Lack of difficult content

[Davin Miler.2810]

Hi,

As a member of and commander in a community revolving around gw2 I have been dissapointed with the last few patches. The reason is the lack of difficult content in open world. Sure, you have fractals and raids, but those are for small groups. They are not something you can gather 50+ people for and do. And with the new Daybreak patch we did have the Palawadan meta, which is something that can be easily farmed and is not that difficult with a moderately big group (30-40 people). I would like to see big events like tequatl (before it was scaled down) come back into the game. Something like the dragon's stand meta, shorter, but still with the same level of difficulty.

 

[Davin Miler.2810]

Wow for some reason it turned disapointed into an emoji

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Davin Miler.2810" said:

> Hi,

> As a member of and commander in a community revolving around gw2 I have been dissapointed with the last few patches. The reason is the lack of difficult content in open world. Sure, you have fractals and raids, but those are for small groups. They are not something you can gather 50+ people for and do. And with the new Daybreak patch we did have the Palawadan meta, which is something that can be easily farmed and is not that difficult with a moderately big group (30-40 people). I would like to see big events like tequatl (before it was scaled down) come back into the game. Something like the dragon's stand meta, shorter, but still with the same level of difficulty.

>

 

Serpent's Ire, and the Istan Meta can not be done with a few people.

The reason it could be easily farmed is because people want to farm it so a ton do go into those maps which makes it seem easy.

 

You can say the same for Dragon's Stand. It seems easy, but only because people actually do it.

 

I can't really think of much "difficult content" in the open world as a whole. It's either a "need a ton of people and you usually will get that many unless you're on a dead map and it will never fail" or "on a dead map and will fail."

[Laila Lightness.8742]

First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

 

People been saying it since PoF and wishing "Make the Veterans in the hero points champions like HoT! It's too easy!"

 

Thankfully, Arenanet have not listened to them.

[Jukens.1693]

I'd like to see more epic, massive dragon minion events. Teq was so good for a time when it got revamped, now i rarely do it.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

>

> People been saying it since PoF and wishing "Make the Veterans in the hero points champions like HoT! It's too easy!"

>

> Thankfully, Arenanet have not listened to them.

 

Funny thing is I found I was able to solo quite a few of the HoT hero points on my guardian whereas I couldn't solo any of the PoF ones.

[Offair.2563]

Harder content you ask? You can make it more difficult by stop running in groups of 50 and go with 5 instead.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

> >

> > People been saying it since PoF and wishing "Make the Veterans in the hero points champions like HoT! It's too easy!"

> >

> > Thankfully, Arenanet have not listened to them.

>

> Funny thing is I found I was able to solo quite a few of the HoT hero points on my guardian whereas I couldn't solo any of the PoF ones.

 

I would think it's somewhat based on the kind of difficulty they're set at.

HoT seems to be a "Multiple enemies" situation where they can outnumber you and probably kill you quickly with brute force.

The right class/set up can beat them easily, like all the brink ones could be soloed and a good bit of them in Basin and a few in Depth.

 

PoF on the other hand plays the "I will blast you with many conditions and corruptions that you will probably lost track of where you are or where to go and just die from this" with the occasional, "A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES!" and you get some veterans and/or elites that's been wandering around wanting to join in on the fun. Maybe an Elite Sharke or Elite/Veteran Hydra or Sand Lion or a Forged raid party or whichever. Which in it's own way is more annoying/difficult due to bad luck situations.

Also doesn't help the aggro range in PoF is much wider than HoT.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

> > >

> > > People been saying it since PoF and wishing "Make the Veterans in the hero points champions like HoT! It's too easy!"

> > >

> > > Thankfully, Arenanet have not listened to them.

> >

> > Funny thing is I found I was able to solo quite a few of the HoT hero points on my guardian whereas I couldn't solo any of the PoF ones.

>

> I would think it's somewhat based on the kind of difficulty they're set at.

> HoT seems to be a "Multiple enemies" situation where they can outnumber you and probably kill you quickly with brute force.

> The right class/set up can beat them easily, like all the brink ones could be soloed and a good bit of them in Basin and a few in Depth.

>

> PoF on the other hand plays the "I will blast you with many conditions and corruptions that you will probably lost track of where you are or where to go and just die from this" with the occasional, "A NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHES!" and you get some veterans and/or elites that's been wandering around wanting to join in on the fun. Maybe an Elite Sharke or Elite/Veteran Hydra or Sand Lion or a Forged raid party or whichever. Which in it's own way is more annoying/difficult due to bad luck situations.

> Also doesn't help the aggro range in PoF is much wider than HoT.

 

Yeah, the random patrolling mobs were so annoying to deal with. The 1 that sticks out the most to me was the bottle hp in the crystal oasis. There were so many times where I was close to completing the challenge only to have a veteran hydra aggro me from 100 yards away and kill me. It was infuriating.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

 

Two kinda of people.

People happy with content, do not complain.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

>

> People been saying it since PoF and wishing "Make the Veterans in the hero points champions like HoT! It's too easy!"

>

> Thankfully, Arenanet have not listened to them.

 

Indeed pof veteran are a joke, but since the game is meant for casuals veteran is way better ( though maybe boring ).

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

 

Different people. Some people find the Personal Story too difficult and complain that it needs a group, other people play it naked (or keep the starter armour throughout) because otherwise they find it too easy.

 

But I think it's even harder to make challenging content for large groups. Some of the bosses in the Istan meta-events actually have interesting mechanics that need careful positioning or the right tactics to deal with and hit very hard if you're not careful. But I only know that because similar bosses appear in the story. During the event there's so many people around that it's easy to ignore it - you'll do enough damage through sheer numbers that you can burn them down quickly anyway and you'll be hit with multiple AoE heals, condition cleanses etc. on a regular basis so you don't need to worry so much if you're standing in an AoE attack. Not that you'd see it under all the people and effects anyway. And if you do die chances are you'll have no idea what hit you or why so there's not much you can do to learn from it.

 

They could do something like make the enemies invulnerable until their defiance bar is broken, so players have to focus on using the right kind of attacks at the right time, but then either enough people know what to do that it doesn't matter (and again a lot of the group can ignore it, they'll just know that sometimes the boss in invulnerable and sometimes it isn't) or they won't know what to do and then the challenge becomes getting everyone else to do the right thing. But arguing with other players doesn't make for fun gameplay.

[Mea.5491]

I disagree. Palawadan meta is quite hard considering the amount of people who die in one hit (not me, I'm Celestial). Anyway, video games don't have to be hard. If I want difficulty, I log off and play real life.

[Dashiva.6149]

Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the Marionette meta being decently difficult in Open World, mostly because it required some detailed coordination and not just being a zergfest. I hope they bring it back in some way or form.

 

The problem with Open World Bosses generally is that much of the difficulty disappears with large number of player and inconsequential death (players can WP and keep throwing their bodies in a short amount of time).

[mercury ranique.2170]

open world content will always come down on the numbers. It is why in almost all MMO's, the challenging content is set in instanced content.

Open world to me is the freedom to explore and roam the massive world. Not some boss where the real fight is about getting into the right map.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> First people says content is too hard then now its too easy cant people just decide

 

Or, it could just be different people with different opinions. The population of GW2 is not some collective organism with a hive mind that thinks unanimously either one way or another. There are individuals, with different viewpoints that will often contrast one another.

[Ameepa.6793]

> @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the Marionette meta being decently difficult in Open World, mostly because it required some detailed coordination and not just being a zergfest. I hope they bring it back in some way or form.

>

> The problem with Open World Bosses generally is that much of the difficulty disappears with large number of player and inconsequential death (players can WP and keep throwing their bodies in a short amount of time).

 

Do you also remember that the marionette was doable only for about three days after release just because of that difficulty? It was a repeating theme with all s1 releases. The most hardcore completed the achies in the first three days and stopped doing them after that, and then the difficulty was too high for the rest to complete them.

 

Which is what happens with too difficult content. Think for example Triple Wurms now and how restricted they are. You are not even allowed to join that without joining the communities organizing that. I'm not sure if that's a good thing either. Considerin for example how many people get to do the wurms daily versus how many get to do Istan meta daily.

 

 

[Torolan.5816]

Maybe my memory plays me a prank here, but I killed Marionette quite often after the first three days. People are not as braindead as some may think, and you did not need to be a rocket scientist to understand the concept of that event, people on my server explained widely and broadly how it was done. If you want proof of that, the silver waste event is a handicaped version of marionette and more often than not is successful, at least it was when I left SW. You also did not need a DpS build to score a victory here, you needed the right type of people in the right lane to clear the plattforms. Maybe you mistake the missing interest of the hardcore people with the missing interest of people in general? Marionette was a server, not a multiserver event.

 

And regarding 3headed wurm, there is no gear check and no turning you away when the event has started which is a significant improvement from the instanced hard content concept, you have to join Ts to find out which map is done by a given organization. I am sorry for anyone that is not human enough to allow a certain amount of loitering around to earn some morsels but in all honesty it still costs them nothing today and the early concept of GW2 allowed people to do so without causing events to fail.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the Marionette meta being decently difficult in Open World, mostly because it required some detailed coordination and not just being a zergfest. I hope they bring it back in some way or form.

>

> The problem with Open World Bosses generally is that much of the difficulty disappears with large number of player and inconsequential death (players can WP and keep throwing their bodies in a short amount of time).

 

I don't think it's nostalgia so much as the Marionette being temporary so relatively few people got really familiar with it.

 

When the Vinewrath fight was first added to Silverwastes a lot of people praised it for being similar to the Marionette and also a hard open-world event. All 3 lanes had to work together and everyone had to know the mechanics and get their part right to be able to succeed.

 

I started doing it about 2 weeks later and my first ever attempt was a perfect run - no carriers lost and all bosses killed on the first attempt. Everyone was in map chat talking about how amazing that was, how they didn't think it was possible, it's amazing that they managed to get a full map of skilled, experienced players (I decided not to say I'd never done it before) etc.

 

A few weeks later that had become standard, it was unusual for a carrier to be killed or a boss to fail and usually only happened if the map wasn't full. Now people say you don't even need a full map for a perfect run. These days people don't even seem to think about it. Although that can lead to issues when lots of new people come along because no one thinks to explain what to do. But even then it is just a matter of someone explaining it and the run itself usually goes fine.

 

I suspect if the Marionette had stuck around longer it would have been the same.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> > Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the Marionette meta being decently difficult in Open World, mostly because it required some detailed coordination and not just being a zergfest. I hope they bring it back in some way or form.

> >

> > The problem with Open World Bosses generally is that much of the difficulty disappears with large number of player and inconsequential death (players can WP and keep throwing their bodies in a short amount of time).

>

> I don't think it's nostalgia so much as the Marionette being temporary so relatively few people got really familiar with it.

>

> When the Vinewrath fight was first added to Silverwastes a lot of people praised it for being similar to the Marionette and also a hard open-world event. All 3 lanes had to work together and everyone had to know the mechanics and get their part right to be able to succeed.

>

> I started doing it about 2 weeks later and my first ever attempt was a perfect run - no carriers lost and all bosses killed on the first attempt. Everyone was in map chat talking about how amazing that was, how they didn't think it was possible, it's amazing that they managed to get a full map of skilled, experienced players (I decided not to say I'd never done it before) etc.

>

> A few weeks later that had become standard, it was unusual for a carrier to be killed or a boss to fail and usually only happened if the map wasn't full. Now people say you don't even need a full map for a perfect run. These days people don't even seem to think about it. Although that can lead to issues when lots of new people come along because no one thinks to explain what to do. But even then it is just a matter of someone explaining it and the run itself usually goes fine.

>

> I suspect if the Marionette had stuck around longer it would have been the same.

 

The problem is in most cases things are hard when you don't know what're you're getting into and it's new.

After getting used to it, it's not anymore.

Like Breath of the Wild started off hard/challenging and in the end became super easy to know what to do even if you did a new playthrough.

 

In GW2 case, you would say certain maps while leveling up was hard/challenging in certain areas... by the time you're using your 4th or 5th character (or even 2nd) even if it's a different class you would usually find the areas a bit easier the last time you went through. Or how to get through a jumping puzzle or to get to a vista.

I got to GW2 uber late and used to think Basin needed some high coordination to beat it. Now I know you just need people that just know what to do (or at least shown) and know when to kill things which you can easily see the progress of on the side of the screen without anyone on the other sides telling you.

[Torolan.5816]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > > @"Dashiva.6149" said:

> > > Maybe it is nostalgia, but I remember the Marionette meta being decently difficult in Open World, mostly because it required some detailed coordination and not just being a zergfest. I hope they bring it back in some way or form.

> > >

> > > The problem with Open World Bosses generally is that much of the difficulty disappears with large number of player and inconsequential death (players can WP and keep throwing their bodies in a short amount of time).

> >

> > I don't think it's nostalgia so much as the Marionette being temporary so relatively few people got really familiar with it.

> >

> > When the Vinewrath fight was first added to Silverwastes a lot of people praised it for being similar to the Marionette and also a hard open-world event. All 3 lanes had to work together and everyone had to know the mechanics and get their part right to be able to succeed.

> >

> > I started doing it about 2 weeks later and my first ever attempt was a perfect run - no carriers lost and all bosses killed on the first attempt. Everyone was in map chat talking about how amazing that was, how they didn't think it was possible, it's amazing that they managed to get a full map of skilled, experienced players (I decided not to say I'd never done it before) etc.

> >

> > A few weeks later that had become standard, it was unusual for a carrier to be killed or a boss to fail and usually only happened if the map wasn't full. Now people say you don't even need a full map for a perfect run. These days people don't even seem to think about it. Although that can lead to issues when lots of new people come along because no one thinks to explain what to do. But even then it is just a matter of someone explaining it and the run itself usually goes fine.

> >

> > I suspect if the Marionette had stuck around longer it would have been the same.

>

> The problem is in most cases things are hard when you don't know what're you're getting into and it's new.

> After getting used to it, it's not anymore.

> Like Breath of the Wild started off hard/challenging and in the end became super easy to know what to do even if you did a new playthrough.

>

> In GW2 case, you would say certain maps while leveling up was hard/challenging in certain areas... by the time you're using your 4th or 5th character (or even 2nd) even if it's a different class you would usually find the areas a bit easier the last time you went through. Or how to get through a jumping puzzle or to get to a vista.

> I got to GW2 uber late and used to think Basin needed some high coordination to beat it. Now I know you just need people that just know what to do (or at least shown) and know when to kill things which you can easily see the progress of on the side of the screen without anyone on the other sides telling you.

 

Leveling in GW2 was always easy. I have never played a game that is so forgiving in the lower levels after you master how to dodge out of the feeble AoE mobs attack you with. Leveling with ranger and necro is more than easy, the most "challenging" toon to level was the mesmer for me. You think it is more easy because the login rewards makes it indeed more speedy to level.

 

The tolerance of failure is simply higher and the time for preparation is much lower in the open world than in instanced content, and that is something some people can´t stomach for various reasons. For me it boils down to the wuestion if you are content with being the captain of a regular army unit or if you have to be the special OPs corporal in an elite unit of the same army.

[Davin Miler.2810]

Well this blew up quickly.

I want to clarify some stuff:

I'm not saying that we should make the game harder overall. That'd be stupid as you'd scare away casual players. What I mean to say is that it'd be great if we got something like the old Tequatl. That took coordination, skill and a lot of people to beat. In addition to that it also wasn't required. If you just wanted to play casually, you could. What I'm saying is that I would like to see more Boss events with interesting attack patterns and mechanics you need to learn to be able to beat it. Give us something we can really chew on, but don't make it required to do.

[Lambent.6375]

When was teq scaled down?

The only teq change I remember since the revamp is when they changed his health pool, and allowed him to be crit.

[Davin Miler.2810]

> @"Lambent.6375" said:

> When was teq scaled down?

> The only teq change I remember since the revamp is when they changed his health pool, and allowed him to be crit.

 

It was changed a long long time ago

 

Edit: September 17th 2013 to be exact