Overhaul of attribute combinations on items

[TheManowar.2014]

With the increasing number of prefixes, I was thinking if it would be preferrable to have a radical change in the way attributes can be distributed when crafting or selecting them on an item (as, for example, in the case of ascended items bought with laurels or from LS3 vendors). The basic idea is first to select if you want 3 or 4 attributes: in the first case, one would have 1 "primary" attribute slot and 2 "secondary" attribute slots, in the second case one would have 2 "primary" attribute slots and 2 "secondary" ones; then, you fill each slot with an attribute, essentially creating your own customized prefix/suffix (obviously once you select an attribute for a slot, you can't select it again for another slot).

In the case of vendor items, I think it would be quite straight-forward, but realistically it wouldn't be the same for crafted gear; I was thinking that maybe the easiest way could be to demand a linear combination on components based on the choice of attributes (i.e. the equivalent of the current Berserker prefix could require, for example, 3 bloods/1 claw/1 fang, etc).

An additional choice could be "All attributes" to have something similar to the current Celestial prefix.

**NOTE:** this is for lvl80 items, for lower level ones this system should allow to choose a reduced number of slots, based on the item level itself (i.e., items up to lvl10 could allow only the choice of 1 slot, up to lvl30 only 2, etc).

 

Some pros:

1. Much greater customization of your character.

2. Conceptually much more simple.

3. Possibility to discover new effective combinations of attributes and less known traits/skills.

 

Some cons:

2. Heavy modifications to the gear system.

3. No possibility to add new combinations in future major game releases (not so bad, imho).

4. Possible balance issues due to unexpectedly powerful combinations.

 

What do you think?

[Rauderi.8706]

I'd pondered something very close to this!

 

Overall, GW2's crafting system is a mess, and the attribute system is by far the worst of it. Add on that in order to update gear after balance patches, you pretty much have to completely remake that gear from scratch. It would be a boon to upper-end players to have ways to *modify* stats on gear without needing to completely remake it.

[TheManowar.2014]

> @Rauderi.8706 said:

> I'd pondered something very close to this!

>

> Overall, GW2's crafting system is a mess, and the attribute system is by far the worst of it. Add on that in order to update gear after balance patches, you pretty much have to completely remake that gear from scratch. It would be a boon to upper-end players to have ways to *modify* stats on gear without needing to completely remake it.

 

Yeah, I agree that the possibility to modify only some of the existing stats would be a very welcomed options. I have to say, the introduction of the Anthology of Heroes is a good step in this direction. A full revamp of the crafting system would be good too.

[ReaverKane.7598]

I do think that the current stat pool and stat combinations are not up to par with the overall game. It's still too stuck in the original game's state with less overall condi application and no Raids.

 

For example, we need a stat that mitigates CONDITION damage. With the prevalence of that damage type, there's a real need of something that mitigates it, either by reducing the duration (like some runes) or simply mitigating the damage.

That's one of the reasons why conditions are so strong, condition damage is akin to **true damage** in LoL, it bypasses mitigation.

And before someone starts "oh that would render condi cleanse useless". well you have aegis, distortion, dodges, regen, invulnerability skills all that are used to prevent or mitigate physical damage, but no one thought toughness was a bad idea.

 

The problem with this is bloat. There's already too many stats, that's why with the addition of expertise, concentration, and a real use for healing power, arena net found a need to add 4 stat trinkets.

 

So an ouverhaul of the whole stat system would be preferential, with less stats and multiple uses for the same stats.

 

Also, profession specific attributes on items would be interesting, these attributes used to be increased through specific trait lines (back when those gave stats in adition to the traits themselves), nowadays their effect is derived from a single trait, most of the time, which begs the question, why is the effect of a single trait listed in the stat window, if there's no other way to improve on that?

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @ReaverKane.7598 said:

>

> And before someone starts "oh that would render condi cleanse useless". well you have aegis, distortion, dodges, regen, invulnerability skills all that are used to prevent or mitigate physical damage, but no one thought toughness was a bad idea.

 

The Berserker/Viper meta says, "Hi."

 

Still, I'd guess that a condi damage reduction stat would be useful in the PvP modes, though we'd still see complaints about condition damage depending on how effective it was. I doubt condi cleanse would become useless, just -- perhaps -- less ubiquitous.

[Funky.4861]

> @ReaverKane.7598 said:

> I do think that the current stat pool and stat combinations are not up to par with the overall game. It's still too stuck in the original game's state with less overall condi application and no Raids.

>_I'm not sure wht u mean by this- do u mean that the games' original state had less condi application?_

> For example, we need a stat that mitigates CONDITION damage. With the prevalence of that damage type, there's a real need of something that mitigates it, either by reducing the duration (like some runes) or simply mitigating the damage.

> That's one of the reasons why conditions are so strong, condition damage is akin to **true damage** in LoL, it bypasses mitigation.

> And before someone starts "oh that would render condi cleanse useless". well you have aegis, distortion, dodges, regen, invulnerability skills all that are used to prevent or mitigate physical damage, but no one thought toughness was a bad idea.

>_I see where you're coming from on this; you're referencing the renegades' heal skill, which reduces incoming condi damage. There is, however, a stat which mitigates condi damage- vitality. Also, condi damage is true damage, unless you mean dot vs direct damage._

> The problem with this is bloat. There's already too many stats, that's why with the addition of expertise, concentration, and a real use for healing power, arena net found a need to add 4 stat trinkets.

> _Expertise and concentration have been in the game since the start; they were called condition duration and boon duration and were apart from the other stats in being percentage based (along with crit damage). When crit damage turned from a percentage to a flat number, it was only a matter of time before condi and boon duration followed suit._

> So an ouverhaul of the whole stat system would be preferential, with less stats and multiple uses for the same stats.

>

> Also, profession specific attributes on items would be interesting, these attributes used to be increased through specific trait lines (back when those gave stats in adition to the traits themselves), nowadays their effect is derived from a single trait, most of the time, which begs the question, why is the effect of a single trait listed in the stat window, if there's no other way to improve on that?

 

I think profession-specific attributes on items would lead to massive item bloat, as people made/acquired only items for the classes they used. Also, how would you feel about 'less favourable' attributes being used, like healing power on thief items? It sounds like an overly complex system to me :/

[FrizzFreston.5290]

This would need to be considered at launch if not long before launch. Right now stat combinations and combination sets are heavily build into reward systems. Changing them at this point would mean to nearly recreate the whole game and a full rethinking of what rewards would be within the game.

 

Its just not a great idea to change that at this point, if not simply an idea for a future GW3 if thats a thing.

[Orpheal.8263]

The System wouldn't be needed at all, if the true problem of the system, the root issue would get fixed first finally, by removing Gear Stats completely out of the game and changing the Attirbute System to one, which doesn#t need at all any silly increasing prefixes for that always need to be though out new recipes and all this unneccessary obsolete stuff, that owuldnt need to exist at all without sensless gear stats.

The Game would become alot less full of grind for the right stat combo, making builds would become alot faster and comfortabkle without pointless gear stats.

GW2 would become significatly more similar again, how gear worked in GW1, where gear provided mainly only a base defense value and aside of this was just only fashion!!! Where the maximum base defense value was realively quicky and easily received and where just only the fashion and rarity decided about the items gold value, not what kind of stupid stats the gear provided just to be able to complete your "build" with it.

 

people may say now, if Anet removes Gear Stats, then alot of things would become worthless..

Sure, some items would become maybe eventually a bit cheaper - but only, if ANet doesn't add into the game some kind of new recipes as a compensition to catch up the loss of demand for certain materials ect. that maybe were used for specific recipes earlier to create gear with specific stat combos.

 

Upgrades would become alot more important and interesting, if none of them - especially Runes - would provide no stats, but just only useful and interesting effects that can be part of your character's build to complement it somehow, what is far better, than just only a stat getting boosted up by some points.

 

The current Stats are too outdated for the games combat system that is full of outdated combat mechanics from 2012, which aren't really balanced around the fact, that we have now two sets of elite specializations in the game, a few conditions and boons more in the game, that weren't there 5 years ago, and countless of changes on alot of skills and traits that are all not really in harmony anymore with the current Stat and Base Health System together at all.

 

GW2 would become alot more balanced, without Gear Stats, instead allowing the player free distribution statting with a reset option out of combat with Stat Points being all gained only via natural character progression from leveling up from Level 0 to 80

This together with a overhaul of the Attribute System to Dual Stats to rebalance the effectsw of the attributs to become more equal offensively as like defensively.

This in return would allow Anet a better redesign and reduction in the Boon and Condition System , because alot of Boons are unneccessary and would work alot better as secondary Attribute Effects, while some Conditions are also unncessary and would work better as unique Trait Effects to individualize better the Classes.

 

A game without an obsolete gear stat system would be also alot easier handable for a Build Template System, because there wouldn't exist a ton of unneccesary prefixes anymore that the Build System would need to work with and woudl need to get updated with whenever any new prefix had been added to the game.

Then a Build Template System woudl have to handle on button click just only the Weapon you use, the Upgrades you use and the Skilsl and Traits you use and your Setting of your Attributes that you saved by the way how you have distributed your Points to the various Attributes

[Einlanzer.1627]

At the very least, they need to start grouping attribute combinations and allowing free-switching on a range of them for a given item. Having 30+ different attribute combos with no way to swap them around unless you have a legendary is pretty absurd.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @IndigoSundown.5419 said:

> > @ReaverKane.7598 said:

> >

> > And before someone starts "oh that would render condi cleanse useless". well you have aegis, distortion, dodges, regen, invulnerability skills all that are used to prevent or mitigate physical damage, but no one thought toughness was a bad idea.

>

> The Berserker/Viper meta says, "Hi."

>

> Still, I'd guess that a condi damage reduction stat would be useful in the PvP modes, though we'd still see complaints about condition damage depending on how effective it was. I doubt condi cleanse would become useless, just -- perhaps -- less ubiquitous.

 

Isn't that the current problem? Except for a couple niche support builds for druid and Chrono (and arguably tempest and firebrand) that's pretty much the meta for dpsers. And it's actually dumb as crap. For example the current meta for DH can use Valkyr armor without losing any DPS because, after ~30% Crit chance precision is useless for DH due to Radiance traits.

 

Adding/revamping all attributes to add in some more defensive stats would help the game improve, especially like you said, in PVP.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

Here's what I'd like to see. I would like the option to save multiple sets of armor combinations, which you can toggle between. This is the only part of WOW I do miss, three sets of saved gear options to change how you play. They also didn't take up bag space.

[TheManowar.2014]

> @Orpheal.8263 said:

> The System wouldn't be needed at all, if the true problem of the system, the root issue would get fixed first finally, by removing Gear Stats completely out of the game and changing the Attirbute System to one, which doesn#t need at all any silly increasing prefixes for that always need to be though out new recipes and all this unneccessary obsolete stuff, that owuldnt need to exist at all without sensless gear stats

> [...]

 

I have to say, I really appreciated the simplicity of GW1 system, but I think that scraping that system in favor of the current one was one of the compromises that had to be made by Anet to sell GW2 as a "true" MMO back in 2012. I sure would like to revert to a system more similar to the one of GW1, but at this time I think that's not realistically possible (maybe for an eventual GW3).