacy or having a duo-spam partner. You'd never get any sort of decent game by "consulting the best" because the players in GW2 PvP who hit high-plat/top 250 only know how to follow a flow. They don't push themselves; they're all stuck in the same ivory tower worshipping the act of number tweaking rather than having creative thoughts. > ... So it should only be the top 2 players then? > Only if you absolutely want zero changes.

The hallmark of skill in GW2 PvP is basic literacy or having a duo-spam partner. You'd never get any sort of decent game by "consulting the best" because the players in GW2 PvP who hit high-plat/top 250 only know how to follow a flow. They don't push themselves; they're all stuck in the same ivory tower worshipping the act of number tweaking rather than having creative thoughts.

> @"TheBigPlay.7504" said: > This was done in gw1 and let me tell as an NA player, The lag playing on EUserver was not fun. I believe it was the same for EU players when they played on NA server. That would have been an even greater nightmare than cross-ocean GW2 because, at least, in GW1 radar footises were often life-or-death spike thresholds. At least in GW2, people can often just pop a bunch of instants to escape or mitigate most things even if there's a second delay.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Dexay.1962" said: > > I hope you put a at least 30sec cd on revenant shiro ports. > > > > Also, youre aware how degen condi thief is? Because that’s one of the things you didn’t speak about in the balance talk. I played it myself. Super high value for super lazy trash gameplay. 6confusion on an insta and invisible condi burst 33333 :-) > > > > > > Lol and burn guard, dh trapper, condi slbeast, scrapper/holo nades or flamethrower builds, necro and its spec( scourge in wvw lolz) etc etc are any different? > Sry but..... They're all identically small-brain, but Shiro ALSO has Steal on a 5s CD on top of the standard zero-effort gameplay cycle (the teleport also has a 1.0 damage coefficient because lmao).

As casual as GW2 PvP is at a baseline skill level, you're really going to want FTL data travel before you try linking any sort of video game activity that has to traverse the Atlantic Ocean.

the deddest of games

> @"FrownyClown.8402" said: > Sounds like someone is mad that they blew all their cd's and had nothing left to defend vs thief. Honestly, if you knew how to use terrain thief wouldnt be an issue. Try learning the game before complaining about something within your control Learning map quirks and sightlines is among the lowest skill ceiling upon which to base game mastery, and it also doesn't encourage player creativity since the "correct" play is to stand more or less still on top of esoteric terrain assets which just so happen to bug out teleport pathing. It's not difficult at all to do, but it also smothers anyone's ability to participate freely in combat. Moreover, "blowing CDs" is an inevitability in any GW2 PvP encounter. Every class inflicts burst damage, and generally, the easiest way to survive is to mitigate it through cooldown usage. Good luck capturing anything or contributing to any big team fight without using cooldowns, just so you can wait to use them when a Thief presses F1 while you're in transit somewhere.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > If a "gank" is both predictable and counterplayable, and doesn't rely on mechanics like teleporting or 1-shotting out of stealth....... in what sense is it a "gank" and not just...... a regular build? At the very least, a number of builds have the decency to show the opponent on screen approaching from a discernable distance (even if they are insulated with evasion via scripted movement). Teleports not only instantly negate positioning and timing, but they often path through terrain or walls. There's a little room to play chicken with somebody who does a greatsword Rush, but there is literally nothing to be done but dodging or blowing defensive cooldowns when somebody instantly teleports onto your location while simultaneously swinging for thousands of damage (particularly since, generally, nobody in GW2 teleports onto a target without passive evasion/blocks at the ready to blow on burst cover).

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > I never said that such a thing was good for any class. In fact, I've said nothing but the opposite. GW2 is a silly game, and anybody who takes it seriously or defends its merits as a skill-based environment are deluded. > > Skill based to some extent I feel. > More of a knowledge based game. Age of Empires 2 is a knowledge-based game. GW2 is homogenized and vapid. There's little when it comes to fine, mechanical execution, and about as much when it comes to knowing the intricacies of mechanical interactions. Every class uses the same handful of mechanics; class effectiveness is decided more by patch notes than it is by player creativity.

Lightning Orb is dumb, but the way this thread reads, you really just sound like a salty boi who got blasted by a super meme build. Nobody is landing 15k on a single target unless the user is running zerk ammy (or AT LEAST marauder) against a completely stationary, zero-toughness-investment target (and on top of that, there's probably some user might stacks involved). The only reason I say this is because I've occasionally used a power tempest meme build, and I am legitimately the only person I've ever seen run warhorn in PvP. I mean, despite Lightning Orb's silliness, the weapon is not really a justifiable option when there's so much low-effort garbage like evade-rotation weaver and focus off-hand. It's a forum, and anything is free game (not like any aspect of GW2's PvP is beyond criticism anyway), but this just seems like such a random thread that the topic seems more personal and spiteful rather than anything which would advance the creative development of the metagame (then again, that's probably just the baseline nature of anybody who takes GW2 PvP remotely seriously).

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > All you want is another staff except that while evading it also deals thousands of damage. That's all you really want. That's all every GW2 PvP player wants. You want to be insulated from risk and rewarded for doing literally anything. > > Then are yu sure yu should be directing yur ire at Revenant? > *cough Staff Daredevils cough* > I never said that such a thing was good for any class. In fact, I've said nothing but the opposite. GW2 is a silly game, and anybody who takes it seriously or defends its merits as a skill-based environment are deluded.

There is a reason why I always called Revenant "Thief with Defiant Stance." It was just a matter of time before one ended up passing the other. They're the class relationship equivalent of condi vs power damage: two identical entities which joust each other for top spot based entirely on patch notes.

Honestly, bro, it's impossible to "miss" literally anything in this game since everything is aimed for you and most skills activate either instantly or in a half-second or less. Show me the skill in GW2 that you can consistently avoid by only using this game's sluggish, baseline movement, and I'll show you a liar (especially if you're trying to hold a point in PvP). Yeah, Lightning Orb is a fat meme with its 360 radius, but rev teleports through walls, guardian stealths and blocks for its entire burst duration, ele is literally just guardian but with "warlock" flavor, etc, etc. Everything is a huge meme.

It's entirely down to that one single passive lmao. GW2 is ruled by passive effects.

Nerfs and buffs mean nothing for this game's skill ceiling if it's already fixed at such a low altitude. If you want a skill ceiling, you need ACTUAL roles which promote distinct purposes, advantages and risks; not the made-up meme nonsense like bruiser/duelist/roamer.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. > > This is only true if the person utilizing their defensive cooldowns are chaining it as a reflex instead of using it appropriately. > > This only applies to players which have very low mastery of their build, so the only thing they know how to do is follow a practiced rotation of chaining damage skills and defensive skills back to back until they win or they lose. > > I've seen plenty of players play like that, and if yu back off during their little rotation chain, they look utterly hilarious flailing around and misusing their cooldowns. > > Now if yu are using Defensive cooldowns properly, they actually negate damage and therefore wasting the opponent's cooldown/ attack opportunity instead. > That can hardly be considered artificially lengthening combat unless the player who has successfully negated the opponent's attack decides to not punish them. > > Long story short : > Defensive cooldowns are defensive cooldowns when used properly. > If spammed by an inexperienced player, they are just burning their defensive cooldowns, making themselves harder to kill, but accomplishing nothing like wasting an opponent's attack or creating an opening for themselves. Using defensive utility "appropriately" is still an incredibly binary decision process. Anybody with even the most basic understand of video games (not even just Guild Wars 2) would know how to most effectively use something like the Revenant staff kit. A "practiced **rotation** of chaining damage skills and defensive skills back to back" is just a "**rotation**" and nothing more. Putting so much effort into embellishing the idea of a player accomplishing a good "rotation" as an aspect of "build mastery" in what is supposed to be a "skill-based PvP mode" is just mental gymnastics. Considering how all of a class' core, "defining" skills (i.e. the ones that people watch for or call out) are generally near-instant or instant speed (while also covered by access to things like stability, teleports and protracted evasion) means that knowing *when* to use any of them is little more than a case of reading a wiki, going through some patch notes, and then playing a few games. If a player has a basic sense for cooldowns and the ability to move their ten fingers, then they can effectively utilize every "useful" or "good" mechanic in the game without any further effort or creative development. > Now going back to the original topic of Staff Sword/Sword builds : > Power Revenant requires a good offhand to complement the hyper aggressive Sword/Sword. > > Staff for the longest time has filled this niche because it had a nice block, a decent damage Staff 2, a cleanse which is great because Rev is weak to Condi in general, and a Staff 5 which dealt pretty devastating Power damage and CC. > > With all that gone, it's now really only a defensive utility weaponset used to buy time for Sword/Sword to cooldown, or to respond to counterattacks because of how Sword/Sword overexposes them in order to deal damage. Nobody "overexposes" themselves in GW2. People put everything into a tiny burst window and then spend the rest of the game kiting or playing passive until their best burst skills recharge. If somebody dies during burst, it's because they didn't have all of their engagement and panic skills up. Considering how pressing Rev sword 4-5 and then spamming autos for a second or two is enough to kill basically anybody who can't immediately press a button mitigate damage for a protracted time period (or teleport away instantly; so player skill in this case is all based on cooldowns being up), and yet you still consider this, by what you've written, to be the Rev player "overexposing" him or herself, then WHAT are you actually asking for with a "good power weapon to replace staff?" > If Revenants had another mainhand Power weapon to consider, Staff would have been dropped in a heartbeat since Shield could fulfil alot of the utility previously desired on Staff, but just couldn't find a good mainhand to pair with it which isn't Sword. > > I have met Heralds which ran Sword Sh/Sword, but their kill potential is pretty low due to them lacking any sort of damage when swapping to Shield, while a CC from Staff 5 could still allow yu to land a Staff 2 and some autos. > With all that gone, it's now really only a defensive utility weaponset used to buy time for Sword/Sword to cooldown, or to respond to counterattacks because of how Sword/Sword overexposes them in order to deal damage. All you want is another staff except that while evading it also deals thousands of damage. That's all you really want. That's all every GW2 PvP player wants. You want to be insulated from risk and rewarded for doing literally anything.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts > > > > It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive. > > That's because there are literally no other options. Mace is terrible if not running condi and hammer is meme tier bad. That leaves you with swords and staff in core/Herald and Shortbow in renegade. Shortbow has absolutely no defensive utility so of course you're going to bring staff, otherwise you're just setting yourself up to be easily pressured. On top of this, staff has been extremely neutered and does almost no damage at all anymore and has the only non traited cleanse skill on any weapon for the whole class. You want to see different weapon sets? Give us more options. "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. The times at which and manners in which anybody uses anything that somebody in GW2 might defend as "defensive utility" are SO BINARY, that it doesn't require any thinking. If anything, skills like those on rev staff and sword (among every other identical instance of "defensive utility" scattered across all other weapons on all other classes), are little more than timelapse buffers that people effortlessly slot in between their other easy-mode damage and engagement skills.

> @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive.

The problem with GW2's Living World releases is two pronged: it's an arbitrarily long-winded, "seralized" story that is written without a concrete roadmap; due to its indefinitely long development cycle, GW2's high internal turnover rate (as well as Anet's recent shake-up due to... embezzlement of a sort, I guess?), it's probably difficult to ensure staff continuity between individual Living Story releases. For instance, compared to GW1's expansions (which were self-contained stories which shipped with endings already established) or even GW1's Wind of Change releases (which were done on a much more concise timescale: 3 releases; about 7 months total time between initial release and final release), GW2's Living Story has historically been muddled between weird, dead-end plot lines that didn't really impact anything (big symptom of pre-HoT LS) as well as its lack of focus (pinballing around greater Tyria, often using nostalgia and macguffins in order to justify or facilitate plot progression toward a rather vague end). Basically, LS has no goal as a story, and Anet's anemic staff can't do anything but recycle the same mechanics over and over again (every zone is just another mastery grind and zone-specific currency farm).

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > > > > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. > > > > All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. > > > > Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong. > > Not everything should be as wildly telegraphed as warrior's kit, this just turns the game into a reaction test that becomes progressively more defensive at higher tiers of play; For Honor had this exact issue with everything being mostly telegraphed and reactable, and so the meta was defensive with people staring at each other with no way of cracking a turtle. Now it's about reads and prediction, which lets offense land. If everything is easily telegraphed then we're just going to be stuck in defensive loops. There's a reason you typically have to lock people in CC chains to get meaningful damage baring serious mistakes; so much high damage stuff is so obvious to see coming that you have no choice but to quite literally stop someone's ability to avoid them through CC, and many classes have panic buttons for these scenarios anyway. > > Things being done through wall ports is entirely irrelevant, as is in a +1 where you're already at a serious disadvantage by having to account for 2 people, and if it was so telegraphed that you could have someone port on top of you out of nowhere and still be easily telegraphed to dodge, then how much worse is it going to be in the open? Again, it will become nothing but a staring contest of defensive rotations. > > These skills have proper tells, the OP is simply not able to adequately distinguish them in the fight, which isn't the fault of the skills, no hostility intended. > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > > > > > > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. > > > > > > All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. > > > > > > Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong. > > > > Not everything should be as wildly telegraphed as warrior's kit, this just turns the game into a reaction test that becomes progressively more defensive at higher tiers of play; For Honor had this exact issue with everything being mostly telegraphed and reactable, and so the meta was defensive with people staring at each other with no way of cracking a turtle. Now it's about reads and prediction, which lets offense land. If everything is easily telegraphed then we're just going to be stuck in defensive loops. There's a reason you typically have to lock people in CC chains to get meaningful damage baring serious mistakes; so much high damage stuff is so obvious to see coming that you have no choice but to quite literally stop someone's ability to avoid them through CC, and many classes have panic buttons for these scenarios anyway. > > > > Things being done through wall ports is entirely irrelevant, as is in a +1 where you're already at a serious disadvantage by having to account for 2 people, and if it was so telegraphed that you could have someone port on top of you out of nowhere and still be easily telegraphed to dodge, then how much worse is it going to be in the open? Again, it will become nothing but a staring contest of defensive rotations. > > > > These skills have proper tells, the OP is simply not able to adequately distinguish them in the fight, which isn't the fault of the skills, no hostility intended. > > I don't need to have everything as slow as arching slice. I'd just like infuse light to have a proper tell. > I don't even want the attack itself to be slower, I just need a better visual effect to warn me "WATCH OUT SOMETHING MEANINGFUL IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN" (and we can all agree that priming infuse light IS meaningful). 0.25s cast time is fine, just place some sort of bright flash on the player's model instead of having me look at the boon bar where there are 10 other boons, 4 of which have about the same icon. Cues and timing need to be clear and relevant in a game where nobody has to actually aim anything and attack range varies both wildly and arbitrarily from class to class. If you're going to undermine people's ability to respond at anything less than near-instant or instant speed, then you pigeon-hole everyone's creativity by forcing all builds to play like that. It homogenizes everything into a single, grey mush that just operates at the same speed with active skills that more or less mimic each other.

> @"wilykcat.5864" said: > So ranked match making is better then? Are there specific rules to ranked? Might want to think about it once I get more used to the game and how pvp works. Ranked is still entirely a lottery because GW2's metagame is simultaneously so shallow yet oppressive that if anybody on a given team deviates too far from the most viable options, that team has a far higher chance of losing. On top of this, because of how broken and homogenous the game itself is, people agreed that forming a complete team of five players prior to queuing up for a game should be prohibited. Your teammates are entirely RNG, which means that even if everyone on your team is technically running a "good" build, you still might not get the "correct" sort of team composition (i.e. not enough damage, not enough people who can brainlessly face-tank enemies, etc). Every match is a gamble, which is why the most "successful" players queue in teams of 2 (maximum that you're allowed) in order to passively buffer their chances against rolling ineffective team compositions. On top of this, because the game is so brutally one-dimensional, it's very possible to fit every "good" mechanic in the game within just two builds/classes; so these "duos" generally join in an already complimentary set-up (generally a "damage-healer" duo or a "[self-sufficient]-thief" duo for moving around the map with impunity). GW2 ranked PvP somehow manages to be both incredibly binary and shallow yet still beholden to RNG at the end of the day. Best advice should you really feel like trying to brute force your way down the rabbit hole is to join a PvP guild, suck up to some streamer/in-house bois, or somehow find a friend who is willing to endure it with you. Doing solo queues is basically masochism (only slightly tolerable if you legitimately don't play the game but once a patch out of boredom/curiosity).

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong.

So a 10 second video of me playing the "lol I'm going to decap this point for free and you can't do anything about it" game with somebody just by standing in plain sight within 5000 range of a specific location?

> @"Clipzy.9483" said: > They wanted conditions to do damage to add more diversity to build types. The issue is that the damage for condis is too high and scales too well with defensive builds. The issue is that untyped damage already existed and every class used it.

Thief is not a real class; it's a showcase for a model-hiding mechanic that somebody showed off to some developers in 2010.