Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > Why is JQ still closed? Because the conditions required to open it haven't been met. ANet doesn't open worlds just because people complain, just because some players perceive opponent populations to be greater, or at whim. Their goal is to have matchups with each side bringing comparable numbers, weighted by time|day, by hours played, by effectiveness (the last of which is measured via proxies, such as PPT, PPK, and many that we cannot see). If JQ stops playing, but their opponents are also reducing their play time, JQ isn't going to suddenly open. The biggest problem with ANet's strategy here is that they are depending solely on attrition for balancing the populations of primary worlds. And the problem with attrition is that it is slow, far slower than the attention span of even some of the more reasonable WvWarriors. The big advantage of ANet's strategy is that they are depending solely on attrition for balancing the populations of primary worlds, because it's far less icky than any of the alternatives, notably things like breaking up the top 3 worlds or increasing rewards|decreasing penalties for moving to the lowest-pop worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @diamondgirl.6315 said: > "Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough." > > Not enough to make them move servers. I mean, we've done this before. Its called implosion and it results in the samething. A stacked server. The only difference is this stacked server is now disorganize and split. So tanking is the better option hence the 5 or so servers doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy.7356 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 @ MaLeVoLenT.8129 So are we just talking that this is all over 20 people not being able to get into JQ? We know that certain people managed to get on to a locked server by asking the right people. If its only 20 as you stated then time to ask if those can be transferred in manually, but somehow I do not think this is just about 20 Guildies being left out in the cold. I would love you to prove me wrong, but so many times I have been disappointingly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Missy.7356 said: > @ MaLeVoLenT.8129 > > So are we just talking that this is all over 20 people not being able to get into JQ? > > We know that certain people managed to get on to a locked server by asking the right people. If its only 20 as you stated then time to ask if those can be transferred in manually, but somehow I do not think this is just about 20 Guildies being left out in the cold. I would love you to prove me wrong, but so many times I have been disappointingly right. > > > You centered around the figure I gave as an example. Those were numbers as an example. ArenaNet has also stopped manually moving people. Because of the controversy it caused. What am I suppose to prove you wrong on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missy.7356 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 So its more? More as in war chest more? Surely you know how many family you left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Presumably this isn't just about getting orphaned guildmates onto JQ but also opening the possibility for new transfers as well. Makes sense to me it just sucks that it'll take weeks to see if it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Missy.7356 said: > So its more? More as in war chest more? Surely you know how many family you left behind. I know how many OnS has to move over specifically. I know that theres 2 guilds wanting to come to JQ that no one really knows about on JQ, thus this doesnt motivate them to tank. I 100% can confirm that if JQ did open, JQ would get more than 20 people just by the way our WvW communities work. I also do know, that ArenaNet manually locks servers if they exceed the threshold hold at an rapid pace before the next re evaluation on Monday. The risk of JQ becoming another BG and blasting up to tier 1 is largely blown out of perspective by you all, however I can not blame you giving the history and past of things like this. I'm not trying to sway you that everything will be okay if JQ opens. I much rather convince everyone that the issue is with the system at hand and not with how the player base reacts to the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > The risk of JQ becoming another BG and blasting up to tier 1 is largely blown out of perspective by you all, however I can not blame you giving the history and past of things like this. Wouldn't that ultimately be a good thing if it did happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endelon.1042 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Choppy.4183 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server That's actually a really good idea lol. I dunno why we didn't think of that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolute.6239 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Israel.7056 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > The risk of JQ becoming another BG and blasting up to tier 1 is largely blown out of perspective by you all, however I can not blame you giving the history and past of things like this. > > Wouldn't that ultimately be a good thing if it did happen? yes, and I don't see why people even care much. If JQ ends up so overstacked that they blast to T1 and can roll over BG, at least something changes bc the current "5 servers tanking to avoid bg" is killing WvW activity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Oh, JQ competing would be a good thing. What's funny is how it is being presented: people have been orphaned for 7 months. Really? It's to get people in. Just own it. Don't make it sound like you are saving WvW, or saving your server. It appears as if there are two goals: getting JQ open, or showing Anet how broken the system is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Israel.7056 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > The risk of JQ becoming another BG and blasting up to tier 1 is largely blown out of perspective by you all, however I can not blame you giving the history and past of things like this. > > Wouldn't that ultimately be a good thing if it did happen? Probably for everyone who is avoiding BG, because then the'd have a lot less of a chance to be placed with them. For JQ no. Nothing about Tier 1 has changed even if JQ gained the population. BG is the least liked community in terms of being paired with. There isn't a single server willing to deal with them. It would take extreme effort to toppal them to the point of burn out. We can play the "if" game... even though its highly unlikely JQ would be able to stand up to BG even if they did open for 7 days or less, lets pretend that it would. Tier 1 would have a point of extreme activity and excitement for about 4 weeks. especially in the match up of BG/SoS/JQ. If BG is overthrown, then BG will go to sleep as they do for instance when MAG overthrows them with a server-link. When BG goes to sleep, the competing servers still need to play very hard to beat and keep up with them. BG doesn't. Because WvW, isn't just about population but its about coverage and while, "FA and JQ is within 10% of BG (Quote from ArenaNet)" their actual timezone coverage is a much wider spread. Making it always stressful for a server to stand up to them. It's impossible to keep trying. I had a very interesting conversation (1 of many) with Blackgates NA server leader. Shes a very nice person and we don't always agree, but as she pointed out in a previous thread this is where me and her agree 100%. BG possesses a certain mentality that's been dying off for ages. People equate this to PPT versus Fights. This is the core element that breaks WvW and in my opinion all problems even with coverage and population starts here. So I'mma beat the dead horse here and say that ArenaNet can't properly stat track, analyze, and balance us off of they data they have and determine ideal scenarios if the WvW community is never motivated or is never fighting for the same goals. Our goals depict how we play and what numbers we desire and WvW has no goals. There was a time where everyone played like BG did. Once ones community realizes the truth of the matter, they develop different goals. The truth? WvW has no meaning. The only goals set fourth after the gimmick reward tracks is self made goals by the communities themselves. BG is one of the last standing that plays the game in a way that is literally correct to play. They've been at it for a long time and every single month there are less, PPTers and more fighters on every server. Remember Yaks Bend? Everyone hated Yaks Bend with an utter passion. Why was that? It was their play style. But yet even Yaks Bend has made a dramatic change from their PPT ways. Right now I would call YB a fighter community rather than a PPT server as it use to be. Servers playing for the win in 2017 see no point. Taking objectives is viewed as work. Fighting under arrow carts are not fun but its required to win. Its required to take first place and the only benefit is morale. You have to do all this to beat BG. So, at the end of the day, JQ will then get bored like BG is bored right now. Then JQ would disperse or organize another tank to drop out. In which case BG would just continue dominating. the cycle would continue until the system is changed and they reset servers. JQ has no attention to fight BG if it doesnt have to. JQ has been floating on purpose in T2 for those 6 to 7 months of it being locked because staying up against BG would kill the server faster than tanking to T4 would. In tier 2 if you're first place, you're last place. This is considered the tier of death for the 5 servers that fight over T2 positions. T2 is a game of how to avoid T1 and JQ gaining numbers isnt going to change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > > > > > > > Which is a problem of those players' own making. You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server, or your guild could stop recruiting off server if it doesn't want to move. > > > > > > > > And the wvw population is already way down. It started dropping way before servers started getting locked, and it's happening on all servers by the look of it. > > > > > > Yes those players have the choice to xfer, splitting apart their community to take a gamble on a new one. Perhaps they should go to a linked server where they then would have to move every 2months to get the type of fights they desire. Perhaps those players would like to play with 1 or 2 or 3 guilds of the same server of JQ. Perhaps if they move the rest would move with them because they're like a family. You tell me whats worse. 20 people joining a family of 300, or 300 players moving to a server. > > > > > > You can easily see where the logic of just xfer falls flat. > > > > You conveniently chose to skip the bit about not recruiting off server, huh? > > No I didn't conveniently skip it. If you can't see the flaws in your logic well then. I have nothing more to say. Actually, by skipping that part you demonstrated flawed logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Choppy.4183 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > > > > > > > > > Which is a problem of those players' own making. You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server, or your guild could stop recruiting off server if it doesn't want to move. > > > > > > > > > > And the wvw population is already way down. It started dropping way before servers started getting locked, and it's happening on all servers by the look of it. > > > > > > > > Yes those players have the choice to xfer, splitting apart their community to take a gamble on a new one. Perhaps they should go to a linked server where they then would have to move every 2months to get the type of fights they desire. Perhaps those players would like to play with 1 or 2 or 3 guilds of the same server of JQ. Perhaps if they move the rest would move with them because they're like a family. You tell me whats worse. 20 people joining a family of 300, or 300 players moving to a server. > > > > > > > > You can easily see where the logic of just xfer falls flat. > > > > > > You conveniently chose to skip the bit about not recruiting off server, huh? > > > > No I didn't conveniently skip it. If you can't see the flaws in your logic well then. I have nothing more to say. > > Actually, by skipping that part you demonstrated flawed logic. My guild doesnt seek to recruit off server. We've been to alot of servers and we've played this game for years. Players stop playing the game when there is no new content. When an expansion launches they come back. What happens if that guild has moved on and those players come back to a near dead server away from their friends. Those players will want to reunite with there friends in wake of the expansion. By skipping it i didn't expose any flaw in my logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is a problem of those players' own making. You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server, or your guild could stop recruiting off server if it doesn't want to move. > > > > > > > > > > > > And the wvw population is already way down. It started dropping way before servers started getting locked, and it's happening on all servers by the look of it. > > > > > > > > > > Yes those players have the choice to xfer, splitting apart their community to take a gamble on a new one. Perhaps they should go to a linked server where they then would have to move every 2months to get the type of fights they desire. Perhaps those players would like to play with 1 or 2 or 3 guilds of the same server of JQ. Perhaps if they move the rest would move with them because they're like a family. You tell me whats worse. 20 people joining a family of 300, or 300 players moving to a server. > > > > > > > > > > You can easily see where the logic of just xfer falls flat. > > > > > > > > You conveniently chose to skip the bit about not recruiting off server, huh? > > > > > > No I didn't conveniently skip it. If you can't see the flaws in your logic well then. I have nothing more to say. > > > > Actually, by skipping that part you demonstrated flawed logic. > > My guild doesnt seek to recruit off server. We've been to alot of servers and we've played this game for years. Players stop playing the game when there is no new content. When an expansion launches they come back. What happens if that guild has moved on and those players come back to a near dead server away from their friends. Those players will want to reunite with there friends in wake of the expansion. > > By skipping it i didn't expose any flaw in my logic. So you figure the importance of reuniting those few fairweather players is worth exacerbating the overstack problem? Seems legit.... Are those few poor souls the reason most of JQ has stopped playing then? Couldn't be the far more obvious desire to recruit en masse.... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Choppy.4183 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is a problem of those players' own making. You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server, or your guild could stop recruiting off server if it doesn't want to move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the wvw population is already way down. It started dropping way before servers started getting locked, and it's happening on all servers by the look of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes those players have the choice to xfer, splitting apart their community to take a gamble on a new one. Perhaps they should go to a linked server where they then would have to move every 2months to get the type of fights they desire. Perhaps those players would like to play with 1 or 2 or 3 guilds of the same server of JQ. Perhaps if they move the rest would move with them because they're like a family. You tell me whats worse. 20 people joining a family of 300, or 300 players moving to a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can easily see where the logic of just xfer falls flat. > > > > > > > > > > You conveniently chose to skip the bit about not recruiting off server, huh? > > > > > > > > No I didn't conveniently skip it. If you can't see the flaws in your logic well then. I have nothing more to say. > > > > > > Actually, by skipping that part you demonstrated flawed logic. > > > > My guild doesnt seek to recruit off server. We've been to alot of servers and we've played this game for years. Players stop playing the game when there is no new content. When an expansion launches they come back. What happens if that guild has moved on and those players come back to a near dead server away from their friends. Those players will want to reunite with there friends in wake of the expansion. > > > > By skipping it i didn't expose any flaw in my logic. > > So you figure the importance of reuniting those few fairweather players is worth exacerbating the overstack problem? Seems legit.... > > Are those few poor souls the reason most of JQ has stopped playing then? Couldn't be the far more obvious desire to recruit en masse.... XD I never said JQ was overstacked you did. I dont hold that opinion. Nor do I think JQ will be the new BG for opening for 7 days or less. These are all youre opinions that JQ does not hold. you called players who get bored because of the game state fairweather? how is that fair. You should be promoting players coming back to the game and not smearing them calling them fairweather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightBeAqua.7913 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 You guys act like OnS is the only guild with people stuck off server OMEGALUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood.5607 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Choppy.4183 said: > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > > > > > @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said: > > > > > > > > Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough. From that point on communities everywhere will start to feel powerless... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which is a problem of those players' own making. You have a choice to transfer everyone to an open server, or your guild could stop recruiting off server if it doesn't want to move. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the wvw population is already way down. It started dropping way before servers started getting locked, and it's happening on all servers by the look of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes those players have the choice to xfer, splitting apart their community to take a gamble on a new one. Perhaps they should go to a linked server where they then would have to move every 2months to get the type of fights they desire. Perhaps those players would like to play with 1 or 2 or 3 guilds of the same server of JQ. Perhaps if they move the rest would move with them because they're like a family. You tell me whats worse. 20 people joining a family of 300, or 300 players moving to a server. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can easily see where the logic of just xfer falls flat. > > > > > > > > > > You conveniently chose to skip the bit about not recruiting off server, huh? > > > > > > > > No I didn't conveniently skip it. If you can't see the flaws in your logic well then. I have nothing more to say. > > > > > > Actually, by skipping that part you demonstrated flawed logic. > > > > My guild doesnt seek to recruit off server. We've been to alot of servers and we've played this game for years. Players stop playing the game when there is no new content. When an expansion launches they come back. What happens if that guild has moved on and those players come back to a near dead server away from their friends. Those players will want to reunite with there friends in wake of the expansion. > > > > By skipping it i didn't expose any flaw in my logic. > > So you figure the importance of reuniting those few fairweather players is worth exacerbating the overstack problem? Seems legit.... > > Are those few poor souls the reason most of JQ has stopped playing then? Couldn't be the far more obvious desire to recruit en masse.... XD Actually top kek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaz.3819 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Part of the determination for whether to open a server has to be consideration of "off hour" players too. Does JQ have any SEA players perhaps? The rumor is JQ is just as active but "went Mag" and decided to look for fights instead of PPT game. PPT game determines Tier so not correlated to active players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Artaz.3819 said: > Part of the determination for whether to open a server has to be consideration of "off hour" players too. Does JQ have any SEA players perhaps? Yeah, we also have cloudfly who does heavy lifting from OCX to SEA and even EU. Even he is playing less for the backout. Cloudfly is one of the only commanders who wants to fight Blackgate and be in T1 on JQ but even he understands and is following along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPanda.1872 Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"MaLeVoLenT.8129" said: > > @Artaz.3819 said: > > Part of the determination for whether to open a server has to be consideration of "off hour" players too. Does JQ have any SEA players perhaps? > > Yeah, we also have cloudfly who does heavy lifting from OCX to SEA and even EU. Even he is playing less for the backout. Cloudfly is one of the only commanders who wants to fight Blackgate and be in T1 on JQ but even he understands and is following along. Which is undersatndable for every off hour players playing on JQ, it’s literally blobbing face roll on t3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondgirl.6315 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"MaLeVoLenT.8129" said: > > @diamondgirl.6315 said: > > "Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough." > > > > Not enough to make them move servers. > > I mean, we've done this before. Its called implosion and it results in the samething. A stacked server. The only difference is this stacked server is now disorganize and split. So tanking is the better option hence the 5 or so servers doing it. I wouldn't say better. I'd say worse. Moving your guild to a server where they can all fit and have fun sounds way better to me than staying in a server and spoiling other peoples' fun by tanking. But it's an opinion thing, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @"diamondgirl.6315" said: > > @"MaLeVoLenT.8129" said: > > > @diamondgirl.6315 said: > > > "Being locked and split from your friends for 7 months is enough." > > > > > > Not enough to make them move servers. > > > > I mean, we've done this before. Its called implosion and it results in the samething. A stacked server. The only difference is this stacked server is now disorganize and split. So tanking is the better option hence the 5 or so servers doing it. > > I wouldn't say better. I'd say worse. Moving your guild to a server where they can all fit and have fun sounds way better to me than staying in a server and spoiling other peoples' fun by tanking. But it's an opinion thing, I guess. We wouldn't be moving just my guild. Because pugs and guilds follow other guilds. Pugs have commanders they rather follow, and guilds like to work with each other. If OnS left JQ, we wouldn't leave alone and its unfeasible for us to do so. My guild is not the only guild like this, and chain effects is what kills off servers. So it would be worse. Ive done it before. 4 times. Everytime my guild has moved. People complained about spoiling fun, now youre asking me to do it again. The same people who are complaining about Jade Quarry are the very same people who would complain if a large body of guilds and players went to another server. My guild also shares members with other guilds on JQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Everyone should be allowed to play how they want, just don't be upset if it comes back to bite you in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaLeVoLenT.8129 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 You guys asking JQ to destack instead is implying others would do the same. Yet BG has been locked for a lot longer and they remain the same. If BG destacked maybe T1 would be fitting for the 5 servers that avoid it. But Let me tell you whats not going to happen...BG isnt going to destack for the enjoyment of other servers. Neither will Jade Quarry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts