Why ruin Strength line?

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

I just feel really bad about the changes made here. It's horrible. You destroyed this spec and now Core isn't really viable for PvP. The new stick and move is just really terrible, and might makes right is just worthless. Meh. RIP Core.

[choovanski.5462]

good question. no idea why they had to gut the line

[Sol.6213]

Boons get stripped so fast that adding more effects to a boon is useless. Might as well have just not added anything at all.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

10% damage buff just gone... 5 endurance per might down to just 2!!!! JESUS FREAKING CHRIST GUYS. WTF.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

Honestly it was kind of needed, but meh. The endurance regen on might makes right was crazy.

[Ferus.3165]

Honestly this change was not needed. Every warrior taking str line was already taking a huge sacrifice because you had to drop sb, disc or def line. The new reckless dodge trait ist just useless, and the new stick and move trait is far worse in all gamemodes than it was before. Even in raids and fractals (where noone is gonna accept a power warrior) where you have permanent 25 stacks of might the extra 250 power is far less than the permanent 10% multiplicative buff. And in all other modes as well as open world you will barely ever get 25 stacks of might outside of a premade group and if you do it will only last for a few seconds (e.g. hundred blades on multible enemies).

 

--> Power (core) warrior got nerfed hard for open world and pvp/wvw and got slightly nerfed for fractals and raids (lol). No compensation whatsoever.

[ButterPeanut.9746]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> Honestly this change was not needed. Every warrior taking str line was already taking a huge sacrifice because you had to drop sb, disc or def line. The new reckless dodge trait ist just useless, and the new stick and move trait is far worse in all gamemodes than it was before. Even in raids and fractals (where noone is gonna accept a power warrior) where you have permanent 25 stacks of might the extra 250 power is far less than the permanent 10% multiplicative buff. And in all other modes as well as open world you will barely ever get 25 stacks of might outside of a premade group and if you do it will only last for a few seconds (e.g. hundred blades on multible enemies).

>

> --> Power (core) warrior got nerfed hard for open world and pvp/wvw and got slightly nerfed for fractals and raids (lol). No compensation whatsoever.

 

I was talking more about the might makes right changes. You have classes like daredevil who are built around having extra evades yet strength warrior easily had more evade frames than it. The endurance gain on MrM was a bit too high. Not sure if 5->2 is too much of a nerf but we'll see.

[Netheren.3261]

Still haven't made Arms the condi line. Nerfed the power line. Do they have any idea what they are doing with war?

 

My engi feels like they at least have an idea what to do with holo, even if the core class is broken so far beyond belief it makes core war look polished.

[Cerby.1069]

haha I get to play devil's advocate for once, cool.

 

I'm quite happy with the change after some fiddling. My main concern is that its bridging the gap between strength and scholar runes a bit too closely.....the damage output between the 2 at 100% hp is way toooo close.

 

Giving warrior damage more dependingn on might stacks....I mean its good and its bad. Its good cause even solo players will more easily approach the 25 stack of might cap that all group players automatically get access to just for playing with others. Its bad because.....well honestly maybe it isn't that bad at all.

 

Boonstripping is counter player and counterplay is a good thing, so my complaints are much fewer now I guess. My damage is wayyy up though in general for my build. Plus lesspeople are gonna be spamming dire/tb builds so EVERYTHING is actually possible to burst now. Less reliance of groups on boons like protection is also a big buff for my playstyle. I'm quite happy with how the changes have been made, its nothing amazing either so the hardcore warrior haters got very little to complain about.

 

One unfair issue though is the fact the strength line seems biased towards power users now. I mean we lost the 10% damage and replaced it with +10 power on might....I mean that's sort of equivalent? 10% damage was about 300 power......so were a bit of a nerf here and there, but its 100% uptime and we don't have to waste dodges now to get it....so its pretty fair. But it does look on the surface like the line is playing favourites with power users over condi users. ANd condi users who use strength line should be rewarded imo, they are giving up fast hands and maybe even defense line here....they are pro's and should be praised!

In reality though its the same as before, so there's no complaints to be found on my end atm I guess!!!

yayyyyy

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Cerby.1069" said:

> haha I get to play devil's advocate for once, cool.

>

> I'm quite happy with the change after some fiddling. My main concern is that its bridging the gap between strength and scholar runes a bit too closely.....the damage output between the 2 at 100% hp is way toooo close.

>

> Giving warrior damage more dependingn on might stacks....I mean its good and its bad. Its good cause even solo players will more easily approach the 25 stack of might cap that all group players automatically get access to just for playing with others. Its bad because.....well honestly maybe it isn't that bad at all.

>

> Boonstripping is counter player and counterplay is a good thing, so my complaints are much fewer now I guess. My damage is wayyy up though in general for my build. Plus lesspeople are gonna be spamming dire/tb builds so EVERYTHING is actually possible to burst now. Less reliance of groups on boons like protection is also a big buff for my playstyle. I'm quite happy with how the changes have been made, its nothing amazing either so the hardcore warrior haters got very little to complain about.

>

> One unfair issue though is the fact the strength line seems biased towards power users now. I mean we lost the 10% damage and replaced it with +10 power on might....I mean that's sort of equivalent? 10% damage was about 300 power......so were a bit of a nerf here and there, but its 100% uptime and we don't have to waste dodges now to get it....so its pretty fair. But it does look on the surface like the line is playing favourites with power users over condi users. ANd condi users who use strength line should be rewarded imo, they are giving up fast hands and maybe even defense line here....they are pro's and should be praised!

> In reality though its the same as before, so there's no complaints to be found on my end atm I guess!!!

> yayyyyy

 

 

the only weapons useful for condi and strength trait line are weapons with alot of cc. That's just hammer and mace and both of them scale far better with power than with condi. And how in the heck is bonus dmg of strength runes equal to scholar runes????? And the 250 power (which you only get with 25 stacks might and not just by dodging once) are a lesser dmg boost than the previous 10 % buff to the complete dmg output. And just because you did not like a mechanic is no reason to nerf it (lol).

[ButterPeanut.9746]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Cerby.1069" said:

> > haha I get to play devil's advocate for once, cool.

> >

> > I'm quite happy with the change after some fiddling. My main concern is that its bridging the gap between strength and scholar runes a bit too closely.....the damage output between the 2 at 100% hp is way toooo close.

> >

> > Giving warrior damage more dependingn on might stacks....I mean its good and its bad. Its good cause even solo players will more easily approach the 25 stack of might cap that all group players automatically get access to just for playing with others. Its bad because.....well honestly maybe it isn't that bad at all.

> >

> > Boonstripping is counter player and counterplay is a good thing, so my complaints are much fewer now I guess. My damage is wayyy up though in general for my build. Plus lesspeople are gonna be spamming dire/tb builds so EVERYTHING is actually possible to burst now. Less reliance of groups on boons like protection is also a big buff for my playstyle. I'm quite happy with how the changes have been made, its nothing amazing either so the hardcore warrior haters got very little to complain about.

> >

> > One unfair issue though is the fact the strength line seems biased towards power users now. I mean we lost the 10% damage and replaced it with +10 power on might....I mean that's sort of equivalent? 10% damage was about 300 power......so were a bit of a nerf here and there, but its 100% uptime and we don't have to waste dodges now to get it....so its pretty fair. But it does look on the surface like the line is playing favourites with power users over condi users. ANd condi users who use strength line should be rewarded imo, they are giving up fast hands and maybe even defense line here....they are pro's and should be praised!

> > In reality though its the same as before, so there's no complaints to be found on my end atm I guess!!!

> > yayyyyy

>

>

> the only weapons useful for condi and strength trait line are weapons with alot of cc. That's just hammer and mace and both of them scale far better with power than with condi. And how in the heck is bonus dmg of strength runes equal to scholar runes????? And the 250 power (which you only get with 25 stacks might and not just by dodging once) are a lesser dmg boost than the previous 10 % buff to the complete dmg output. And just because you did not like a mechanic is no reason to nerf it (lol).

 

Honestly the stick and move trait was pretty counter intuitive, especially for berserker and in particular in PvE. Having burst skills give endurance back and having a trait that gives the 10% modifier around not having full endurance was pretty bad. Remember balance wise this may not be 100% complete, it could get touched again in the near future, but mechanically removing the stick and move endurance mechanic was good IMO.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"ButterPeanut.9746" said:

> Remember balance wise this may not be 100% complete, it could get touched again in the near future, but mechanically removing the stick and move endurance mechanic was good IMO.

 

I hope you are right. It's just a slab in the face when power warrior is already underpowered and still gets nerfed, while strong classes like mirage don't even get their condis shifted, so the condi dmg is not equal to a power burst, but instead get buffed even further.

[kiranslee.4829]

Guys its quite simple, core vas viable. It was viable without hot/pof.

[Mikeskies.1536]

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> I just feel really bad about the changes made here. It's horrible. You destroyed this spec and now Core isn't really viable for PvP. The new stick and move is just really terrible, and might makes right is just worthless. Meh. RIP Core.

 

New Stick and Move is equivalent damage wise, more or less. The real issue is the Might Makes Right nerf. The extra might generation from Reckless Dodge does not make up for the endurance drop from 5 to 2.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Mikeskies.1536" said:

> > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > I just feel really bad about the changes made here. It's horrible. You destroyed this spec and now Core isn't really viable for PvP. The new stick and move is just really terrible, and might makes right is just worthless. Meh. RIP Core.

>

> New Stick and Move is equivalent damage wise, more or less. The real issue is the Might Makes Right nerf. The extra might generation from Reckless Dodge does not make up for the endurance drop from 5 to 2.

 

So ... what kind of might generation DOES make up from endurance drop from 5 to 2? How does one even correlate those things?

 

I was on the fence with the change, but then I realized it's nice to have many ways to regenerate small stacks of might than it is to have fewer ways to generate larger ones; it doesn't lock you into a specific trait/skill/traitline/etc... to get might, which is admittedly ... a good thing for the class in general. It also gives you a more sustainable level of might you can maintain without religious adherence to a rotation. It's also inline with Anet's approach to spread out, as we seen with last patch changes as well.

 

 

[Little Howl.5231]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> Guys its quite simple, core vas viable. It was viable without hot/pof.

 

That's correct. The same thing happened with the adjustments to the Berserker spec prior to PoF.

Why purchase content when the free core spec when played well,is in many ways stronger than both Berserker and Spellbreaker ? $$$ Will always be an influencing factor in balancing decisions.

[gmmg.9210]

Honestly had to stop playing it was so bad. I loved core before it was core, now the "buff" to the stacks of might barely scrapes enough damage together to the point where I preferred Stick and Move. Stick and Move! You know, the one that was a terrible awkward minor trait that at least gave us 10% damage **sometimes**. MMR is gutted, which is a shame because it was the only thing core warrior had going for it. But no, had to take that away while "nerfing" condi's (even though condi spam is just as bad and they didn't address the real issues with it).

[Ahlen.7591]

I dunno, I think it's amazing - pve player.

[Cerby.1069]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Cerby.1069" said:

> > haha I get to play devil's advocate for once, cool.

> >

> > I'm quite happy with the change after some fiddling. My main concern is that its bridging the gap between strength and scholar runes a bit too closely.....the damage output between the 2 at 100% hp is way toooo close.

> >

> > Giving warrior damage more dependingn on might stacks....I mean its good and its bad. Its good cause even solo players will more easily approach the 25 stack of might cap that all group players automatically get access to just for playing with others. Its bad because.....well honestly maybe it isn't that bad at all.

> >

> > Boonstripping is counter player and counterplay is a good thing, so my complaints are much fewer now I guess. My damage is wayyy up though in general for my build. Plus lesspeople are gonna be spamming dire/tb builds so EVERYTHING is actually possible to burst now. Less reliance of groups on boons like protection is also a big buff for my playstyle. I'm quite happy with how the changes have been made, its nothing amazing either so the hardcore warrior haters got very little to complain about.

> >

> > One unfair issue though is the fact the strength line seems biased towards power users now. I mean we lost the 10% damage and replaced it with +10 power on might....I mean that's sort of equivalent? 10% damage was about 300 power......so were a bit of a nerf here and there, but its 100% uptime and we don't have to waste dodges now to get it....so its pretty fair. But it does look on the surface like the line is playing favourites with power users over condi users. ANd condi users who use strength line should be rewarded imo, they are giving up fast hands and maybe even defense line here....they are pro's and should be praised!

> > In reality though its the same as before, so there's no complaints to be found on my end atm I guess!!!

> > yayyyyy

>

>

> the only weapons useful for condi and strength trait line are weapons with alot of cc. That's just hammer and mace and both of them scale far better with power than with condi. And how in the heck is bonus dmg of strength runes equal to scholar runes????? And the 250 power (which you only get with 25 stacks might and not just by dodging once) are a lesser dmg boost than the previous 10 % buff to the complete dmg output. And just because you did not like a mechanic is no reason to nerf it (lol).

 

alright son, time to play ball I guess.

 

1. There have been plenty of viable pvp builds, meta ones infact, that use strength line with stuff like sword/torch mace/shield. I mean all warriors have alot of cc...lol.

2. if you factor might uptime you can get similar output overall. I mean we can all agree if u lose the +10% dmg bonus on scholar, you fall way below strength rune damage yes? That means the only real difference is that 10%. 10% is equal to about 300 power (THAT INCLUDES THE FACT % MODIFIERS ARE MULTIPLICATIVE).....use ur head to figure out scenarios where might uptime and the addition of new sources of might.... 'might' close that gap dangerously close.

3. I didn't type 250 power anywhere in my post......I mean did you even read what I wrote? lol.

4. "And just because you did not like a mechanic is no reason to nerf it (lol)." ....ya I think you are just plain talking to urself.

 

GOOOD TALK! Game set and match, you lose.

[Blargo the Great.6704]

I honestly don’t know what the problem is. This just made power warr viable in pve (I was hitting 32k dps consistently) and is a tiny dps decrease in wvw/pvp. And now you generate might from dodge roll hits. I see nothing wrong with any of these changes as an avid wvw player who plays some pve on the side.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

dodge gives might => might gives endurance => endurance => dodge => might => .....

the more you dodge the more might you get the more dodges you get the more might you get...... i like it

[Blargo the Great.6704]

I think people are greatly underestimating how much might the dodgeroll gives now and how it interacts with might makes right

[Vaga.5174]

We have so many way to generate might that the nerf to might makes right was necessary (the amount of dodges available was nutty, fun while it lasted, but nutty).

 

The trait needed to be toned down - They have not only toned it down but have also granted us yet another way to generate might, by dodging (which ALSO potentially heals us a little now) - it is a fair nerf. We also have so many ways to increase our endurance refill rate, be it signet of stamina, the last stand trait for vigor, sigils, weapons swaps and bursts that its not a huge deal.

 

Remember this trait never used to even exist, we were viable before it, we are viable now.

 

The stick and move trait was just to fall in line with the updates they did ages ago, which was removing the need to waste dodges to gain a flat buff. As i said, we have so many ways to sustain 15+ stacks of might we will barely notice the difference in damage. We also get at least 1 stack of might from hitting each dodge now, so dodging is like adding at least +35+10 power.

 

Strength line is not ruined. Just give it a chance.

[ADTempys.6382]

250 power is nowhere near +10% damages, would be better if they did something like +0.5% damages for each stack of might or something like this , such as mesmer has in domination but with vulnerability

[Vaga.5174]

0.5% would equate to 12.5% at 25 stacks of might... which is a buff we don't need. We have had so many damage buffs recently i cant see how losing a little damage is really that bad.