Renegade is slow

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> > > Renegade running speed is slow compared to other classes.

> > > Running speed while wielding Sword or Axe is slow.. running with Short Bow is just horrible... its feels like 10% faster of being crippled.

> > > If not for Rune of the Traveller (stats +25 run speed) i would have stopped playing this on long ago, but theres better runes out there as we know.

> > >

> > > And while i'm at it, there is no skill to transfer conditions (poison, burn, bleed) or *shake it off* .. there is just no way to get rid of them while other classes seem to be way better with this.

> > >

> > > Ranger , Necro have pets that pull conditions or stances that get rid of them.. just to name a few.

> > > Renegade..nada, ziltch.. nothing.

> > >

>

> > I don't get this complaint ... Renegade runs the same speed, regardless of weapon they have. That speed is the **same** as any other class' base run speed.

> > I don't even get the complaint that you HAVE to use Traveler's Runes now that mounts exist. Before PoF that would have been worth considering but now, it seems like you are joking.

>

> Nope just no, equipping a shortbow has a lower runspeed, compared to Sword+sword.. you have no clue what you are talking about.

> I use Traveller runes becouse the renegade is SLOW, are you truly blind to read.. yes i can mount.. but in a fight you will be even slower, do you get it now ??.

 

No, it doesn't. Maybe you think it does. Weapon choice has no impact on your runspeed. It never has. If you believe there is a difference in run speed because of different weapons you are using, it's a bug and you should report it. As others have said, you either have a perception issue, or you have encountered some unintended effect.

[Quarktastic.1027]

Renegade is slow. Yet I still manage to do things like solo the heat room on thaumanova, light the 4th fire in chaos, etc. Having a (nearly) spammable 600 range leap is pretty handy sometimes.

[Quarktastic.1027]

> @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> I use Renegade shortbow & dual sword - Renagade elite skills and sometimes switch to Ventari (for healing) cleanse.. myself & others.

> Yes there are movement increase skills in other legends Shiro - Revenant, but i don't use THAT build .. so saying *hey use this and this skill or use a staff for a quick dash forward*, no just no.

>

> Renegade Skill 5 sword has a dash attack, Just like skill 2 sword from Guardian.. but my guardian does not use Traveller rune and has a better basic running speed, if its from trait i can't remember.

>

> Shortbow and Dual sword.. that's what i use.. why am i so slow? why isn't there a bit more basic (10-20% more running speed) in this build, without Traveller runes .. thats all.

>

> Revenant feels like a half baked Komali.. even underwater skills are very limited compared to some cool stuff other classes have..time to get to work on Revenant anet.

 

Guardians, like revenants, have no passive monement speed buffs. All professions have the same basic movement speed regardless of race. Renegades have movement tools available, you just need to accept the fact that you'll need to alter your preferred playstyle to use them.

[Svarty.8019]

Don't expect any changes before Expac 3. Big changes like animations or movement abilities don't get changed unless there are big resources (read: M O N E Y) available, and even then there are likely to be none (see PoF), it depends how tight NCsoft are with the purse strings. From where I'm looking, it seems HoT got a ** _T O N N E_ ** more cash thrown at it than PoF did.

[Klypto.1703]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> Don't expect any changes before Expac 3. Big changes like animations or movement abilities don't get changed unless there are big resources (read: M O N E Y) available, and even then there are likely to be none (see PoF), it depends how tight NCsoft are with the purse strings. From where I'm looking, it seems HoT got a ** _T O N N E_ ** more cash thrown at it than PoF did.

 

Yeah its either going to be till they have funds to do it or doing something to make it work but right now I am leaning more towards how classes that were so far out classed in the meta that weren't used except for open world pve. Atleast until 3rd xpac comes out and puts some other class on the back burner. Right now rev is pretty much screwed from fighting in all spellbreaker/scourge meta.

[Lavyros.6258]

> @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> I use Renegade shortbow & dual sword - Renagade elite skills and sometimes switch to Ventari (for healing) cleanse.. myself & others.

> Yes there are movement increase skills in other legends Shiro - Revenant, but i don't use THAT build .. so saying *hey use this and this skill or use a staff for a quick dash forward*, no just no.

>

> Renegade Skill 5 sword has a dash attack, Just like skill 2 sword from Guardian.. but my guardian does not use Traveller rune and has a better basic running speed, if its from trait i can't remember.

>

> Shortbow and Dual sword.. that's what i use.. why am i so slow? why isn't there a bit more basic (10-20% more running speed) in this build, without Traveller runes .. thats all.

>

> Revenant feels like a half baked Komali.. even underwater skills are very limited compared to some cool stuff other classes have..time to get to work on Revenant anet.

 

You always can rely on allies for swiftness. Renegade isn't that good in open world to begin with, it's more of combat only upgrade for condi build. And you really need to change class if you don't like that some stuff is in legends you don't use. Cause rev has movement buffs, you just don't want to use it. And sword has no effect on movement speed, unless u count in Deathstike, and then you still need target to shadow step to.

[Karaha.3290]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"YoukiNeko.6047" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"Jack Skywalker.5674" said:

 

>

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposting_Shadows - can be used as a movement skill (The backwards evade transverses 600 units)

>

> Are you serious?

> Should we make a 180 degrees macro + skill?

Actually there is just an ingame function for a 180 degree turn, you just need to set a key for it.

 

> Renegade has NO way to get swiftness and has no way to move forward unless he's following sombody who wants to kill ( or a critter is there ).

 

Didnt read everything of this thread so its might be said already.

The invocation traitline have a trait wich does exactly what you want. It gives you swiftness (and a little heal) everytime you use a skill wich cost energy.

With this trait its very easy to get perma swiftness even without herald.

 

For the rest of you comment, sure you can "whine" about every single skill and trait because its not perfect, but fact is revenant have enough skills and traits to get swiftness, superspeed or capcloser.

For example Phase Traversal. You write "require target" and compare it with trash skills. But this skill gives you a 1200 range teleport with only 7 sec cd (if you have 0 energy).

It also works when your target is out of range, so you dont have to go in combat while using it. And it also brings some other benefits like unblockable buff.

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> You always can rely on allies for swiftness.

 

In my opinion. No class should be THIS reliant on allies just to be able to not move like a snail. Of course not all classes should have the exact same access to leaps, teleports, swiftness and such but Revenant outside of Herald is insanely too slow.

[Lavyros.6258]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > You always can rely on allies for swiftness.

>

> In my opinion. No class should be THIS reliant on allies just to be able to not move like a snail. Of course not all classes should have the exact same access to leaps, teleports, swiftness and such but Revenant outside of Herald is insanely too slow.

 

You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

 

Being forced to use a Legend you dont want to use? Being forced to use a Weapons and/or trait lines that you dont want to use. Revenant is rather lacking. Of course it could be WORSE but its not exactly good as it is. Look at the mobility others get then compare it to Revenant. You have to use Sword, Axe or Shiro to really have any mobility and that kinda sucks.

 

 

[Lavyros.6258]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

>

> Being forced to use a Legend you dont want to use? Being forced to use a Weapons and/or trait lines that you dont want to use. Revenant is rather lacking. Of course it could be WORSE but its not exactly good as it is. Look at the mobility others get then compare it to Revenant. You have to use Sword, Axe or Shiro to really have any mobility and that kinda sucks.

>

>

That's what u get with the class, double the skills but less choise in tuning. Shiro is movement legend, same way only Ventari has condi cleanse. You want speed you take Shiro or trait in invocation. You not forced to use anything, you just can't shoose 1 skill, the way other classes do. If you don't like this aspect of revenant, why even play it.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > You always can rely on allies for swiftness.

>

> In my opinion. No class should be THIS reliant on allies just to be able to not move like a snail. Of course not all classes should have the exact same access to leaps, teleports, swiftness and such but Revenant outside of Herald is insanely too slow.

 

If staff 5 with while having the Rapid Flow trait is too complicated for you then yes, you have to rely on other for swiftness,but not for the reasons you are talking about.

 

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

>

> Being forced to use a Legend you dont want to use? Being forced to use a Weapons and/or trait lines that you dont want to use. Revenant is rather lacking. Of course it could be WORSE but its not exactly good as it is. Look at the mobility others get then compare it to Revenant. You have to use Sword, Axe or Shiro to really have any mobility and that kinda sucks.

>

>

 

What I am going to tell will blow your mind....you can spam swiftness with just mace alone on CORE REVENANT,NO OFF HAND REQUIRED - you just need to discover that one legend that creates a thunder combo field (Dwarf Stance). It's a little better than spam staff 5 while you have Rapid Flow.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Jack Skywalker.5674" said:

> If staff 5 with while having the Rapid Flow trait is too complicated for you then yes, you have to rely on other for swiftness,but not for the reasons you are talking about.

 

> What I am going to tell will blow your mind....you can spam swiftness with just mace alone on CORE REVENANT,NO OFF HAND REQUIRED - you just need to discover that one legend that creates a thunder combo field (Dwarf Stance). It's a little better than spam staff 5 while you have Rapid Flow.

 

You can't really "spam" a skill that has a 20second cool down...

You shouldn't really be using long cool down skills for little bits of mobility, nor should you be using a skill as useful as Surge of the Mists just for mobility to actually get around.

 

Equipping Dwarf, using Inspiring Reinforcements and then using the Mace skill and then swapping back to a good legend. That is a little too much in my opinion for needing mobility. Others get it just by equipping a a kit, attuning to an element, or even getting 25% movement speed easily via traits

 

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Jack Skywalker.5674" said:

> > If staff 5 with while having the Rapid Flow trait is too complicated for you then yes, you have to rely on other for swiftness,but not for the reasons you are talking about.

>

> > What I am going to tell will blow your mind....you can spam swiftness with just mace alone on CORE REVENANT,NO OFF HAND REQUIRED - you just need to discover that one legend that creates a thunder combo field (Dwarf Stance). It's a little better than spam staff 5 while you have Rapid Flow.

>

> You can't really "spam" a skill that has a 20second cool down...

> You shouldn't really be using long cool down skills for little bits of mobility, nor should you be using a skill as useful as Surge of the Mists just for mobility to actually get around.

>

> Equipping Dwarf, using Inspiring Reinforcements and then using the Mace skill and then swapping back to a good legend. That is a little too much in my opinion for needing mobility. Others get it just by equipping a a kit, attuning to an element, or even getting 25% movement speed easily via traits

>

 

For open world PvE Dwarf is good enough,since you get multiple casts of inspiring reinforcement+mace 3 until you swap to Shiro for Impposible Odds. This is with out Rapid Flow traited.

 

In combat if you just use weapon skills with Dwarf that should be it, you shouldn't need to cast anything from that stance outside of a situational heal or inspiring reinforcement. I ignore Forced Engagement, Vengefull Hammer and Rite of the Great Dwarf in PvE,because I feel I do more damage with weapon skills.

 

Also if you feel staff 5 cd is too long,then how about spaming Ventari's Will every 2 seconds for 5 seconds of Swiftness You can replace Ventari's Will with sword 2/hammer 2/mace 2/ hammer 4 in the spam sequence for triggering Rapid Flow. Personaly I spam mace 3 because it pushes me forward a bit.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

> >

> > Being forced to use a Legend you dont want to use? Being forced to use a Weapons and/or trait lines that you dont want to use. Revenant is rather lacking. Of course it could be WORSE but its not exactly good as it is. Look at the mobility others get then compare it to Revenant. You have to use Sword, Axe or Shiro to really have any mobility and that kinda sucks.

> >

> >

> That's what u get with the class, double the skills but less choise in tuning. Shiro is movement legend, same way only Ventari has condi cleanse. You want speed you take Shiro or trait in invocation. You not forced to use anything, you just can't shoose 1 skill, the way other classes do. If you don't like this aspect of revenant, why even play it.

 

It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that. If being forced to use a legend to get a specific thing is a problem for people and they are playing Rev, they have chosen the wrong class to play.

 

I see no problem with relying on allies for an effect you might not have; no one should; it's not a unique problem to Revenant. It's how every class works, which is why it's so strange people would think it's unreasonable to do so.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > > You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

> > >

> > > Being forced to use a Legend you dont want to use? Being forced to use a Weapons and/or trait lines that you dont want to use. Revenant is rather lacking. Of course it could be WORSE but its not exactly good as it is. Look at the mobility others get then compare it to Revenant. You have to use Sword, Axe or Shiro to really have any mobility and that kinda sucks.

> > >

> > >

> > That's what u get with the class, double the skills but less choise in tuning. Shiro is movement legend, same way only Ventari has condi cleanse. You want speed you take Shiro or trait in invocation. You not forced to use anything, you just can't shoose 1 skill, the way other classes do. If you don't like this aspect of revenant, why even play it.

>

> It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that. If being forced to use a legend to get a specific thing is a problem for people and they are playing Rev, they have chosen the wrong class to play.

>

> I see no problem with relying on allies for an effect you might not have; no one should; it's not a unique problem to Revenant. It's how every class works, which is why it's so strange people would think it's unreasonable to do so.

 

But this doesn't apply to swiftness.....all you need is the rapid flow trait from Invo and a weapon skill with a low cd to spam (like sword 2 or any of the mace skills). That's it, spam mace outside of combat for swiftness. If you want longer duration swiftness, use Inspiring Reinforcement from Dwarf with mace 3.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"Jack Skywalker.5674" said:

> But this doesn't apply to swiftness.....all you need is the rapid flow trait from Invo and a weapon skill with a low cd to spam (like sword 2 or any of the mace skills). That's it, spam mace outside of combat for swiftness. If you want longer duration swiftness, use Inspiring Reinforcement from Dwarf with mace 3.

 

Yes but do keep in mind that this was changed only recently, essentially to avoid the overreliance on Glint to run faster.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > You always can rely on allies for swiftness.

> >

> > In my opinion. No class should be THIS reliant on allies just to be able to not move like a snail. Of course not all classes should have the exact same access to leaps, teleports, swiftness and such but Revenant outside of Herald is insanely too slow.

>

> You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

 

Why would you play Herald in open world just for the movement perspective? Like, if you feel like you like Herald better, or really want/need Facet of Light, or wanna play Herald for the lore, or whatever... Cool, knock yourself out. But everyone saying Renegade is sooo slow and you have to take Herald/Shiro for the movement is making me lose my mind... It's like the entire community forgot about mounts? You don't need to use Rapid Flow, or clunkily blast your dwarf fields for swiftness when you can just use your mount. And if you mean being slow while in combat, Unyielding Anguish, Mace 3, and Axe 4 have never failed to close the gaps on open world AI trash for me.

[BlazeQ.1095]

> @"Spicy.2481" said:

> All these complaints about movement issues sound more like l2p-issues, rev is one of the fastest classes to move on foot if used right.

 

Agree'd, Trait Rapid flow in the invocation line, use Unyealing anguish, and have 100% swiftness up-time OOC + a 600 Leap every 5 seconds.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

 

> It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that.

 

That would be fine, except the Legends are poorly designed. Take Mal for example the supposed Condition Legend that cant remove conditions, can BARELY handle conditions. This goes for All Legends (Except Glint which is just over tuned) While they offer something. Its not enough. Using Mal doesnt help against conditions because its poorly designed, using Shiro is OKAY at mobility, but thats it. Okay. Yeah it has a leap every 5 seconds, some Superspeed and such but its not really enough to say its GOOD at them. That goes for all the legends. They are OKAY at something. But not good at anything.

 

I have 1,200 range Immobs. I have pretty much perma Swiftness, as well as a reasonable amount of movement abilities. A Revenant would ahve to burst through a HUGE amount of Energy to stand a chance at getting away and if they dont get away, well they have wasted all their energy and have nothing left except legend swap.

 

I wouldnt mind needing a specific legend if i wanted something, the thing is - i would want it to be GOOD at that something, not either REALLY bad or just okay. That is the issue.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> > It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that.

>

> That would be fine, except the Legends are poorly designed. Take Mal for example the supposed Condition Legend that cant remove conditions, can BARELY handle conditions. This goes for All Legends (Except Glint which is just over tuned) While they offer something. Its not enough. Using Mal doesnt help against conditions because its poorly designed, using Shiro is OKAY at mobility, but thats it. Okay. Yeah it has a leap every 5 seconds, some Superspeed and such but its not really enough to say its GOOD at them. That goes for all the legends. They are OKAY at something. But not good at anything.

>

> I have 1,200 range Immobs. I have pretty much perma Swiftness, as well as a reasonable amount of movement abilities. A Revenant would ahve to burst through a HUGE amount of Energy to stand a chance at getting away and if they dont get away, well they have wasted all their energy and have nothing left except legend swap.

>

> I wouldnt mind needing a specific legend if i wanted something, the thing is - i would want it to be GOOD at that something, not either REALLY bad or just okay. That is the issue.

>

 

That may be the case, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you that mostly anything you want on this class is going to be attached to a legend. That's how it's designed.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > > It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that.

> >

> > That would be fine, except the Legends are poorly designed. Take Mal for example the supposed Condition Legend that cant remove conditions, can BARELY handle conditions. This goes for All Legends (Except Glint which is just over tuned) While they offer something. Its not enough. Using Mal doesnt help against conditions because its poorly designed, using Shiro is OKAY at mobility, but thats it. Okay. Yeah it has a leap every 5 seconds, some Superspeed and such but its not really enough to say its GOOD at them. That goes for all the legends. They are OKAY at something. But not good at anything.

> >

> > I have 1,200 range Immobs. I have pretty much perma Swiftness, as well as a reasonable amount of movement abilities. A Revenant would ahve to burst through a HUGE amount of Energy to stand a chance at getting away and if they dont get away, well they have wasted all their energy and have nothing left except legend swap.

> >

> > I wouldnt mind needing a specific legend if i wanted something, the thing is - i would want it to be GOOD at that something, not either REALLY bad or just okay. That is the issue.

> >

>

> That may be the case, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you that mostly anything you want on this class is going to be attached to a legend. That's how it's designed.

 

For this meta what hurts Revenant is the fact that our 2 means of managing are horrible when compared to everything else....it's either Ventari 0 heal power to spam the condi cleanse or Malyx whose base concept is outdated (holding condis so you can spread them via a bad GM trait).

[Lavyros.6258]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> > > > You always can rely on allies for swiftness.

> > >

> > > In my opinion. No class should be THIS reliant on allies just to be able to not move like a snail. Of course not all classes should have the exact same access to leaps, teleports, swiftness and such but Revenant outside of Herald is insanely too slow.

> >

> > You are not relying on swiftness from allies, but if u want max dps, u'll have to, like most of the classes. Plus you have Rapid Flow, 5s swiftness on 5s cd, when u use skill that spends energy. And renegade isn's slow, Shiro is base rev, you can always take it. Still I don't know why ppl who have problems with renegade speed play it, why not stay on herald, is it the bow? I play renegade cause it has nice dps, and speed isn't a problem in group content. But in open world power is better, herald is better from movement perspective, why not stick to it?

>

> Why would you play Herald in open world just for the movement perspective? Like, if you feel like you like Herald better, or really want/need Facet of Light, or wanna play Herald for the lore, or whatever... Cool, knock yourself out. But everyone saying Renegade is sooo slow and you have to take Herald/Shiro for the movement is making me lose my mind... It's like the entire community forgot about mounts? You don't need to use Rapid Flow, or clunkily blast your dwarf fields for swiftness when you can just use your mount. And if you mean being slow while in combat, Unyielding Anguish, Mace 3, and Axe 4 have never failed to close the gaps on open world AI trash for me.

 

Not for speed, for all together another build, it's just better for solo play. Plus it's power, condi has build up and open world mobs have small hp pools.

[Lavyros.6258]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> > It's still amazing how unwilling people are to recognize that fixed skills/effects to a legend IS the concept of the class. Anyone playing Rev at this point should know that if you want something specific, you are VERY likely going to have to use a specific legend to get that.

>

> That would be fine, except the Legends are poorly designed. Take Mal for example the supposed Condition Legend that cant remove conditions, can BARELY handle conditions. This goes for All Legends (Except Glint which is just over tuned) While they offer something. Its not enough. Using Mal doesnt help against conditions because its poorly designed, using Shiro is OKAY at mobility, but thats it. Okay. Yeah it has a leap every 5 seconds, some Superspeed and such but its not really enough to say its GOOD at them. That goes for all the legends. They are OKAY at something. But not good at anything.

>

> I have 1,200 range Immobs. I have pretty much perma Swiftness, as well as a reasonable amount of movement abilities. A Revenant would ahve to burst through a HUGE amount of Energy to stand a chance at getting away and if they dont get away, well they have wasted all their energy and have nothing left except legend swap.

>

> I wouldnt mind needing a specific legend if i wanted something, the thing is - i would want it to be GOOD at that something, not either REALLY bad or just okay. That is the issue.

>

 

Malyx is actually great to deal with conditions, cause unlike other classes that remove 1 or 2 condies, you ignore all of them. Plust it has no cd, so you can stuck that buff. Plus, being a rev, you don't change your build for specific encounter, you just change your rotation slightly. And you can take trait that applies torment, when u gain resistance, so you can do condi damage while you ignoring condi damage. Revenant is amazing in pve atm.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> That may be the case, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you that mostly anything you want on this class is going to be attached to a legend. That's how it's designed.

 

Again. The issue ISN'T that its attached to a Legend. It is that they are just really poor. When you compare it to other classes that DONT have such limitations on them.

 

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> Not for speed, for all together another build, it's just better for solo play. Plus it's power, condi has build up and open world mobs have small hp pools.

 

The problem is. There are MANY classes and builds that do the all in 1 thing better. With Power, Condi, support and everything. Revenant is just rather poorly designed if it was meant to be an all in 1 sort of thing, they did such a DREADFUL job doing it :/

 

> @"Lavyros.6258" said:

> Malyx is actually great to deal with conditions, cause unlike other classes that remove 1 or 2 condies, you ignore all of them. Plust it has no cd, so you can stuck that buff. Plus, being a rev, you don't change your build for specific encounter, you just change your rotation slightly. And you can take trait that applies torment, when u gain resistance, so you can do condi damage while you ignoring condi damage. Revenant is amazing in pve atm.

 

The problem is. You can only ignore them for a limited amount of time. Removing them is SO much better and remember all the boon hate? Removals and corruption. It makes Resistance on Revenant kinda pointless. There are many ways it could be improved. Anet wont do any of them now because it would require them doing something. Also, it does have a cool down. You cant just have it up all the time. Pain Absorption SUCKS useless in solo gameplay. The trait is bad as its 2second up, 3second down. The longer you have duration the more chance at it being removed or corrupted.

 

Good in PvE. Not so good in WvW or PvP :(