Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > I don't think the economy suffers from the farm-country. It mainly affects hoarders. For example, with PoF, total costs for a legendary weapon dropped from more than 3000 gold to sometimes 2200. Does that mean it's easier or faster for players now to get a legendary weapon? The answer is no, it's about the same as before. Before, you could sell stacks of ectos for 80 gold each and purchase mats you needed. Now a stack is sold for 50g or so, and the other mats are cheaper too. It's only cheaper now if you buy gold with gems/real money to purchase the stuff you need. And if your main source of income is mats you sell to vendors, because these prices didn't change. I gave that for obvious, but probably explain it was really the best idea. Purchasing power tends to remain the same, except in some situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Lol people will get bored of istani soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Coulter.2315" said: > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). Definitely not. Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. But what you do propose is way, way horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambros Augustus.6594 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Remember when people were asking for the leather price nerf, now you got rare price nerf. Its important for players to get something of value to drop or they may play the game less. Silvers would have been better to drop and might have helped people save up for mounts and the 30 pack bikini armor which hopefully comes to gemstore at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > Definitely not. > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > > > Definitely not. > > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. > > I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. > > I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. The recipes you proposed as examples are for account bound items, which requires time Gate items like lump of mithrilum. I simply said that we don't need more time Gate items. Guess what about time Gate not tradable items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > > > > > Definitely not. > > > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > > > > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > > > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. > > > > I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. > > > > I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. > > The recipes you proposed as examples are for account bound items, which requires time Gate items like lump of mithrilum. > I simply said that we don't need more time Gate items. Guess what about time Gate not tradable items. The items I posted do not use lumps of mithrillium, did you not look at the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > > > > > > > Definitely not. > > > > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > > > > > > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > > > > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. > > > > > > I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. > > > > > > I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. > > > > The recipes you proposed as examples are for account bound items, which requires time Gate items like lump of mithrilum. > > I simply said that we don't need more time Gate items. Guess what about time Gate not tradable items. > > The items I posted do not use lumps of mithrillium, did you not look at the link? Were you only talking about the part 1x t6 items? Guess you were talking about sinks. What I mean is that 4 t6 is not the sink part in the whole craft. Check it on the website. And it needs from 3 to 4 whole craft in order to buy a single item, so even 4x3 or 4x4 would have been not a sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulter.2315 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > > > > > > > > > Definitely not. > > > > > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > > > > > > > > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > > > > > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. > > > > > > > > I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. > > > > > > > > I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. > > > > > > The recipes you proposed as examples are for account bound items, which requires time Gate items like lump of mithrilum. > > > I simply said that we don't need more time Gate items. Guess what about time Gate not tradable items. > > > > The items I posted do not use lumps of mithrillium, did you not look at the link? > > Were you only talking about the part 1x t6 items? > Guess you were talking about sinks. > I was talking about everything on that page, here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered_Mithril_Ingot https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Elder_Wood_Plank https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Cured_Thick_Leather_Square https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered_Cured_Thick_Leather_Square https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Empowered_Silk https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Mithril_Ingot https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Might These are solid sinks and could be added to a bunch of recipes with no time gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 First, new armors do already use that system ( regarless we do consider it a good/bad sinc ). Here you can see the items you can purchase with the [Grandmaster Tailor's Marks](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Marks"). The only problem about this system, and that's what i was pointing out, is that part of the item you want to craft force you to do timegate crafts. IE, the [Grandmaster Tailor's Mark](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Mark") requires 1. 1x [Lump of Mithrillum](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lump_of_Mithrillium "Lump of Mithrillum") in order to craft [Carbonized Mithrillum ingot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Carbonized_Mithrillium_Ingot "Carbonized Mithrillum ingot"). 2. 2x [spool of Silk Weaving Threads](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Silk_Weaving_Thread "Spool of Silk Weaving Threads") in order to craft 2x [square of Vabbian Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Square_of_Vabbian_Silk "Square of Vabbian Silk"). 3. 1x [spool of Thick Elonian Cord](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Thick_Elonian_Cord "Spool of Thick Elonian Cord") , in order to craft [blended leather sheet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blended_Leather_Sheet "Blended leather sheet"). 4. 1x [bolt of empowered Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Empowered_Silk "Bolt of empowered Silk"), which requires 1x globe of dark matter and 500 tailoring ( but it's imho the easier, since 1 out of 3 exotics tends to drop dark matter... also crafting skills are easy to level and everybody can do it ). Shortly, most of the crafts you need in order to do those specific materials ( and the final materials themselves ) require time gate crafts which can't be traded. While i do understand maybe the necessity of more material sinks in order to modify the market prices, i wouldn't like to have more timegate items. PS: i do know that SPvP gives you 3x marks for free every season, but as for wvw and pve you have to craft them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Silk 30c, ectos 19s, thick leather 54c, powerful bloods 28s. > > This map has single-handedly destroyed the entire games economy. Is there going to be a fix for this? No, thanks. The economy can go rot in hell. I know you want to keep crap exclusive, but playing the damn game should give you the damn items without massive grind or auction house baron minigames. I despise MMO's in which economy dictates luxury item acquisition. WoW got it right, the economy is entirely optional, and the luxury items are gated behind actual challenging combat content without materials grind or playing the auction house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Zenith.7301" said: > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > Silk 30c, ectos 19s, thick leather 54c, powerful bloods 28s. > > > > This map has single-handedly destroyed the entire games economy. Is there going to be a fix for this? > > No, thanks. > > The economy can go rot in hell. > > I know you want to keep crap exclusive, but playing the kitten game should give you the kitten items without massive grind or auction house baron minigames. > > I despise MMO's in which economy dictates luxury item acquisition. WoW got it right, the economy is entirely optional, and the luxury items are gated behind actual challenging combat content without materials grind or playing the auction house. What are you talking about? The material sinks associated with luxury items here are quite mild. The game throws enough gold in your face to buy everything you're short. Material grind? Auction house playing? These are entirely optional. I've never done either and I've never been gated by materials to make a luxury item, save for my very first legendary weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanze.8410 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > > > > > @"Coulter.2315" said: > > > > > > > We need more sinks, so much worthless material is floating about. The new armour and weapons should have required a bit more material to create (some things from this page for example https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic). > > > > > > > > > > > > Definitely not. > > > > > > Those are account bound items, which would have meant that leggies would have been all time gate items ( removed the possibility to buy ascended materials from TP ). > > > > > > > > > > > > T2 leggies are a PITA because you are forced to farm a specific thing and you can't delegate someone else, paying him for his task instead. > > > > > > But what you do propose is way, way horrible. > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what on earth you are trying to say. Nothing makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > I proposed using material consuming pre-existing crafted mats as part of the recipes for new items being put into the game. We need things which consume materials. > > > > > > > > The recipes you proposed as examples are for account bound items, which requires time Gate items like lump of mithrilum. > > > > I simply said that we don't need more time Gate items. Guess what about time Gate not tradable items. > > > > > > The items I posted do not use lumps of mithrillium, did you not look at the link? > > > > Were you only talking about the part 1x t6 items? > > Guess you were talking about sinks. > > > > I was talking about everything on that page, here: > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Magic > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered_Mithril_Ingot > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Elder_Wood_Plank > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Cured_Thick_Leather_Square > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empowered_Cured_Thick_Leather_Square > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Empowered_Silk > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaponized_Mithril_Ingot > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vial_of_Might > > These are solid sinks and could be added to a bunch of recipes with no time gates. Grandmaster weaponsmith/huntsman/artificer marks do get a new sink today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Silk 30c, ectos 19s, thick leather 54c, powerful bloods 28s. > > This map has single-handedly destroyed the entire games economy. Is there going to be a fix for this? LOL. First good map (since HoT) and very enjoyable and you want already its death? We just need to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandiarie.7195 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Yeah anet might want to make those caches go away maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"aandiarie.7195" said: > Yeah anet might want to make those caches go away maybe I think they are per character. Maybe per account would have been a nicer idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 The only person I would listen to if they posted in this thread is Wanze, otherwise I don't think anyone else understand Economy 101....you do know that all good economies are actually consumer driven...i.e., the more the consumer has to spend the faster the economy will grow. IF Anet wanted to they could up the time gated items from 1 per day to 2 per day, would speed up the process by 2 but still keep it time gated, only half the time needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 It will be changed too gove t1 mats 10x of mat with same price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear.2497 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I am in the top 1% in terms of wealth (based on liquid gold value). I am happy more people can afford to craft expensive items. I still am able to make good gold and increase my wealth. I don't see any problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > First, new armors do already use that system ( regarless we do consider it a good/bad sinc ). > > Here you can see the items you can purchase with the [Grandmaster Tailor's Marks](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Marks"). > > The only problem about this system, and that's what i was pointing out, is that part of the item you want to craft force you to do timegate crafts. > > IE, the [Grandmaster Tailor's Mark](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Mark") requires > > 1. 1x [Lump of Mithrillum](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lump_of_Mithrillium "Lump of Mithrillum") in order to craft [Carbonized Mithrillum ingot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Carbonized_Mithrillium_Ingot "Carbonized Mithrillum ingot"). > 2. 2x [spool of Silk Weaving Threads](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Silk_Weaving_Thread "Spool of Silk Weaving Threads") in order to craft 2x [square of Vabbian Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Square_of_Vabbian_Silk "Square of Vabbian Silk"). > 3. 1x [spool of Thick Elonian Cord](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Thick_Elonian_Cord "Spool of Thick Elonian Cord") , in order to craft [blended leather sheet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blended_Leather_Sheet "Blended leather sheet"). > 4. 1x [bolt of empowered Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Empowered_Silk "Bolt of empowered Silk"), which requires 1x globe of dark matter and 500 tailoring ( but it's imho the easier, since 1 out of 3 exotics tends to drop dark matter... also crafting skills are easy to level and everybody can do it ). > > Shortly, most of the crafts you need in order to do those specific materials ( and the final materials themselves ) require time gate crafts which can't be traded. > While i do understand maybe the necessity of more material sinks in order to modify the market prices, i wouldn't like to have more timegate items. > > PS: i do know that SPvP gives you 3x marks for free every season, but as for wvw and pve you have to craft them. > I highly suggest that you read their post(s) and go to the link that they had provided. They’re are not referring to the timegated recipes and have told you that already. No need for strawmans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > First, new armors do already use that system ( regarless we do consider it a good/bad sinc ). > > > > Here you can see the items you can purchase with the [Grandmaster Tailor's Marks](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Marks"). > > > > The only problem about this system, and that's what i was pointing out, is that part of the item you want to craft force you to do timegate crafts. > > > > IE, the [Grandmaster Tailor's Mark](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grandmaster_Tailor%27s_Mark "Grandmaster Tailor's Mark") requires > > > > 1. 1x [Lump of Mithrillum](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lump_of_Mithrillium "Lump of Mithrillum") in order to craft [Carbonized Mithrillum ingot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Carbonized_Mithrillium_Ingot "Carbonized Mithrillum ingot"). > > 2. 2x [spool of Silk Weaving Threads](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Silk_Weaving_Thread "Spool of Silk Weaving Threads") in order to craft 2x [square of Vabbian Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Square_of_Vabbian_Silk "Square of Vabbian Silk"). > > 3. 1x [spool of Thick Elonian Cord](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spool_of_Thick_Elonian_Cord "Spool of Thick Elonian Cord") , in order to craft [blended leather sheet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blended_Leather_Sheet "Blended leather sheet"). > > 4. 1x [bolt of empowered Silk](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Empowered_Silk "Bolt of empowered Silk"), which requires 1x globe of dark matter and 500 tailoring ( but it's imho the easier, since 1 out of 3 exotics tends to drop dark matter... also crafting skills are easy to level and everybody can do it ). > > > > Shortly, most of the crafts you need in order to do those specific materials ( and the final materials themselves ) require time gate crafts which can't be traded. > > While i do understand maybe the necessity of more material sinks in order to modify the market prices, i wouldn't like to have more timegate items. > > > > PS: i do know that SPvP gives you 3x marks for free every season, but as for wvw and pve you have to craft them. > > > > I highly suggest that you read their post(s) and go to the link that they had provided. They’re are not referring to the timegated recipes and have told you that already. No need for strawmans. I did, and i supposed he was refered to the whole part as i said in my previous post ( i suggest that you read the whole conversation before reply ). And a 1xT6 mat in a scenario which requires other items which are accountbound is not a sink ( the account bound ones are definitely better sinks ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 First off I am not saying we need less loot, I am taking about balance in loot and value of loot, and yes a lot is player driven but we need to look at the big picture and not short term gains as well. We also need to make sure different maps/modes stay in somewhat a balance in gain else we end up with dead zones. Sorry in my job role I usually have to play the other side to make sure group think isn't in effect so some of this is the fact that not many are questioning both sides of this question. > @"polarbear.2497" said: > I am in the top 1% in terms of wealth (based on liquid gold value). I am happy more people can afford to craft expensive items. I still am able to make good gold and increase my wealth. I don't see any problem. But can they? You said you have the gold so you are already beyond that point, I admit so I am. Now picture a new level 80 that needs icy runestones, how long does it take them to get it if the loot they acquired sells for coppers where yours was selling for silvers or golds. Again there are items outside of crafting materials that players will needs to acquire that also need to be considered. You need ascended recipes, they still cost 5 gold for each piece so 30 gold for set. The less the value of drops the more they need to gather. Drops aren't bad, its about balance of drops, liquid gold and appropriate syncs that always need to be watched. Again not looking at Istan but more making sure we keep a balance else we end up in a bad spot and risk issues like the leather change. And yes there are other activities to acquire coin, if you are a PvPer you are probably thinking who needs gold. We also might have more syncs right around the corner that we don't know about but we need an eye on that balance since there are more than just material costs out there. Nothing wrong with people getting mats they need for their projects, not a fan of junk loot. Sorry ANet, but it's in ANet's favor to have loot at lowered value because people with disposable income can just buy gems and go for gold, that's ok it supports game development, but we need to retain players too that may not want to feel forced to do that. So we always need to keep an eye on balance. Good looting to you and have fun! Is it time for Snowball Mayhem yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickut.4915 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > Silk 30c, ectos 19s, thick leather 54c, powerful bloods 28s. > > This map has single-handedly destroyed the entire games economy. Is there going to be a fix for this? "Single-handedly destroyed the entire games economy", just sais four items that have changed in price, which already changed before the release of Istan, specialy the ectos. You need to complain less and enjoy the joy of farming in GW2. Enjoy the loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > The only person I would listen to if they posted in this thread is Wanze, otherwise I don't think anyone else understand Economy 101 I respect your admiration for Wanze, but several people here stated similar views. You might wanna rethink your view of "authorities" though. It's not about the person who says something, it's about the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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