[Discussion] Players and the gemstore

[Lipzipper.3160]

I think I realized something today that made me really sad. Do players really hold the gemstore up as valid content, along with fractals and raids?

 

I got into a discussion today also, where the person threw my regard on the gemstore as a trivial minigame, extra, money on the side for arenanet off, because as claimed "Gemstore items give players joy" u spend and you feel *joy*. This is the definition of a fix, its addiction. If the playerbase truly feels more accomplished and successful in guild wars 2 everytime they buy a mount skin, or maybe an outfit, then i fear for the future.

 

Its very important to remember that the gemstore is nothing but a sidenote to the game, its not part of it.

Where is the sense of pride? accomplishment? mastery?

 

(If you wondered, I am not against the gemstore, more money for arenanet equals a better quality game. If you asked me what I want however, I'd say a subscription imo.)

[Danikat.8537]

I don't think any of your descriptions fit how I see the gem store. It is, as the name implies, a store.

 

Think of it like this - GW2 is a theme park. All of the different game modes, mini games, story, etc. are the rides and attractions. The gem store is the gift shop. The fact that it's in the theme park doesn't make it a ride or put it on the same 'level' as the actual attractions, but it's not totally separate either, and if your friend is really happy about the random novelty t-shirt they bought there it's not somehow wrong because they're happy about a purchase and not a ride, it's just different.

 

So no. It's not content, or a mini game. But that doesn't mean you can't feel happy about finding an item in the gem store you like and want to use and it absolutely doesn't make it an addiction. Making someone happy can be one of the factors that leads to someone being addicted to it (and yes that does mean anything can be addictive, I know a guy got addicted to jogging, to the point where he needed professional help to deal with it, but in his case there's a lot of underlying issues) but it's no where near as simple as if you're happy then you're addicted.

 

But there's also a big difference between feeling joy and feeling a sense of accomplishment. They may feel similar, but they're not the same thing at all. Seeing a nice sunset makes me feel joy, but it'd be absurd to say I feel accomplished or proud of seeing it.

[Lipzipper.3160]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I don't think any of your descriptions fit how I see the gem store. It is, as the name implies, a store.

>

> Think of it like this - GW2 is a theme park. All of the different game modes, mini games, story, etc. are the rides and attractions. The gem store is the gift shop. The fact that it's in the theme park doesn't make it a ride or put it on the same 'level' as the actual attractions, but it's not totally separate either, and if your friend is really happy about the random novelty t-shirt they bought there it's not somehow wrong because they're happy about a purchase and not a ride, it's just different.

>

> So no. It's not content, or a mini game. But that doesn't mean you can't feel happy about finding an item in the gem store you like and want to use and it absolutely doesn't make it an addiction. Making someone happy can be one of the factors that leads to someone being addicted to it (and yes that does mean anything can be addictive, I know a guy got addicted to jogging, to the point where he needed professional help to deal with it, but in his case there's a lot of underlying issues) but it's no where near as simple as if you're happy then you're addicted.

>

> But there's also a big difference between feeling joy and feeling a sense of accomplishment. They may feel similar, but they're not the same thing at all. Seeing a nice sunset makes me feel joy, but it'd be absurd to say I feel accomplished or proud of seeing it.

 

I enjoy your analogy and I truly wish I am wrong. I dont think your experience as of a sunset is comparable though, its not matter, buying something on the gemstore and viewing your character and feeling *joy*? Maybe its the word joy I take issue with, trivializing something like joy to the level of feeling it everytime you buy a bottle of coke is a perversion of the word. What I have witnessed these last weeks in relation to f. ex the mount controversy is frightening. Did you notice how loud that was? It was quite toxic imh. Meanwhile gamerelated issues are treated "meh". It's whats happening, and what I witnessed today as it was revealed that alot of people have been anxuiously waiting for the new gemstore items etc, more so than the new fractal which was amazing, you could really see the quality and care the team put into it compared to the other ones. The way some rethoric has been used, mountskins come across as *progression*. It doesnt seem optional, it seems mandatory.

[kurfu.5623]

People like to buy things that make them happy, and I'm sure many also enjoy the fact that they are supporting the game at the same time.

[seinka.4823]

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> buying something on the gemstore and viewing your character and feeling *joy*?

That's called _aesthetics_. Some people truly _do_ enjoy looking at visually pleasant things. And some don't. It's the same as with food - some people see it only as needed energy, others savour every bite and try to find the best combination of spices. There's nothing wrong with either. It would be boring, if everyone liked the same things.

 

[Lipzipper.3160]

> @"kurfu.5623" said:

> People like to buy things that make them happy, and I'm sure many also enjoy the fact that they are supporting the game at the same time.

 

I have bought many things off the gemstore with that same mindset. I try to do everything for the good of the game, being that support via gemstore, guiding new players through dungeons or as now opening up discussions to make people think about the game.

 

My concern is how the mindset of the gemstore being "content" seems to become more and more common. Its a one way ticket, players get what players want. And more attention and care to the gemstore is not what this game needs. People literally get angry with arenanet for what is in the gemstore, its proposterous, as if the gemstore ever was to please the players need for new content.

 

Again I draw back to the mount controversy, people appreciate or hate the mountgambling more than they cared about the implementation of mounts in the first place.

 

The sin might be a bit on arenanets side as well when i think about it. Gemstore skins in the wardrobe f. ex, it doesnt really signify the separation. The Dhuum skins will always be more valuable than Foefires f. ex.

 

On a more positive note I think something major has changed at arenanet. The focus seem to be less on being unique and more about what works. After many trials and errors from the personal story to ls2, they fell back on raids, tanks, healers, and at last mounts. All are well established content in the genre and i salute the developers for making it their own.

[FANY.6524]

I like buying stuff on the gemstore, and I do it often. It does make me happy to get the items I want, especially since most of the time I am working hard to earn enough gold to convert to gems. As for buying stuff with real money, most of us who have purchased gems with real money did it through hard work too - via a job. It's still an accomplishment no matter how you look at it.

 

Don't know about you, but sometimes being able to afford leisure items is enough for some people. Everyone gets that sense of pride, accomplishment, or mastery in their own way.

[Lipzipper.3160]

> @"FANY.6524" said:

> I like buying stuff on the gemstore, and I do it often. It does make me happy to get the items I want, especially since most of the time I am working hard to earn enough gold to convert to gems. As for buying stuff with real money, most of us who have purchased gems with real money did it through hard work too - via a job. It's still an accomplishment no matter how you look at it.

>

> Don't know about you, but sometimes being able to afford leisure items is enough for some people. Everyone gets that sense of pride, accomplishment, or mastery in their own way.

 

Still the issue is not the gemstore, or the fact that people buy things of it. Its the idea that the gemstore is equal to in-game content. Things you do in-game. And again, it does not make you happy, and I dont say that to tell you how you feel, but it is a misuse of the word. If true happiness were as simple as buying a new skin on the gemstore the world would be a very different place. Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

 

I dont care what and if you buy gemstore items, I care if you tell me its prestigious in any way. Gemstore items are also really cheap, if you make about 10 euro an hour you will be able to buy all the wintersday mountskins with 2 hours of committment. Time is valuable, 8 hour of your life playing gw2 is just as valuable as 8 hours at work. Your time is immensely valuable, no matter what you do.

 

I believe there is a rise of a unhealthy interest in the gemstore, unhealthy for the game and the players. What part is best; getting the right gryphon skin, or unlocking the gryphon as a mount?

[FANY.6524]

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > @"FANY.6524" said:

> > I like buying stuff on the gemstore, and I do it often. It does make me happy to get the items I want, especially since most of the time I am working hard to earn enough gold to convert to gems. As for buying stuff with real money, most of us who have purchased gems with real money did it through hard work too - via a job. It's still an accomplishment no matter how you look at it.

> >

> > Don't know about you, but sometimes being able to afford leisure items is enough for some people. Everyone gets that sense of pride, accomplishment, or mastery in their own way.

>

> Still the issue is not the gemstore, or the fact that people buy things of it. Its the idea that the gemstore is equal to in-game content. Things you do in-game. And again, it does not make you happy, and I dont say that to tell you how you feel, but it is a misuse of the word. If true happiness were as simple as buying a new skin on the gemstore the world would be a very different place. Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

>

> I dont care what and if you buy gemstore items, I care if you tell me its prestigious in any way. Gemstore items are also really cheap, if you make about 10 euro an hour you will be able to buy all the wintersday mountskins with 2 hours of committment. Time is valuable, 8 hour of your life playing gw2 is just as valuable as 8 hours at work. Your time is immensely valuable, no matter what you do.

>

> I believe there is a rise of a unhealthy interest in the gemstore, unhealthy for the game and the players. What part is best; getting the right gryphon skin, or unlocking the gryphon as a mount?

 

LOL. "And again, it does not make you happy, and I dont say that to tell you how you feel, but it is a misuse of the word." No, it is not a misuse of the word. Things can make you happy. Obtaining things you want can make you happy. Saying that getting these gem store items makes me happy is not a misuse of the word. The definition of happy is "feeling or showing pleasure or contentment" which literally makes it the appropriate use of the word.

 

I'm not going to tell you that these items are prestigious. Legendary armor is prestigious in my eyes, but not gem store items.

 

**"What part is best; getting the right gryphon skin, or unlocking the gryphon as a mount?"**

The answers to these questions will be different for many people. Some people literally have no problem unlocking the gryphon and don't even think it requires much skill. The amount of time I'd spend farming for gold would be much greater and tedious than getting the gryphon. I actually don't care for the gryphon, so I'd find more enjoyment out of making the ugly thing look good.

 

However, I don't think the gem store is becoming a problem. GW2 needs money, so they make gem store stuff. Should they make types of items gem store exclusive? I don't really think so. I'd like to be able to unlock outfits and mount skins via achievements personally, but - again - it's not like I can't grind in other ways to get them.

[Taygus.4571]

"pride? accomplishment? mastery?"

 

I don't play a game for these things. ..that's what real life is for.

 

I play for the story, for the immersive world, for exploration, for silliness.

 

Gem store items..paticularly skins..bring joy because they're pretty to look at while you play the game.

 

And as the gemstore funds the game, It's not a side note..It's actually quite an important aspect...but of course buying on the gemstore isn't "playing".

 

It's more akin to dying you're hair in real life.

 

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

I like the giftshop analogy of the gemstore but I see it as an arcade. You spend money to get a bunch of tickets and you exchange those ticket for silly items.

[RebelliousChyld.6427]

I enjoy the Gem Store.

 

I enjoy treating myself and others.

 

So in turn... I find -joy- in the gemstore, because of the _enjoyment_ it brings.

 

Isn't that what games are meant to do?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Gee, ever heard of 'retail therapy'?

Shopping makes me very happy!

[DearlyMe.5320]

I find it hard to take this seriously reading through everything. People find joy in different things. Calling it the making of an addiction is ridiculous. Let people enjoy their pretty things.

[Chillor.9415]

I understand the gem store but I believe a turnoff is that inventory and bank slots are locked behind them! And no I don't find anything enjoyable about that!

[notebene.3190]

I buy things on the gem store.

You are confused by my willingness to spend in the gem store.

Your confusion brings me joy.

I am now content.

:#

[Chadramar.8156]

I don't like it, though of course I see its necessity (minus lootboxes or similar BS!) in a subscription-free game. My problem with it is mainly that I simply don't feel any "satisfaction" from forking over cash for something. It feels so more "meaningful" to get a skin or a mini or whatever from doing something in-game that is in some way related to that particular item. Paying in-game money or some other in-game currency isn't "satisfying" either, but it's still a bit better than the real money route. This is in no small part why I feel that the griffon collection and the Caladbolg side story are among the better bits of content they've released: there's a story to both, it takes some effort but isn't stupendously expensive or difficult or time-consuming, and overall it just feels like the reward you get is in some meaningful way a part of the world. I like the (original) mini-Aurene for much of the same reason though it was a much shorter process: you do something for her, you get a mini of her. Whereas the new one leaves me kinda cold because you just buy it, though I appreciate that it is in-game rather than a gemstore thing. Unless a bought thing is an absolutely perfect fit for a character's looks and "theme", it's hard to impossible for me to get excited for or attached to it.

 

Plus, there's the fact that the gender-split of armors and outfits immediately kills my potential interest in 99% of all skins anyway.

 

So my purchases to support the game post-launch have mostly been of the QoL variety, with the exception of one glider that I felt most "connected" to (the crystal dragon wings, because I like Glint and the egg/Aurene), plus the most expensive versions of both expansions.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Well, look at it this way.

When you're skilful and masterful in the game, how are you rewarded? With skins.

What does the Gemstore sell? Skins, often flashier ones than the ones you earn with skill and mastery.

So, yeah the game tells you that looking good is akin to being good, which then stands to reason that A LOT of people see the gemstore, or at least skins, and looking good as a part of the end-game. It's not for nothing that the game earned the moniker of "Fashionwars".

While in your "tale" there's a small whiff of the other guy having an addictive personality, which are usually the main targets of micro-transactions (and casinos).

The way Arena Net channel their assets into producing stuff for the gemstore, even stuff that kind of hints to having been made with the intent of being an ingame reward sometimes end up in the gemstore, is what creates this feeling of accomplishment from having a cool outfit, even when you actually didn't accomplish nothing.

 

Sadly, and not in a small part because there's very little in-game in terms of actual prestige stuff, the gemstore has grown into the best way to "win the fashionwar".

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Spending money now and then on a gem store item is not an addiction. Such behavior could become addiction if the player cannot stop. An example would be someone who gets addicted to the serotonin high from gambling with BL Keys to their detriment. Someone who enjoys getting a cosmetic shiny? Nope, not an addiction as long as they can afford it and can stop.

 

If anyone is addicted to anything in an MMO, it's players who spend more time playing one game than they do all other enjoyment activities combined, or worse, those who spend more time playing than either working or sleeping. Not that I have anything against people who do that. If that's the way they derive enjoyment, then more power to them.

 

As to mastery or accomplishment... If I were better at PvP, I might feel that I had mastered or accomplished something by skillfully winning fights against other players. As to PvE, I see little mastery or accomplishment in beating content that is _designed to be beaten_.

[juhani.5361]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> "pride? accomplishment? mastery?"

>

> I don't play a game for these things. ..that's what real life is for.

>

> I play for the story, for the immersive world, for exploration, for silliness.

>

> Gem store items..paticularly skins..bring joy because they're pretty to look at while you play the game.

>

> And as the gemstore funds the game, It's not a side note..It's actually quite an important aspect...but of course buying on the gemstore isn't "playing".

>

> It's more akin to dying you're hair in real life.

>

 

Thank you for saying this! My way of expressing the same sentiment is _much_ more judgmental. I play games to have fun, to relax, to get immersed in a different world. I don't feel pride in downing things, or any real accomplishment or "mastery" in killing pixel creatures. If people have fun with or enjoy what they purchase from the gem store, more power to them!

 

That's the great thing about games like this-- you can find your happy is so many different ways!

[seinka.4823]

It appears you're combining things that have nothing to do with each other.

 

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> Still the issue is not the gemstore, or the fact that people buy things of it. Its the idea that the gemstore is equal to in-game content.

Buying things from gemstore doesn't mean it's equal to the in-game content.

 

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> Things you do in-game. And again, it does not make you happy, and I dont say that to tell you how you feel, but it is a misuse of the word. If true happiness were as simple as buying a new skin on the gemstore the world would be a very different place.

You're overthinking it. By shopping in gemstore, people are not looking for some sort of ultimate life-long happiness. And it's not like "they're happy, because they _buy_ those things", but more like "they're happy, because they can _have_ and _use_ those things". Buying is only way to get them.

 

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is related to your issue with gemstore.

[Lipzipper.3160]

> > @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

> I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is related to your issue with gemstore.

Its because people are claiming buying things of the gemstore makes them happy.

 

[AstralDusk.1670]

This sounds like a discussion that needs to be had between you and the other player you were speaking to. If your previous convo didn't end in a satisfactory way, no need to drag it into the forum sphere where nobody has a horse in your race. And there's certainly no need to project one random person's choice of words as a universal truth.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > > @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > > Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

> > I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is related to your issue with gemstore.

> Its because people are claiming buying things of the gemstore makes them happy.

>

 

It does. I don't feel bad when I can't get things. But its fun to have them..And having fun brings joy.

 

 

[seinka.4823]

> @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > > @"Lipzipper.3160" said:

> > > Most people dont even try to feel happy or joyful. Most people try hard to avoid feeling bad.

> > I'm sorry, I don't understand how this is related to your issue with gemstore.

> Its because people are claiming buying things of the gemstore makes them happy.

>

You got it wrong. People in general don't want to be happy **constantly**, because state of happiness is physically very demanding. But they **do** want to be happy **occasionally**, because although exhausting, being happy feels so damn good. ;)

Or is there something in your complaints I'm missing? If so, could you clarify it?