Why did we get an xpac weapon that does nothing?

[Obtena.7952]

You're not paying attention. I didn't ask you if it was better. I asked you for the ranged condi weapon you are using on a condi build. I think it's interesting you quote me a melee weapon off skills for that. Again, you don't seem to get the fact that the SBow isn't there to outperform. It's the ranged condi option. That's what it's for. Maybe you like to complicate the reasons to create a justification for improvement.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> You're not paying attention. I didn't ask you if it was better. I asked you for the ranged condi weapon you are using on a condi build. I think it's interesting you quote me a melee weapon off skills for that. Again, you don't seem to get the fact that the SBow isn't there to outperform. It's the ranged condi option. That's what it's for.

 

The range on mace/axe on the ranged skills alone is enough to compete and out perform all the ranged attacks on short bow. It is a ranged weapon set.

 

I'm paying attention just fine, are you?

[Obtena.7952]

There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

[JayAction.9056]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

 

Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

>

> Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

>

 

That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread. People are claiming Sbow doesn't perform and has no purpose. Performance isn't why we get weapon choice and it has a purpose as a ranged condi weapon. Seems to me those reasons don't make much sense.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> >

> > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> >

>

> That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

 

The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> > >

> > > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> > >

> >

> > That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

>

> The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

>

 

Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> > > >

> > > > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

> >

> > The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

> >

>

> Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

 

Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> > > > >

> > > > > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

> > >

> > > The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

> > >

> >

> > Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

>

> Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

 

For RP perhaps? lol

[Obtena.7952]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> > > > >

> > > > > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

> > >

> > > The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

> > >

> >

> > Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

>

> Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

 

It doesn't need to do 'anything good' ... there are lots of weapons that don't do 'anything good'. If you play the game for more than just pressing random buttons, then use the weapons that do the good things you want. You're argument fails because there are lots of choices for good and 'not anything good' people. Never has "it's not good for anything" been a compelling reason to fix a weapon, otherwise, all weapons in this game would be good for something.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > There you go with the 'outperform' again ... let me ask you a question ... if you are so convinced Anet is all about giving us tons of awesomely performing wepaons, how do you explain the whole game for the last 5 years?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Brah cmon. Just stop. You suck at rev or don't even play it. You're derailing my thread.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a serious question and it goes to the topic of the thread.

> > > >

> > > > The short bus is about to leave my friend, better hurry up.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Don't worry, I just got off and it dropped me on this thread. Not a coincidence.

> >

> > Listen short bus, if a weapon doesn't do anything good, what is the purpose of using it? Some people play this game for more than just pressing random buttons.

>

> It doesn't need to do 'anything good' ... there are lots of weapons that don't do 'anything good'. If you play the game for more than just pressing random buttons, then use the weapons that do the good things you want. You're argument fails because there are lots of choices for good and 'not anything good' people. Never has "it's not good for anything" been a compelling reason to fix a weapon, otherwise, all weapons in this game would be good for something.

 

...lmfao ok man

 

 

[otto.5684]

Guys Obtena does not play or understand rev and tends to troll, so just ignore. It is well established that SB is garbage. There are tons of detailed feedback over many threads why. Considering that Anet thought that OH sword remake was a higher priority, SB odds of having any functional use are null.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> That's false. The weapons used in Factals and raids are the ones which provide **better sustained damage**, because spike damage means nothing if the damage over time is bad. And short bow of course will have a kitten damage: mele weapons must always need to have better dps to balance the lack of range. ANet should had focus into making the short bow a good PvP weapon wecause anyway there had no chance to replace mace + axe as condi damage dealer.

 

As you pointed out, Factals. I am talking WvW. Burst is the way to go every time and that is why its not used in PvP/WvW because its burst, sustained and just general damage is just poor. PvE is totally different and it is weaker for different reasons there. In WvW you wouldnt take Short Bow over Hammer in ANY situation at the moment because Hammer does WAAAAAAY more damage, has further range and has some nice CC abilities and such which can be (even if minor...) help in Zergs. In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same crap damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

 

If solo, while its melee Mace/Axe is by FAR the better choice, more damage, more conditions, CC, gap closer. Short Bow needs several skills redesigned because they are SO poorly implemented and need damage and condition buffs. With the nerfs coming on Tuesday it will make an already crappy weapon even worse :/

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

The odds of having SB changed aren't null, but it's certainly not as bad as you make it out to be. The problem is that it does what it's intended to do; be an option as a ranged condi weapon. This is what matters in this game. Being the at the height of performance has not cause other not-best weapons being fixed ... why all of the sudden does that apply to Sbow? That argument makes NO sense.

 

[Lahmia.2193]

It's funny, before PoF I always liked to play condi rev in pug t4 fractals but there was always a problem with a lack of proper ranged condi weapon. Some bosses you straight up can't melee 24/7 and so I would be stuck using condi rev's limited ranged abilities, doing very little damage. So yes, shortbow does fill a role. Is it in a good place? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But it does have a role and it seems like 90% of the people on this thread are ignorant to this fact.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

 

 

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> It's funny, before PoF I always liked to play condi rev in pug t4 fractals but there was always a problem with a lack of proper ranged condi weapon. Some bosses you straight up can't melee 24/7 and so I would be stuck using condi rev's limited ranged abilities, doing very little damage. So yes, shortbow does fill a role. Is it in a good place? No. Can it be improved? Yes. But it does have a role and it seems like 90% of the people on this thread are ignorant to this fact.

 

Yeah but it'd be still cool to remind Anet that SB could use an improvement.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

>

> It is that bad. Don't say stupid kitten like this.

> > @"Evolute.6239" said:

> > If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

> >

> > It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

> >

> > I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

>

> No it does nowhere near the damage as power rev on a dummy. Honestly how did you even come to that conclusion? Look at the damage coefficients. That says it all. Go test it on the dummy though and get back to me.

>

 

Actually a member of Snow Crows said that shortbow viper renegade benchmarked around 24k which right around sword rev dps and probably a bit higher. Regardless both options would need about a 25% DPS increase to reach the lower threshold for what is considered acceptable as a DPS spot in raids which shows how absurdly bad both of them are.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

hammer is a better ranged condi weapon...

[JayAction.9056]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

> >

> > It is that bad. Don't say stupid kitten like this.

> > > @"Evolute.6239" said:

> > > If I recall correctly, bow camping condi renegade does more damage than power rev on a dummy (lol)

> > >

> > > It's a pretty mediocre weapon, but it does its niche in giving rev a ranged option other than hammer which was awful and made no sense for condi.

> > >

> > > I don't see many people complaining about longbow on dragonhunter because it's dps is awful.

> >

> > No it does nowhere near the damage as power rev on a dummy. Honestly how did you even come to that conclusion? Look at the damage coefficients. That says it all. Go test it on the dummy though and get back to me.

> >

>

> Actually a member of Snow Crows said that shortbow viper renegade benchmarked around 24k which right around sword rev dps and probably a bit higher. Regardless both options would need about a 25% DPS increase to reach the lower threshold for what is considered acceptable as a DPS spot in raids which shows how absurdly bad both of them are.

 

Hmm, I guess I should have clarified in the op this thread is mainly with regards to PvP.

 

PvE and raiding in this game is beyond stupid easy and there are way more builds that exist that are viable because of how easy things are. I don't really engage in that portion of the game anymore.

 

The only way possible short bow could ever achieve that number is if you land all attacks achieve maximum condi stacks for the weapon on an extremely high hp target and keep that going. Basically outside of a dummy (PvE target) it's not going to have as high as damage output as sword. And even on a dummy it's not going to realistically happen.

 

Edit: You could make this statement for pretty much every game with a online PvP community. Playing against another player is always harder than playing against the computer.

[Evolute.6239]

A weapon not being great in PVP isn't anything new. Rev has many problems in sPVP, and Bow is not a particularly important one.

[Buran.3796]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same crap damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

 

 

I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

 

@Lahmia, Vasdamas:

 

I'm really not asking for improvements in the short bow, has no use for me. But I would like if ANet lets the Herald alone and stops making things even worse. They failed doing the core Rev and the Renegade spec; would be nice if they let the only thing with the class which works to keep it running.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > In Solo play, either of them are good choices Hammer is easy to counter when 1 Vs 1 and Short Bow still has the same crap damage it had in Zergs. So while Hammer does better damage, its SO easy to avoid and Short bow does damage, quite easy to hit but the damage is trash.

>

>

> I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

>

> @Lahmia, Vasdamas:

>

> I'm really not asking for improvements in the short bow, has no use for me. But I would like if ANet lets the Herald alone and stops making things even worse. They failed doing the core Rev and the Renegade spec; would be nice if they let the only thing with the class which works to keep it running.

 

Funny that, as someone that plays condi rev in pve Renegade was a godsend. I guess it depends on the game mode you play.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

 

>

> Funny that, as someone that plays condi rev in pve Renegade was a godsend. I guess it depends on the game mode you play.

 

Totally. But don't say PvE when you really mean raids. Because for open world PvE/dungeons/fractals/story mode Renegade isn't needed at all, and for PvP/WvW is all "thank, no thanks ANet".

[Lucifer.7289]

> @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > @Lahmia.2193 said:

> > Because Rev was missing a ranged condition weapon. Yes it needs improving but stop being a drama queen about it. It's not that bad.

>

> It is though. Even if you land all of its slow clunky abilities its damage is terrible.

 

The damage is pretty good on SB, it's the slow god awful animations that kill it for Spvp/wvw. SB number 2/3 hit like a truck with condi, 7 instant torrment stacks/bleeds ect. Number 5 knock down is pretty nice as well.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> I saw Justine's videos kicking heads using a glass cannon hammer build for roaming, and yesterday Byrevanent was using hammer + sword + shield in matches with double Scourge in the enemy team at PvP with great effect.

 

Odd you mention Hammer Rev Roaming, because i killed like 4 today with ease. Hammer is VERY easy to counter and you would have to be fighting someone AFK or someone know doesnt know how to counter Hammer to win. The moment you go melee, they are forced into swapping weapon because it loses all its threat.